The more I hear about Vershlengorge, the more worried I become. It definitely feels like we're intended to get in it but its maybe the most evil seeming mech I've ever seen. The fact that piloting well requires communion with something we described as an "abomination" on first sight is something that we should be rightfully wary of. I think it might be a blessing that we didn't take the Feast; we might have to go inside the giant evil robot eventually but there's no call to become more like it...

...Also, does anyone think that Vershlengorge gets anything about of eating Astral beings? I can't tell what's worse, if it does and is slowly recovering its strength by doing so or it doesn't and just eats shit for fun. I'm not even going to entertain the idea that its purely for combat effectiveness because look at the fucking thing.
I honestly get Evangelion vibes off it- an esoteric biomonster that's dressed up in armor and weapons, and that clearly has a mind of its own that wants something... something it tries to get by eating enemies.

Which, in and of itself doesn't mean it's bad, but does mean it's gonna have weighty effects on future events beyond just "is a powerful piece of equipment."
 
Current vote count?

I wonder why they bothered with the doublespeak when it was an Astral Rift? Can the monsters that come out be sentient? Or was she just having fun? I'm also curious to see the commonalities between Nullity resealing the rifts and the Armaments forcibly restabilising reality. As a sidenote, how much do you want to bet that part of the plot is gonna end up being about the overuse of Astral technology potentially leading to mass reality failures in the future, giving a real humanitarian purpose to our conquest as we try coordinate humanity so that they can avoid a full blown Astral invasion.

Mm, fully powered Armaments are strong enough to repel even the strongest of Astral invaders that would bother with the effort, as far as anyone knows.

Also, does anyone think that Vershlengorge gets anything about of eating Astral beings? I can't tell what's worse, if it does and is slowly recovering its strength by doing so or it doesn't and just eats shit for fun. I'm not even going to entertain the idea that its purely for combat effectiveness because look at the fucking thing. As a sidenote, just noticed the foreshadowing of pommel strikes being useful against armour, rip. Even if it wasn't intentional, I still feel dumb for not thinking of that kind of tactic.

The Mordschlag is a formidable blow! And with the power of ruin, far more devastating than a mundane warhammer.

The fights feel weighty because you've got a good sense of their potential effects with regards to physics. Seram's uses of Thermal and Kinetic Amplitude stick out to my mind in paticular, as the research into laser weapons you did for the Photon Helix. I still remember the passage you wrote to illustrate Control's danger and power. It just gives things more weight to see them actually have effects like this, makes battles feel like real and not just people LARPing superpowered fights like the MCU can at times.

Huh, I actually forgot I wrote that post. It's interesting how many impracticalities of laser weapons become no longer so when you have arbitrary energy generation, no concern for collateral damage, and superhuman durability of an incredible degree!

Unfortunately, Accretion doesn't seem too conducive to that kind of thing, not unless we decide to add a backpack or whatever to our core panoply, which would be lame as fuck.

I think you mean

Cute as fuck.

Like, do people just sort of forget what we voted for? Last choice was No Quarter vs Prudence Dictates. We choose No Quarter specifically to get more short term power - and now, we have a minor wound vs Hunger proc boost(say Echo+Fell-Handed Strike). We are massively stronger than we would be with Prudence Dictates, and Prudence Dictates was supposed to be safe enough to allow us to finish the journey.

Prudence dictates would have lowered your risk tolerance as well, though there's never a true guarantee from the Apocryphal Curse. And I wouldn't classify your wound as minor, fighting at 91% efficiency is a noticeable debuff, especially with only 82% of your health.

Sure, if you ignore that those B purchases were what allowed us to actually have the space and time to save up to spend on the EFBs. And that was with literal plot armor.

They also provided a slew of utility and ancillary benefits, including enabling your overall build to a great degree!
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Thomasfoolery on May 25, 2020 at 5:43 AM, finished with 214 posts and 34 votes.
 

The three items of my panoply. The Forebear's blade which once belonged to the Tyrant's ancestor that I turned against him, the ring Hunger that I took off the Tyrant's corpse but only began to thirst again when fed a trickle of the Accursed's power... and my Hello Kitty backpack which is totally cute and completes my look.
 
Can anyone tell me what conceptual limits are, as per To Shatter Heaven? I'm assuming by the name it refers to some kind of hard cap on output, but does being able to exceed them allow for more versatility as well?
 
How did you manage to take different tallies three minutes apart?

@_@

If you go to manage votes you can consolidate the votes that are the same but tally separately, usually this is due to people taking out or leaving in flavor text. Managed votes seems to not stay though and will always revert under circumstances I'm not totally clear on, if someone other than you tallies I think it reverts and if enough time passes it also might revert.
 
I honestly get Evangelion vibes off it- an esoteric biomonster that's dressed up in armor and weapons, and that clearly has a mind of its own that wants something... something it tries to get by eating enemies.

Which, in and of itself doesn't mean it's bad, but does mean it's gonna have weighty effects on future events beyond just "is a powerful piece of equipment."
Yeah, it's basically an EVA unit if they were built by the Forerunners. If it isn't bad juju, it will be at least related to it. Likely to whatever wiped off the precursor race, which is usually how these things go, and our mission to unite the Human Sphere is likely there to prepare them for whatever it is. Hell, just like with defeating the Hero out of Legend in AST, maybe we can't even win if the Human Sphere isn't united.

But where the hell the Voyaging Realm fits into this? It is very unlikely to be a Halo-type weapon, though who knows. I don't think they made it for kicks. Were they trying their own version of the Lathe of Heaven and were punished for their presumption? It would kinda fit the EVA similarities given the usual Judeo-christian themes, but is a reference to a work the alluded to such themes really compelling enough evidence? There may be tons of reasons for the EVA similarities. Hell, maybe they are more like Chaos Reavers from 40k or something.

Hmm. Let's look what what we know:

In update statements:
Considered a failed prototype in the Amarlt family's disavowed eugenic super-soldier program, Catherine was relegated to the role of a lab assistant in the Astral Exploratory of her nominal House. A high-energy rift experiment gone wrong displaced her in space and time. Hurled centuries into the future, she is now the sole pureblooded inheritor of the Amarlt lineage, the main branch having long consumed itself in a fiery internecine war.
Looming above were two grander figures still. The first was an wurm-like monster covered in armor plates, towering and vast, its top a grotesque cross of dragon and jackal, lower half a single muscular tail. It was locked in the throes of battle with a vaguely humanoid abomination, bipedal and armored as well.

A pang struck him at the sight of that second giant, as if the marrow in his bones had gained magnetic charge, pulling like a pointer hound in its direction. There was an affinity between them, not that of friends, not quite allies, but... a sense of camaraderie, as if in all of the vast, lonely universe they were the only two of their kind.
The sense of affinity had grown with proximity, almost sharp now like an ache. He was certain. It was this thing - the monster itself, not any pilot or creature that resided within - that held that affinity to him, aligned across some inexpressible valence.
"Hm? Asking my opinion now? Consultations aren't free, you know," Gisena teased.

He scoffed. "Riding on my back isn't free either."

"Are you saying you didn't enjoy that?" She giggled. "Well, I think it's a wonderful creation! I'd love to study it. But my realm didn't have anything like this. The technology's mostly a shell, isn't it? An accoutrement of the creature beneath."

"There is power there. Far more than it's shown to us." Briefly he closed his eyes, reaching out with his instincts. It reminded him almost of the Tyrant, or of his own power at the very height, but much greater. Even the Tyrant was a mere tributary compared to the ocean that slept within this beast. Power of enormous scope, but of a tenor that was similar to his own. And yet like him it was diminished, wan shadow of its full potential. Not dammed, but run dry. And yet it would not take so terribly much for the deluge to come again.
"Well, it's complicated," the pilot temporized. "The Human Sphere encompasses about ten thousand inhabited worlds, and includes another twenty thousand uninhabited systems used for resource extraction. The Realm we're standing in technically isn't a part of it, aside from our spaceport and city. The Sphere is divided into three polities, and the nation I'm from controls about twenty-seven hundred stars. But, I actually work for a jointly-funded agency supported by all three nations, so... like I said, it's complicated. It's not really relevant, none of the states has much power here!"
"Anyway!" The pilot said, "The place we're currently trapped is named the Voyaging Realm. We believe it's an artificial universe created by an ancient species who called themselves the Foremost. It's contained by an outer ring the size of a gas giant, with the space inside heavily spun, folded, and distorted. It's constantly shifting and some parts are dangerous. A small portion of the Realm is unaffected and humans have built a city and spaceport there. That's where I'm trying to go." She showed them a picture from her manual, depicting a highly advanced metropolis with towers of steel and glass, over which loomed a small flotilla of angular ships. If this was accurate, these people were far beyond the Earth of his time.
"Neither do we, really. Long-distance travel is mostly conducted with Astral technology, either supplementing our movements or tunneling directly into the Astral Realm. Doing this destabilizes the gradient between realities, sometimes creating rifts through which Astral denizens sometimes attack us. They're especially attracted to Armaments, which can forcibly re-stabilize that gradient in a large radius. Mine is so weakened that its beacon isn't strong, so we shouldn't have to deal with anything too serious, but the Voyager Realm also has a natural rate of rift incidence. That's where you guys came from."

She hesitated, then continued to speak. "Any Astral denizens that appear from those in our vicinity are going to attack my Armament. The... dragon you fought was one. Additionally, there are some unusual creatures and societies in this Realm that are hostile to humans. Most of the creatures we encounter shouldn't be too terribly stronger than the dragon you killed. So, it'd really be safest if we traveled together! Especially if we could restore my Armament, even a little bit."

"So. We're trapped in a pocket universe that's immeasurably vast, within which space shifts so that locations don't correspond to each other. It's partially inhabited by monsters, and Astral Rifts occasionally deposit more monsters, which will automatically attack if you're in the vicinity."

She nodded. "That's right."

"So how can your 'Armament' navigate this place?"

She swallowed. "G-good question! Most Armaments are Foremost technology, mine included. There's an inbuilt navigational system for Foremost realms. I estimate it'll take us about t-two months to reach the city's staging grounds, give or take two weeks."
"Great!" She curtseyed neatly before them. "Duchess Letrizia von Artriez, pilot of the Devouring Armament, Verschlengorge. We'll be in your care."
The going was slow, the way uncertain, and Letrizia frequently had to adjust their route to account for distortions of space. There was no science in Verschlengorge's perusal of the Voyaging Realm, only instinct, which its pilot could only vaguely feel.

Out of universe statements:
DRAGON: Foolish Devourer, you teeter on your last legs but this isn't even my final form!

DRAGON: BEHOLD, my wounds now spawn countless hyena-beasts, and the very act of their creation restores my health! I am invincible! The rake of my arms is tenfold scythes, my scales battlements, shock of my tail a hurricane wall, my blood the stuff of life itself!

THE DEVOURER: I'll admit, this looks bad. But you forgot one thing, Dragon.

DRAGON: And what is that?

THE DEVOURER: He who reveals his trump card first...

THE DEVOURER: *Calls out across the infinite cosmos for a Cursebearer that shares a perfect affinity for itself. Watches the ensuing battle.*

THE DEVOURER: ...always loses.
Letrizia's willingness to answer detailed tactical / strategic / political questions is finite, depending on how deep your relationship with her is. She's not certain you don't have ill intentions, after all! Even if your help is necessary.

But you get the sense that Armaments, when fully operational and working to their potential, are at the high end of strategic-grade weapons for her civ. They're Foremost tech, after all! Presumably they're at min. more powerful than nukes by a substantial margin?
She doesn't know yet, she's only used it in 1.01 universes so far! It seems she can sense the nature of things she can nullify to some extent, since she was aware of the exact distribution of magical energy in the dragon-jackal's physiology?
Mm, fully powered Armaments are strong enough to repel even the strongest of Astral invaders that would bother with the effort
They know that it's called the Devouring Armament. Armaments, as befits lost technology, are strategic grade weapons. It's likely one as damaged as the Devourer is only good for stabilizing the realms, but that's still incredibly useful, arguably the backbone of their civilization. Implied to be the weapons of the nobility, given the Amarlt's family super soldier program produced a superb mech pilot that worked in a place called the Astral Observatory and is implied to have the rights to a mech as the last heir of the lineage, and Verschlengorge is also piloted by a Duchess; that's two for two for pilots of noble lineage.

If they are essential to FTL travel due to their stabilization abilities; it may be that the noble families keep their influence trough their control of the mechs. Given that they also double as strategic grade weaponry, forceful seizure by the government may be impossible. However, they don't seem to want to fight over the Voyaging Realm, giving authority to an independent organization instead. I don't know if they really would give control of the Armaments to a third party; but NERV did it, so why not? Maybe they have some secret plan regarding the Voyaging Realm.

Regardless, this place is inhabited and interaction with it is relegated to a third party. Why? It is natural for nations to want power and influence. Why give up such a resource rich place with goddamn magic in it?

The simplest explanation is that there are entities in the Voyaging Realm capable of challenging the Human Sphere collectively, so they'd have no chance if they went at it alone. So they made this supranational organization. Those entities may even have been responsible for the Foremost's disappearance, or are related to that. Is the organization tasked with making sure they don't spill out into the Human Sphere? The use of Armaments and their stabilization capabilities indicate such, at least.

Implied by the statements is that the Voyaging Realm has the size of 1% of the universe (which is goddamn big). Unlike the real universe however, it seems to be filled with stuff, so it might actually be bigger by that metric; they'd have no reason to just make empty space after all. So, it may be that despite the Human Sphere owning ten thousand systems collectively, the actual area controlled by these polities in the Voyaging Realm is much greater. That's out there speculation, but not impossible.

Moreover, there seem to be the implication that there are Astral Invaders even stronger than the Armaments, they just don't bother attacking them. It may be that monitoring such creatures is one of the organization's duties. If one or more of the societies in the Voyaging Realm can make use of such beasts, the nations would likely be wary. After all, combat is just one use of the Armaments and being Foremost lost tech they can't make more. They're literally irreplaceable. It's understandable if they don't want to take the risk.

But, let's return to the fact they know it's called the Devouring Armament. That pretty much says that they know it's a monster with a metal wrapping, because machines don't devour things. Not that it's not obvious, what with the huge fanged mouths and all. That definitely says that they know it's made of Astral Stuff. There's the (joking) implication it actually called to us from the multiverse, which implies that its definitely not unconscious or sleeping or what have you. This is supported by the fact that it's navigational capabilities are instinctual and therefore come from the beast inside; likely Astral Beasts in general have that sense to navigate their home environment. Given that, they likely also know it remains conscious to at least some level.

So, Let's get back to the Foremost. They made this huge realm, then made things capable of navigating that realm, stabilizing it and fighting off any monster within that realm. That, to me, makes it seem that the Voyaging Realm is an incubator, or refinery, or something like that. It implies they needed something specific from the Voyaging Realm, that they might not know where it might be spawned or created and that it might be defended. After all, I really doubt the changing nature of space inside is an accident or an unforeseen consequence. It might be the result of degradation of the structure, but I think there would have been more catastrophic consequences if it were the case.

So, assume it's intentional. They need that spacial instability to create whatever they want. So they make the Armaments to find it and extract it. Whatever it was, it might have caused their disappearance, either through ascension or civil war, or otherworldly invaders or whatever it was.

And assuming the above is true, then the real goal of the organization, backed by the nations of the Human Sphere, is also finding whatever the Foremost wanted, under the cover of exploring, monitoring, and defending against the Voyaging Realm. And whatever they find, a united humanity is necessary to overcome it.

Phew! 1039 words of baseless speculation in total. The result of my lack of sleep; I'm likely very off base in several things.

Edit: Going to sleep right now, so given my failure to advocate for King of Thieves, I'm changing my vote:

[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Forebear's Blade - Fell-Handed Stroke
 
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[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
-[X] 2 Arete: Undying Echo
[X] Forebear's Blade - Fell-Handed Stroke
 
If you go to manage votes you can consolidate the votes that are the same but tally separately, usually this is due to people taking out or leaving in flavor text. Managed votes seems to not stay though and will always revert under circumstances I'm not totally clear on, if someone other than you tallies I think it reverts and if enough time passes it also might revert.

Hm... wonder if they designed it like that, or if it's a limitation of the program.

Regardless, this place is inhabited and interaction with it is relegated to a third party. Why? It is natural for nations to want power and influence. Why give up such a resource rich place with goddamn magic in it?

Well, the resource density is not very high, the place is impossible to navigate except for Armaments, and it's quite dangerous to navigate as well! Exploitation may not scale very well, and they already have sophisticated technology for effects...
 
Seem like this world is a mess that need Yong Liefang level to navigate their politic.

Much safer to just choose more power option.
 
If our affinity to the Devourer is linked to our Decimator's Affliction Strength, and communing with it gets us the opportunity to spend Arete points, what are the odds it gives us either

A. A way to turn the Affliction into a focused weapon
B. Decimator's Mitigation.

If the mech is somehow able to cause a third impact analogue we may get a lot of mitigation eventually.
 
Seem like this world is a mess that need Yong Liefang level to navigate their politic.

Much safer to just choose more power option.
we have a pretty respectable foundation for politics stuff
however, long term I think it's unwise to full spec social and short term we need to literally fight for our life

that is, I think we can take scheming/charisma actions and power ups later and see good value from them, but right now we need to sword better.
 
PSA: You guys are pretty close to 4 Arete, you can go ahead and make votes that spend 4 if desired.

Interesting... King of Thieves and Slumber of Aeons are actually behind Undying Echo, of all things! Well, I suppose if you guys don't want lateral expansion in capacity, raw stats are valuable too... Fell-Handed Stroke isn't that good with Undying Echo however, since you're only getting +Agility and +Might. Could go for Sleep of the Just instead!

If our affinity to the Devourer is linked to our Decimator's Affliction Strength, and communing with it gets us the opportunity to spend Arete points, what are the odds it gives us either

A. A way to turn the Affliction into a focused weapon
B. Decimator's Mitigation.

If the mech is somehow able to cause a third impact analogue we may get a lot of mitigation eventually.

An interesting question! Weaponizing the Affliction is a popular idea, but the concept that a Curse will allow you to use it for your own benefit... well, that'd take some serious B)!

we have a pretty respectable foundation for politics stuff
however, long term I think it's unwise to full spec social and short term we need to literally fight for our life

that is, I think we can take scheming/charisma actions and power ups later and see good value from them, but right now we need to sword better.

You can now afford hybrid options like Slumber of Aeons + Undying Echo!
 
We need combat and social over a sufficiently long term. Esoteric attacks to kill heroes beyond recovery and social to convince nations to bend the knee.
 
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Interesting... King of Thieves and Slumber of Aeons are actually behind Undying Echo, of all things! Well, I suppose if you guys don't want lateral expansion in capacity, raw stats are valuable too... Fell-Handed Stroke isn't that good with Undying Echo however, since you're only getting +Agility and +Might. Could go for Sleep of the Just instead!
Huh. I thought Fell-Handed Stroke synergized well with Undying Echo+Echo of the Forebear.
An interesting question! Weaponizing the Affliction is a popular idea, but the concept that a Curse will allow you to use it for your own benefit... well, that'd take some serious B)!
I think Addio also posited weaponizing the Brand of the Wretched by amplifying and focusing it to a degree that targets literally die out of a sensation of pure, extremely concentrated hatred.

[X] Hunger - Sleep of the Just
-[X] 2 Arete: Slumber of Aeons
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
-[X] 2 Arete: Undying Echo


The strength of a dragon,, unyielding and undying.
 
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