A Second Sunrise: Taiwan of 2020 Sent Back to 1911
- Thread starter ChrisProvidence
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ChrisProvidence
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There is a portion of New China's R&D budget that is devoted to "Cool shit that doesn't cost too much and could be viable."
One problem with airships is that helium is non-renewable, so you would still need to use hydrogen - and therefore come up with a design that's actually safe if there's a fire. Making the envelope out of something that's not flammable is probably a good start - the envelope burning up means that the amount of lifting gas you lose becomes catastrophic quickly as the breach increases in size. More distance between the cabin and the hydrogen would also be useful, and maybe it'd be worthwhile to make the cabin a detachable glider in case of really catastrophic emergencies.
You couldn't just use a Zeppelin-type design, replace the lifting gas with helium, and call it a day, as I suspect you're thinking, which also means you'd have significantly higher R&D costs to deal with.
Probably a more fuel efficient way to travel than planes though.
STANAG
ChrisProvidence
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Hanyang Arsenal, Hanyang, Hubei, Republic of China, 10 May 1918
Now, he knew his way around machinery. That much was true.
But seeing the sheer size of the expanded arsenal still awed the newly-minted general. Sure, he didn't exactly like war, but he still managed to appreciate the engineering marvel that was the world's largest arsenal.
Then again, they kind of needed it. With the Chinese government flush with revenue, that meant the military could finally get the funding it needed.
No more M14s for my men, unless we actually ask for them.
These days, Hanyang was spitting out modern rifles and ammunition faster than anyone could have ever imagined, and they had their share of customers.
There was the NRA and the Marines, of course, but Japan, Korea, Siam,, and even the Philippines were interested in arming their soldiers with modern weaponry.
The Ottomans, France and Russia had shown some interest as well, though they would be at the back of the line due to not being members of the Nanjing Agreement.
Not yet, anyways. Constantinople, Petrograd, and Paris were all at least somewhat interested, and they all had their reasons.
Paris was possibly the most ideologically-motivated, if Marty's reports were to be believed. No, he still couldn't believe that the fucking socialists were the ones who aligned with them the most on ideology.
That will never stop being funny to me.
Besides the military advantages of having an ally with modern weaponry, cooperation over Indochina, and providing a large market for technology, the French had a bit of a falling out with the English ever since the socialists came to power.
Sure, the Entente Cordiale still existed on paper, but the French (like the Japanese) had their reasons not to trust the British.
In contrast, the Russians and Ottomans partnered with China for more pragmatic reasons. Sure, all three nations were liberal to varying degrees and they all had a chip on their soldiers about being the "Sick Man" of their regions.
But at the same time, Petrograd and Constantinople presided over largely-underdeveloped countries, and they wanted to repeat what many were calling the "Chinese Economic Miracle" in their own countries.
Weapons and equipment were a part of that process, of course. Both nations were threatened by Central Europe, so they needed all the help they could get.
Planes were off the table for all three of them. Sure, they could probably train their three prospective allies to fly them, but China needed as many multi-roles as they could get their hands on right now.
Instead, exports would be limited to small arms, artillery, and vehicles. Sure, they would be a step down from anything the Chinese had, but they were a hell of a lot better than anything those three could produce.
Plus, it's not like a Humvee or a five ton truck is some technological marvel. Hell, even our Hueys are better than anything they have right now.
It would take at least a few years, of course, but China could produce enough equipment for themselves, their allies, and their (hopefully) soon-to-be allies.
The Russians using an AR-pattern rifle is going to be the most cursed thing I've seen so far, isn't it?
German Embassy, London, United Kingdom, 28 June 1918
As a military attache to London, Major von Lettow-Vorbeck had been disappointed. He wanted to be in the field, not pushing papers behind a desk!
Still, he had his responsibilities, and if that meant accepting mysterious packages from the British, then so be it.
It was more than a bit surprising, now that he thought about it. Over the span of a few years Germany and Britain had gone from naval rivals to allies of necessity.
That necessity, of course, being China. He'd seen firsthand the Chinese efficiency and military strength in mobile warfare, and he had compiled a report upon his return.
That report, which discussed the German strategy for fighting the Chinese, could be summarized in a single word.
"Don't."
The Chinese outgunned them, outpaced them, and if the stories were to be believed the Chinese out-produced them on every front, too.
They needed something to level the playing field. Anything, if he was being honest.
And when he looked at the files he had received from the British, he knew full well that it was a chance of leveling the playing field, if ever so slight.
This was one such means. Referred to as the "L1 Rifle" by the British, it was similar to the Chinese rifles in many ways.
The key difference, however, was the larger caliber.
Exactly how the British had acquired this information was up for debate, but the Lieutenant Colonel believed they had outright printed the blueprints at their embassy and had them shipped to London.
It was what he had done when he was stationed at the Embassy in Nanjing, after all.
The rifles, however, were just one design in the documents he had been given. After that came so many more, from pistols to panzers to aircraft, of all things.
Now, he had seen aircraft firsthand, from Richtofen's multi-winged planes to the Chinese jets. This, however, was something in between the two.
Built with an aluminium frame and a steel exterior, these planes were more advanced than anything he had seen outside of China.
Their key asset, however, was the sheer simplicity of producing them, given their relatively less-complicated design.
They weren't any match for a fighter jet, but they could shoot anything less than that out of the sky.
The British hadn't had the decency to provide prototypes, of course, but he doubted they would need them. Mauser and Fokkers would be having a field day once they got their hands on these.
And if rumors were to be believed, so would Vienna and (unfortunately) Rome.
These weren't wunderwaffe, and he knew better than to rely on such mythical technology. What these were was a whole set of weapons that would help them level the playing field, if ever-so-slightly.
Now, he knew his way around machinery. That much was true.
But seeing the sheer size of the expanded arsenal still awed the newly-minted general. Sure, he didn't exactly like war, but he still managed to appreciate the engineering marvel that was the world's largest arsenal.
Then again, they kind of needed it. With the Chinese government flush with revenue, that meant the military could finally get the funding it needed.
No more M14s for my men, unless we actually ask for them.
These days, Hanyang was spitting out modern rifles and ammunition faster than anyone could have ever imagined, and they had their share of customers.
There was the NRA and the Marines, of course, but Japan, Korea, Siam,, and even the Philippines were interested in arming their soldiers with modern weaponry.
The Ottomans, France and Russia had shown some interest as well, though they would be at the back of the line due to not being members of the Nanjing Agreement.
Not yet, anyways. Constantinople, Petrograd, and Paris were all at least somewhat interested, and they all had their reasons.
Paris was possibly the most ideologically-motivated, if Marty's reports were to be believed. No, he still couldn't believe that the fucking socialists were the ones who aligned with them the most on ideology.
That will never stop being funny to me.
Besides the military advantages of having an ally with modern weaponry, cooperation over Indochina, and providing a large market for technology, the French had a bit of a falling out with the English ever since the socialists came to power.
Sure, the Entente Cordiale still existed on paper, but the French (like the Japanese) had their reasons not to trust the British.
In contrast, the Russians and Ottomans partnered with China for more pragmatic reasons. Sure, all three nations were liberal to varying degrees and they all had a chip on their soldiers about being the "Sick Man" of their regions.
But at the same time, Petrograd and Constantinople presided over largely-underdeveloped countries, and they wanted to repeat what many were calling the "Chinese Economic Miracle" in their own countries.
Weapons and equipment were a part of that process, of course. Both nations were threatened by Central Europe, so they needed all the help they could get.
Planes were off the table for all three of them. Sure, they could probably train their three prospective allies to fly them, but China needed as many multi-roles as they could get their hands on right now.
Instead, exports would be limited to small arms, artillery, and vehicles. Sure, they would be a step down from anything the Chinese had, but they were a hell of a lot better than anything those three could produce.
Plus, it's not like a Humvee or a five ton truck is some technological marvel. Hell, even our Hueys are better than anything they have right now.
It would take at least a few years, of course, but China could produce enough equipment for themselves, their allies, and their (hopefully) soon-to-be allies.
The Russians using an AR-pattern rifle is going to be the most cursed thing I've seen so far, isn't it?
German Embassy, London, United Kingdom, 28 June 1918
As a military attache to London, Major von Lettow-Vorbeck had been disappointed. He wanted to be in the field, not pushing papers behind a desk!
Still, he had his responsibilities, and if that meant accepting mysterious packages from the British, then so be it.
It was more than a bit surprising, now that he thought about it. Over the span of a few years Germany and Britain had gone from naval rivals to allies of necessity.
That necessity, of course, being China. He'd seen firsthand the Chinese efficiency and military strength in mobile warfare, and he had compiled a report upon his return.
That report, which discussed the German strategy for fighting the Chinese, could be summarized in a single word.
"Don't."
The Chinese outgunned them, outpaced them, and if the stories were to be believed the Chinese out-produced them on every front, too.
They needed something to level the playing field. Anything, if he was being honest.
And when he looked at the files he had received from the British, he knew full well that it was a chance of leveling the playing field, if ever so slight.
This was one such means. Referred to as the "L1 Rifle" by the British, it was similar to the Chinese rifles in many ways.
The key difference, however, was the larger caliber.
Exactly how the British had acquired this information was up for debate, but the Lieutenant Colonel believed they had outright printed the blueprints at their embassy and had them shipped to London.
It was what he had done when he was stationed at the Embassy in Nanjing, after all.
The rifles, however, were just one design in the documents he had been given. After that came so many more, from pistols to panzers to aircraft, of all things.
Now, he had seen aircraft firsthand, from Richtofen's multi-winged planes to the Chinese jets. This, however, was something in between the two.
Built with an aluminium frame and a steel exterior, these planes were more advanced than anything he had seen outside of China.
Their key asset, however, was the sheer simplicity of producing them, given their relatively less-complicated design.
They weren't any match for a fighter jet, but they could shoot anything less than that out of the sky.
The British hadn't had the decency to provide prototypes, of course, but he doubted they would need them. Mauser and Fokkers would be having a field day once they got their hands on these.
And if rumors were to be believed, so would Vienna and (unfortunately) Rome.
These weren't wunderwaffe, and he knew better than to rely on such mythical technology. What these were was a whole set of weapons that would help them level the playing field, if ever-so-slightly.
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WyrmofFrost
One whose Muse delights in being coy
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So by blueprints printed from embassies do you mean stuff with the actual design schema and production machinery specs for stuff or just stats off of wikipedia and shit because those are two different things. I know there needs to be something interesting of an opposition but there is only so much SOD I can have.
ChrisProvidence
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The former, likely gathered through internet access and then reverse-engineered and shared.
Which, now that I think about it, is Taiwan's greatest weakness, since they can't really police everyone's internet usage.
Let's take the FAL, for example. British agents show up, access the internet, and print out as many diagrams as they can find on the internet.
Those diagrams and blueprints get sent to London, where engineers at RSAF Enfield who develop their own version of it after months of experimentation.
Then, once the British feel they are ready enough, they send the reverse-engineered blueprints to their newfound allies so they too can develop it.
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ChrisProvidence
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As for the rest of this sidestory…
Well, Blackshard had a good point that running out of ammo was a very serious threat for the Chinese the first time around.
This is a problem that the brass were well aware of.
So the logical conclusion is to have a stupidly-large amount of weapons this time around, just in case something else weird happens.
We're talking all kinda of contingencies, be it a World War, another general trying to become Emperor, a second Taiping Rebellion, a zombie apocalypse, aliens show up or their country getting teleported again.
Whatever happens, they won't be running out of ammo this time around.
Or rice.
Well, Blackshard had a good point that running out of ammo was a very serious threat for the Chinese the first time around.
This is a problem that the brass were well aware of.
So the logical conclusion is to have a stupidly-large amount of weapons this time around, just in case something else weird happens.
We're talking all kinda of contingencies, be it a World War, another general trying to become Emperor, a second Taiping Rebellion, a zombie apocalypse, aliens show up or their country getting teleported again.
Whatever happens, they won't be running out of ammo this time around.
Or rice.
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Truly, the greatest tragedy any Asian could suffer - running out of rice.
ChrisProvidence
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This is New China's greatest strength. Seriously.
Mechanized agriculture and mass-produced fertilizers helped China and their allies make the Third Agricultural Revolution happen half a century earlier.
Food insecurity is a thing of the past in China by 1918, and that means millions will not starve to death.
That, and it gives them a stupid amount of soft power.
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Crayz9000
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Since the main advantage of hydrogen is greater lifting power, just use them for air freight. Then the only crew you need to worry about protecting are the pilot and co-pilot, who should be okay as long as they have a safe way to bail out. And maybe some metalized nomex flight suits just in case.
Also I'm pretty sure that there would be no small number of mythbusters fans willing to stage a scale model recreation of the Hindenburg disaster for the benefit of the Germans, just to show them why using hydrogen for passengers is a bad idea.
Edit: On further reflection, I'm not sure how to get around the problem of loading and unloading cargo safely with a hydrogen airship, so that ground side personnel don't have to be put at risk. After all, the Hindenburg disaster happened when it was moored.
If they're sticking with established rigid or semirigid zeppelin designs, maybe fitting it with the sort of cargo attachment system used by Sikorsky S-64 Skycranes would work. Descend, grapple container(s), ascend.
Edit 2: Turns out the Germans should already be aware of the risks. LZ-10 broke free from its moorings in 1912 and was destroyed by fire in almost exactly the same manner as the Hindenburg later was.
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Fellow Human
Verified Roado Rolla
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Chapter 52: A Tale of Four Sermons
ChrisProvidence
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Saint Oscar Romero Church, Kaohsiung, Taiwan, Republic of China, 20 July 1918
"It's been over seven years," the priest said through the speakers, "Seven years since God sent us back in time."
And in those seven years, he had built his own congregation from an assortment of Catholics, be they converts, locals, or tourists sent back in time with them.
"It's been hard, I know, but we all have stuck together and rebuilt our lives. Though we have lost family and loved ones, our faith has helped us get through this."
"At the same time, I still ask myself why this had to happen. I'll be honest, I've gotten this question so many times over the years, and I still don't have an answer."
"As a scientist, I could say it's some fluctuation in spacetime that sent us back. Should this be the case, I guess we could argue that this is all part of the 'Hands-Off' theory of God, in the sense that He values Free Will above all else and largely doesn't interfere with our world."
"If that's the case, then life goes on. And it has gone on. In all these years, I've done my share of weddings and baptisms, and so many of you have rebuilt your lives in our new home."
Of all things, that was what he was most proud of. So many of these people, be they his former students, friends, and recent converts, were in the crowd today, along with their families.
Sure, not all of their spouses were even Catholic, but the fact that they were even here warmed his heart.
"Or, maybe God had a reason to send us back in time. If that's the case, I don't know what it is, but I'm always open to answers."
With this, he turned to the statue of Jesus on the altar, and that got a few laughs out of the crowd.
"Yeah, He's not talking."
That got even more laughs out of the congregation.
"I don't know what His plan is. But, if I am being completely honest, I don't think our mission's changed."
"We're still supposed to be good people and set good examples. We're supposed to spread the Word of God through our kindness and goodness to one another, just as He once did all those years ago."
"Does it matter whether we're doing this in 2028 or 1918? Goodness, kindness, and decency (and I'm not talking about the backhanded stuff you used to see on the internet) are universal goods that resonate just as much with us from the future as they do with all of us who came from the past."
"We can talk about Revelations, Raptures, and Divine Tests, but our duty to spread the Word of God through goodness and kindness have not changed, no matter what has happened."
"I know, I know, 'I don't know' isn't the best answer in the world. But it's an honest one, if nothing else."
Location Unknown, Salem, Oregon, United States of America, 1 September 1918
"I know what this is!" bellowed the Pastor Locke from his pulpit. "It is a warning from God! Nothing less than that!"
"Blacks and whites living with one another? The Polish and Irish living alongside us Anglo-Saxons?! Catholics and Protestants living alongside one another?"
"The world of the future is little more than a modern Sodom and Gomorrah of degeneracy where people have turned away from God and towards fornication with one another!"
"It is a sign of their moral decay that so many are poor and suffering, for they have turned away from God himself! That is the world that awaits us if we do not secure an existence for ourselves and our children!"
"It is a world of degeneracy, of weakness and impurity brought forth by those who claim to worship Christ but take orders either from Rome or Jerusalem!"
"And here we are, seen as outcasts for what we have said for our safety, for the protection of America's innocence against those who would rape and pervert her virgin innocence!"
"Tell me, would you want your daughter to marry a negro. For your beautiful girl to give birth to a mutt?"
The woman shook her head quietly.
"Or would you, sir," he said to one of the men in the front row, "Would you want your children to be taught the lies and slander of these so-called 'scientists' that God did not create the Earth in seven days?"
"Well no, I wouldn't!"
"Then it is all the more reason that we take a stand today to protect America. This Christian nation of ours is worth fighting for, even if our so-called 'leaders' in Washington refuse to fight for her.
"Our enemies are cowards, with how they sneakily try to infect our society. How they work in the shadows to pervert us and turn us against one another, enraging us into doing the Devil's work!"
"These cowards are the greatest threat to the existence of the American people! Not just the Negro, but the Socialist, the Progressive, the Chinaman, the Catholic, and the Jew as well! All of them seek nothing more than to see us weakened and feeble!"
"Then it is our mission to fight against these great odds and rid ourselves of these people. Don't get me wrong, brothers and sisters, there will be many who say what we are doing is 'immoral' or 'wicked.'"
To them I say to get out of our way. For just as God knows us as his beloved children, we know God! He sees us, just as well as he knows us, and he knows we are right in our cause!"
"And when that Judgement Day finally comes, we will be vindicated, for Christ himself will look upon us in approval while the naysayers look on in horror and regret at their decision to not join us in our heavenly struggle to do the work of our god!"
East Harlem Presbyterian Church, New York City, New York, United States of America, 30 October 1918
"The future?" Reverend Thomas said to the crowd, "It is many things. Promising and Discouraging all at once, depending on where you look."
At least that was what he could tell from his own readings. Here was a time when there was more food than necessary, yet people still went hungry in America.
"But it is the sheer capacity for progress in a hundred years that has amazed me the most. To think that in such a short period of time, Italian-Americans and Irish-Americans would be seen as, well, Americans. Or to think that Americans of different races could marry one another without any restriction."
"It is beautiful. Wouldn't you say so?"
Sure enough, many of his Italian-American congregation nodded their heads.
"However, the future is not a utopia, not should we think of it as such. Not when so many are as wealthy as the robber barons of our own time, with so many more willing to justify this greed and suffering with the claims lf hard work."
"If I am honest," the young reverend admitted, "It saddens me. There is so much potential for our future, but so much of it is wasted on the evils of Greed, Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Sloth, Wrath, and Lust for power."
"Christ Himself could feed an entire crowd with a handful of loaves and fishes, yet the people of the future still had millions starving around the world."
"What saddens me more, my neighbors," he continued, using a phrase from a future Presbyterian minister, "is how so many use Christ Himself to justify these injustices. The Bible is a beautiful book that we can learn from, but I do not think that we should pick our favorite verses to justify our shortcomings."
"If anything, I would argue that we ought to use the Bible to be as close to Christ in faith and action as we can be."
"Prayer is all well and good. After all, I am a reverend." A few people nodded to that. "But as a Christian philosopher once said, 'You cannot eat Christ… Unless you are Catholic, of course."
Reverend Thomas looked to see his congregation smile at the joke. As funny as he thought it was, he had a point to it all.
A point that his now-engaged congregation seemed to have understood.
"That is the crux of this, I believe," he said to them. "Faith and Action. Through good works we can achieve the goodness of that future. Through our faith, we can guide ourselves away from making the same mistakes."
"A better future is possible," he surmised, before pausing to take a breath. "But if we want to live in that better world, then we will need to work hard for it. It will not be easy, I am afraid, but a future where all are welcome at the table of plenty is a future worth working towards."
First Methodist Church, Nashville, Tennessee, United States of America, 31 December 1918
"As our Lord and Savior once said, 'Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven," the preacher began. Sure enough, all the assembled were at least familiar with those words. "Then if that is the case, then would it not mean that this is the key to Christ's return?"
The people looked on at him with confused faces, but at least they were not enraged.
"As He said, 'On Earth as it is in Heaven.' Would this not mean that for Christ to return, His will must be done on Earth as it is in Heaven?"
Now the people nodded, which meant he was at least making some sense to them.
"And what is Heaven? It is a place of paradise, where there is no suffering. A home where nobody is homeless, with a table where nobody is hungry, led by a Christ who can heal the sick for no money. A perfect place to spend an eternity, wouldn't you say?"
"This, of course, is all God's will, isn't it. After all, He is the ruler of Heaven, so all of this would be through his doing. Does that make sense?"
Again, the crowd nodded, encouraging him to move on to his next point.
"Then if that is the case, wouldn't it mean that Christ will not return until we do on Earth as it is in Heaven? That is, an Earth free of sickness, homelessness, and starvation. A world of peace and love, just as Heaven will be upon our arrival."
"My brothers and sisters," he said to the congregation. These were bold words, of course, seeing that this was a congregation of black and white people, though he hardly cared. After all, he doubted Christ would, either. "This is our mission. If we are to bring forth the return of Christ, Our Lord and Savior, then we must do unto Earth as the Father has already done in Heaven."
"Why else would He send back an entire island's worth of technology back to our time, if not to help us achieve this? With this technology, God has given us the means to house and feed the world, just as we have the means to wipe out the perfidious diseases that have killed so many of our brothers and sisters."
"Only then will Christ return to Earth. Only then will our work be done, and we may ascend to Heaven just as He had done all those years ago."
"Now, I know that there are those who have their own questions. Those who would disregard the Lord's own words and ask, 'What if you are wrong?'"
"To them I ask them to look in the Bible and see how God is ever-present, ever-testing us. Be it through Christ, Solomon, Joseph, Abraham, or even Sodom and Gomorrah, the Lord is always looking upon us and testing our character to see if we are as genuine in action as we are in faith."
"To them who would discourage us from acting with goodness and kindness with this kind of question, I have only one question for them."
"What if you are wrong?"
"It's been over seven years," the priest said through the speakers, "Seven years since God sent us back in time."
And in those seven years, he had built his own congregation from an assortment of Catholics, be they converts, locals, or tourists sent back in time with them.
"It's been hard, I know, but we all have stuck together and rebuilt our lives. Though we have lost family and loved ones, our faith has helped us get through this."
"At the same time, I still ask myself why this had to happen. I'll be honest, I've gotten this question so many times over the years, and I still don't have an answer."
"As a scientist, I could say it's some fluctuation in spacetime that sent us back. Should this be the case, I guess we could argue that this is all part of the 'Hands-Off' theory of God, in the sense that He values Free Will above all else and largely doesn't interfere with our world."
"If that's the case, then life goes on. And it has gone on. In all these years, I've done my share of weddings and baptisms, and so many of you have rebuilt your lives in our new home."
Of all things, that was what he was most proud of. So many of these people, be they his former students, friends, and recent converts, were in the crowd today, along with their families.
Sure, not all of their spouses were even Catholic, but the fact that they were even here warmed his heart.
"Or, maybe God had a reason to send us back in time. If that's the case, I don't know what it is, but I'm always open to answers."
With this, he turned to the statue of Jesus on the altar, and that got a few laughs out of the crowd.
"Yeah, He's not talking."
That got even more laughs out of the congregation.
"I don't know what His plan is. But, if I am being completely honest, I don't think our mission's changed."
"We're still supposed to be good people and set good examples. We're supposed to spread the Word of God through our kindness and goodness to one another, just as He once did all those years ago."
"Does it matter whether we're doing this in 2028 or 1918? Goodness, kindness, and decency (and I'm not talking about the backhanded stuff you used to see on the internet) are universal goods that resonate just as much with us from the future as they do with all of us who came from the past."
"We can talk about Revelations, Raptures, and Divine Tests, but our duty to spread the Word of God through goodness and kindness have not changed, no matter what has happened."
"I know, I know, 'I don't know' isn't the best answer in the world. But it's an honest one, if nothing else."
Location Unknown, Salem, Oregon, United States of America, 1 September 1918
"I know what this is!" bellowed the Pastor Locke from his pulpit. "It is a warning from God! Nothing less than that!"
"Blacks and whites living with one another? The Polish and Irish living alongside us Anglo-Saxons?! Catholics and Protestants living alongside one another?"
"The world of the future is little more than a modern Sodom and Gomorrah of degeneracy where people have turned away from God and towards fornication with one another!"
"It is a sign of their moral decay that so many are poor and suffering, for they have turned away from God himself! That is the world that awaits us if we do not secure an existence for ourselves and our children!"
"It is a world of degeneracy, of weakness and impurity brought forth by those who claim to worship Christ but take orders either from Rome or Jerusalem!"
"And here we are, seen as outcasts for what we have said for our safety, for the protection of America's innocence against those who would rape and pervert her virgin innocence!"
"Tell me, would you want your daughter to marry a negro. For your beautiful girl to give birth to a mutt?"
The woman shook her head quietly.
"Or would you, sir," he said to one of the men in the front row, "Would you want your children to be taught the lies and slander of these so-called 'scientists' that God did not create the Earth in seven days?"
"Well no, I wouldn't!"
"Then it is all the more reason that we take a stand today to protect America. This Christian nation of ours is worth fighting for, even if our so-called 'leaders' in Washington refuse to fight for her.
"Our enemies are cowards, with how they sneakily try to infect our society. How they work in the shadows to pervert us and turn us against one another, enraging us into doing the Devil's work!"
"These cowards are the greatest threat to the existence of the American people! Not just the Negro, but the Socialist, the Progressive, the Chinaman, the Catholic, and the Jew as well! All of them seek nothing more than to see us weakened and feeble!"
"Then it is our mission to fight against these great odds and rid ourselves of these people. Don't get me wrong, brothers and sisters, there will be many who say what we are doing is 'immoral' or 'wicked.'"
To them I say to get out of our way. For just as God knows us as his beloved children, we know God! He sees us, just as well as he knows us, and he knows we are right in our cause!"
"And when that Judgement Day finally comes, we will be vindicated, for Christ himself will look upon us in approval while the naysayers look on in horror and regret at their decision to not join us in our heavenly struggle to do the work of our god!"
East Harlem Presbyterian Church, New York City, New York, United States of America, 30 October 1918
"The future?" Reverend Thomas said to the crowd, "It is many things. Promising and Discouraging all at once, depending on where you look."
At least that was what he could tell from his own readings. Here was a time when there was more food than necessary, yet people still went hungry in America.
"But it is the sheer capacity for progress in a hundred years that has amazed me the most. To think that in such a short period of time, Italian-Americans and Irish-Americans would be seen as, well, Americans. Or to think that Americans of different races could marry one another without any restriction."
"It is beautiful. Wouldn't you say so?"
Sure enough, many of his Italian-American congregation nodded their heads.
"However, the future is not a utopia, not should we think of it as such. Not when so many are as wealthy as the robber barons of our own time, with so many more willing to justify this greed and suffering with the claims lf hard work."
"If I am honest," the young reverend admitted, "It saddens me. There is so much potential for our future, but so much of it is wasted on the evils of Greed, Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Sloth, Wrath, and Lust for power."
"Christ Himself could feed an entire crowd with a handful of loaves and fishes, yet the people of the future still had millions starving around the world."
"What saddens me more, my neighbors," he continued, using a phrase from a future Presbyterian minister, "is how so many use Christ Himself to justify these injustices. The Bible is a beautiful book that we can learn from, but I do not think that we should pick our favorite verses to justify our shortcomings."
"If anything, I would argue that we ought to use the Bible to be as close to Christ in faith and action as we can be."
"Prayer is all well and good. After all, I am a reverend." A few people nodded to that. "But as a Christian philosopher once said, 'You cannot eat Christ… Unless you are Catholic, of course."
Reverend Thomas looked to see his congregation smile at the joke. As funny as he thought it was, he had a point to it all.
A point that his now-engaged congregation seemed to have understood.
"That is the crux of this, I believe," he said to them. "Faith and Action. Through good works we can achieve the goodness of that future. Through our faith, we can guide ourselves away from making the same mistakes."
"A better future is possible," he surmised, before pausing to take a breath. "But if we want to live in that better world, then we will need to work hard for it. It will not be easy, I am afraid, but a future where all are welcome at the table of plenty is a future worth working towards."
First Methodist Church, Nashville, Tennessee, United States of America, 31 December 1918
"As our Lord and Savior once said, 'Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven," the preacher began. Sure enough, all the assembled were at least familiar with those words. "Then if that is the case, then would it not mean that this is the key to Christ's return?"
The people looked on at him with confused faces, but at least they were not enraged.
"As He said, 'On Earth as it is in Heaven.' Would this not mean that for Christ to return, His will must be done on Earth as it is in Heaven?"
Now the people nodded, which meant he was at least making some sense to them.
"And what is Heaven? It is a place of paradise, where there is no suffering. A home where nobody is homeless, with a table where nobody is hungry, led by a Christ who can heal the sick for no money. A perfect place to spend an eternity, wouldn't you say?"
"This, of course, is all God's will, isn't it. After all, He is the ruler of Heaven, so all of this would be through his doing. Does that make sense?"
Again, the crowd nodded, encouraging him to move on to his next point.
"Then if that is the case, wouldn't it mean that Christ will not return until we do on Earth as it is in Heaven? That is, an Earth free of sickness, homelessness, and starvation. A world of peace and love, just as Heaven will be upon our arrival."
"My brothers and sisters," he said to the congregation. These were bold words, of course, seeing that this was a congregation of black and white people, though he hardly cared. After all, he doubted Christ would, either. "This is our mission. If we are to bring forth the return of Christ, Our Lord and Savior, then we must do unto Earth as the Father has already done in Heaven."
"Why else would He send back an entire island's worth of technology back to our time, if not to help us achieve this? With this technology, God has given us the means to house and feed the world, just as we have the means to wipe out the perfidious diseases that have killed so many of our brothers and sisters."
"Only then will Christ return to Earth. Only then will our work be done, and we may ascend to Heaven just as He had done all those years ago."
"Now, I know that there are those who have their own questions. Those who would disregard the Lord's own words and ask, 'What if you are wrong?'"
"To them I ask them to look in the Bible and see how God is ever-present, ever-testing us. Be it through Christ, Solomon, Joseph, Abraham, or even Sodom and Gomorrah, the Lord is always looking upon us and testing our character to see if we are as genuine in action as we are in faith."
"To them who would discourage us from acting with goodness and kindness with this kind of question, I have only one question for them."
"What if you are wrong?"
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ChrisProvidence
Time Traveling Unequal Treaty Destroyer
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Pick Your Fighter:
•Optimistic Nihilist Uptimer Jesuit priest
•Racist asshole whose rhetoric is inspired by the song, "Jesus He Knows Me" by Genesis
•Literally Norman Thomas Progressive socialist inspired by the future
•A movement that actually existed in the early 1900s. Apparently they thought they had to make Heaven on Earth so Jesus would come back
•Optimistic Nihilist Uptimer Jesuit priest
•Racist asshole whose rhetoric is inspired by the song, "Jesus He Knows Me" by Genesis
•
•A movement that actually existed in the early 1900s. Apparently they thought they had to make Heaven on Earth so Jesus would come back
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ChrisProvidence
Time Traveling Unequal Treaty Destroyer
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, this group (known in the story as "Testers"), is inspired by a movement that happened in our timeline, but I can't find the old article.
Instead of American Evangelicalism with its Prosperity Gospel and trying to make the Rapture happen, these guys are basically Christian socialists who went in the complete and opposite direction and believe everything is a test from God to prove their faith by working to bring Jesus back by creating a world without poverty or suffering through future tech.
Which in practice means you have a bunch of friendly socialist Protestants running around building factories and giving out food to the poor.
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Tabula Rasa
ChrisProvidence
Time Traveling Unequal Treaty Destroyer
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As he exited the Haitian consulate in Paris, Foreign Minister Jean Jaures did not expect to have gotten most of what he wanted.
France's relation with Haiti was… complicated, to say the least. Here was a nation that had basically blackmailed its former colony into paying reparations for slavery.
Reparations which, until recently, had been choking the island nation into a vicious cycle of poverty and corruption. One which they could have never hoped to escape when they were forced to give France such a steep discount.
The Briand government had, of course, considered forgiving the debt wholesale, but the Senate had outright refused to even consider it. The Bank of France had said as such, what with their Governor still being from the old administration.
In short, the debts were to be continued, and both Haiti and the SFIO would be forced to deal with it.
That is, however, until the Chinese had decided to outright take on the debt themselves.
"A drop in the bucket," was how the Chinese ambassador had described it when the Governor of the Bank of France had pointed out the costs. "Besides, it is not as if we will pay it all at once."
Truth be told, nobody had expected this. Neither the Haitians, nor the Left Bloc, nor even the Bank of France themselves had thought that China, of all places, would be willing to pay off the debt over a period of years.
Nor were the Americans, who were honestly dumbstruck at the prospect. Now, they would be annoyed, had the Chinese not come to them with an offer.
In short, a Sino-American joint company would be investing heavily in Haiti's energy and mining sectors. Workers would be trained, while modern machinery would be brought it.
The profits, for their part, would be split three ways, with the Haitians receiving a third, the Americans receiving a third, and the Chinese receiving the last third.
It was a bold plan, but a welcome one nonetheless when the nation was otherwise a debt-stricken backwater. Port-au-Prince had practically leapt at the offer when the consul sent it to them.
As far as things went, this was one of the unique scenarios where everyone seemed to win. America maintained its influence, China gained a new source of copper, Haiti had its debts relieved, and the French managed to "complete" another campaign promise.
Even the Bank of France seemed content with the money they were owed, though they did sour on the end to the Unequal Treaty with Haiti.
If anything, the only ones who could complain were those who directly profited from the Unequal Treaty with Haiti, and Jaures paid little mind to them.
After all, those importers and merchants were already exploiting the global proletariat, and these were people who didn't like the Left Bloc in the first place.
Perhaps it has something to do with us being socialists. Capitalists tend to not like us.
China notwithstanding, of course.
He never knew how it had happened, yet somehow China, one of the most capitalist countries in the world, was one of their closest allies.
Then again, Jaures was not about to turn down an offer of help. Especially one that costed him absolutely nothing.
France's relation with Haiti was… complicated, to say the least. Here was a nation that had basically blackmailed its former colony into paying reparations for slavery.
Reparations which, until recently, had been choking the island nation into a vicious cycle of poverty and corruption. One which they could have never hoped to escape when they were forced to give France such a steep discount.
The Briand government had, of course, considered forgiving the debt wholesale, but the Senate had outright refused to even consider it. The Bank of France had said as such, what with their Governor still being from the old administration.
In short, the debts were to be continued, and both Haiti and the SFIO would be forced to deal with it.
That is, however, until the Chinese had decided to outright take on the debt themselves.
"A drop in the bucket," was how the Chinese ambassador had described it when the Governor of the Bank of France had pointed out the costs. "Besides, it is not as if we will pay it all at once."
Truth be told, nobody had expected this. Neither the Haitians, nor the Left Bloc, nor even the Bank of France themselves had thought that China, of all places, would be willing to pay off the debt over a period of years.
Nor were the Americans, who were honestly dumbstruck at the prospect. Now, they would be annoyed, had the Chinese not come to them with an offer.
In short, a Sino-American joint company would be investing heavily in Haiti's energy and mining sectors. Workers would be trained, while modern machinery would be brought it.
The profits, for their part, would be split three ways, with the Haitians receiving a third, the Americans receiving a third, and the Chinese receiving the last third.
It was a bold plan, but a welcome one nonetheless when the nation was otherwise a debt-stricken backwater. Port-au-Prince had practically leapt at the offer when the consul sent it to them.
As far as things went, this was one of the unique scenarios where everyone seemed to win. America maintained its influence, China gained a new source of copper, Haiti had its debts relieved, and the French managed to "complete" another campaign promise.
Even the Bank of France seemed content with the money they were owed, though they did sour on the end to the Unequal Treaty with Haiti.
If anything, the only ones who could complain were those who directly profited from the Unequal Treaty with Haiti, and Jaures paid little mind to them.
After all, those importers and merchants were already exploiting the global proletariat, and these were people who didn't like the Left Bloc in the first place.
Perhaps it has something to do with us being socialists. Capitalists tend to not like us.
China notwithstanding, of course.
He never knew how it had happened, yet somehow China, one of the most capitalist countries in the world, was one of their closest allies.
Then again, Jaures was not about to turn down an offer of help. Especially one that costed him absolutely nothing.
Look like another win-win situation. I remember there are some interesting tech that have potential here and some other topic, hope it give idea (not sure I share this before):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hv2dsVkA38
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMSBt0Rj368
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cA9bZRHpZE
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnJLT8wFyhY
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVdH_dYlVB8
The Ship That Flew: What Happened To Plainview?
Helicopter Or Plane? The Revolutionary Rotodyne
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hv2dsVkA38
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMSBt0Rj368
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cA9bZRHpZE
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnJLT8wFyhY
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVdH_dYlVB8
The Ship That Flew: What Happened To Plainview?
Helicopter Or Plane? The Revolutionary Rotodyne
- Location
- San Francisco
China buying the haitian debt is pretty cool. Plus, they absolutely can afford it at this point. They're now the richest nation on earth again (they have been at many points throughout history. Even rome had a debt with china at its height), so they shouldn't be afraid to swing their weight around to smash unequal treaties.
Also, I wonder if an influx of buddhist migrants to the Ottoman could spark the sudden emergence of zen-suffism. That would be thoroughly amusing.
Also, I wonder if an influx of buddhist migrants to the Ottoman could spark the sudden emergence of zen-suffism. That would be thoroughly amusing.
Also, how did the Chinese send a consul to Haiti? Did they go the long way around?
How will the downtimer Americans respond to the school shootings of uptime America? Will that be the final push to bring in some gun regulations?
How will the downtimer Americans respond to the school shootings of uptime America? Will that be the final push to bring in some gun regulations?
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- Location
- San Francisco
Check the history of the NRA. Also the marketing strategies of major gun companies. If America is smart, they'll push to make gun ownership contingent on that part of the 2nd amendment which references a 'well organized militia'. Or a liscensing scheme. The whole idea of mental health though is still very vague at this point. Asylums are basically torture chambers where the nonconformant in society are abused into some semblance of functionality. So attaching that to the future gun issue will also cause problems.
ChrisProvidence
Time Traveling Unequal Treaty Destroyer
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yup.
Now that I think about it, China's allies are basically everyone who was either the "Sick Man of ______" or they got screwed over by colonialism.
Plus the French and Americans, but that's more due to shared values.
The Right of Privacy
ChrisProvidence
Time Traveling Unequal Treaty Destroyer
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Knowledge of the future was a key asset, and that went for everyone.
Downtimer, Uptimer, it didn't matter. Knowing the future allowed people to know what to do in the present.
It started out with simple things. A story would get out from Taiwan about American society, just as so many had before. Some wowed the people, while others disturbed them greatly.
This, of course, fell into the latter. How couldn't it, when this was the PATRIOT Act we were talking about.
Sure, the average American understood law enforcement, and the purpose they served. What they didn't like, however, was how pervasive the surveillance state was in the future.
A warrant was all well and good, but the idea that the Federal Government could outright spy on their own people?
It shocked and disgusted almost everyone, be they Progressive or Conservative, Democrat or Republican, Black or Brown or White.
Quite frankly, nobody liked the idea of Washington spying on their own people. And that sentiment was as alive and well in Washington as it was in California, Florida, or Massachusetts.
This, of course, had led to politicians all across the spectrum proposing their own forms of legislation to ensure the right to privacy, but that was where the common ground ended.
Sure, nobody wanted the Federal Government to spy on them, but many still knew full well that the state needed at least some way to deal with domestic and foreign threats.
Debate had gone back and forth in the halls of Congress, until the White House had finally come up with a compromise:
People would be guaranteed the Right of Privacy, so long as a warrant is not issued.
In hindsight, it seemed like the most efficient answer. After all, unlawful search and seizure had been outright prohibited in the Bill of Rights. This was only the logical conclusion of it all.
And so it went before Congress, where an outright miracle had occurred: People had actually agreed with one another!
And as most proposed amendments do, they went to the states, where they similarly agreed with one another on the sentiment, even if it was for different reasons.
This time, there would be no gambits nor poison pills. Just the Nineteenth Amendment (commonly known as the Right to Privacy) passing in record time.
Of course, there would be some concessions. After all, this was a constitutional amendment that didn't prohibit the formation of a foreign intelligence agency. Only that it placed limits on said agency, so that the rights of its own people would be protected.
Which was a fancy way of saying that the Office of Strategic Services was formed in February of 1919. While several different branches had founded their own ad-hoc operations, this centralized the agency under one authority.
In practice, the United States was developing their own version of the Military Intelligence Bureau, with assistance from their Chinese counterparts.
For all intents and purposes, it was the Central Intelligence Agency born anew. Except this time, there would be enough active oversight to ensure that the same mistakes would not be made.
That, and Roosevelt had refused to call it the Central Intelligence Agency. In his words, he believed that if they were to create a new intelligence agency, then that new agency needed a new name.
In all likelihood, he'd done it in an effort to not "Accidentally piss off all of Latin America," as Deputy Director William Donovan had put it.
Downtimer, Uptimer, it didn't matter. Knowing the future allowed people to know what to do in the present.
It started out with simple things. A story would get out from Taiwan about American society, just as so many had before. Some wowed the people, while others disturbed them greatly.
This, of course, fell into the latter. How couldn't it, when this was the PATRIOT Act we were talking about.
Sure, the average American understood law enforcement, and the purpose they served. What they didn't like, however, was how pervasive the surveillance state was in the future.
A warrant was all well and good, but the idea that the Federal Government could outright spy on their own people?
It shocked and disgusted almost everyone, be they Progressive or Conservative, Democrat or Republican, Black or Brown or White.
Quite frankly, nobody liked the idea of Washington spying on their own people. And that sentiment was as alive and well in Washington as it was in California, Florida, or Massachusetts.
This, of course, had led to politicians all across the spectrum proposing their own forms of legislation to ensure the right to privacy, but that was where the common ground ended.
Sure, nobody wanted the Federal Government to spy on them, but many still knew full well that the state needed at least some way to deal with domestic and foreign threats.
Debate had gone back and forth in the halls of Congress, until the White House had finally come up with a compromise:
People would be guaranteed the Right of Privacy, so long as a warrant is not issued.
In hindsight, it seemed like the most efficient answer. After all, unlawful search and seizure had been outright prohibited in the Bill of Rights. This was only the logical conclusion of it all.
And so it went before Congress, where an outright miracle had occurred: People had actually agreed with one another!
And as most proposed amendments do, they went to the states, where they similarly agreed with one another on the sentiment, even if it was for different reasons.
This time, there would be no gambits nor poison pills. Just the Nineteenth Amendment (commonly known as the Right to Privacy) passing in record time.
Of course, there would be some concessions. After all, this was a constitutional amendment that didn't prohibit the formation of a foreign intelligence agency. Only that it placed limits on said agency, so that the rights of its own people would be protected.
Which was a fancy way of saying that the Office of Strategic Services was formed in February of 1919. While several different branches had founded their own ad-hoc operations, this centralized the agency under one authority.
In practice, the United States was developing their own version of the Military Intelligence Bureau, with assistance from their Chinese counterparts.
For all intents and purposes, it was the Central Intelligence Agency born anew. Except this time, there would be enough active oversight to ensure that the same mistakes would not be made.
That, and Roosevelt had refused to call it the Central Intelligence Agency. In his words, he believed that if they were to create a new intelligence agency, then that new agency needed a new name.
In all likelihood, he'd done it in an effort to not "Accidentally piss off all of Latin America," as Deputy Director William Donovan had put it.
ChrisProvidence
Time Traveling Unequal Treaty Destroyer
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The OSS' mission is to keep the foreign spies out, the Latinos on good terms, the Chinese from literally buying everything, and the British on their side of the Canadian border.
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Crayz9000
Deranged Bounty Hunter
- Location
- Improbably superpositioned
Good, if it means keeping the Dulles brothers from recruiting war criminals to run clandestine experiments.
Although, speaking of which, I suspect the MIB was simultaneously hyperventilating (embedded CIA liaisons) and breathing a sigh of relief (everyone else) after the Flash or whatever they're calling it...