A Simple Transaction I

Lealope · Apr 25, 2023

I'd prefer to just go for a Shattering Blow. We didn't choose the option that made diplomacy possible and the fundamental conflict of ideals is too strong for it to be likely that 3 Stages of Tyrant Mitigation would offer sufficient leeway. It seems more likely that our victory will be found through battle here, and the attempt might make Hunger critically vulnerable.

Box Lunch · Apr 25, 2023

Hunger's word is literally Law. He does not break it, and in fact cannot. The Tyrant's Doom prevents him from doing so.

We make a deal. A simple transaction, if you will. Close the Fist, achieve power sufficient to grant specialized mitigation towards the Tyrant's Doom. The Maiden is mighty enough, and grace flexible enough. She will be sacrificing during the fusion from our reserves, so it's innately trustworthy.

This mitigation would be sculpted to reflect the nature of Grace. In short: a specific, unreasonable amount of respect becomes due those who exemplify a certain creed or philosophy. In this case, the Maiden's own. It's hardly objectionable, so why not? In this way Hunger's Realm will intuitively reflect the new doctrine. His Doom, otherwise still inviolate, will compel him to do no less.

This is the ultimate goal of a Cursebearer. It is innately appealing to Hunger, because it brings him closer to his vengeance and to fulfilling his promise to the Accursed. It is also innately beneficial to the Maiden, because her powers are incredible, but finite. She is resolved to undertake a Kamikaze charge, but by definition would prefer not to. There is even, upon multiple re-reads, a statement that she expects Tyranny to result regardless of victor, as either party will become a singularity. Findross, rank, genius, etc. The result is the same.

For her, the ideal result would be multiple superpowers perennially able to contest one-another. Only the Tyrant's Doom makes reasoned conflict impossible, but it is not undefeatable. We didn't have the Sliver of Evening last time we tried diplomacy. And if nothing else, Hunger still owes Gisena that favor.

Shard · Apr 26, 2023

Other strategies:

1) Use Silver of Evening on Tyrant, use the mitigation to tell Gisena to figure something up, actually listen to her advise.
2) Use Silver of Evening to defeat the Maiden's Beauty (It's a perfect effect).
3) Somehow use Blood Halo + Sophont Halo to utterly deny the Maiden access to Findross. Sophont Halo already denies Findross and Grace usage, and Blood Halo empowers it by 50%, 'interpreted generously'.
a) The Space Domain could be used to extend Gisena's 'vicinity' to an infinite range.

Zampano · Apr 26, 2023

I'm hesitant about the Sophont Halo going toe-to-toe against the Maiden's Grace. The calvinball rules of the ISH means that findross control can be wrested back from Gisena (possibly at a persistent cost of findross output).

My thinking has been fixated on these details from the Maiden's attack:

In any direct contest, it was unquestionable that her Grace would evade the grasp of his Law - yet such was his dominion over Space that, within his proscribed territory, the very concept of evasion lost coherence. An effect she could counter by sheer weight of findross, but only if she entered the territory in question.

It was, of course, impossible to breach such a realm by conventional means, or even to conceive of its relative location. To her, such minute forbiddings were little better than tinsel, yet it would still be an exertion of her stamina - unthinkably vast, but finite - to cut through, and what was to stop him from immediately raising another?

Only her direct attentions.

Yielding an inch in their contest over reality, she redirected the output to strategically sever the chord of communication between them, removing rhetoric as a vector of attack while retaining her ability to comprehend her foe.

This was the gulf between them: Lord Hunger had to mutilate his own eyes merely to hold off her memetic valence, while she could simply filter his. But with each such expression of material advantage, each stream of findross reified from potential to form, the magnitude of that vantage diminished.

Her opponent pursued relentlessly, opening with a cross-cleave that also obliterated the Astral entirely, causing the uppermost textures to pancake down and shake the universe to its fundaments. Consequently the timing of her evasions was imperfect; her left shoulder was caught and reduced to a ragged mess, bleeding so profoundly even she couldn't afford to staunch it.

And then also note:

Where would such an army be located? She cast her mind out, all-revealing Daylight piercing even the murkiest shroud of Nullity - ah. The Voyaging Realm. A kingdom called Nilfel, part of the Arcanist's domain.

1. The Maiden's advantage is diminished with each vector of attack that she is forced to defend against. The vectors that she is currently defending include: Conceptual evasion suppression, Rhetoric, bad fashion choices, navigation to the Human Sphere

2. The vulnerability of Grace to the effects of distorted Space has not been perfectly mitigated: her ability to evade is further reduced when Hunger's attacks cause damage to the Astral and other supervening realms. This damage is a direct consequence of Hunger's offensive output with the Forebear's Blade.

3. The Maiden's influence spreads throughout the universe, easily scrying the location of Nilfel through the protections of Nullity and whatever else Gisena prepared.

Proposed tactics:

A. Send Archmage Clones to invade the Realm of Daylight and cause chaos, defining a sneak attack on the Maiden's power-base as a "scheme" for the purposes of Blood Halo's conceptual attack effect.

B1. Use Archmage Clones to set up fortifications between the Maiden and the Voyaging Realm, sundering spacetime itself if necessary.
B2. Use Archmage Clones to send space-disrupting attacks towards the Maiden during CQC exchanges.
B3. Use Archmage Clones as suicide-bombers to deliver prepared Artifice attacks like the Clarion Grenade from Gisena's early crafting menu
Note: B1-B3 Might be dangerous if damage to clones propagates to Hunger Prime.

C1. "Yield an inch" in the esoteric battle of dominions to send a variety of persistent status-effects at the Maiden which have to be mitigated with her limited supply of findross per unit-time.
Note: This risks a more devastating reveal of the Maiden's other contingencies like whatever she built with Archsmith's Hammer.

Box Lunch · Apr 26, 2023

It's weird. I know the words written you wrote were "send a variety of persistent status-effects at the Maiden," but all I see when I look at them is "make her regret having X-ray vision."

Simon_Jester · Apr 26, 2023

Can someone explain how any of these ideas connect to something subtly hinted at that we haven't already thought of? Because that was the hint, right?

ilbgar123 · Apr 26, 2023

Simon_Jester said:
Can someone explain how any of these ideas connect to something subtly hinted at that we haven't already thought of? Because that was the hint, right?

Something in the Threadmarks of the last 100 pages, yes. R mentioned in the Discord that somebody had thought of it already, but that it hadn't been brought up much.

Magical_Duck · Apr 26, 2023

"Quac Quack Quack Qua-quack?"

HoratioVonBecker · Apr 27, 2023

ilbgar123 said:
Something in the Threadmarks of the last 100 pages, yes. R mentioned in the Discord that somebody had thought of it already, but that it hadn't been brought up much.

Honestly that feels unfair. If someone in-thread came up with it, and Hunger is both a massively superhuman tactician and has more in-universe knowledge than we do, why is 'the good tactic must be widely acknowledged' a further requirement for its' implementation?

Shard · Apr 27, 2023

HoratioVonBecker said:
Honestly that feels unfair. If someone in-thread came up with it, and Hunger is both a massively superhuman tactician and has more in-universe knowledge than we do, why is 'the good tactic must be widely acknowledged' a further requirement for its' implementation?

We could just RNG out tactics until we hit on the correct one by accident.

Zampano · Apr 27, 2023

Shard said:
We could just RNG out tactics until we hit on the correct one by accident.

GPT 4 has ISH 4 at best. Worthless in a competition between Hunger and the Maiden.

I really like your Silver of Evening negotiation idea, btw.

HoratioVonBecker said:
Honestly that feels unfair. If someone in-thread came up with it, and Hunger is both a massively superhuman tactician and has more in-universe knowledge than we do, why is 'the good tactic must be widely acknowledged' a further requirement for its' implementation?

I think that it is more a matter of certainty & argumentation: If the tactic is mentioned explicitly then Hunger could think of it. But R's exact phrasing was:

Okay, I've re-read a lot of the discussion in the last one hundred pages
the tactic has 'kind of' been mentioned at least once
I don't think it's been substantially supported to the point where Hunger would naturally consider it, however
Hmm
Maybe I can set an Arete total for Hunger to think of the tactic

So someone has suggested something that could be generously interpreted as being in the same ballpark. Theoretically one of us could go through all 100 pages and enumerate every tactic that has been suggested, and then we could iterate on that list to try and reverse-engineer the approach R has in mind. But I don't have that kind of time so it won't be me. ~~Probably.~~

I do have an idea for a fanfic so maybe I can contribute a little bit of Arete in case R allows us to mine a solution via fanworks.

Shard · Apr 27, 2023

I do think that in general, a tactic would need to solve (at least some of) these issues, or render them irrelevant:

1) The Maiden is winning in her fight against Hunger.
2) The Maiden is winning in her contest of Dominions against Hunger.
3) The Maiden has a ridiculous array of Archsmith Hammer shenanigans that she's prepped.
4) The Maiden's final recourse, which she doesn't want to use.

We know that it also 'improves Hunger's epilogue outcomes', if we want to narrow it's properties down further.

Another vector we can attempt is trying something along this route:

Rihaku said:
And yet, some fraction of this realm did not leap implicitly into her service, but interdicted her: a territory chained by its bedrock axioms to a lord that presumed himself above even the Foremost. Upon his throne of midnight, the Imprisoner reigned still, embryonic spark that threatened ignition into the Forebear of Dynasties once more. How strange it seemed, to one of her matchless span, finally to face the enemy who she'd labored against for so long. A veritable eternity had been spent in the mustering; millenia beyond number passing with eyeblink quickness, and yet it had seemed at times that she would merely be preparing for ever.

In her heart of hearts, she was tired, and yet could not help but surge with vigor at the contest come at last. Like first break of dawn after a wholly-sleepless night, a second wind came over her: senses bleary but radically sharper, every nerve tuned to crackling readiness.

Rihaku said:
Behind her veil, she frowned minutely. Her power could not reach directly into the Human Sphere. It was not an unexpected outcome, yet she had hoped that the Praehihr would avoid this path, if only to expedite matters for them both.

Rihaku said:
She had anticipated this. It was one scenario of countless she'd simulated, and yet every victory along this path carried some measure of risk. The Praehihr had embraced imprisonment entirely; sacrificing all influence outside his fortress to become nigh unassailable from without. The path of Grace alone would not suffice. There would be no triumph by indirect means here, no usurper consigned to irretrievable oblivion by sheer cleverness alone. He would be undone from within his sanctum, or not at all.

So be it. She had hoped for a brisk execution, but would not shirk a proper war. It would only delay the hour of her victory in the end.

Rihaku said:
Instead she witnessed her destroying light pooling harmlessly in the palm of a red-haired child, the Chosen of the Voyaging Realm who with laughable hubris presumed to defy her. Empowered by the fury of his patron he was not inconceivably below her, and certainly impervious to her powers of light and heat; but that did not render him a serious obstacle to her like. She did not hesitate for a moment.

The Maiden is tired (she is incapable of True Rest owing to us giving her the Realm of Daylight option) and wants to get this damn battle over. Her (metaphorical) questbase has been mining arete until their writing and artmaking capabilities have been spent unto they are so much dust. They have strategized endlessly forever. At this point they're at 'DGAF, Just Shoot Him' levels of weariness where they'll take any win offered to them.

By which I mean, Hunger could deliberately blunder. Show a true weakness for the Maiden to exploit, and then execute her in that moment. If we do this, the Maiden will almost certainly go full Shattering Blow the moment we show an opening. We might even then immediately Silver of Evening her ultimate self-sacrifice attack.

Or in different words - Apply Master Baiter, let the Mondo Bait become relevant again once more. Fish, even if it cannot be fished. Bait, even if it cannot be baitied.

ilbgar123 · Apr 27, 2023

So, I'll be honest, I have no goddamn clue about what the tactic that's been mentioned but hasn't been acknowledged much is. Instead, I'll give an idea I had for a Wicked 40K setting. Initially, the setting seems outwardly grimderp. Manual slave labor loading macrocannons, Emps planned the Horus Heresy, and stuff like that. Then, you encounter a Minor Chaos God embodying all of Chaos' positive traits. This is baffling, because Eilrahc seems genuinely benevolent, despite being a Chaos anything in a Wicked version of 40K. Then the Emperor dies and the Empyreal Tyrant rises, with Vashtorr using the chaos, pun intended, to make his own play and become the Engine of Extinction, and she gets stronger, going from 5%(Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Malice) of a Chaos God's strength, to 7%, and gaining abilities tied to the Tyrant and Engine, respectively something akin to my Supportstream Element and a general innovation buff. Sure, things are bad, but if she gets stronger with each Chaos God, then things shouldn't be too bad, right? Then Bel'a'kor and Drach'nyen'antwyr rise as Chaos Gods, pushing her to 9%, and granting her more synergies. Atlos rises, lord of those who would hang onto power at any cost, patron of both the despot and the rebel who rises and becomes a despot himself, bearing similarities to both the Tyrant and Engine, but subtly different. Here you begin to grow suspicious, even with Eilrahc having obtained enough bits of personality to become a full person. More and more Chaos Gods rise, including those of Law, as the Tyrant opened the door as Chaos God of Order. A grand total of 38 have arisen at this point, and you're honestly wondering if Procession counts how horrible the world is on arrival or by the time you die, and stay your hand mostly because you suspect it's like Indenture.

Eilrahc has been a constant ally and very frequent companion, and represents the other reason you haven't elected to simply give up and try again with the next world of your Procession. You'd go so far as to call her a friend. However, the Word Bearers and Lorgar have arrived... to venerate her. You see, the ultimate purpose of this reality, according to them, is for the Warp to reflect, magnify, and refine various concepts. The first is done throughout the Warp, the second by the Chaos Gods, and the last... by Eilrahc. Lorgar even notes that it was, ironically, an Old Terran religion, that he only learned much of after convincing his father to allow Lorgar to study his old records in return for the Word Bearers' expertise on spreading the faith to bring the Tyrant's word to xenos races, that brought it to his attention. Eilrahc's True Name was the same as Lucifer's Daughter, Engamelrahc. Fitting for the Daughter of the Primordial Creator, the Warp.

Each Chaos God adds a new concept to the mixture Eilrahc represents, just as each Chaos God further destabilizes reality. Eilrahc will rise as a new singularity to create a new, brighter universe. Of course, the current reality will dissolve, like an egg being cracked open from the inside, but considering the straits the universe is in, is that really a bad thing? Lorgar even offers to let you help with the following Chaos Gods. With so many already on the table, more are going to be on the way no matter what, and when they hit 100 and Eilrahc hits the might of a full Chaos God existing in the Materium despite the usual issues with that, reality will dissolve no matter what you do. It says a lot that, despite Eilrahc being distraught over the news that she was the nascent end of this reality and all she knew, something she understood intuitively as the truth now that it had been spelled out, you seriously considered if Lorgar might have a point, even if you couldn't be sure Eilrahc would actually still exist to make that brighter universe Lorgar promised.

Aabcehmu · Apr 27, 2023

Shard said:
I do think that in general, a tactic would need to solve (at least some of) these issues, or render them irrelevant:

1) The Maiden is winning in her fight against Hunger.
2) The Maiden is winning in her contest of Dominions against Hunger.
3) The Maiden has a ridiculous array of Archsmith Hammer shenanigans that she's prepped.
4) The Maiden's final recourse, which she doesn't want to use.

We know that it also 'improves Hunger's epilogue outcomes', if we want to narrow it's properties down further.

Another vector we can attempt is trying something along this route:

The Maiden is tired (she is incapable of True Rest owing to us giving her the Realm of Daylight option) and wants to get this damn battle over. Her (metaphorical) questbase has been mining arete until their writing and artmaking capabilities have been spent unto they are so much dust. They have strategized endlessly forever. At this point they're at 'DGAF, Just Shoot Him' levels of weariness where they'll take any win offered to them.

By which I mean, Hunger could deliberately blunder. Show a true weakness for the Maiden to exploit, and then execute her in that moment. If we do this, the Maiden will almost certainly go full Shattering Blow the moment we show an opening. We might even then immediately Silver of Evening her ultimate self-sacrifice attack.

Or in different words - Apply Master Baiter, let the Mondo Bait become relevant again once more. Fish, even if it cannot be fished. Bait, even if it cannot be baitied.

I'm noting that Rihaku has stated on discord that 'if you give the Maiden an inch, she'll take a mile' due to how completely she's dominating the Contest of Dominions. This might be partially handled by Perfect Merger (which IIRC is the current front-runner).

Box Lunch · Apr 27, 2023

Zampano said:
So someone has suggested something that could be generously interpreted as being in the same ballpark. Theoretically one of us could go through all 100 pages and enumerate every tactic that has been suggested, and then we could iterate on that list to try and reverse-engineer the approach R has in mind. But I don't have that kind of time so it won't be me. ~~Probably.~~

It's not as bad as it looks. About half of that is devoted to CYOAs for Arete mining.

Shard · Apr 27, 2023

Box Lunch said:
It's not as bad as it looks. About half of that is devoted to CYOAs for Arete mining.

Maybe the tactic is to give Hunger a way to generate infinite Arete himself, then use that Arete to turborush to victory.

Perhaps Hunger should make CYOAs?

qwolfs · Apr 30, 2023

I wonder if there are some Realm of Evening shenanigans to make use of here.

The Maiden used the realm of Day, iirc, and it cost her the ability to rest. If Hunger provides her access to the Realm of Evening it might her allow to sleep inside. If this were combined with some kind of acceptable compromise on Hungers approach to rule / influence over the physical realm there may be a solid chance at a truce.

Also, the Maiden seems a solid substitute for Adorie, if she rests within the Tower.

From what I understands of the Maidens politics she opposes Hunger because his Rank and Domains remove even the possibility of dissent from those within it's range. It may be possible to create a Law/Contract that removes this imposition from citizens in return for accepting a basic social contract. If they wish to leave they would be allowed to enter Aobaru's territory or exit the casual reach of Hungers abilities, there they could then cancel the contract.

This should resolve both Hungers reasonable security concerns and the Maidens reasonable personal interest in ensuring free will for the people under Hunger's rule.

Pacifist - Download: 100 Ordinal Credits.
5 Cerulean Obols.
0 Radiant Electrum.
—
[2] - Hegemon: [+2 Cerulean Obols]
—
[ ] A Comparable Realm - The Manifest Realm
—
[ ] Gamble -
First Gamble: Receive [+1 Radiant Electrum] in addition to the listed reward.
Second Gamble: All Drawbacks are 20% less severe. You don't receive the listed reward.
[ ] 8: A Maw - [+3 Cerulean Obols]
[ ] 6: Forbidding - [+Null Ordinal Coins]
—
[ ] A Saga. [+1 Radiant Electrum]
—
Melodious / Mask
[ ] I: Gourmet [2 Ordinal Coins] -

Profess / Preference
[ ] I: Profoundly Tasteful [6 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] II: Preference Ranking [14 Ordinal Coins] -

Ally / Alternate
[ ] I: Attribution Requested [5 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] II: Ally [20 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] III: Armada [70 Ordinal Coins] -

Dream / Double
[ ] I: Twice [3 Ordinal Coins] -
—
Cerulean Obols
[ ] Top Twenty [8 Cerulean Obols] -
—
Radiant Electrum
[ ] The Pocketwatch [2 Radiant Electrum] -

Debit: 100/ 10 / 2
Credit: 120 / 08 / 2
Net: 000 / 0 / 0

Strategy:
Growth and violence are tremendously difficult, but you can build for diplomacy and abuse the Pocketwatch to optimize.
9 to 5 - Download: 100 Ordinal Credits.
5 Cerulean Obols.
0 Radiant Electrum.

—
[2] - Hegemon: [+2 Cerulean Obols]
—
[ ] A Modest Realm -
—
[ ] Gamble -
First Gamble: Receive [+1 Radiant Electrum] in addition to the listed reward.
[ ] 3: Incursion - [+2 Cerulean Obols]
—
Melodious / Mask
[ ] I: Gourmet [2 Ordinal Coins] -

Profess / Preference
[ ] I: Profoundly Tasteful [6 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] II: Preference Ranking [14 Ordinal Coins] -

Ally / Alternate
[ ] I: Attribution Requested [5 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] II: Ally [20 Ordinal Coins] -

Dream / Double
[ ] I: Twice [3 Ordinal Coins] -
—
Cerulean Obols
[ ] Worldly Might [5 Cerulean Obols] -
—
Radiant Electrum
[ ] Shattering [1 Radiant Electrum] - Ally

Debit: 050/ 05 / 1
Credit: 050 / 05 / 1
Net: 000 / 0 / 0

Strategy:
Empower your Ally, improve their loyalty, or expand the range of acceptable targets. If needed to survive you will have some access to supernatural abilities.

ilbgar123 · Apr 30, 2023

qwolfs said:
I wonder if there are some Realm of Evening shenanigans to make use of here.

The Maiden used the realm of Day, iirc, and it cost her the ability to rest. If Hunger provides her access to the Realm of Evening it might her allow to sleep inside. If this were combined with some kind of acceptable compromise on Hungers approach to rule / influence over the physical realm there may be a solid chance at a truce.

Also, the Maiden seems a solid substitute for Adorie, if she rests within the Tower.

From what I understands of the Maidens politics she opposes Hunger because his Rank and Domains remove even the possibility of dissent from those within it's range. It may be possible to create a Law/Contract that removes this imposition from citizens in return for accepting a basic social contract. If they wish to leave they would be allowed to enter Aobaru's territory or exit the casual reach of Hungers abilities, there they could then cancel the contract.

This should resolve both Hungers reasonable security concerns and the Maidens reasonable personal interest in ensuring free will for the people under Hunger's rule.

Can't they already just live in the Voyaging Realm under Aobaru? Caethlynn mentioned it as a flaw in her justifications.

qwolfs · Apr 30, 2023

ilbgar123 said:
Can't they already just live in the Voyaging Realm under Aobaru? Caethlynn mentioned it as a flaw in her justifications.

Rihaku said:
The Maiden narrowed her eyes, resolve hardening in the face of such limitless strength. This man was the embodiment of all she stood against, the accession of a singular will above all others, the asphyxiation of greatness - destiny - volition - under the lowered boom of law. He would make all of the world a prison, and see nothing wrong in the doing, so long as he remained master of the cage.

Did it matter that his intentions might be just?

What mattered justice, to a people who had no ability to choose injustice?

She would see his end, one way or another. Victory was a certainty; her survival had never been.

Thus always to tyrants.

It isn't about where they live, it's about them having the ability to choose.

Double - Download: 100 Ordinal Credits.
5 Cerulean Obols.
0 Radiant Electrum.

—
[1] - Do As Thou Wilt:
—
[ ] A Comparable Realm -
—
[ ] Gamble -
First Gamble: Receive [+1 Radiant Electrum] in addition to the listed reward.
Second Gamble: All Drawbacks are 20% less severe. You don't receive the listed reward.
[ ] 4: Impelled - [+50 Ordinal Coins]
[ ] 6: Forbidding - [+Null Ordinal Coins]
—
Ally / Alternate
[ ] I: Attribution Requested [5 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] II: Ally [20 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] III: Armada [70 Ordinal Coins] -

Dream / Double
[ ] I: Twice [3 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] II: Multithreading [28 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] III: Dual Life [23 Ordinal Coins] -
—
Cerulean Obols
[ ] Worldly Might [5 Cerulean Obols] -
—
Radiant Electrum
[ ] First Sword [1 Radiant Electrum] -

Debit: 150/ 06 / 1
Credit: 149 / 05 / 1
Net: 001 / 0 / 0

Strategy:
You are tremendously difficult to kill, and have significant potential. This is power and potential is doubled for your Armada, to whom your Gambles apply much less.

ilbgar123 · Apr 30, 2023

qwolfs said:
It isn't about where they live, it's about them having the ability to choose.

I was referring to this bit of Full Circle.

Rihaku said:
This was bread and circuses on an unprecedented scale; the challenges and conflicts inherent to rule simply paved over by superhuman might. Any wrinkles that did arise were smoothed over by the incomprehensible machinations of the Princess-Regent before they could ever manifest in the form of unrest, and her individual contributions alone had advanced human science by five millennia or more. Now was a Sphere unrecognizable to a resident of even ten years past, whose few remaining resource constraints rapidly dwindled into irrelevance in the face of Allrian hypertechnology. And for those who preferred an even lighter yoke, the territories of Grand Duke Aobaru in the Voyaging Realm professed boundless adventure and near-absolute freedom, albeit at a slightly noticeable cost in safety.

Which suggests people can just live in the Voyaging Realm if they don't care for Hunger managing so much of their lives.

qwolfs · May 1, 2023

ilbgar123 said:
Which suggests people can just live in the Voyaging Realm if they don't care for Hunger managing so much of their lives.

She clearly doesn't believe this to be sufficient, perhaps because his Rank covers them regardless. Rank and similar indiscriminate control effects seem to bother her very deeply -- maybe even make her jealous, given how she responded to Hunger when he said his rank was less cruel than her beauty. Finding a method for her to control her beauty may also be part of a bargain.

Lowered Expectations - Download: 100 Ordinal Credits.
5 Cerulean Obols.
0 Radiant Electrum.

—
[3] - Shards of Infinity: [+4 Cerulean Obols]
—
[ ] A Modest Realm -
—
[ ] Gamble -
First Gamble: Receive [+1 Radiant Electrum] in addition to the listed reward.
[ ] 3: Incursion - [+2 Cerulean Obols]
[ ] 4: Impelled - [+Null Cerulean Obols]
—
Profess / Preference
[ ] I: Profoundly Tasteful [6 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] II: Preference Ranking [14 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] III: All's Fair [35 Ordinal Coins] -
—
Cerulean Obols
[ ] Worldly Might [5 Cerulean Obols] -
—
Radiant Electrum
[ ] First Sword [1 Radiant Electrum] -

Debit: 050/ 06 / 1
Credit: 057 / 05 / 1
Net: 002 / 0 / 0

Strategy:
You'll pretty much always be threatened, and the 20% mitigation makes both gambles significantly more manageable. Still, both drawbacks kind of suck.

ilbgar123 · May 1, 2023

qwolfs said:
She clearly doesn't believe this to be sufficient, perhaps because his Rank covers them regardless. Rank and similar indiscriminate control effects seem to bother her very deeply -- maybe even make her jealous, given how she responded to Hunger when he said his rank was less cruel than her beauty. Finding a method for her to control her beauty may also be part of a bargain.

Wouldn't a Mind or Spirit effect to immunize people(so, wait about 6 more months for Hunger's current pair to run their course and then switch to Mind and Spirit) work for that, assuming just using the full year's Law post-Blood Halo doesn't? Does she know about Fault-Defeating, or does she just think it's Progression? Like, she knows the generalities of Archmage, since that's the basis of their reality control duel.

firefrog600 · May 5, 2023

so is this still not finished offhand? Also looking at the older cultivation setting quest did that finish or 'finish' as in petered out and got an ending.

OctarineShrike · May 5, 2023

firefrog600 said:
so is this still not finished offhand? Also looking at the older cultivation setting quest did that finish or 'finish' as in petered out and got an ending.

The cultivation setting quest finished/has an ending.

Suizhen is emperor, with Nameless as the behind the scenes guy partying and brute forcing utopia through the captive tormented fates. Nameless also attains immortal awakening, which touches a power identical to the sign of truth.

firefrog600 · May 5, 2023

OctarineShrike said:
The cultivation setting quest finished/has an ending.

Suizhen is emperor, with Nameless as the behind the scenes guy partying and brute forcing utopia through the captive tormented fates. Nameless also attains immortal awakening, which touches a power identical to the sign of truth.

and this quest?

A Simple Transaction I

Not yet invincible

One and Many

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈

The One Who Quacks

Imperfectly Aligned

One and Many

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈

One and Many

Confusion as a Natural State of Being

One and Many

Avatar of Mandos