IIRC, it was turned into a trap by Augustine's Sorcery, which only worked because it would have integrated into and upgraded the Cloak somehow, but would have carried her changes along with it.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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Occam's Razor: she became involved shortly (>1 year) after we defeated Dien and the Shogun by way of the Archmage. Perhaps the act of usurpation was that? If she was not originally lady of daylight, but of day and night, then we just stole half her job title from her.
Worse. She'll find a way.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
There will presumably be an option somewhere to find that out if it's a thing, mixed with several other options for us to argue about.
- Location
- Pindorama
No, you misunderstand, we did get infinite Protection. If we had merely gotten +1000 Protection, Procyon's blow would have pulverized us, instead of the Armor buckling but still resisting like it did. We know this is the case because Rank 10 attacks are categorically incapable of destroying the universe since the range only extends to solar system-level; it's just that inside that range they can overwhelm any amount of physical force. Infinite Protection is still just ISH 1.99 and so not very relevant except as a baseline in which we can layer more defensive advancements and synergies, such as with Imperishable Night; in that sense it's still good.
Or what created her, that's always popular too.
Seeing as she's basically a nu-Yozi, I'm assuming it was pre-Lathe. Perhaps she was not yet Foremost at the time, but that origin would be less relevant. So when did the Foremost come about? We can only speculate, I know: but while I presently favor the idea that it was post-Paradise Nameless who created the Foremost, there is a chance that she was actually a subject of the Forebear, and not one of his adversaries. It's been made quite clear that his Companions were considered worthy to walk alongside him - implying they had the power, personally, to do so. This means that inter-cosmological action was at the very least only taxing for them, or that they held a means to ensure he received their aid regardless of how far from home our Bear ended up.
Like, say, by using their Title to mantle a local of appropriate potential. Something we have multiple examples of in Aobaru and Ceathlynn. Dien would likely have done the same had an Orc descendant still existed in the Human Sphere. We hear of normal humans re-sleeving themselves extensively in Ever Brighter, which is functionally similar because it demonstrates the triviality of consciousness transference and alteration without loss of fidelity. It's my opinion that, had the Maiden not intervened just now, this would have been what Letrizia and Aobaru did in the very instant that followed.
- Location
- Italy
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'd like to repeat something that was said by someone on this thread, but I have no idea who because I won't bother with looking for it: Blood Halo is symbolically appropriate, and thus, narratively appropriate. Hunger's name is Hunger becasue of his Ring - not because of him being the Forebear, not because he's the Ruler of the Human Sphere, but because he always had the Ring Crimson and 'created' his new identity around it. That's something to keep in mind. I'm sure Fate likes roundabouts that close themselves nicely.
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Hunger also require 25 Arete to get the Signs which Augustine just knew. Only restrictions on Praxis is that Accursed needs to allow you higher levels of it, but there is little stopping Hunger for teaching it to the others - besides their aptitude for it, of course. I believe in Aobaru tho.
Accelerated temporal realms are not time magic per se, although we do have access to time travel, as we saw Letrizia do it in this very update. However, time travel is irrelevant against Maiden level foes, only the sidereal time matters.
And it doesn't work for other plans because they need to actually fight Maiden while IN can spend sidereal days setting these things up.
There is no reason to assume that Gisena is not already running full speed temporal acceleration. There is a fundamental limit to what you can do with finite or infinite amount of time.
In any case, the reason why these plans are useful is because we are not planning on getting Maiden level allies, but only have them develop specific abilities that would make them a good CtF fodder. Creating Maiden tier foe is impossible - creating guys with abilities that would be of use when elevated to our powerlevel via CtF is doable.
- Location
- Italy
mh... I think we were once told that progression+ also wouldn't apply to the 25 arete options, but mostly to the "basic" ones.
I am pretty sure the Praxis is completely unaffected by it, being completely "fair" and effort dependant instead of talent.
- Location
- Italy
I think the only powers ever mentioned to be able to improve praxis progress were the initial remittances, like intensify.
Progression+ applies to basically everything.
Praxis can specifically be upgraded by TSH, so buffing it is evidently doable.
Does any have original quote about Praxis and Progression?
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
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- He/Him
I think trying to turn Findross against the Maiden would work approximately as well as trying to turn Ruin against the Forebear or Praxis against the Accursed. Findross seems to be fundamentally Her Thing. I would expect that if someone could somehow take it away from her then they'd have to already be at a level of relative power where they could casually curbstomp her anyway and they're just styling on her now. This is manifestly not the scenario we are in with her.
So... infinite Protection is not necessarily infinite protection. That's even more confusing.
Maybe there were more quotes in the quest, but I only remember the ones from Discord rn:
R' said:
Edit: Though I think he also mentioned that Progression doesn't really make the Praxis easier, just that you greater rewards for the same steps.
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I haven't been around that long but I think the 'bones' of this system come from Exalted, where a Perfect Attack would beat an Infinite Defense. It might help to think of it this way: Infinite means it has a bonus of an arbitrarily high number, say a google to the power of a google. So your AC can be that number, or even more if you want. Since it's still a number, this can be defeated by a power that's just a flat "I hit no matter what your number is. I don't even care to check what your number is." That's a perfect attack. A perfect can then be beaten by another level of "I win" attack/defense such as "no, I defend no matter what you say, even if you say you hit no matter what, I still defend." This escalation could be represented numerically as Perfect +1, which would be beat by Perfect +2. This can continue until you have Perfect +Infinite. Perfect + Infinite can be beat by "I win no matter how many times you say you win." We can call that a Transcendent attack/defense. So then you can have Transcendent +1 and so on. That's kind of what the ISH is, which is why people are saying infinite protection is still only Ish 1.9 or whatever. ISH 2 is a systemic escalation, regular to perfect to transcendent.
That's also why infinite rank or infinite ruin isn't as great as it sounds and isn't an auto win. Infinite anything is defeated by +1 ISH every time.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Nah, infinite means infinite in this system. There's a firm distinction between that and arbitrarily high. As for infinite anything being less valuable, that's manifestly untrue. There's plenty of systems where getting infinite power in it would represent shifts of greater than +1 ISH due to the way the system scales. Rank is explicitly one of those systems. Rank 2 is barely better than a baseline human but Infinite Rank is like ISH 3.999 etc.
As for the Protection example, that was infinite for attacks that couldn't destroy a universe. The Maiden could trivially destroy universes no problem, or output similar levels of power.
What it means is effectively "Your attack needs to be at least this powerful to do literally anything. If it crosses that threshold, it can do something". So you don't take chip damage from lesser opponents, no matter how many there are.
Re: this, Armaments have a statline of 700~ or so. +1000 Protection would certainly be sufficient to withstand an Armament's strikes.
As for the Protection example, that was infinite for attacks that couldn't destroy a universe. The Maiden could trivially destroy universes no problem, or output similar levels of power.
What it means is effectively "Your attack needs to be at least this powerful to do literally anything. If it crosses that threshold, it can do something". So you don't take chip damage from lesser opponents, no matter how many there are.
Re: this, Armaments have a statline of 700~ or so. +1000 Protection would certainly be sufficient to withstand an Armament's strikes.
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Rihaku
The Internet
Hm... what lead you to the conclusion that the Maiden is basically a nu-Yozi? She's much nicer than their like!
Birdsie
Sharp Talons Cleave The Worthy
- Location
- Poland
Eeeh, as
Like, if you randomly plopped She Who Lives In Her Name into the Human Sphere, her immediate reaction would probably be confusion followed by a brief existential crisis, and then anything from attempting to insert herself into whatever she perceives as the 'righteous hierarchy,' of this new, strange cosmos, or maybe just fucking off into deep space to pursue the Shining Answer. Some of the Yozis would probably run around fucking shit up or trying to conquer stuff (Malfeas, Adorjan, Ebon Dragon, Isidoros,) others wouldn't do anything much at all (Qaf, Sacheverell, Oramus, Cecelyne, maybe Szoreny,) and others would be somewhere in between (Hegra, Metagaos, Kimbery.)
It's a pretty wide palette of creatures, I think we'd have to specify which category of Yozi we're talkin' about.
(Edit: Actually, Isidoros is probably also in that last category - he'd probably be rather pretty content running around the Voyaging Realm charging into mountains and breaking people's toys.)
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Ah, well. It's probably closer to say I find her to be similar to a pre-Sun Primordial. Many bodies, many souls, many identities, but one overriding purpose and ideal. Defining qualities at 4+ ISH natively. Antecedent entities envisioned as a mixture of humanizing elements tied to forces of nature. Both diminished irreversibly by previous conflict with one or more almighty conquerors.
All standard for the trope, of course. But Dien knew instinctively about Cursebearers and the Lathe, even before he had met and gauged Hunger. Which means that's probably built-in to Foremost biology, which would require they be post-Lathe in origin. And the OG Yozi are dead, or so close as to be indistinguishable.
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- Pindorama
Not with their Rank added on, since the fact that the Armor of Midnight got buckled is kind of uncontestable, here. unless you are arguing infinite protection is less than +1000? Or do you mean us now vs then?
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
At that time, Procyon's Rank was contesting with our own and the Bastion of Myth besides. The gap involved there was not so great that it would completely trump a difference of 300+ stat points (especially considering how the gap increases as stats get higher), even with the Shroud in play. Rather, the level of impact shown is pretty much exactly what I'd expect for that sort of difference.
- Location
- Pindorama
I mean, the fact that the Armor only gave us partial protection is proof enough that Procyon's blow was greater than the Armour, whether it gave +1000 or infinite protection. Looking at our stat sheet as of Foward (thanks for maintaining that by the way) I don't know if our 7.675 Rank included the general +1 buff from Once and Future or not, which means a variance from 8.675 to 9.675 Combat Rank*, which in the best case is still a bit less than overwhelming. Of course, Hero-Defeating Stance quartered the penalty and our alpha strike weakened it a bit, but by that time it had already been able to deploy his Shroud, which supposedly made Armaments "invincible" but we still have no specific details for, plus of course its Rank was boosting 700+ stats...
So actually, I don't know anymore. Great.
*Man, imagine if +1 Defensive Rank had stacked with other Rank modifiers. In retrospect, Sliver of Evening was incredibly lame.
