A Second Sunrise: Taiwan of 2020 Sent Back to 1911

What would be a good name for the rewrite?

  • Children of Heaven

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • A Hundred Years' Difference

    Votes: 6 60.0%
  • Sun and Stars

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • The Second Sunrise

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • (Just call it Second Sunrise but make sure nobody refers to it as "SS")

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .
Could the National Revolutionary Army invade Korea and win?

Yes.

They would also probably suffer heavier casualties once the Japanese wise up, adapt, and use the mountainous terrain to inflict heavier casualties before running into the hills.

Sure, Katsura Taro might be how you pronounce, "Sunk Cost Fallacy" in Japanese at this point, but the IJA isn't stupid.

Sooner or later, they're going to find a way to counter the tanks and aircraft, even if it boils down to using artillery shells like IEDs and hiding in the hills so the Chinese have to come to them.

Which is why Plan B is on the table.

Plan B being, "Inflame Japanese tensions to a breaking point."

Which, now that I think about it, is probably going to be pretty easy when the Prime Minister who people were already calling a corrupt warmonger starts drafting people.
 
Been enjoying reading this, but I do have a question regarding the leaflet in the last chapter. Not sure why one of Taiwan's demands is the Japanese giving up Karafuto (aka, the southern portion of Sakhalin island). It's not considered Chinese territory in any way and would likely go entirely to the Russians like in OTL if the Japanese left their settlements there.

Yes, it's pretty much a colonial holding and was never settled as thoroughly as Hokkaido, but I don't see it as any sort of threat to the Taiwanese at all? It it just a hankering for Japan to have the borders that it does from when Taiwan came from?
 
Not sure why one of Taiwan's demands is the Japanese giving up Karafuto (aka, the southern portion of Sakhalin island). It's not considered Chinese territory in any way and would likely go entirely to the Russians like in OTL if the Japanese left their settlements there.

In-story it's an example of negotiating high and working down from there.

Though I imagine the main priority for Taiwan/China is getting the Japanese off the mainland. If the Japanese want to fork over Karafuto? Good.

If not? Oh well.
 
I think is not better use same policy as viet cong or Afganistan by providing arms and training to Koreans? Create a native revolutionary movement in Korea armed and supplied by Taiwan?
 
I think is not better use same policy as viet cong or Afganistan by providing arms and training to Koreans?

That, or wait for the Japanese government to collapse.

Which at this point, might actually happen, with how bad the Katsura cabinet has screwed up. And that was before any draft riots.

Remember: This is a PM who is already considered a corrupt military man by a large segment of the public.

And now said PM is instituting conscription to try and make up for all the losses the IJA has suffered.
 
What is the plan of Taiwan to deal with Leftist or socialist movements in West? I mean they are far more acceptable compared to Western Oligarchs and Aristocrats. Without Stalin's purge and other atrocities Socialist movements remain untainted. Is Taiwan try to subsume or create their version of Socialism to use international Socialism?
 
I'll be honest, Taiwan probably isn't thinking about how they'd deal with western socialists right now. Their main focus finishing off the war and building up their own country.

That said, it's an island that is, on one hand, very anti-socialist, but they are also pragmatic. If a socialist government pops up and acts favorably to them, they aren't going to say no to them.

But they also aren't going to actively encourage socialist movements.

As for Agent Fong and the rest of the MSS remnants? It's definitely on the table.

And unlike Ryan, they could get away with it.
 
Looks like we have a double-header today.

That may or may not be due to me writing one massive chapter and having to split it.
 
That was a poor man's nuke they delivered.

Fuel Air bomb that works the same was flour dust explosions work just using higher energy particles for a bigger boom. Effectively as the bomb parachutes in it spreads a mist of high octane fuel then ignites the fuel when either the onboard tanks are empty or it hits the ground.
 
Taiwan had at least one aircraft company operating skunkworks projects to deal with parts shortages ASAP.

Basically, the same thing is happening with specific weapons (or in this case, munitions). It's not as good as anything that's mass-produced. In all likelihood, this is what the engineers managed to cobble together.

Though, given the short timeframe, the one they dropped on Vladivostok was probably the prototype.

And if Chapter 28 was anything to go by, they probably have only a handful of them.
 
What is the plan of Taiwan to deal with Leftist or socialist movements in West? I mean they are far more acceptable compared to Western Oligarchs and Aristocrats. Without Stalin's purge and other atrocities Socialist movements remain untainted. Is Taiwan try to subsume or create their version of Socialism to use international Socialism?

Arguments can be made why they invaded mainland China, but I cant see why they would be interested in socialist movements in "the west". Considering also the differences between them and the reasons they formed and their goals. Kindof sounds like a way to completely ruin worker's rights movements and women voting rights of the early 1900s.....
 
Kindof sounds like a way to completely ruin worker's rights movements and women voting rights of the early 1900s.....
While there is a revolutionary aspect, these are movements that, while not the best at coming to power, could at least shift the overton window.

Funding and resources would likely be the most effective way to support them. Covertly, of course.

Outright revolution would almost certainly lead to a backlash against not only revolutionary movements, but progressive movements could also get caught in the crossfire.
 
About taking Russian territory, I wonder if it's worth risking uplifting them only to have some patriotic Russians run across the border along with their new expertise. Also Russian spies, it's much easier to be a spy within same nationality.
 
About taking Russian territory, I wonder if it's worth risking uplifting them only to have some patriotic Russians run across the border along with their new expertise. Also Russian spies, it's much easier to be a spy within same nationality.
So, in this scenario, it is worth remembering what happened during the Boxer Rebellion, when the Russians forced a few thousand Chinese from Blagoveschensk to walk across a frozen river, only for thousands to drown and freeze.

Now, if you see a bunch of Chinese troops rolling up unannounced to the city after crushing your army like it's Tannenburg with modern weapons, you might be worried that they would want payback for a decade ago.

Sure, the occupying troops probably say that they come in peace, but would you want to risk it?

Or would you high-tail it over to Chita before they (or in all likelihood, their troops) change their mind?

It wouldn't be everyone. Not by a longshot.

But if you're an ethnic Russian and you suddenly see Chinese troops taking over your city, it might be a good idea to run. Just in case.

Thing is, not everyone in that area is an ethnic Russian. They could react differently, especially when you factor in the Tsardom's policy of Russification.
 
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Chapter 30: Terms and Conditions
Outside of Vladivostok, Primorskaya Oblast, Russian Empire, 28 October 1911

Martin and Michael had never thought they'd end up this far.

To visit? Maybe. To negotiate with the General Brusilov himself?

A year ago, they would have said you were crazy.

Yet here they were, standing outside of the city outskirts under a flag of truce from the man himself.

"I'll be doing the talking," Rachel told them. When she offered to join them, it wasn't as if they had a choice. She spoke Russian, and they did not. "You'll have to wait for the translation. Got it, Chen?"

Michael nodded. He wasn't much of a diplomat or a general, but he was the closest thing they had right now.

"General Brusilov and Commander Kolchak," she began, before turning to Michael and Martin. "These men are Colonel Michael Chen and Major Martin Li. Colonel Chen, Major Li, this is General Aleksei Alekseyevich Brusilov and Commander Aleksandr Vasilyevich Kolchak."

Handshakes were exchanged, and the two sets of officers got down to business.

"I take it you are here about our offer of conditional surrender, Colonel?"

"Yes. Major Fong has briefed me on the terms you have offered. Conditional surrender with a two-week grace period for soldiers and civilians to leave, as well as transportation, if possible."

Michael turned to Martin once they'd heard the translation, and his friend (and de-facto XO) simply shrugged.

"We can do the two-week grace period, but we will require you and your men to relinquish any and all rifles, machine guns, or artillery. Sidearms should be fine, as well as any swords or daggers."

To this, the two Russians nodded.

"However," he continued, transportation will be an issue. While we could, in theory, take a cruise ship and ferry out twenty thousand people every two weeks, we would have to sail the ship through hostile waters in the Strait of Tsushima."

"And we lack enough space on what ships we have," Kolchak bitterly pointed out. "Which leaves us with few options, now that the Trans-Siberian Railroad has been cut."

"In your message, you said that you have been in contact with Saint Petersburg via telegram," Martin pointed out. "Yet the lines are cut. How exactly do you communicate with them, then?"

"That is simple," Kolchak told him. "We send a telegram to Ulan-Ude, where they then transport the message across Lake Baikal to Irkutsk, who then send the telegram to Saint Petersburg along regular lines."

"Right…" It did make sense to Li. Short of sinking every single boat on Lake Baikal, there would still be people sailing across it. Maybe not trainloads of them, but perhaps smaller loads. "So, if we were to transport you, your men, and any civilians who wanted to travel to be evacuated through this side of the Trans-Siberian Railway to Ulan-Ude, would it be possible to get them across in smaller ships?"

"It would be doable," Kolchak told him, speaking for both himself and the general. "After all, it is not as if your planes have sunk every ship on Lake Baikal."

"Right…" Chen continued, before the conversation deteriorated into an argument. "Of course, my commander is open to providing safe transit for any and all who wish to evacuate. That, we can do. However, the people who remain will also be an issue. Should this area be annexed by China, there will be several thousand Russian nationals within Chinese borders."

"I take it you are not a politician, Colonel?"

"God, no," Chen chuckled. "But I do not know what will happen. Hell, the fact that our two nations are still at war makes these negotiations remarkable as they are."

"Freezing to death is a very good motivator," Kolchak dryly observed. Though Chen couldn't speak Russian, he could definitely hear the bitterness in the man's voice. "Were this in the summer, we would not be here."

"Perhaps," Chen figured. Honestly, he didn't know what would have happened then. An all-out assault on the last Russian stronghold south of the Amur? "Given the… unique circumstances, General, I will need your help to ensure that the people understand the implications."

"That can be done," Brusilov agreed. Unlike Kolchak, Chen couldn't hear any bitterness in his voice. Weariness, yes, but not bitterness. "Of course, there will be the issue of a potential mutiny."

"My men are more than willing to assist, General. We have handled our fair share of mutinies."

"I see… Now, are there any other issues that you wish to discuss?"

"There is the issue of the fleet, General. Commander, I am open to negotiations on that."

"The fleet will be scuttled," Kolchak unflinchingly answered. "If the fleet is not offered safe passage, then I would rather have the ships scuttled than captured."

"As a warship, I can't allow an enemy warship to leave port." It wasn't so much that Chen was being a hardass, but he was pretty sure he would get court martialed if he let an enemy ship escape. "However, I am open to having the ship remain in port until a formal ceasefire is declared. During that time, you would be free to leave. Would that work?"

"Possibly," Kolchak told him. "I would have to see the terms."

"Of course." Honestly, I'd do the same thing if I was in your shoes. "So, with that out of the way, General, I'll have to send this up the chain. So, there any other issues you wanted to smooth out?"

"Nothing in particular," Brusilov told him. "I take it you have no concerns?"

"I've got a question, if you're willing to answer it."

"It depends on the question, Colonel."

"What will happen to you two when you return to Russia? I don't imagine the Tsar will be happy, even if this was an impossible mission."

"Colonel," Brusilov sighed, "As far as I'm concerned, the Tsar sent me and my men on a suicide mission. I couldn't care less about what he has to say to me."

Outskirts of Pyongyang, Japanese Choson, 29 October 1911

Captain Park never thought that he would end up here, and he wasn't just thinking of the past.

No, this was Pyongyang. The very heart of the Kim regime in the north.

Yet he was here, inserted with his men, with a singular mission: Wreak as much havoc behind Japanese lines as humanly possible.

Which, truth be told, he had been doing for a while. The Marines and the MIB had given him and his men the training and equipment they needed to form a partisan movement in the countryside, far away from the Japanese forces.

It wasn't exactly an easy operation, but picking off the IJA under cover of night was child's play when they could actually see in the dark while the garrison couldn't.

But this? The sight before him? It was more chaotic than anything he or his men could ever hope to accomplish, and that was after they'd started taking on new recruits.

Believe it or not, they had almost nothing to do with the outright riots and fires that had sprung up across the cities against the now-overstretched garrison. If anything, Katsura probably deserved most of the credit, ever since he began conscripting the locals.

Now, that wasn't to say that Park and his men were going to sit back and let the riot do all the dirty work.

"Team two, in position," a voice told him over the mic. "Got clear shots on two sentries and a couple in the watchtowers."

Park could see the four of them through his nightvision, nervously pacing back and forth outside of the armory as the riots raged in the city proper.

Was it unfair? Definitely. But war wasn't fair, and neither was the IJA. If he and his men could kill them with impunity, then they would.

"Drop them," he ordered, and the four men fell to the ground, none the wiser. "Team one, move in. Team two, cover us. Pick off any soldiers you can get a clean shot on. How copy?"

"Team two copies," his subordinate answered. "You're clear to move into the armory."

No, Park Jae-Hyun wasn't about to sit back and do nothing. And once they were done, neither would the rioters in Pyongyang.

National Diet Building, Tokyo, Empire of Japan, 31 October 1911

This was not the news that Katsura Taro wanted to hear.

Tokyo, he could handle with ease. One city wasn't much trouble to suppress, once the Army was mobilized to back up the police.

But a dozen cities, all across the country? That would be harder, but he thought he could handle that.

Sure, they weren't as large as the riots in Tokyo, but the IJA would be stretched thin. And that was before soldiers began defecting to protect the civilians they'd been sent to suppress.

But Choson as well? And while there were soldiers defecting to protect the rioters on the Home Islands, Terauchis last telegram said that the Koreans were outright raiding armories and picking off the IJA.

Normally, this wouldn't be a problem for the local garrison, but the bulk of the garrison had been deployed to Manchuria to capitalize on the Qing's disorganization. What was left was stretched to their very limits, and that was during peacetime.

"It seems that our forces are stretched to their limit," Home Minister Hirata observed. "While the Kempeitai would be useful in ensuring no further defections on the Home Islands, the vast majority of them are located in Choson, where they are working with their local auxiliaries and IJA troops to suppress the riots across the region."

"Which leaves us in a precarious position," the new Army Minister told him. We do not have the manpower necessary to deal with both Choson and the Home Islands. The men best-suited to suppressing the Home Islands riots are in Choson, while the manpower we require to suppress the rebellion in Choson is holding off the riots on the Home Islands."

"I see…" The Prime Minister understood it, but he didn't want to be reminded of just how overstretched they were. "And we are incapable of raising any more manpower in either territory? Militia, volunteers, and the like?"

"In Choson, we have been losing auxiliaries," Hirata told him. "Either through vigilante actions, partisan activity, or simply desertion."

"And on the Home Islands?" Katsura asked again, "What about them?"

"The Kempeitai is loathed, at best, by the general public," the Army Minister told him. Katsura could have sworn Hirata had shot the man a dirty look, but he couldn't care less right now. "While we could call on volunteers, they would be, at best, as poorly-trained as the rioters."

"If I may," the Army Minister continued, "I propose that we retreat our forces from Choson, at least for the time being, and redeploy the IJA and Kempeitai forces on the Home Islands."

"Are you mad?" Hirata asked him, before the Prime Minister could even voice his objections. "You, the Minister of the Army, are recommending that we abandon Choson to the Koreans?!"

"You said it yourself that we are overstretched right now in Choson and the Home Islands," the new War Minister shot back. Despite his lack of seniority, he wasn't about to be cowed by his fellow minister. "We do not have the manpower we need. We are not capable of fielding the manpower we need. Any manpower that we could have used has been sent to Manchuria, and they're either dead, captured, or missing. And any manpower we could have gained through conscription is currently rioting in the streets of Tokyo."

"If we lose control of Choson," the man continued, "this administration may be forced to dissolve. If we lose control of the Home Islands, the entire country could collapse. Prime Minister Katsura, I know that this is a difficult decision to make, but we are facing the greatest domestic crisis in decades. If we want to have even a chance of surviving this crisis, then we need to recall our forces from Choson. Once we consolidate our hold on the Home Islands, we can focus on retaking Choson."

Hirata could only scowl at this, and Katsura could feel the man's frustration.

But at the same time, Ishimoto's replacement had a point. If they focused on the home Islands, they would lose Choson. But if they focused on Choson, they would lose Japan itself to anarchy.

"I will not stand by and lose slowly on two fronts," the Prime Minister finally decided. "Send the order to recall our forces from Choson."

"Prime Minister, surely-"

"And we will deal with Choson once the domestic situation is resolved, Hitara," Katsura announced with newfound confidence. "Send the order. We need every soldier we have left."
 
I am surprised Taiwanese religious authorities not using themselves for Propaganda. Using venerable Taiwanese Buddhist Monks and Nuns to target Lay organisations like Risshō Kōsei Kai and Soka Gakkai and highlight Isot as a miracle from Buddha. So that Asians do not suffer from tragedies of canon time. Also target imperial house for arbitration particularly like Prince Takahito. Post war Kometio ideal to create a government focused on reconciliation and empowerment of Anti colonial and pan asian ideal.
 
many of Buddhist monks in Korea were revolutionaries. So isot will certainly boost popularity of buddhism. After Japan leave korea and creation of Korean government buddhism will become as much popular as canon Christianity in current Korea. Maybe even more. Thoughts?
 
I am surprised Taiwanese religious authorities not using themselves for Propaganda. Using venerable Taiwanese Buddhist Monks and Nuns to target Lay organisations like Risshō Kōsei Kai and Soka Gakkai and highlight Isot as a miracle from Buddha. So that Asians do not suffer from tragedies of canon time. Also target imperial house for arbitration particularly like Prince Takahito. Post war Kometio ideal to create a government focused on reconciliation and empowerment of Anti colonial and pan asian ideal.
From a conversation we heard earlier, the religious folks are as baffled as anyone else, which doesn't exactly make for great propaganda. For certainty, you want a cult leader type, and those bring their own problems.
 
From a conversation we heard earlier, the religious folks are as baffled as anyone else, which doesn't exactly make for great propaganda. For certainty, you want a cult leader type, and those bring their own problems.
That was largely seen from a philosophical lens, but yeah.

Not to mention that Taiwanese Buddhism has a significant role in secular society, so I would imagine a lot of them are focused on the day-to-day things.

That, and I don't think that the MIB would try to exploit religion to manipulate the downtimers. That can have a lot of unintended consequences.

Not to mention how this might not even work.
 
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