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A Simple Transaction I

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Box Lunch said:
I look forward to seeing how long the Delta lasts once Aobaru's enemy arrives in force.
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But Box Lunch, surely a government system that is stabilized exclusively by a single powerful executive will be robust against the introduction of an individual that wants to prevent the Voyaging Realm from being restored.

There's no way that the executive will be terminated as a distraction for Aobaru, or subverted as an easily appropriated source of manpower and resources...
 
I see we're already personally responsible for every tragedy that befalls the Voyaging Realm, that's good to know. That this government will fall eventually as all governments do is no reason to cause their fall ourselves, that's moronic. Just let them have what prosperity remains for them and deal with them should they actually become a problem. Just knock off with the salt.
 
BrainInAJar said:
I see we're already personally responsible for every tragedy that befalls the Voyaging Realm, that's good to know. That this government will fall eventually as all governments do is no reason to cause their fall ourselves, that's moronic. Just let them have what prosperity remains for them and deal with them should they actually become a problem. Just knock off with the salt.
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Fool, how do you not see!? Our enemy will always act in such a way as so turn us against each other, fabricating reasons for us to relitigate votes from aeons past. A defense that only the Triple Forebear Special Advancement could have cut through, a level of charisma that only Threefold could have matched, an attack against our companions that could only be defended with Rank one level below ours.

This is how he destroys us: not by sword but through salt.
 
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BrainInAJar said:
I see we're already personally responsible for every tragedy that befalls the Voyaging Realm, that's good to know. That this government will fall eventually as all governments do is no reason to cause their fall ourselves, that's moronic. Just let them have what prosperity remains for them and deal with them should they actually become a problem. Just knock off with the salt.
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If I'd put another thousand words into disguising what I was saying, I'm sure it would have come off more polite and erudite.

Regardless, I still have to ask. If we're only buying the locals another six months before some horror we're not going to be here for attacks and kills their Despot anyway, then why is that worth more than the appropriating the Armament Fish? Is this not an example of taking responsibility for the people of the Delta without prior investment or significant result?

40 votes is a lot. I hate not being able to read the tide. Help me out?
 
Box Lunch said:
If I'd put another thousand words into disguising what I was saying, I'm sure it would have come off more polite and erudite.

Regardless, I still have to ask. If we're only buying the locals another six months before some horror we're not going to be here for attacks and kills their Despot anyway, then why is that worth more than the appropriating the Armament Fish? Is this not an example of taking responsibility for the people of the Delta without prior investment or significant result?

40 votes is a lot. I hate not being able to read the tide. Help me out?
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How do you know they are going to get attacked in the next 6 months? If they are, what are the chances they crumble instead of mounting a successful defense?

The logic is simple; voting for Stalks would bring calamity to them immediately and with great surety unless we also spend more time in mitigating the consequences. If we leave them alone, they might get eaten the next day, or truck along for a decade more undisturbed. They have done well so far, what's so unlikely about the fact they will stay that way for a while? We don't need to reflexively depose every Tyrant we see. If it ends it ends and it would not be our fault; we are not responsible for the actions of others. That's why people find the Armament fish far more palatable.
 
Man, it'd honestly be super funny if we choose to Abduct the Armament-Fish like we did the Opalescent Tower. Might start a chain of sidequests where we find Decimation mitigation opportunities and keep chasing the shiny in each one.

Hunger quest is now Decimator sidequests journey! We ignore the conquest of the Human Sphere in order to pursue more sidequests, until we find that our Decimation has wiped out most of all life and makes it a cinch for us to take over the remaining human territories. Mission accomplished!
 
BrainInAJar said:
Just knock off with the salt.
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no lol


but also: it was a stressful weekend and i might be using the thread to vent a little bit more [existential dread] than normal. I apologize if that's made my posts to the thread less fun to read
I see we're already personally responsible for every tragedy that befalls the Voyaging Realm, that's good to know. That this government will fall eventually as all governments do is no reason to cause their fall ourselves, that's moronic. Just let them have what prosperity remains for them and deal with them should they actually become a problem.
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Here's the thing about that:


It is ultimately a pretty selfish philosophy. Whether or not he is "responsible" for the anarchy following Termeran's death, Hunger is the one who (1) knows it is coming, and (2) has the ability to reduce or prevent the fallout. It is selfish to prioritize a clean conscience over lives that can otherwise be saved. It is selfish to say that Hunger can pick and choose which individuals get moral consideration.

If morality is your driving force, leaving the Planar Delta to its fate is not a great look.
 
Zampano said:
then we will turn our attention to bypassing the Magus Extraction Filter. There will be additional updates in the VR while we address this task. Those updates might give us enough time to pacify any anarchy that erupts after taking the Lord of Stalks mission.

IMO this is a pretty effective rebuttal to any humanitarian concerns associated with the assassination. We are (stupidly) leaving the VR, but first we have to find a way around the Apocalyptic consequences for stealing Magi. During that process we can handle any little fires that pop up as a result of the Huntress Moon target.
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Assuming one can install Adorie as the leader of the Planar Delta or put out fires within the additional updates that are nominally supposed to be focused on something else/probably involve being at Voyaging City instead of at the Planar Delta falls flat in the face of enough foresight, something that the Lord of Stalks is said to have in the blurb.

i.e. He has a legally appropriate successor already ready/an entire chain of command that can step up but would be worse than him or wouldn't be able to hold out in the long run but would certainly be able to manage and stay strong for a month, which is absolutely nothing in terms of governance handovers normally but we'd be far gone by then.

Also I dislike the declaration that says any option people picked was stupid if it was not Long Voyage. I personally thought it was the wrong choice, sure, and was willing to fight for my option but I did not believe people who voted for it were being stupid, just that they had different priorities.

edit: venting is venting I suppose
 
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Adhoc vote count started by ReaderOfFate on Aug 25, 2020 at 12:52 AM, finished with 340 posts and 66 votes.
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Enohthree said:
I did not believe people who voted for it were being stupid, just that they had different priorities.
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Having different aesthetic priorities does not make other voters stupid. People enjoy different parts of the quest: lots of voters were swayed by QM Hints about the plot or Patreon-only info. That's not stupid either. I did not intend to call any individual player stupid and should have clarified that my objection is to the outcome, not the voters.

I'm trying to stem the flow of 🧂 now so that's all I should say about the topic
 
Zampano said:
Here's the thing about that:


It is ultimately a pretty selfish philosophy. Whether or not he is "responsible" for the anarchy following Termeran's death, Hunger is the one who (1) knows it is coming, and (2) has the ability to reduce or prevent the fallout. It is selfish to prioritize a clean conscience over lives that can otherwise be saved. It is selfish to say that Hunger can pick and choose which individuals get moral consideration.

If morality is your driving force, leaving the Planar Delta to its fate is not a great look.
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How do you know that Hunger is the only one in a position to know the chaos that would result with his death, and he's the only one with the ability to reduce the damage?

I understand that this choice could be likened to our own choice of Revenge over Freedom, but there's ultimately a limit to how many problems we can juggle at once. The Planar Delta's demise seems in no way imminent, and we can't be the only one who realized their peace relies on the safety of a single person. Hunger is not the only one with agency in the world; we can help them should they actually be in danger.

Seriously, we don't know shit. That the Planar Delta will die tomorrow and not enjoy 20 more years of prosperous rule is pure speculation. If the option said his death was imminent anyway you might have a point, but given the civil strife is the main drawback of the Mitigation I seriously doubt it. There's way higher odds that killing him right now would cause more strife than in any other time.

Additionally, If we die in any way all our polities are fucked too, so what right we have to kill him for that? Is that really a precedent we want to set, one so easily turned against us? You say he's morally reprehensible so it's different; but we are arguably worse given all our Curses. Would you prefer to live with someone personally offensive or live with someone with the Apocryphal Curse? I know which one I would pick. Adorie is certain a hedge against this, but she's too weak to secure her rule without us so the principle problem doesn't leave.

It just feels extremely pointless; twisting the to say vote whose very drawback is the immediate loss of life due to internecine strife is actually the most moral choice is pretty puzzling to me, anyway.
 
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Zampano said:
But Box Lunch, surely a government system that is stabilized exclusively by a single powerful executive will be robust against the introduction of an individual that wants to prevent the Voyaging Realm from being restored.
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Do we have any reason to suspect that (not)Cursebearer wants to prevent the Voyaging Realm from being restored? Geas blurb we've seen in AST0 was "kill the Hero", nothing about their goals.
 
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agumentic said:
Do we have any reason to suspect that (not)Cursebearer wants to prevent the Voyaging Realm from being restored? Geas blurb we've seen was "kill the Hero", nothing about their goals.
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None to my knowledge. Acting in opposition to the Hero's goal is a viable strategy to get them to come to you and spare the effort of searching for them. Wether or not the alleged Cursebearer does this though is up for debate. Heck they may not even know what Aobaru's goal even is.
 
Tyrant_Rayne said:
None to my knowledge. Acting in opposition to the Hero's goal is a viable strategy to get them to come to you and spare the effort of searching for them. Wether or not the alleged Cursebearer does this though is up for debate. Heck they may not even know what Aobaru's goal even is.
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We didn't know that the hero out of legend was an orc or that he was someone trying to civ build when he was a target of the same curse in the previous cursebearer quest, so there is that.
 
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