A Simple Transaction I

[BrainInAJar]

From what I understand, a Lesser Wish was spent to get us this opportunity to begin with.

So this whole update costed 1 Lesser Wish + 50 Arete. With one of the options being 'Lesser Wish', it would in fact be 50 Arete for the next level of OaF.

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Since Favor automatically upgrades itself to the next tier of OaF, it's going to be worth 50 Arete on it own on opportunity cost and then sheer value eventually as long as we progress along that upgrade line, while still giving us a lot of immediate power right now. In fact, considering thread tendencies, Favor might be the only we get OaF IV at all, much less V; while we know every single OaF improves and compounds the effects of the last. There's a reason that this upgrade is framed as a form of +Progression.

Besides, Rihaku just said getting some immediate power here might be wise, his words:

You're staring down the Apocryphal proc which prompted Hunger's inclusion into the Cursebearer's Association... some form of immediate power may be wise!

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So I would recommend either empowering Aobaru or getting the Favor; and if the Lesser Wish wins I'd like it to accelerate our own Signs or empower Gisena. Saving it for revival when we have such a thing breathing down our necks could be considered quite a greedy play.

 

[Shard]

Um... I'm not going to pretend that Orm's Lesser Wish was something that the thread has a right to talk about spending. Nameless rewards are donations that will get deployed according to Rihaku's authorial intent and the patron's broad preferences. The resources that we have discretionary control over spending here are the 50 Arete, only.

Besides, it's an understandable oversight that you might have forgotten that the Apocryphal only has imperfect scaling, so continued power growth acts as mitigation if we can stay ahead of the curve. On the other hand, it's downright silly to pretend that power is irrelevant when we know that the Geas Task involves conflict with Armament-tier enemies.

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The logic goes like this:

1. Apocryphal scales. If due to scaling an Apoc Proc isn't powerful enough to challenges us, it'll just charge up and wait for a better opportunity.
2. With Progression we can already scale to a sufficient power level without taking undue risks.
3. Therefore, taking extra risks (or boosting Apocryphal, which has the same net effect) to progress faster is self-defeating.

Power is not irrelevant, but we can attain power just by surviving. When looked at from that perspective, isn't it silly to jeopardize our ability to acquire power (ex: due to dying) to acquire power? Consider that Haeliel herself reach High Cursebearer and defeated all her Geas tasks with the Regalia and a build that was essentially 'Balance', which provides a far lower amount of power and progression over time than the build we selected.

 

[Kurowari]

[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
[X] Night's Ambition

I only really care about two of Haeliel's bonuses (deference and guidance) and I don't actually want grace because it's boring, so I'd rather get exaltation so we can explode some Heroes into relevance or reincarnation! Night's Ambition because there's no point in taking half-measures - if you're going for Evening Sky, commit and go all the way!

Here's the strat: Explode Aobaru so that he can save himself from the Chains of Fate enemy. If he explodes in power, he'll be safe and we can pat ourselves on the back for a job well done. If he actually explodes and dies, we've saved ourselves precious time training Aobaru that would have went to waste, and we can pat ourselves on the back in consolation. Either way, it's win-win!

Well, if Hunger feels guilty for Haeliel's ineptitude proccing, I guess he can also commit sudoku by getting Haeliel to explode him with her Hero-boosting powers. If it actually works this time, we'd probably make back Aobaru's value as a sidekick in full or even more! Man, Hero Explosion is the gift that just keeps on giving... Heroism is the best.

 

[Shard]

Essentially, I'm pretty sick of seeing this cycle:

1. "We need more power to deal with our problems!"
2. Choose from: *Creates more problems to acquire said power.*
3. "We need more power to deal with our problems!"

We saw this with the Ber/Temple cycle, recently with the Signs cycle.

Or this variant:

1. "We need more power to deal with our problems!"/"We need this amazing new advancement to survive!"
2."ARETE STORM!"
3. We got the power option!
4. (Time passes. New problems arise.)
5. "We need more power to deal with our problems!"/"We need this amazing new advancement to survive!"

Doesn't it say something that we've spent at least 100 Arete, if closer to 200 Arete, on advancements, and are still facing repeated death/companion death % in our journey?

 

[BrainInAJar]

It's true that we can use a Wish to guarantee our survival, but Apocryphal does not possess perfect decision making, nor can it hold what it prepared indefinitely. So if we use a Lesser Wish to save ourselves when Wishing for power prior would have just let us win anyway, we have wasted the opportunity the Lesser Wish provided. Both Favor and Exaltation invest in power so we can have it not only for the dangers we may face, but also the opportunities we acquire. And if Lesser Wish wins, I also advise doing just that instead of saving it. As they say, the rich get richer, and the best way to gather power is to already have power. In that sense, saving the Wish here feels like a waste.

Essentially, I'm pretty sick of seeing this cycle:

1. "We need more power to deal with our problems!"
2. Choose from: *Creates more problems to acquire said power.*
3. "We need more power to deal with our problems!"

We saw this with the Ber/Temple cycle, recently with the Signs cycle.

Or this variant:

1. "We need more power to deal with our problems!"/"We need this amazing new advancement to survive!"
2."ARETE STORM!"
3. We got the power option!
4. (Time passes. New problems arise.)
5. "We need more power to deal with our problems!"/"We need this amazing new advancement to survive!"

Doesn't it say something that we've spent at least 100 Arete, if closer to 200 Arete, on advancements, and are still facing repeated death/companion death % in our journey?

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That's because of Apocryphal. No, that's wrong, we also like taking dangerous options too. Point is, if you want to change that, it's not through build votes; build votes are where we get powers to mitigate and work with our decision-making. If you don't want constant danger, you need to speak up when voters actually choose it.

But if we do choose it, we do need the power to survive it; our decision-making and build not being in alignment is actually more dangerous than not. And given his whole Style of Rule and whatnot; we have established risky decision-making quite thoroughly at this point, so it's best to act like instead of hoping for a swerve when a hit to us is imminent.

 

[TwistedJester]

Goodbye Rune King. I hardly knew that you'll die like this.

 

[Shard]

That's because of Apocryphal. No, that's wrong, we also like taking dangerous options too. Point is, if you want to change that, it's not through build votes; build votes are where we get powers to mitigate and work with our decision-making. If you don't want constant danger, you need to speak up when voters actually choose it.

But if we do choose it, we do need the power to survive it; our decision-making and build not being in alignment is actually more dangerous than not. And given his whole Style of Rule and whatnot; we have established risky decision-making quite thoroughly at this point, so it's best to act like instead of hoping for a swerve when a hit to us is imminent.

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Our build votes are inextricably tied to our decision-making..

 

[BrainInAJar]

Our build votes are inextricably tied to our decision-making..

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But past decision-making influences build votes too; that's what you were just complaining about! Currently, we have decided to boost Apocryphal to grab more power, and so must face this build vote with the knowledge a boosted Apocryphal proc is coming soon. Saving the Wish is unwise however, simply because while it might save us there's a loss of opportunity cost involved when we don't power up and defeat the proc that way; we'd have lost nothing but gained nothing, while if we use it proactively we'd actually be ahead! We know this Wish doesn't have any drawbacks either, so spending it is fine. In that sense, investing is worth far more than saving.

If you want to change this risk-seeking pattern, you should try your best when we vote to take risks. Now that we must face the risks anyway, flinching from them is unwise. You should not hesitate from what would be the best decision just because it is a cycle you have seen before; and frankly, I think we have done quite well for ourselves even before the flood of benefits from Patreon. I'd rather use this build vote to put us in the best possible position than to hope against hope our style of decision-making changes 1700+ pages into the thread.

 

[Shard]

But past decision-making influences build votes too; that's what you were just complaining about! Currently, we have decided to boost Apocryphal to grab more power, and so must face this build vote with the knowledge a boosted Apocryphal proc is coming soon. Saving the Wish is unwise however, simply because while it might save us there's a loss of opportunity cost involved when we don't power up and defeat the proc that way; we'd have lost nothing but gained nothing, while if we use it proactively we'd actually be ahead! We know this Wish doesn't have any drawbacks either, so spending it is fine. In that sense, investing is worth far more than saving.

If you want to change this risk-seeking pattern, you should try your best when we vote to take risks. Now that we must face the risks anyway, flinching from them is unwise. You should not hesitate from what would be the best decision just because it is a cycle you have seen before; and frankly, I think we have done quite well for ourselves even before the flood of benefits from Patreon. I'd rather use this build vote to put us in the best possible position than to hope against hope our style of decision-making changes 1700+ pages into the thread.

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Hmm... With the view that this Apoc proc is very dangerous, it would indeed behoove us to select an option that grants us safety.. let's see if there are any such options:

[ ] "I wish my reprieve be deferred." - Saves a wish for later, though be aware that Haeliel is not at your beck and call. Useful if you wish to safely revive Catherine at a later date, the wish to be employed to deter the notice of the Hidden Ones. It would be unwise to bring Catherine back into the jaws of a high-tier Apocryphal proc, and staggeringly wasteful to spend a second wish on the revival and transport, when the latter is far more within Hunger's reach than would be deflecting the Hidden Ones.

Also generally useful if you encounter some circumstance in the future which Hunger cannot deal with, and must. Can be taken multiple times.

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Hmm. How powerful is this option, really?

*She may utilize one of her Ordinals, once, to perform an effect no greater than that of a Lesser Wish; or, when directly countering the efforts of the Apocryphal Curse, no greater than that of a True Wish or that of her full capacity, whichever is lesser.

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"No greater than a Lesser Wish, or no greater than a True Wish in regards to the Apocryphal."

You know, this does sound rather safe to me.

 

[Box Lunch]

If you want to change this risk-seeking pattern, you should try your best when we vote to take risks. Now that we must face the risks anyway, flinching from them is unwise. You should not hesitate from what would be the best decision just because it is a cycle you have seen before; and frankly, I think we have done quite well for ourselves even before the flood of benefits from Patreon. I'd rather use this build vote to put us in the best possible position than to hope against hope our style of decision-making changes 1700+ pages into the thread.

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Isn't that what a cycle is? We're always going to be taking risks and then digging ourselves out of them if we keep taking risks expecting ourselves to dig out of them in time. With each victory we self-confirm, creating the real data needed to reject speculative alternatives when the next decision point arrives.

It's not enough to vote for or against, because votes are just a means of tracking the surface layer of consensus. Without commitment to another path, we'll default in all but obviously suicidal circumstances to what we've observed has worked before. And commitment is measured, first and foremost, in sacrifice.

 

[Tyrant_Rayne]

[X] "I wish for the Seraph's favor." (2 wishes)
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] Night's Ambition

Some good points have been made about immediate power. However I am not willing to give up grace. The long term survivability it offers is simply too good. Guidance is fun but in the end I think grace is better.

 

[BrainInAJar]

Hmm... With the view that this Apoc proc is very dangerous, it would indeed behoove us to select an option that grants us safety.. let's see if there are any such options:

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Saving the Wish is unwise however, simply because while it might save us there's a loss of opportunity cost involved when we don't power up and defeat the proc that way; we'd have lost nothing but gained nothing, while if we use it proactively we'd actually be ahead! We know this Wish doesn't have any drawbacks either, so spending it is fine. In that sense, investing is worth far more than saving.

Click to shrink...

Saves a wish for later, though be aware that Haeliel is not at your beck and call.

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[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."

Favour is tempting. Like really tempting. I mean it's basically an EFB on it own and one that improves in value the more OAF's we get. But I'm not willing to give up the advice corner and the lesser wish for it. Also it's good that we don't have to choose between the lesser wish and Catherine at this point in time.

[X] Night's Ambition

The boosts are good but not game changers. I'd put their value at about 7-12 Arete. Probably better to wait for the major boost.

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You're staring down the Apocryphal proc which prompted Hunger's inclusion into the Cursebearer's Association... some form of immediate power may be wise!

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Literally in direct response to a vote exactly like yours. If we don't get power here, there's a very real chance it won't be available for the Proc, and even if it was available it would be a wasteful use as I said above, given the Wish can be used to give us the tools to win on our own.

Isn't that what a cycle is? We're always going to be taking risks and then digging ourselves out of them if we keep taking risks expecting ourselves to dig out of them in time. With each victory we self-confirm, creating the real data needed to reject speculative alternatives when the next decision point arrives.

It's not enough to vote for or against, because votes are just a means of tracking the surface layer of consensus. Without commitment to another path, we'll default in all but obviously suicidal circumstances to what we've observed has worked before. And commitment is measured, first and foremost, in sacrifice.

Click to shrink...

But if you want to break the cycle, you should not start here, when we still need the power; but the next time we face a risky decision for rewards. Now, I like taking risks and I like this playstyle, I've said that quite openly, but I do advise to try to break when we can afford to try to break it, not in the middle of a crucial moment.

Not that I don't think this is an uncharitable interpretation of the ways we have voted so far; there were plenty of good reasons to do what we did. But if you do want to turn the quest around, I'd advise another time.

 

[Shard]

Literally in direct response to a vote exactly like yours. If we don't get power here, there's a very real chance it won't be available for the Proc, and even if it was available it would be awasteful use as I said above, given the wish can be used to give us the tools to win on our own.

But if you want to break the cycle, you should not start here, when we still need the power; but the next time we face a risky decision for rewards. Now, I like taking risks and I like this playstyle, I've said that quite openly, but I do advise to try to break when we can afford to try to break it, not in the middle of a crucial moment.

Not that I don't think this is an uncharitable interpretation of the ways we have voted so far; there were plenty of good reasons to do what we did. But if you do want to turn the quest around, I'd advise another time.

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To surmise my view: This view is precisely the problem.

I doubt we will able to convince the other, though.

 

[ImperatorV]

Inspired by our latest update... I've made an extension of something I made long(-ish) ago. #1326 Words

Gangs of AST1 CYOA Thing DLC: Seraph Special

Hey Everybody! It's Your Girl, Haeliel, and it's just wonderful to meet you all! Now, you've all worked hard to earn my sponsorship for Hunger, so I decided to give everybody a little gift~

Remember when ImperatorV did a thing a while back? Well, in honor of the existence and victory of Haeliel Gang, I'm giving you all a little upgrade to that. Make sure you've played the original first, and then, pick one of your artifacts from the original, and I'll reforge it in the fires of Heroism! Results uncertain, but definitely awesome!

This seems fairly self-explanitory. One thing to keep in mind is that the effects of the upgraded artifacts are in addition to the original effects, not instead of. Another is that the upgrades for the SAVE and SPEND artifacts are kinda boring, and I wasn't able to come up with an upgrade for the FISHING ROD at all - to be fair, those artifacts were kinda hard to write interesting upgrades for.

Spoiler: Artifacts

The SORD -> The Hero's Blade - The SORD is no longer a simple length of metal, but an artistic masterpiece of bladecraft, forged of shining steel and decorated with tasteful amounts of gold filigree. Gain +++Might, +++Agility, ++Int, ++Charisma, ++Willpower. Your rank gain is increased by +30% for heroic feats. If you chose to emulate the Forebear, halve mental contamination of the Forebear.


Staff of the MAEG -> Staff of the ARCHMAEG - The runes covering the staff now burn with gentle golden fire, slightly warm to the touch. Choose one of the following:

-Seraph's Embrace - Requires either Soul's Wisdom or Surging Force. Your Soul Evocation or Imaginary Element is expanded in scope of action and maximum power, and your rate of advancement in it is increased. The magic in question also takes on some amount of fiery and/or angelic imagery for at least some of its manifestations. Gain ++ to the two stats most relevant to advancing in your granted magic.
-Heroic Will - Requires Cold Light. Gain +++++ Willpower. Your ability to make yourself exert extreme effort is improved even beyond the general willpower increases - if you were unsuited to the Praxis before, you will be at least somewhat suited for it now.
-Golden Spiral - Gain access to the Ordinal Spiral, with the knowledge needed to advance encoded within the Staff of the ARCHMAEG. You may chose to sacrifice the other magic system you obtained from the staff - if you do so, gain ++++Int, ++Wits, and advance as an Ordinal Purist.



Lesser RING -> Seraph's RING - The Ring is now inscribed with Angelic Imagery. Your Dominion and Preeminence are expanded to cover one of the following domains: Heroism, Virtue, Justice, Fire, Serendipity, Leadership, or Glory. The Chief Dominion is now somewhat easier to earn if you earn it through an act of heroism. If you earn the Chief Dominion it now also applies to your expanded dominion.


Evening Sky -> Empyrean Mantle - Not a true version of the Empyrean Mantle, but a small reflection. The Evening Sky may now take on the Noonday Sky appearance, and gains +++Protection and +++Charisma. Gain the first Empyrean Sign - advancing further in the Empyrean Signs is not normally possible, but some effects may be able to manage it.


Crown of RANK -> Crown of the Hero-King - A Glorious Shining Crown, declaring the unbound power of its wearer to all that behold it. The External Rank bonus granted by the Crown is doubled. Furthermore, the Crown now elevates all of its master's stats by an amount commensurate to the external rank bonus.


The Vessel of SAVING -> Vessel of the Omakestorm - The Vessel has taken on a more elegant appearance, and now sometimes faintly rumbles with contained power. When the Vessel is unsealed, a storm of entertaining fanfics, art, and shitposts explode out of the Vessel in a chaotic mess; gain an amount of additional Arete based on the number of years the Vessel has been sealed for:
0-7 Years: +2 Arete
8-12 years: +7 Arete
13-18 years: +12 Arete
19-24 years: +18 Arete
25+ years: +25 Arete
This does mean the vessel can now grant a maximum of 50 Arete if it remains sealed for the full 25 years.


The Vessel of SPENDING -> Vessel of the Seraph's Gifts - The Vessel has shifted, from gold to radiant Orichalcum, cracks sealed with molten silver. The Vessel of the Seraph's Gifts has a simple effect - the number of advancements granted by the Vessel is doubled. Furthermore, all advancements are improved in power very slightly.


Friendship Bracelet -> Big Sis Haeliel's Friendship Bracelet - Gain +2 Defensive Rank and +++++Willpower for the purposes of resisting anything that would turn you against someone you care about. This benefit is extended to your companions with the Friendship Bracelet(s). Choose one of the following:

-The Power of Friendship - Requires A Familiar Face or New Friend. You and those who bear your friendship bracelets gain increased power and advancement rate when you work together. You can now choose to gain an alt-version of Haelliel's past self with New Friend, if you want.
-Party of Heroes - Requires Protagonist and Companions. Your Companions, present and future, are empowered, gaining a 7-Arete equivalent advancement each.


MORAL HALO -> Seraph Halo - Now a Burning Disk, Brilliant as the Sun but somehow not searing the eyes of those who look upon it, the Seraph Halo is simple in execution: It does everything the Moral Halo did, but doubled. That's +1 External Rank stacking with all other sources and ++++++Allstats total. The requirements of the halo are unchanged - this artifact was perhaps the most fitting to receive the Seraph of Heroism's power.


Amulet of NOT DYING -> Amulet of The Eternal Hero - The Amulet now grant an additional ++Protection and ++Luck. Furthermore, if the Amulet shatters, it will reform from the shards in one year - if it shattered because the wielder was sacrificing themselves for a heroic cause, the wielder is not teleported to a safe location, but instead is massively empowered to allow them to overcome whatever would have killed them - this is effective against any opponent who is not at least one full stage above the wielder on the ISH. In this case, the Amulet reforms after only one month instead of one year.


Thorn of DYING -> Thorn of Heroic Risk-Taking - The Thorn changes to a bright red color, dripping golden fluid. As long as the one stabbed with the thorn does their best to be a hero, if they die to a thorn proc they will immediately be reincarnation isekai'd into another world that is in need of heroes.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------BONUS ARTIFACT UPGRADE___________________________________________________

The Contributor's Quill no longer has wordcount requirements - if you've posted in the thread, you can get it, perhaps Grace unasked for and undeserved but Grace nonetheless.

If you have the Contributor's Quill, it is upgraded for free in addition to whatever other upgrade you picked -

Seraph's Feather - Gain a single Least Wish, as executed by High Cursebearer Haeliel. If you do not spend this wish right away, it will be banked and automatically activate when you need it most, or you will have other opportunities to spend it at some point in the future.

Author's notes: I suspect the balance of this one is even more borked then the last! Yay.

Also, I have no idea how DarkSideBard does it, this dang thing has made me feel like I've been repeatedly punched in the torso and have been awake for 20 hours, and it's far, far less complex then DSB's thing. Also just flat-out less good in all respects. Creating is hard.

Going to stop now, **** everything, haaa~ bye.

 

[beowolf]

The Lovers/Beloved offers you basically any item/character you want as a Lesser Remittance if it's not too OP, but the only Upgrades you can get are the listed ones.

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So, remember how I said I have a pair of more questionable builds? Here's one.

Spoiler: Indenture Free Progression: 887 words

Character(The Rebels)
Dioscuri (Progression type) (3 required Major Curses)
Crowning Curse: The Curse Of Hubris (+6 RV)
Major Curses: Affliction of Vigor, Doom of the Coward, Affliction of the Figment
Primary Remittances: Inheritor (Sable and Serring Barr) and Twice-Great (Time Skein [Fractal, Wing] and Crown and Thorns [Mind, Corsage {Willpower}]
Lesser Remittances: Binary System, To Shatter Heaven, Rebuilt (Recover [Sun Yijun's mental illness] and Redress [The Souls not realizing humanity is sapient])

So, the most obvious reason this build is questionable is that is includes To Shatter Heaven. I'll leave that for last.

The original reason I thought of this plan is explained by the spoiler title. I didn't trust myself to make a Persona build, and the Rebels were the only other option that could become a Progression type without taking the Geass of Indenture.
That being said, I also wanted them to have both Pandyssian Blood and Corsage (Willpower). So that locked in Inheritor, Twice-Great, Binary System, and Curse of Hubris (as the only Crowning Curse that can be outscaled in any semi-permanent fashion).
It was looking at those requirements that made me select the rest of my build. I'm already using Inheritor on one of the premade options, so the second should be one of the two remaining ones. They're already feeding the Corsage off the Mind to take advantage of Songs having at least a few decades of forgettable memories from their 1200+ years of life, and whatever limited recursive loop manages to form from Pandyssian Blood, and maybe some things from the past lives, so Mentallics, after some Progression, should allow them to copy other people's memories without hurting them, and give it more food that way, prioritizing Barr. Then, with one magic system slot left open, and already using Inheritor, they went with Time Skein and the Fractal Perception to maybe get more out of that, either in more lives, or more thorough connections to the other universes. Wing was just the specialty that seemed most useful alone.
I then needed to decide on their three Major Curses, and consider what to take to allow them to survive having a Crowning Curse. They can absolutely outscale their home universe to the point that Hubris is no longer dangerous, but they won't start there, and they also won't be avoiding conflict that could ruin them. ...Avoiding Conflict... Doom of the Coward? But that's about fear. How could someone with the Curse of Hubris be too scared to do anything? Well, these two are the nice one. Really, look at their goals and their Swords upgrade. And their powers are heavily focused on the mental. They're not scared for themselves, they're scared they'll erase anyone they get in direct conflict with and replace them with puppets. Even long before they have that capability.
So they'll go for the light touch, using history and psychology (and eventually proper psychohistory) to identify the right places to push, and Theft plus Guerrilla Warfare to get into secure areas without directly attacking anyone to mess with paperwork, and stick to Read-only with their Mentallics, still boosting their social arguments but not to cause mind control. After all, they want to change the opinion of an entire interstellar society, and that needs to be done by guidance. Doing so by force either fails, or destroys the society and replaces it with something completely different in the process of succeeding.
And that means no-one will learn about their powers, since they don't use them blatantly. So Affliction of the Figment isn't a problem, because no one will ever know to try to resist them. And between Songs being a Soul, already being partially illusory, and their connection to The Void, pyschic fields, and alternate dimensions, they should be entirely ready to transition to being a purely psychic entity living between worlds but able to manifest a physical avatar when necessary by the time Vigor comes due.
...I think. Between their three inherent abilities and their Fractal Energy (and specific focus on perceiving it's stickiness), this should be possible. But they may not be conceptually able to combine that well. And that's why I took To Shatter Heaven. And now that we're on the topic, it really should be available, at least by what's written down. What Beloved actually says is "Pick any Lesser Remittance offered in a past AST quest or an Omake quest, or any person or item from a past Rihaku quest at any point in their existence." So, while your statement I quoted says that you didn't intend for this, every Upgrade Less Remittance is completely valid, as written. Thus, why the build is questionable.
...And if I'm being questionable anyway, let's spend that last Remittance on Rebuilt to Redress the main issue of the setting, where the Souls in general made a mistake and thought humanity wasn't sapient. It won't change the setting, but any extra personality from Redress should have a synergy with both Inheritor and Twin Souled, and the memories of what that alternate society was like should help in coming up with a plan to make their current society come to the same realization. It also let's them fix Sun's mental illness, which is more of a nice bonus than crucial after they learned how to work together, but is still nice.

Edit: I type 987 when it was 887. The perils of mobile.

 

[BrainInAJar]

I do want to stress again the part that says Haliel is not at our beck and call. If we want to use the power of a Lesser Wish against the next Apocryphal Proc, we should Wish for power right now instead of risking she won't be available. If you are saving the Wish, we do incur a great risk doing so.

In a sense, empowering Aobaru does have tons of value, since it helps both against his nemesis and the next proc. But getting Favor here is a good idea too. Namely, just don't count on the wish to save our asses, because it just might not.

 

[Zfglx]

I do want to stress again the part that says Haliel is not at our beck and call. If we want to use the power of a Lesser Wish against the next Apocryphal Proc, we should Wish for power right now instead of risking she won't be available. If you are saving the Wish, we do incur a great risk doing so.

In a sense, empowering Aobaru does have tons of value, since it helps both against his nemesis and the next proc. But getting Favor here is a good idea too. Namely, just don't count on the wish to save our asses, because it just might not.

Click to shrink...

Considering that once and future 2 explicitly states that it might be an underwhelming pick if we do not have additional ISH scaling I don't thinks we can just rely on it either and while the other components of favor and an eventual Once and Future 3 could make up for that I am still not sure it is worth a cost that includes 2 wishes and a panoply slot.

Also I do hope the healing hasn't ruined our chances of rune king, cause that would be such value with all the magic we have in our hands, admittedly it would be somewhat awkward to put out our own eye for it, but I am sure we can find a dramatic way to attain such a state post some horrendous risk.

 

[Rah13]

Considering that once and future 2 explicitly states that it might be an underwhelming pick if we do not have additional ISH scaling I don't thinks we can just rely on it either and while the other components of favor and an eventual Once and Future 3 could make up for that I am still not sure it is worth a cost that includes 2 wishes and a panoply slot.

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We have additional ISH from Aobaru, the blurb also states it grants immense immediate power.

 

[Zampano]

To surmise my view: This view is precisely the problem.

I doubt we will able to convince the other, though.

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There have been several opportunities where we had a choice about how much risk to pursue. For example, the thread could have voted to enter a fishing contest instead of destroying a landmark owned by a figure of "unfathomable malice". Did you vote for the safer option? Alternatively, we could have taken a political approach instead of engaging in open conflict where the risk of bodily harm is more immediate. Did you vote for the safer option? Then, we had the choice between contacting Lord Eruntael, liberating the Princess, or chasing the Shard of the Arcanist. Eruntael wasn't exactly viable, but did you vote for the safer viable option?

It might be worth examining how your own votes have contributed to the thread's risk preferences and build priorities. If we have an undue focus on personal power then maybe one way to redirect our attention would be to present the thread with challenges that do not force Hunger to grasp every scrap of available power to avoid certain death.

Like, this isn't even an issue of comparing long term spending efficiency versus the compounding effect of immediate power. How do the options you have voted for line up with your stated preferences?

 

[Zfglx]

We have additional ISH from Aobaru, the blurb also states it grants immense immediate power.

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I get this, I am just asking if it is worth what we at this moment are considering spending on it, because I don't think it is.

 

[Tyrant_Rayne]

Also I do hope the healing hasn't ruined our chances of rune king, cause that would be such value with all the magic we have in our hands.

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Now I have an idea on how to get RK despite the new eye. All we need is a spoon, a trash can, and something to bite down on.
...Also quick question which eye do you like more, right or left?

 

[BrainInAJar]

Considering that once and future 2 explicitly states that it might be an underwhelming pick if we do not have additional ISH scaling I don't thinks we can just rely on it either and while the other components of favor and an eventual Once and Future 3 could make up for that I am still not sure it is worth a cost that includes 2 wishes and a panoply slot.

Also I do hope the healing hasn't ruined our chances of rune king, cause that would be such value with all the magic we have in our hands.

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I do think boosting our 9.6 Martial rank +0.2 on the ISH would be quite a substantive boost, never mind the upgrade to our Power of Ruin, Bloodcasting, Praxis Spells, etc; along with +0.2 ISH on all our stats too. It would be quite a great amount of immediate power that would only get better with time. Picking it up here is not a waste in the least.

 

[Enohthree]

Also I do hope the healing hasn't ruined our chances of rune king, cause that would be such value with all the magic we have in our hands, admittedly it would be somewhat awkward to put out our own eye for it, but I am sure we can find a dramatic way to attain such a state post some horrendous risk.

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We were told that healing our arm prior to picking the option that healed/permanently disabled it wouldn't make those options go away, but would instead of upgraded both. Presumably it works this way for the eye as well.

 

[Rah13]

Now I have an idea on how to get RK despite the new eye. All we need is a spoon, a trash can, and something to bite down on.
...Also quick question which eye do you like more, right or left?

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...why the trash can

 

[Zfglx]

I do think boosting our 9.6 Martial rank +0.2 on the ISH would be quite a substantive boost, never mind the upgrade to our Power of Ruin, Bloodcasting, Praxis Spells, etc; along with +0.2 ISH on all our stats too. It would be quite a great amount of immediate power that would only get better with time. Picking it up here is not a waste in the least.

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This is fair, but I am still not sure that this is worth a panoply slot in addition to 2 wishes. While it cost a bunch to get tears, it gave us a ton just getting it and will give us advancements. There is a whole world of potential artifacts out there that will give us stuff we cannot already get, so it seems a bit much to spend so much on something we can and will get eventually anyways. Also I really don't think we need to incentivize the Forbear train anymore and beyond that I kind of actually want to see us with a shroud before we choose to sacrifice it to greatness not to mention I want to know what the sacrifice changes SJUC cause that seems to have the shroud as a major component.