Yeah. I mean, it's not like buffing Aobaru is bad by any means(although this make not EFBing him will hurt that much more), so it's basically opportunity cost of buffed Aobaru doing anything between now and the moment we use stored wish vs value of stored wish minus value of buffing Aobaru.

It's pretty easy decision to make, honestly, especially since it's the only way non-Favor build can hope to contest the amount of short-term power.
 
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's favor." (2 wishes)


I would not mind Grace/Exaltation winning, but I do like both OaF/Forebear lore and the idea of Hunger asking for and getting Haeliel's oriflamme more, so that's what I'll vote for.
 
[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] Night's Ambition

and a few WIT and an INT plus, IIRC.
We don't have dreadnought's bearing so we won't get those.
Nah, Apocryphal does not care. If our main force was in companions, it would have scaled up to our companions.
Incorrect, the size of the fraction of the Apocryphal that Hunger bears is determined by his power.
Hang on, why are people assuming Haeliel's Wish is the only way to resurrect Catherine? Hunger was originally planning to achieve the power to do so himself, banking a Wish to revive her is a shortcut, not the only method available. For those voting for sentimentality of Hunger's wife, do remember this is optional.
We would have to get to the level of the Hidden Ones to do so, which is very unlikely to happen within the quest.
There have been several opportunities where we had a choice about how much risk to pursue. For example, the thread could have voted to enter a fishing contest instead of destroying a landmark owned by a figure of "unfathomable malice". Did you vote for the safer option?
Why the aggression?
...why the trash can
What else would you put the eyeball in?
Also, what if the grace does get used up on this coming proc? We will still have a minimum of 50 years to go before we can use it again. I'd rather take my chances on the Favor meaning we aren't overwhelmed.
If we get Favor then after the next Apocryphal proc it will not protect us from future procs as the Apocryphal will have scaled to it, however if we take Grace instead we will have gotten guaranteed protection from certain death once per Geas task.
we have been explicitly warned about the severity of the next Apocryphal proc both in and out of character, with Rihaku directly stating getting some for of power immediately being wise.
This is not our only opportunity to get power to prepare for the upcoming Apocryphal proc, once we get to the realm of evening we will be able to get rare advancements that we otherwise would not be able to obtain easily that give us improved progression, such as Rune King, and the prerequisites for getting Ruling Ring piecemeal Preeminentce War and Preeminentce Passion. We could then use the 400% Praxis advancement rate Rune King would provide to obtain enormous amounts of power. If we manage to get both RR and Rune King then we would likely be better off studying the signs as those would benefit from the ++ Progression, unless TSH allows us to further improve the rate of advancement for the Praxis.
 
Well, Haeliel is an interesting enough character that... spending... 50 Arete on her isn't as painful anymore. The last part of the update is especially uplifting, as it seems to have infused Hunger with that ephemeral and fleeting feeling called hope. It's an acknowledgement and affirmation from a literal embodiment of Heroism and Justice (at last! too bad she didn't give us a Hand, but an eye, liver and lung are fine too), which likely means a lot to someone who was betrayed by the very people he tried to save after he sacrificed everything for it. To me this is the best part of choosing Haeliel as a contact and it made me much less worried about Hunger's mental stability, so picking her is probably a positive on the whole. Just ought to avoid thinking about all the other nice things we could have bought for that Arete.

So what to pick here? Or better asked, what are my priorities? I don't want Hunger to die, and seeing how the Accursed himself thought we wouldn't survive without this intervention, we should pick something that ensures our safety come next Apocryphal proc. I want to revive Catherine sometime before the epilogue, as I think getting her back is pretty important to Hunger, and this seems like the only option that would allow it. I want Haeliel to be a recurring character, since she is pretty fun and should offer good advice more often than not.

It would be nice to exalt Aobaru, but the option says it improves his potential, not his immediate power, so it's a longer-term thing. The Favor is a stupid amount of power and potential in one package for Hunger, but there is no room for yet another princess in this relationship chart picking it only leaves room for one other wish, and I'm quite hard-pressed to choose between them. Still tempted due to the potential 'Holy Shit, he's her protege' moments and the OaF booster, but no, I'll wait for something else to fill this Artifact slot. The dream of the Rod of Ages isn't dead yet, after all!

[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."


So make a wish on a star, Hunger, and hope it will be enough.

Speaking of stars, we're getting an Evening Sky bonus after all, I see! I don't think I'm ambitious enough to pursue Night's Ambition in the face of our current challenges, though it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. The Evening Sky Signs provided so far have been pretty comprehensive, offering teleportation, offense, defense and utility. It's not impossible that the following ES Signs will fill other important holes in our arsenal, so we could ostensibly get a better set bonus... yet we wouldn't have it available during the next Apocryphal proc, and we would be more constrained in our choice of Signs. The first might not be as critical if we're using the Grace on the proc in our typically profligate way, and we could make up for the second in other ways, but I'm still hesitant to commit to this path.

Of the other three set bonuses, I'm least interested in Stars Align. The next Apo proc sounds like a threat to our life, thus I'm reluctant to expand our utility. And between attack and defense I admittedly favor the former. Yet the latter would allow us to be more reckless and to recover better, which is important if we're forced to deal with something else immediately afterwards.

Well, in the end I think the idea of telling our enemies that no, this isn't moonlight that's about to hit them, is pretty funny, so

[X] Moonlight Delusion

it is. Man, we are literally punishing people in the name of the Moon as a Pretty Soldier of Justice now, aren't we? All that's missing is a sailor suit...
 
This is not our only opportunity to get power to prepare for the upcoming Apocryphal proc, once we get to the realm of evening we will be able to get rare advancements that we otherwise would not be able to obtain easily that give us improved progression, such as Rune King, and the prerequisites for getting Ruling Ring piecemeal Preeminentce War and Preeminentce Passion. We could then use the 400% Praxis advancement rate Rune King would provide to obtain enormous amounts of power. If we manage to get both RR and Rune King then we would likely be better off studying the signs as those would benefit from the ++ Progression, unless TSH allows us to further improve the rate of advancement for the Praxis.
We don't actually know if the proc will happen before and after Pillars, and we'd still need to develop the Realm of Evening so it can be capable of giving the advancements we want, which might take most of our time in the Real, anyway. I so not think we should take any power we do not take here for granted. This is especially relevant to Rune King, given how polemic losing out on restoring our eye was before, imagine it now that we are fully healed! I would not count on getting that in the least.
 
Primary Remittance: Wands: Power of Love: Binary Magic (from EFB Quest)
Lesser Remittances: The Magician, The Empress, The Emperor, The Moon, The World, The Hanged Man, Temperance, The Hierophant
Binary Magic really wants The Tower, so you can recover the Essence and mental stability expended. Any particular reason you didn't grab it?


[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
[X] Night's Ambition


Wishvote basically for Orm's reasoning, although I did come to it independently. Night's Ambition is maybe just a greed vote, but I want it. Twilight Cladding is my favorite alternative, though.
 
I must say that the current vote makes me slightly nervous. If the answer to greed from getting strain ends up being more greed and relying on grace to save us, then that benefit is effectively used up for now. After all the warnings and the increase to Apocryphal from strain, it will most likely proc, and we are left with little to show for it, since geas tasks are so long.

While on the other hand, favor would help with high end Apocryphal curses and generally increase our power to comfortable amounts. Night ambition is most likely given on how the vote is going, so there will be no help from there either.
 
Oh, well, back to my earlier vote I suppose.

[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's favor." (2 wishes)
[X] "I wish for my junior's exaltation."
[X] Night's Ambition


Passing up Favor here is really foolish, and I feel like saving the wish to revive Catherine to be a waste. So, I guess that's it. Let's hope we actually get some power to deal with the next Apocryphal proc, then.

EDIT; Forgot to approval vote Exaltation, I still think it's good and if Grace wins I'd prefer it.
 
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On that note, after binge reading I think I remember some concerns about Apocryphal curse escalating faster than us. I'm guessing the reverse is also possible? So that while we may not actually fully outpace the curse, we have a chance of at least staying ahead of the curve? Or am I mistaken?

Oh and the tally, hope I'm doing this right.

Adhoc vote count started by BrainInAJar on Oct 19, 2020 at 2:54 PM, finished with 208 posts and 54 votes.
 
{AFT} Tomb of Horrors 2.0
We don't actually know if the proc will happen before and after Pillars,
I feel it's more likely to happen after pillars, since an Apocryphal proc isn't all that strong after only 2 weeks and because its next proc is boosted I think it's probable that this will be one of the times where we will "have to dig deep and discover whether you are truly worthy of the Accursed's mantle", as the blurb for the Apocryphal curse says.
This is especially relevant to Rune King, given how polemic losing out on restoring our eye was before, imagine it now that we are fully healed! I would not count on getting that in the least.
I remember someone saying in the thread earlier in the thread that Rihaku said that both options for Ruinous Valour would of been upgraded if Hunger regained his arm back, so I don't think the thread would oppose getting Rune king when its already great bonuses are upgraded even further and we have to survive an upgraded Apocryphal proc and doesn't have to compete with options like Grace or getting the opportunity to revive Hunger's wife.
 
{AFT} Tomb of Horrors 2.0

I feel it's more likely to happen after pillars, since an Apocryphal proc isn't all that strong after only 2 weeks and because its next proc is boosted I think it's probable that this will be one of the times where we will "have to dig deep and discover whether you are truly worthy of the Accursed's mantle", as the blurb for the Apocryphal curse says.

I remember someone saying in the thread earlier in the thread that Rihaku said that both options for Ruinous Valour would of been upgraded if Hunger regained his arm back, so I don't think the thread would oppose getting Rune king when its already great bonuses are upgraded even further and we have to survive an upgraded Apocryphal proc and doesn't have to compete with options like Grace or getting the opportunity to revive Hunger's wife.
Most of those who objected to Rune King did so on aesthetic and thematic grounds rather than pure power. But who knows, maybe the results of the Tower vote scared them off. I think getting Tune King is far from a guarantee at any point.
 
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for my junior's exaltation."
[X] Moonlight Delusion

Changing to include buffing Aobaru, cause as neat as it would be to have both Catherine and Ceathlyn running around honestly her resurrection really can be put off till the next Geas task when Hunger has more of a handle on things. Then again maybe she would be able to reign in Hunger's recklessness and she is supposed to be pretty powerful. Maybe I'll switch back later.
 
Picking Favor rather than Grace when it guarantees that Hunger would survive events that would otherwise end him for this Geas task and every one after it is questionable. Favor provides a lot of raw power but I just don't think that could match the not dying ability of Grace.

On single occasions, probably not. But we do need to survive the next Apoc proc, and the next after that. Also, favor does turn away some Apocryphal foes, especially those otherwise too powerful to beat, the same ones grace would be used to defend against.
 
Hunger has been outscaling the Apocryphal, especially with the mitigation he's been gaining... just consider how outclassed he was for much of the Temple, compared to his easy favorite status in Nilfel or against Ber! That said, taking Cursebearer's Strain more than wiped out those mitigation gains for one proc, and if the Apocryphal rolls well...
 
But we do need to survive the next Apoc proc, and the next after that.
The Apocryphal curse scales with our level of power so I doubt that Favor is going to going to help us survive until Hunger can get his vengeance better than Grace, especially when it does not improve our progression and only improves our power through expensive, increasingly risky to obtain advancements.
 
I feel it's more likely to happen after pillars, since an Apocryphal proc isn't all that strong after only 2 weeks
I am pretty sure Apocryphal is not actually limited by time or a charge rate. Apo-chan follows the rules because they make things interesting, but she can totally throw them away if doing so would be more interesting.
 
I think we should at least buy Defer, Orm Embar got us the opportunity to get Haeliel as a sponsor with his lesser wish so we should respect his desire to revive Catherine.
 
The Apocryphal curse scales with our level of power so I doubt that Favor is going to going to help us survive until Hunger can get his vengeance better than Grace, especially when it does not improve our progression and only improves our power through expensive, increasingly risky to obtain advancements.

Does it? Didn't Rihaku just say we've been outclassing it, so the bigger worry for now is the Apocryphal procs that roll really well. Outside this one, that's been increased by strain. Or am I misunderstanding somehow? I also feel it's a bit wrong to say favor doesn't improve our progression, since it's exponential growth for our power. If I'm understanding correctly, increasing the baseline results in a larger baseline to exponent, and thus much greater end result than otherwise.

This is all on top of the fact that we would never have had this choice in the first place if we wouldn't need help with our greed, from taking the strain. And now the answer for greed seems to be leaning towards the least safest option. I can't help but have a bad feeling about all this.
 
Twilight Cladding is pretty nice, getting high-tier conceptual resistance and extra Protection +s when your Protection is already very high, thus receiving more value per +... it allows you to get value from Armor of Midnight without burning Rank after the first cast!
 
We aren't outclassing her in the sense of becoming too powerful for the Curse. It's more like Apocrypha is an effectively all-powerful malicious intelligent actor that wants us to suffer and arranges things so that they turn out 'interesting' in the worst sense of the word. She doesn't want to immediately crush us (yet) and keeps to some rules most of the time, so we can 'outscale' her by Progressing beyond her previous plans and making her less aggressive on average through Mitigation, but becoming more powerful just means she adjusts her future plans too, so it's a constant race. Getting more power is far from useless, but certain things simply work better against her than others, like one-time Artifacts and OOC solutions (like Haeliel's Grace).
 
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