A Second Sunrise: Taiwan of 2020 Sent Back to 1911

What would be a good name for the rewrite?

  • Children of Heaven

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • A Hundred Years' Difference

    Votes: 6 60.0%
  • Sun and Stars

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • The Second Sunrise

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • (Just call it Second Sunrise but make sure nobody refers to it as "SS")

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .
I'm surprised there's no mention of doomsday cults or certain baptist sects trying to weave anti-asian sentiment into their preaching. The idea of an island from the future challenges the 'natural order', or can be spun as doing such by any bad-faith preacher if they're willing. It'll probably pick up more as bits of Lost History leak out, I bet.
 
I'm surprised there's no mention of doomsday cults or certain baptist sects trying to weave anti-asian sentiment into their preaching. The idea of an island from the future challenges the 'natural order', or can be spun as doing such by any bad-faith preacher if they're willing. It'll probably pick up more as bits of Lost History leak out, I bet.

I'm pretty sure some people see it as the Rapture.

Which, all things considered, is probably the saner version when the alternative is people screaming about the Antichrist.
 
The Comments Section: Armchair Copelord
Comments on "Alternate History: What If China Invaded Russia and Japan in 1911?"

ModernSpartan • 8h ago

Should've gone all the way, imo.

cGh ONE • 8h ago

Dude, did you not watch any of the video? It would have sucked ass for everyone involved.

Russia and Japan get devastated, while China has to fight of rebellions all over the damn place.

ModernSpartan • 7h ago

Sounds like pussy talk.

cGh ONE • 7h ago

Eh, bring it up with Clausewitz:

"War is policy by other means."

As far as China was concerned, they got everything they wanted. Got their territory back and the Russians and Japanese to screw off.

Not really any point to go further.

AkiH85 • 7h ago

Not to mention that China might have been at its breaking point.

Sooner or later their enemies would adapt.

As my partner put it, "It was only a matter of time until we stopped rolling 20s and they stopped rolling 1s."

MrNegative • 6h ago

That, and the fact that Russia is really big, while Japan is really densely populated.

Not to mention that the NRA was already spread thin. If anything, the peace treaties allowed China to consolidate itself and become the global economic superpower it is today.

AkiH85 • 4h ago

According to some sources, we would need millions of men to occupy both countries.

And that would be the minimum.

ModernSpartan • 3h ago

Eh, the NRA could fuck up anyone who fought them.

FatherAnarchy • 3h ago

Which would lead to them fighting a guerrilla war against Russia, Japan, and the Qing remnants.

Have you seen what happened when Makhno used to fight Diterikhs' men?

Kept picking them off from the roadside. You really think the Russians, Japanese, and Chinese bandits wouldn't try something similar?

ModernSpartan • 2h ago

Okay, fair enough.

Still wish we'd have another war sometimes.

World's been getting too peaceful, imo.

cGh ONE • 2h ago

Yeah, okay, Sundowner.

MChen93 • 1h ago

Trust me, you don't want that.

ModernSpartan • 1h ago

And why not?

War is where boys become men.

War is the best way to build character. Just look at China!

MCfrom93 • 30m ago

Because actually fighting a war sucks.

Sure, some causes are worth fighting for, and you'll definitely have some friends and memories of the "good times."

But just as much as war can be necessary, it is guaranteed that actually fighting a war sucks ass.

You're often packed together, not showering every day, with crappy food that no amount of hot sauce will improve.

Not to mention the whole fact that people are trying to kill you. Keeps you on edge, sure, but it fucks with your head.

Sure, it's a job. One that I'm really good at.

And yeah, I love the guys I served with like they're my little brothers.

But if I can go the rest pf my life without killing anyone, I'll die a happy man.

ModernSpartan • 20m ago

The hell kind of soldier are you?

MCfrom93 • 10m ago

The kind that's won enough battles to know when to keep my sidearm holstered.
 
How Christianity dealing with Resurgence of Buddhism? Any changes in religious fremework of india?

How Indians dealing with History of India and partition?
 
Why are they explaning shit to an edgelord? Just ignore him or tell him to fuck off.
Sure, you can tell somebody to screw off, but there's a lot more oomph in telling them to screw off and articulating why they should screw off.

It's not for the edgelord. It's for everyone else.

As in, the reader as well as the people in-story.
 
How Christianity dealing with Resurgence of Buddhism? Any changes in religious fremework of india?

Christians are probably ambivalent. Sure, you have some missionaries, but I guess they're deciding, "Oh, that's nice."

How Indians dealing with History of India and partition?

Yeah... you know how the Bengal Partition got seen as "They want to divide us"?

Now it's, "They want to divide us, and they're going to lead us to ruin and decades of war."

Ghadar and the INC are both going to be using it in their rhetoric.

Ghadar with their "United Front" rhetoric, while the INC takes a more balanced, "You are going to get millions of people killed" stance.
 
Last edited:
Chapter 51: Taking Inventory
6th Marine Division Headquarters, Ishigaki, Taiwan, Republic of China, 11 November 1917

To put it mildly, Michael had a lot on his mind right now. Between the Ottoman, American, Siamese, Korean, and Japanese soldiers all coming to the island for training and the fact that his wife was off in Indochina, he'd had his fair share of headaches.

That wasn't to say that he objected to it all. He knew full well that Downtimers were just as capable of learning as Uptimers; Hell, his wife was all the evidence he needed. Not only that, but these guys were learning pretty quickly, to the point that when they went home they'd be able to teach these same skills to their own men and women.

Not was he worried too much about Aki. Sure, she didn't have as much training as he did, but he and Rachel taught her how to shoot and throw a punch. That said, Marty hired her on for her brains, and she was pretty damned good at compiling and analyzing information over in the New Schools and the embassy.

Not only that, but it turned out one of his childhood friends had ended up in Taiwan when the whole Great Journey happened. Sure, Le Van Ninh was a couple years younger than him and Marty, but he'd known the guy since they were Boy Scouts back in Orange County.

Christ, it's like it was only yesterday that we were all kids going on campouts and I was teaching him how to handle a knife and start a fire.

Right. Don't get distracted.

Aki will be fine. Her dad said so himself.


And Michael knew better than to question Mako Higa's judgement. After all, his father-in-law trusted him enough with Aki, so the old man probably had a point when he said that she'd be fine.

Still, Michael worried about her. It was natural, as far as he was concerned, but that hardly made him feel any better about it.

Which, of all things, meant finding ways to keep his mind off of it.

And if that meant playing MVP Baseball 1917 with his men, then so be it.

"You know," Zhou said as his next batter was hit, "Sooner or later you're going to run out of pitchers."

"Eh, this one's a practice game," Fa scoffed, "Doesn't count."

"Yeah, just don't screw up the controllers, guys," Michael told them. "So, everyone has a team, right?"

"Pretty much," Chiu chimed in, "I've got Haishenwai, Fa has Lhasa, and Zhou has Urga. You called the Guardians, right?"

"Yup." Being General had some perks. In this case, it meant he had first dibs on teams. "So, we have people and alternates signed up, right?"

"Pretty much," said the loader-turned-Captain, "Some of the Americans, Japanese, and Koreans wanted in. Couple Ottomans and Siamese, too."

"Looks like we have ourselves a league."

It was a simple thing, if he was being honest. Sure, he could play against the CPU all day, but where was the fun in that? Better to bring out the old PS2 and let the men join an impromptu team-bonding activity. And if their guests wanted to join them, then all the better.

The Americans and Japanese had been the most-interested, what with baseball already being a thing over there. But over time, others ended up joining in to watch and learning how to play.

It wasn't real baseball, of course. But living on a tropical island meant that the diamond was often soaked into mud whenever they wanted to set up a game.

Or at least that was Michael's excuse. Truth be told, he'd rather be playing this than actual baseball because he sucked at playing baseball.

Turns out there isn't much overlap between pitching, fielding, and leading a military campaign. No wonder my position was "Equipment Manager."


Now, that wasn't entirely fair, if he was being honest. After all, he was damn good at fixing and organizing gear. It just also turned out that he sucked at anything more than playing catch.

"We have the schedule planned out, right?" he asked, turning to Zhou. "You did fill that out, right?"

"Ran it through the computer last night, Chen," his former gunner told him. "First game's in a few days."

"Thanks. Really appreciate-"

Once again, his phone rang. Michael looked at it to see his old friend calling him. "One sec."

A couple presses on the screen, and Marty was on the line.

"Hey Mike, you guys haven't been selling stuff on the black market, have you?"

"Hi to you too, Marty. And no. What, did somebody start selling bayonets and swords on ebay?"

"Nah. Apparently we have intel saying that old Qing rifles are showing up all over the place."

"Dunno man. Wish I could help with you, but we're kinda busy over here."

"Yeah, I heard. Anyways, wanted to run it by you. If you see anything, let me know."

"Sure, Marty. Is it okay if I run it by my guys?"

"Yeah, sure. Later, Mike."

"Later, Marty," the general said, before turning off the phone. "Huh."

"What's up, boss?" asked Chiu. "MIB?"

"Yeah. Apparently they found old Qing rifles on the black market. No idea where they're coming from."

"Triads, probably," Zhou figured, before turning back to the game. "Why? Is somebody taking surplus and selling it off to warzones?"

"Dunno. Apparently."

Location Unknown, Chiapas Province, United States of Mexico, 12 December 1917

As far as Emiliano Zapata was concerned, he didn't particularly care why the person was giving him and his soldiers free rifles.

He had thought it was a trick at first. After all, why were random Chinese people offering to give him and his men thousands of free rifles and millions of rounds of ammunition.

That said, he wasn't about to say no to free munitions to arm his men against his enemies. He was fighting for the people, after all, and if that meant making pragmatic compromises, then so be it.

That said, the Chinese merchants seemed remarkably enthusiastic to learn about his stances on land reform.

But as far as he cared, these were free weapons that worked, and they would be put to good use.

Chinese Consulate, Saigon, French Cochinchina, 20 December 1917

Le Van Ninh was more surprised than anyone to see a familiar face at the embassy, ever since that MIB agent had gone away for holiday.

It wasn't too surprising, of course, seeing that she was an analyst, not a field agent. Sure, Higa was good enough with a pistol, but she didn't get hired for that.

"So," a voice called on the other end, "Any update on the UCIC?"

"We have a few people on the inside, Marty," Le spoke into the phone. Technically, he was supposed to refer to the man as "Sir," but they were too busy catching up. "You'll never believe how it worked."

"Cleaning staff?"

"Yup. Oldest trick in the book. You'd think they would have caught onto it."

"This is a company that's trying to get into espionage, Le," the director pointed out, "They're not exactly professionals."

"You know how these guys work, Marty. Just because they're good at making money doesn't mean they're experts at other things. They just think they do."

I swear, CEOs are all the same. They're good at one thing, then they start thinking that they're experts on completely different things.

Honestly, the worst people in the world, next to people who get angry for money. Thank God we left them in the future.


"Anyways," Martin continued, "So, have they gotten anything good yet?"

"Yeah. They did it."

"Did what?"

"The attempted arson, Marty. Turns out they're working through fixers to hire criminals to start some fires around the New Schools. Guys we caught gave us a name, and the same names pop up in the UCIC files."

"Huh. Your people work fast, Le."

"They do keep trying to screw us over, Marty. So, is this enough to convict them?"

"Probably? I know Paris would want to hear this, but it'll get buried by the time they get back here."

"Yeah. Think the UCIC has people on the inside?"

"Probably? Le, you said it yourself that they have sympathizers in the colonial administration. They'll have a month's advantage against us if we leak this."

"Only if we go through the proper channels, Marty. What if we leak it to the press directly?"

"Hey, I'm not going to stop you. Wait, you do know somebody we can trust, right?"

"Yeah."

"Socialists?"

"Yup."

Mumbai, British India, 1 January 1917

"Get these onto the shore, now," said the first man, "We have only a few minutes until the patrols come back."

"The police aren't looking around here, Tejas," the second man hissed, only to lug the large crate onto the dock. "Ugh, it smells like fish."

"It was hidden in a fishing boat. What did you expect?"

"Doesn't mean I have to like it," the Ghadar agent muttered, "They couldn't think of a better way to smuggle these?"

"Well, we could always try to rob an armory. Would that make you feel better? At least you wouldn't smell like fish."

"Alright, Subhas. Now help me get this loaded into the cart."

Paris, French Republic, 21 February 1918

This was a shitshow. Jean Brodeur knew that much.

Not for us, that is. The UCIC and the Army, on the other hand...

How else could he describe it when it turned out that a French colonial company was actively funding acts of terror against a school?

Now, in fairness, said school was funded by Indochinese independence activists, but Jean knew that trying to burn down a school full of children would sit as well with the French people as bringing the Bonapartes back for a third time around.

Sure enough, the people of Paris were doing what they did best and rioting in the streets against what was known as the "Army Secret Organization," a network of French business interests, colonial officials, and members of the military that sought to hinder the colonial reforms at every turn.

It would all sound insane, if the evidence wasn't here. Random deaths, fires, and attempted assassinations? It all seems connected, and it's all in the UCIC's interests, as well.

Sure, the Indochinese could be trying to drive a wedge between us and our so-called allies, but they wouldn't bring this up unless they actually believed this.

After all, if they really wanted independence, they could just wait us out until 1925.


But this? This had the UCIC's fingerprints all over it. As in, it quite literally had their fingerprints, since he was fairly certain the whistleblower had literally dug these files out of the trash. Everything from memorandums to ledgers were now on his desk, verified by his own investigations.

Now, where did that leave them?

For starters, at least Paris now knew that the slow implementation of the reforms had come from the OAS, rather than the Governor-General's incompetence.

However, that left them with the same problems they had before.

Sure, Paris could issue orders to the Governor-General and have them enforced, but they didn't exactly have anyone who could enforce them, now that they knew how far the rot had gotten. Any order to Indochina would likely reach the UCIC and their allies before it reached the Governor-General, anyways.

It was a problem that he didn't know how to solve, if he was being honest, and Brodeur hated every second of it.

Sure, he wasn't a politician. He was a journalist and an advisor to Jaures, after all.

But at the same time, they needed to do something to deal with the UCIC and their allies.

He just didn't know what to do right now. Not over there, anyways.

As he looked out the window, he could see yet another businessman dragged into the street by the police over workers' rights violations.

Fifth one this week. Must be a new record.

Calcutta, Bengal Presidency, British India, 15 March 1918

One of the biggest obstacles in the fight against British imports had been prices.

After all, it was easy enough to say that you were opposed to buying British-imported cloth. The problem came when you had to pay more for Indian-made cloth in protest.

Truth be told, Vikram could sympathize with those who gave in. He didn't like it, of course, but he knew they had their reasons.

That was all a thing of the past, now that his textile mill was up and running.

This was the first of its kind in India, with its use of modern machinery bought from China, coupled with Indian labor and Indian-grown cotton.

"Vertical Integration," as the British called it. Or at least that was what his accountant had told him. Though if Vikram was being completely honest, that was such a mild term for the sheer impact it had had beforehand.

Back then, cotton would be grown in India, spun into cloth overseas in bulk, then it would be shipped back to be sold to the Indian people at unbeatable prices. While there was always the option of Indian-made goods, they lacked the efficiency that came with an economy of scale, leading to higher prices despite having to ship products halfway around the world.

But this? This was simpler, more-efficient, and by extension even cheaper.

Cotton would be grown in India, shipped to his factory, and then spun into cloth by Indian hands and Indian-operated machinery. There were no shipments halfway around the world this time, nor were the British factories even a fraction as efficient as his own operation.

When all was said and done, he'd saved money on logistics, operating costs, and transportation despite paying his workers a good day's wage.

That was what stuck out to him the most. With all the efficiency that came with modern machinery and not having to ship goods back and forth, he and his counterparts across India had beaten the British at their own game. They had managed to achieve the self-sufficiency of the Swadeshi movement without forcing their people to pay the price that'd come with it.

The British, for their part, had tried everything in the book to dissuade them. From tariffs on machinery to taxes on Indian-made cloth, none of them worked. In fact, the price of Indian-made cloth had been so low that his prices still beat anything the British could offer, even with the exorbitant taxes.

Now, Vikram wasn't about to object to taxes on principle. After all, he saw it as the cost of doing business and a means of contributing to the development of India. The problem, of course, was that none of the money was going there.

Apparently, the tax revenue was going to subsidize British imports to try and compete with their prices, along with customs enforcement.

That had been a thing, unfortunately. With the British at a disadvantage due to location and technology, the Empire had decided to place a heavy tariff on imported machinery from China. If they were to be believed, it was to "Protect India from predatory Chinese imports."

In practice, it meant that they needed to pay exorbitant prices to even import spare parts, which meant that the British were going to try to outlast the Swadeshi movement through sheer attrition.

That, however, was not something he was going to just let them do. Instead, he decided to bite the bullet and just buy the heavy machinery he'd need to build his own machinery in India.

It was a hard sell, of course. The Chinese factories weren't enthusiastic about India building their own machinery. While they definitely sympathized with him, they weren't about to sell the means to surrender their own market.

A licensing deal, however, had proven much more palatable to the Uptimer businessmen. It would cost him more in the long-term and the short-term, but that was a price Vikram was willing to pay.

If the British were going to cheat, then they just had to beat them at their own game a second time.
 
Last edited:
Hopefully, the OAS won't do as much damage as its OTL counterpart. Actually, how widespread is the OAS this time? OTL, it mostly operated in metropolitan France and Algeria, and only really had widespread support from the Pieds-Noirs.

Is this version of the OAS also present in other French territory outside of Indochina? Brodeur's POV seems to indicate that they're a more widespread conspiracy than OTL, but as a socialist he's probably biased.
 
Actually, how widespread is the OAS this time? OTL, it mostly operated in metropolitan France and Algeria, and only really had widespread support from the Pieds-Noirs.

Is this version of the OAS also present in other French territory outside of Indochina?
The good news is that they're not receiving widespread support from the Pied-Noirs. Or anyone, really.

Their support base consists of more conservative members of the government, the military, the Catholic Church, and of course business interests.

The bad news is that their support is more widespread across the French colonial empire. Basically, they're all over the damn place, at all levels, and they have the potential to tear France apart if they're not dealt with accordingly.

Or to put it another way, imagine they're like the Business Plot in America.
 
Is there any impact of socialists within INC? Any changes among Ghadar and IRA?

How communists in taiwan plan to deal with raj?
 
Is it me or you use vietnam name backward here ? (Vietnamese names are generally arranged as follows: [FAMILY NAME] [middle name] [given name]. For example, NGUYEN Van Nam (male) or LE Thi Lam (female). The 'family name' (or 'surname') is inherited from one's parents and shared with other members of the individual's immediate family .)
 
I have to say that I doubt the massive oil tankers and container ships that Taiwan has will be able to fit through the Suez or Panama canal, the Suez canal had a depth of only 8 meters when it was opened and compared to ships like the Evergiven which had a draught (height) of 16 meters and modern container ships won't be able to use the canal at all unless Taiwan builds smaller ships. So, I think right now downtime shipping will have a boost due to their need to use the Suez and Panama canals.

Also, I wonder if mainland China adopted Taiwan's common fistfights and brawls that happen in the Taiwanese parliament.
 
I wonder if mainland China adopted Taiwan's common fistfights and brawls that happen in the Taiwanese parliament.

Well, the KMT has a history of not always getting along. As in, outright trying to coup and kill one another at times.

It won't get that bad, but we could have Wang Jingwei and Hu Hanmin beating the crap out of one another over intra-party factionalism.
 
Well, the KMT has a history of not always getting along. As in, outright trying to coup and kill one another at times.

It won't get that bad, but we could have Wang Jingwei and Hu Hanmin beating the crap out of one another over intra-party factionalism.

I feel like if politicians were allowed to beat each other up more on the floor of the assembly it would A) intensify political fervor and B) reduce the chance of a gerontocracy like we have in the US
 
The Comments Section: America’s Senseless Suburbs
Comments on "America's Senseless Suburbs"

DelawareDiamond • 3h ago

That is a lot to take in, but it does make sense. Suburbs are very inefficient, now that I think about it.

You need to spread utilities all over the place, and it can lead to pollution and social isolation.

DowntimeDan • 3h ago

That's something I don't think we really thought about, but it does bring up a good point.

By keeping everyone so far apart, it does put a damper on the community coming together. The rural areas are far apart, yet people still rely on each other, while cities are more packed yet they still have that sense of community.

Suburbs, meanwhile, have neither.

JohnBrownWasRight • 2h ago

Not to mention the racial issues. The suburbs sort of applied a form of "Soft Segregation."

DowntimeDan • 2h ago

That as well, I suppose.

I grew up in New York City. I would hate to see my hometown decay as people flee it. It's not perfect, but those pictures…

Brings a tear to my eye to see what happened when all those people left.

CAinCN • 2h ago

The West Coast has the same problems. While we have more than enough space, these suburbs aren't the best use of our land.

And that is BEFORE we talk about the freeways.

Ugh.

JohnBrownWasRight • 1h ago

Tell me about it. Give me a train, any day.

DelawareDiamond • 1h ago

Amen, friend.

Cars are all well and nice, but they are a whole other hassle. The traffic would drive me mad."

CAinCN • 1h ago

Tell me about it. If I could walk everywhere I go and didn't need a car, then I would gladly not pay Old Man Ford.

MinnesotaNice • 1h ago

About that… Does anyone know what has gotten into Henry Ford? He has been going off about Jews again in his paper.

DowntimeDan • 50m ago

I'll take a racist loon over those weirdos in the Church of the Second Coming. I'm all for Freedom of Religion, but these ones have been trying to bring forth the apocalypse ever since the Chinese showed up.

JohnBrownWasRight • 45m ago

Is this about the Rapture again?

Downtime Dan • 39m ago

Yeah.

Don't know what's gotten into them. Apparently they think the Chinese coming back was God's Plan, so they want to replicate the same events.

Or something like that.

Truth be told, they don't make much sense to me.

DelawareDiamond • 30m ago

It could be worse.

DowntimeDan • 27m ago

Yeah. They could be like those guys who think the Chinese are "God's Final Test," or whatever nonsense they believe.

Apparently, they teamed up with the Klan.

DelawareDiamond • 21m ago

Of course they did.

JohnBrownWasRight • 15m ago

Oh great. Those guys.

CAinCN • 12m ago

At least they won't be taking up seats on the flights. You guys saw those, right?

DelawareDiamond • 7m ago

I've heard about them. Apparently the rich want to ride on the first passenger jet to fly across the Pacific.

Apparently they paid almost a thousand dollars for the opportunity.

JohnBrownWasRight • 5m ago

I say go for it. If anything goes wrong with their plane, nothing of value will be lost.

CAinCN • just now

Yup. If they want to cut ahead in line and test it out for us, then so be it.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top