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A Play of Steel and Powder (ASOIAF NG)

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Velasco said:
Senior Storm-Cloaked male who isn't dead or a kinslayer raised in the old way.
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He's a random bastard with an education ill-suited to holding down a rebellious province, it's a poor choice and he'll either be a disaster or just wind up dead but I'm assuming nobody actually really wants to hold the Iron Isles and that the usual hopes that they all just drop dead will continue to apply so it doesn't really matter.
 
Sidheach said:
He's a random bastard with an education ill-suited to holding down a rebellious province, it's a poor choice and he'll either be a disaster or just wind up dead but I'm assuming nobody actually really wants to hold the Iron Isles and that the usual hopes that they all just drop dead will continue to apply so it doesn't really matter.
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Well, there's a distinct dirth of options. Victory means Veron is dead, and most of the adult male cousins too; Euron's son is missing; Rodrik is a kinslayer and distrusted by the Tullys. The Iron Isles no longer has a meaningful nobility, save perhaps for the Harlaws, who will probably go down with the Storm-Cloakeds. Ori needs to be in KL and I'm not sure Aeryn as LP would be a good choice? Through the female line and all that. Rodrik's eldest legitimate son is deaf, and the other ones super young - Gregory at least is an adult male, male-line Storm-Cloaked and son of someone the surviving Ironborn would know of/recognise.


Idk if there's a better option. Is there anyone you would put forward?
 
Velasco said:
Well, there's a distinct dirth of options. Victory means Veron is dead, and most of the adult male cousins too; Euron's son is missing; Rodrik is a kinslayer and distrusted by the Tullys. The Iron Isles no longer has a meaningful nobility, save perhaps for the Harlaws, who will probably go down with the Storm-Cloakeds. Ori needs to be in KL and I'm not sure Aeryn as LP would be a good choice? Through the female line and all that. Rodrik's eldest legitimate son is deaf, and the other ones super young - Gregory at least is an adult male, male-line Storm-Cloaked and son of someone the surviving Ironborn would know of/recognise.


Idk if there's a better option. Is there anyone you would put forward?
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Given this is indicative of a "we want the Iron Isles but we don't actually want the Iron Isles" policy, there is no better or even good option.
 
Sidheach said:
Given this is indicative of a "we want the Iron Isles but we don't actually want the Iron Isles" policy, there is no better or even good option.
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Well folks want the Iron Isles, but you can't really make the Iron Isles want you in return. Do you think Rodrik would be a better "we want want the Iron Isles" choice? Ralf Pyke? Or just letting them elect someone from among the survivors?
 
Velasco said:
Well folks want the Iron Isles, but you can't really make the Iron Isles want you in return. Do you think Rodrik would be a better "we want want the Iron Isles" choice? Ralf Pyke? Or just letting them elect someone from among the survivors?
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The sensible choice would be to butcher the noble families that don't kneel and replace them with loyal Andals. The choice the Iron Throne will inevitably make is sitting a Storm-Cloaked in Lordsport and hoping it goes back to being quiet and something it can forget about.
 
Sidheach said:
The sensible choice would be to butcher the noble families that don't kneel and replace them with loyal Andals. The choice the Iron Throne will inevitably make is sitting a Storm-Cloaked in Lordsport and hoping it goes back to being quiet and something it can forget about.
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Why not both?

A Storm-Cloaked as a centralizing figurehead and loyal Andals landed to replace all the lendmen and cadet Storm-Cloakeds.
 
Velasco said:
Why not both?

A Storm-Cloaked as a centralizing figurehead and loyal Andals landed to replace all the lendmen and cadet Storm-Cloakeds.
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Because the Iron Throne doesn't want a centralising figurehead, those are dangerous, it wants someone wholly dependent on it to maintain power that isn't a figure of great religious importance. Kill all the Storm-Cloakeds or at least drive them into exile in Essos and replace the nobility wholesale with Andals, make Aeryn the new Paramount, and then purge the Isles of anything remotely Ironborn for a few years before it becomes too expensive and people give up.
 
Sidheach said:
The sensible choice would be to butcher the noble families that don't kneel and replace them with loyal Andals. The choice the Iron Throne will inevitably make is sitting a Storm-Cloaked in Lordsport and hoping it goes back to being quiet and something it can forget about.
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Sidheach said:
Because the Iron Throne doesn't want a centralising figurehead, those are dangerous, it wants someone wholly dependent on it to maintain power that isn't a figure of great religious importance. Kill all the Storm-Cloakeds or at least drive them into exile in Essos and replace the nobility wholesale with Andals, make Aeryn the new Paramount, and then purge the Isles of anything remotely Ironborn for a few years before it becomes too expensive and people give up.
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I'm with Sid in this one.

its either wipe them out or don't.
 
Deathwing said:
I'm with Sid in this one.

its either wipe them out or don't.
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Well, obviously there's conflicting interests here - the Riverlanders and Westerlands probably want them wiped out, and the Northmen most likely too. The Dornish would love to see them spared and reconciled, but the Ironborn have made it clear no reconciliation is possible (AFAIK). So how do you reconcile with someone who doesn't want to reconcile? Doesn't seem feasible.​
 
Velasco said:
Well, obviously there's conflicting interests here - the Riverlanders and Westerlands probably want them wiped out, and the Northmen most likely too. The Dornish would love to see them spared and reconciled, but the Ironborn have made it clear no reconciliation is possible (AFAIK). So how do you reconcile with someone who doesn't want to reconcile? Doesn't seem feasible.​
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You don't reconcile them, the opinion of the Dornish is completely irrelevant, it's the Westermen and the Rivermen who are conquering the Iron Isles and the ones with the greatest influence in King's Landing.
 
Sidheach said:
You don't reconcile them, the opinion of the Dornish is completely irrelevant, it's the Westermen and the Rivermen who are conquering the Iron Isles and the ones with the greatest influence in King's Landing.
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The Dornish are sending ships too (I have a base at Feastfires for the exact purpose) and I'd argue the Dornish have far more pull in King's Landing than the Reynes, what with Prince Gatwick serving as Ori's personal companion and sworn sword, Aeryn's Dornish marriage, friendship with Sibella and Daena, and custody of the Storm-Cloakeds.
 
Velasco said:
The Dornish are sending ships too (I have a base at Feastfires for the exact purpose) and I'd argue the Dornish have far more pull in King's Landing than the Reynes, what with Prince Gatwick serving as Ori's personal companion and sworn sword, Aeryn's Dornish marriage, friendship with Sibella and Daena, and custody of the Storm-Cloakeds.
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Which pales in comparison to what the Westermen and the Rivermen spent retaking the mainland.

To put it lightly, I don't see either of them taking it well if the Iron Throne favour the Dornish attitude of being friendly to the Storm-Cloakeds over their desire for vengeance. I don't see the Arryns taking it well either or the Dondarrions or even the Redwynes, the Ironborn are the Westerosi punching bag and nobody will want to hold back just because the Dornish are being weirdly forgiving.
 
Sidheach said:
Which pales in comparison to what the Westermen and the Rivermen spent retaking the mainland.

To put it lightly, I don't see either of them taking it well if the Iron Throne favour the Dornish attitude of being friendly to the Storm-Cloakeds over their desire for vengeance. I don't see the Arryns taking it well either or the Dondarrions or even the Redwynes, the Ironborn are the Westerosi punching bag and nobody will want to hold back just because the Dornish are being weirdly forgiving.
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The Faith would also love to see the ironborn eradicated and replaced with good Andals worshiping the seven.
 
Sidheach said:
Which pales in comparison to what the Westermen and the Rivermen spent retaking the mainland.

To put it lightly, I don't see either of them taking it well if the Iron Throne favour the Dornish attitude of being friendly to the Storm-Cloakeds over their desire for vengeance. I don't see the Arryns taking it well either or the Dondarrions or even the Redwynes, the Ironborn are the Westerosi punching bag and nobody will want to hold back just because the Dornish are being weirdly forgiving.
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Not forgiving, just conciliatory. You need to have something to work with and genocide seems anachronistic and ill-fitted to the scenario.
 
Velasco said:
Not forgiving, just conciliatory. You need to have something to work with and genocide seems anachronistic and ill-fitted to the scenario.
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Anachronistic? Killing people you don't like en masse is a time honoured and ancient tradition. They're still finding mass graves Caesar left behind when slaughtering tribes.
 
All the Crown really needs to do is outsource the pacification. In a continent-sized Kingdom like Westeros, there will be no lack of second sons and such eager to go replace the Ironborn nobility and impose Andal ways upon them, spending their family resources to do so in return for new fiefs.
 
The timeskip will probably be done in two steps, atleast as far as Essos is concerned - the OP will introduce the current situations of people and then I'll do another post processing the actual orders. There'll be new dramas and new opportunities for one and all, I hope.
 
Ironanvil1 said:
All the Crown really needs to do is outsource the pacification. In a continent-sized Kingdom like Westeros, there will be no lack of second sons and such eager to go replace the Ironborn nobility and impose Andal ways upon them, spending their family resources to do so in return for new fiefs.
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I'm with you on that one.

Or hell even landless knights eager to become nobility themselves. It was common in the Medieval ages for knights favored by the king or nobility to get fiefs of their own. Thus the Iron Isles should be divided between Second Sons and Newly-Raised Nobles who sole task is the eradication of the Ironborn ways.
 
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