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A Game of Crowns (Mafia)

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  1. mesonoxian - Near certain Town, or mafia roleblocker. (Personal note)
  2. -Rosen - Nigel (Mention of Veil on death)
  3. Look to the Left - Lysander Roth (No mention of Veil on death. Explicit Assassin)
  4. Cyricubed - Still need to check. (Personal note)
  5. PyrrosWarrior - Townie feel, but hardly lock. (Personal note)
  6. Est - ????????????????????????????????????? (Basically the communal note, is dying though)
  7. QTesseract - Old Basset (Mention of Veil on death)
  8. InterstellarHobo - Likely Town (Personal note)
  9. 1KBestK - Definite Town (Personal note)
  10. Nanimani - Captain Orton Vastare (Mention of not being the one people are looking for)
  11. ComiTurtle - Almost certainly scum. (Personal note)
  12. Nictis - Issa Me. (Personal note? Does this count as one?)
  13. Happerry - Jason Von Vorhees (Mention of not being the one people are looking for)
  14. DimensionalGuy - Probably Town, has been noting a lot of the same stuff I do when hunting (Personal note)
  15. BanTheFairyKing - Meh. (Personal note)
  16. Absum - Dame Margaret Dewalt (No mention of veil, but mention of raising pressure of the crowd... Why? Time limit?)
  17. Evenstar - GM confirmed Town to me (Take my word for it?)
Veil mentions are continued after Left's lynch, meaning that someone is still trying to take out the Veil, so either there are still members of the Brotherhood hunting for the VIP, or there are multiple groups that want to kill the VIP. There's a single night kill each phase with consistent flavor, meaning either a Mafia, Serial Killer, or Town Vigilante. The kills don't make sense from a Vigilante so... Mafia or Serial Killer. The most obvious Mafia would be the Invaders, except they seem to be searching for the VIP from the fluff of the crowd, so it seems considerably more likely that we have a Serial Killer attempting to get parity than a mafia doing so.

A Town Bulletproof doesn't serve much purpose in a Presidential Game (Or rather, it somewhat goes against the setup of a presidential game) and is a common power for a Serial Killer, except if the Serial Killer is the only consistent killer then they don't need it. Personally, a Town Doctor already strains the belief but it could serve as a counterbalance to the nightly killer, a Town Bulletproof on top of that is too much.

Either we're dealing with multiple lone wolves trying to find the opportunity to take out the Crown and a group that is trying to kill everyone (Seems unlikely) or we're dealing with two small groups hunting for the VIP and a lone Serial Killer that is just trying to kill everyone. Two/Two/One/Twelve would be my expectation here. Single shot Bulletproof could make sense for an Assassin to have in order to protect against poor luck from an SK... Or would make for a good claim from a final member who needs to avoid being killed, which seems more likely.

I have role relevant reason to say that no Town would be Bulletproof. Role relevant/Setup guesswork based on the role info. I imagine that @Evenstar has the same.

... Actually, why am I being coy about it? I should probably just be open on that. I convert members of the Kingdom into Bodyguards. I find it extremely unlikely that anybody I could turn into a bodyguard would come with protection.


So yeah, setup reasons why Comi has to be scum. Wheeeeee.
 
[x] lynch comiturtle

I suppose. I'm worried at this claim though. We're nearing the end of this game. I assume when you turn someone into your bodyguard, they join the mason? Because paranoia is 100% kicking in and I feel like I'm getting good cop bad copped by Nictis and Even. I need to figure out a way to confirm you aren't scum going for the perfect win.
 
Fifty-four hours and thirty-one minutes remaining.

I feel like I said this way too early and am going to irritate people.
 
PyrrosWarrior said:
Cyri's requested post upcoming.
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I do want to update this by saying I am still here and working on this. I just decided to turn this into a part of a greater post I am working on: listing my suspected teams, the scenario each one would have to be in for them to be scum, and the pros and cons for why they could or could not be scum. This is working on the assumption that we currently have 2-3 scum left.
 
Nictis said:
  1. mesonoxian - Near certain Town, or mafia roleblocker. (Personal note)
  2. -Rosen - Nigel (Mention of Veil on death)
  3. Look to the Left - Lysander Roth (No mention of Veil on death. Explicit Assassin)
  4. Cyricubed - Still need to check. (Personal note)
  5. PyrrosWarrior - Townie feel, but hardly lock. (Personal note)
  6. Est - ????????????????????????????????????? (Basically the communal note, is dying though)
  7. QTesseract - Old Basset (Mention of Veil on death)
  8. InterstellarHobo - Likely Town (Personal note)
  9. 1KBestK - Definite Town (Personal note)
  10. Nanimani - Captain Orton Vastare (Mention of not being the one people are looking for)
  11. ComiTurtle - Almost certainly scum. (Personal note)
  12. Nictis - Issa Me. (Personal note? Does this count as one?)
  13. Happerry - Jason Von Vorhees (Mention of not being the one people are looking for)
  14. DimensionalGuy - Probably Town, has been noting a lot of the same stuff I do when hunting (Personal note)
  15. BanTheFairyKing - Meh. (Personal note)
  16. Absum - Dame Margaret Dewalt (No mention of veil, but mention of raising pressure of the crowd... Why? Time limit?)
  17. Evenstar - GM confirmed Town to me (Take my word for it?)
Veil mentions are continued after Left's lynch, meaning that someone is still trying to take out the Veil, so either there are still members of the Brotherhood hunting for the VIP, or there are multiple groups that want to kill the VIP. There's a single night kill each phase with consistent flavor, meaning either a Mafia, Serial Killer, or Town Vigilante. The kills don't make sense from a Vigilante so... Mafia or Serial Killer. The most obvious Mafia would be the Invaders, except they seem to be searching for the VIP from the fluff of the crowd, so it seems considerably more likely that we have a Serial Killer attempting to get parity than a mafia doing so.

A Town Bulletproof doesn't serve much purpose in a Presidential Game (Or rather, it somewhat goes against the setup of a presidential game) and is a common power for a Serial Killer, except if the Serial Killer is the only consistent killer then they don't need it. Personally, a Town Doctor already strains the belief but it could serve as a counterbalance to the nightly killer, a Town Bulletproof on top of that is too much.

Either we're dealing with multiple lone wolves trying to find the opportunity to take out the Crown and a group that is trying to kill everyone (Seems unlikely) or we're dealing with two small groups hunting for the VIP and a lone Serial Killer that is just trying to kill everyone. Two/Two/One/Twelve would be my expectation here. Single shot Bulletproof could make sense for an Assassin to have in order to protect against poor luck from an SK... Or would make for a good claim from a final member who needs to avoid being killed, which seems more likely.

I have role relevant reason to say that no Town would be Bulletproof. Role relevant/Setup guesswork based on the role info. I imagine that @Evenstar has the same.

... Actually, why am I being coy about it? I should probably just be open on that. I convert members of the Kingdom into Bodyguards. I find it extremely unlikely that anybody I could turn into a bodyguard would come with protection.


So yeah, setup reasons why Comi has to be scum. Wheeeeee.
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Didn't 1k point out there was a different kill flavor on Absum, or am I crazy?

Also @PyrrosWarrior that's why I included the tallies lol. EoD can be funky, so I published the tallies I used - which I got by setting things between Dawn and Dusk of the relevant day.

Alsoooo [X] Lynch ComiTurtle

I'm a bit concerned about 1k's math, but at this point I'm pretty confident on this read.
 
ComiTurtle said:
I'm huntings ghosts certainly but it felt like finding a fairly suspect individual to jump and stay on which is also scum needs to do to win this game really. It could be that my day 1 read of Town-Est has stayed long past its welcome because after day 1 its mostly gone, but especially now that I have a concept behind that absence it keeps me believing that they are not scum or at least not the scum that needs to be killed today for town to have any chance.
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No I can understand this I wouldn't call it hunting ghosts. I simply wanted to keep the slot open for discussion.

That being said I agree with an earlier comment on if the slot is dying anyway, don't waste the lynch slot on a potential modkill.

ComiTurtle said:
@Cyricubed can you please give an explanation why you find my idea of trying to force role claims as a detriment to town today? I'd like you to really try and explain how you believe that is going to put us in more dire straights than we currently are?
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Cyricubed said:
mass-claim could be a double edged sword: It forces scum to fakeclaim in a situation where they might not be able to do well. On the other hand assuming town tells truth it means Scum have a clear idea of how many protectives they need to cut out before they win.
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I already pointed this out. The only thing we have right now is the unknown roles still floating around. There could be more BG's, there could be a 2nd doctor, maybe a jailer(I doubt there is a jailer unless Nictis has been Big braining hiding jailer flavor he receives in the night. The point is while it might help find scum, it's outweighed by the fact that town need to tell the truth not to risk seeming scum and getting called out on a lie just to hide info from scum, thus outlining basically how fast scum can win if they don't get their RBer lynched Today.

Okay yeah, Nictis's...I don't even know what to call that kind of power but anyway it makes me look at Comi and say yeah no, this doesn't fit. Couple that in with while previous days comi's plays seem decent all around (except the part that could be considered LAL) but today's plays seem trying to force a plan of action in a sketchy manner.

But here's my problem with this...while I believe Comi is scum...I don't believe he's the roleblocker. @Nictis thoughts on this one line?
 
Yep, you're right. Ignore my point on you being conspicuously absent for the LttL lynch then.
 
BanTheFairyKing said:
Didn't 1k point out there was a different kill flavor on Absum, or am I crazy?

Also @PyrrosWarrior that's why I included the tallies lol. EoD can be funky, so I published the tallies I used - which I got by setting things between Dawn and Dusk of the relevant day.

Alsoooo [X] Lynch ComiTurtle

I'm a bit concerned about 1k's math, but at this point I'm pretty confident on this read.
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I misread it.
 
Nictis said:
  1. mesonoxian - Near certain Town, or mafia roleblocker. (Personal note)
  2. -Rosen - Nigel (Mention of Veil on death)
  3. Look to the Left - Lysander Roth (No mention of Veil on death. Explicit Assassin)
  4. Cyricubed - Still need to check. (Personal note)
  5. PyrrosWarrior - Townie feel, but hardly lock. (Personal note)
  6. Est - ????????????????????????????????????? (Basically the communal note, is dying though)
  7. QTesseract - Old Basset (Mention of Veil on death)
  8. InterstellarHobo - Likely Town (Personal note)
  9. 1KBestK - Definite Town (Personal note)
  10. Nanimani - Captain Orton Vastare (Mention of not being the one people are looking for)
  11. ComiTurtle - Almost certainly scum. (Personal note)
  12. Nictis - Issa Me. (Personal note? Does this count as one?)
  13. Happerry - Jason Von Vorhees (Mention of not being the one people are looking for)
  14. DimensionalGuy - Probably Town, has been noting a lot of the same stuff I do when hunting (Personal note)
  15. BanTheFairyKing - Meh. (Personal note)
  16. Absum - Dame Margaret Dewalt (No mention of veil, but mention of raising pressure of the crowd... Why? Time limit?)
  17. Evenstar - GM confirmed Town to me (Take my word for it?)
Veil mentions are continued after Left's lynch, meaning that someone is still trying to take out the Veil, so either there are still members of the Brotherhood hunting for the VIP, or there are multiple groups that want to kill the VIP. There's a single night kill each phase with consistent flavor, meaning either a Mafia, Serial Killer, or Town Vigilante. The kills don't make sense from a Vigilante so... Mafia or Serial Killer. The most obvious Mafia would be the Invaders, except they seem to be searching for the VIP from the fluff of the crowd, so it seems considerably more likely that we have a Serial Killer attempting to get parity than a mafia doing so.

A Town Bulletproof doesn't serve much purpose in a Presidential Game (Or rather, it somewhat goes against the setup of a presidential game) and is a common power for a Serial Killer, except if the Serial Killer is the only consistent killer then they don't need it. Personally, a Town Doctor already strains the belief but it could serve as a counterbalance to the nightly killer, a Town Bulletproof on top of that is too much.

Either we're dealing with multiple lone wolves trying to find the opportunity to take out the Crown and a group that is trying to kill everyone (Seems unlikely) or we're dealing with two small groups hunting for the VIP and a lone Serial Killer that is just trying to kill everyone. Two/Two/One/Twelve would be my expectation here. Single shot Bulletproof could make sense for an Assassin to have in order to protect against poor luck from an SK... Or would make for a good claim from a final member who needs to avoid being killed, which seems more likely.

I have role relevant reason to say that no Town would be Bulletproof. Role relevant/Setup guesswork based on the role info. I imagine that @Evenstar has the same.

... Actually, why am I being coy about it? I should probably just be open on that. I convert members of the Kingdom into Bodyguards. I find it extremely unlikely that anybody I could turn into a bodyguard would come with protection.


So yeah, setup reasons why Comi has to be scum. Wheeeeee.
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There's some things I don't follow the logic for here, some things here that read like you trying to come up with a complex explanation for no particular reason, and some things that just seem flat wrong.

Nictis said:
The kills don't make sense from a Vigilante so... Mafia or Serial Killer. The most obvious Mafia would be the Invaders, except they seem to be searching for the VIP from the fluff of the crowd, so it seems considerably more likely that we have a Serial Killer attempting to get parity than a mafia doing so.
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Why does "Invaders searching for VIP" imply they aren't also trying for parity?

Nictis said:
A Town Bulletproof doesn't serve much purpose in a Presidential Game (Or rather, it somewhat goes against the setup of a presidential game) and is a common power for a Serial Killer, except if the Serial Killer is the only consistent killer then they don't need it. Personally, a Town Doctor already strains the belief but it could serve as a counterbalance to the nightly killer, a Town Bulletproof on top of that is too much.
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This chunk confused me. If you do have the ability to deputize people then a town bulletproof would absolutely have a purpose- namely, to absorb a hit for free if you successfully deputize them. But it also sounds like you think bulletproof would be too strong for town? For the latter, I feel like you're justifying that based on what you believe the setup to be, which....

Nictis said:
Either we're dealing with multiple lone wolves trying to find the opportunity to take out the Crown and a group that is trying to kill everyone (Seems unlikely) or we're dealing with two small groups hunting for the VIP and a lone Serial Killer that is just trying to kill everyone. Two/Two/One/Twelve would be my expectation here.
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Smells like unsupported nonsense. A much simpler explanation that fits the facts better is a single Mafia with two possible win conditions- kill enough townsfolk, or kill you. LttL would then have been a secondary solo (maybe duo?) scum, with either a single strongman kill or a goal of killing someone other than you.

Nictis said:
Single shot Bulletproof could make sense for an Assassin to have in order to protect against poor luck from an SK... Or would make for a good claim from a final member who needs to avoid being killed, which seems more likely.
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Single shot Bulletproof could make sense for an Assassin to have, sure, but not for an Assassin to claim.
The only dead scum is LttL, who appears to have been working alone. ComiTurtle is probably not a final member who needs to avoid being killed. It was a good claim for explaining TurtleDucks' bizzarre behaviour, and could well have been a lie to try and save their skin, but I don't think you can reasonably infer that ComiTurtle is the final member of a scum team.

Honestly, I think there's two reasonable explanations and you haven't hit either.
Either ComiTurtle is being honest- which explains TD's strange behaviour, by my frequently awful memory fits with their behaviour immediately prior to the claim, and the role itself makes a lot of sense here. (Spent brief time trying to find the claim. Didn't. Worth fact checking)
Or, Comi knew about your deputizing abilities, and was hoping to bait you in to deputizing him. This doesn't necessarily explain TD's strange behaviour, but does match everything else.

I don't think many other explanations are reasonable- Bulletproof Town is such an odd and useless seeming role that it makes little sense to fakeclaim, unless you know that you may someday be a bodyguard as well. On the other hand, it would be quite a coup to recruit someone bulletproof as a bodyguard, which makes it a great fakeclaim if you want to trick someone in to making you a bodyguard.

I'm not arguing Comi is town, to be clear. I'm arguing that your certainty of Comi scum is poorly founded.


BanTheFairyKing said:
Didn't 1k point out there was a different kill flavor on Absum, or am I crazy?

Also @PyrrosWarrior that's why I included the tallies lol. EoD can be funky, so I published the tallies I used - which I got by setting things between Dawn and Dusk of the relevant day.

Alsoooo [X] Lynch ComiTurtle

I'm a bit concerned about 1k's math, but at this point I'm pretty confident on this read.
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They did, they was wrong. The "different kill flavor" was Absum killing rando soldiers.
 
Cyricubed said:
But here's my problem with this...while I believe Comi is scum...I don't believe he's the roleblocker. @Nictis thoughts on this one line?
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Either I seriously fucked up in picking who to trust, in which case it doesn't matter, or we're good for a little longer regardless. At this point I'd like to just actually lynch scum on purpose. I'm not seeing much reason not to think that Comi is the roleblocker in particular at this point either, so... Meh.

I would be saying we should force a roleclaim out of Est at the least here, except he's already dying at this point so it kinda defeats the point. I wouldn't be entirely against a mass reveal of everyone's original roles either.
InterstellarHobo said:
Why does "Invaders searching for VIP" imply they aren't also trying for parity?
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If the VIP dies, the Veil falls. If the Veil falls, all those armed guys in the crowd will be able to tell who they're killing. The Veil is the only thing preventing an immediate game over for Town because it is the thing maintaining the basic Mafia premise of people not knowing who each other are and forcing all this social deduction instead of just lining up everyone from Merovin and putting them to the sword.

It's a specific kind of Win Condition.
InterstellarHobo said:
This chunk confused me. If you do have the ability to deputize people then a town bulletproof would absolutely have a purpose- namely, to absorb a hit for free if you successfully deputize them. But it also sounds like you think bulletproof would be too strong for town? For the latter, I feel like you're justifying that based on what you believe the setup to be, which....
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It goes against what this kind of setup is meant to be. It also entirely screws over a single-shot Assassin, which is kind of the premise of the King's Game. Not to mention that we already had a Doctor apparently...
InterstellarHobo said:
Smells like unsupported nonsense. A much simpler explanation that fits the facts better is a single Mafia with two possible win conditions- kill enough townsfolk, or kill you. LttL would then have been a secondary solo (maybe duo?) scum, with either a single strongman kill or a goal of killing someone other than you.
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I've been told that there were Assassins after me, and the continued mentions of people in the crowd hoping to see me dead or the Veil fall says that there are still people after me. As for them having two different win conditions and unlimited attacks... Not really seeing it, no. It sounds simpler, but it just goes against the idea of this kind of setup. We don't have a Mr. President game to make it easier for the mafia to win as they bleed me of my support, with an unlucky choice on my part leading to a near immediate loss for the Town.
InterstellarHobo said:
Single shot Bulletproof could make sense for an Assassin to have, sure, but not for an Assassin to claim.
The only dead scum is LttL, who appears to have been working alone. ComiTurtle is probably not a final member who needs to avoid being killed. It was a good claim for explaining TurtleDucks' bizzarre behaviour, and could well have been a lie to try and save their skin, but I don't think you can reasonably infer that ComiTurtle is the final member of a scum team.
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I'll be honest, this is raising a pretty large red flag for me. I will say that I'm not sure that ComiTurtle is the last member of the Brotherhood, he could be the Serial Killer who just made a pretty normal fake claim, he could be an Invader who made that claim to avoid being killed by the Serial Killer, or he could be a member of the Brotherhood who made that claim to avoid being killed by the Serial Killer.

What I can say, without having to make a bigger post than I feel like making on the interactions of ComiTurtle and how that one post I quoted was the last straw for a tonal read in addition to the setup reasoning, is that there would not be any Bulletproof Town. I doubt there'd even be any bulletproof Scum, but Scum claiming Bulletproof is absolutely something I can see happening in this.
InterstellarHobo said:
Either ComiTurtle is being honest- which explains TD's strange behaviour, by my frequently awful memory fits with their behaviour immediately prior to the claim, and the role itself makes a lot of sense here.
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Not really, no. Not at all.

TurtleDuck acting like a Survivor and buddying up to potential scum does not make me think "Y'know, maybe he was trying to bait attacks."

With this post, I'm actually kinda eyeing Hobo as a potential ally of Comi if he flips as a non-Brotherhood scum. Blegh, that means I have more work to do when I actually have time to go do those ISO's I need to do.
 
TurtleDucks said:
This is libel! (Or is it?)
I can fully assure you that I am an honest member of [insert reader's faction here] and will be doing my best to ensure [insert reader's faction here]'s victory.
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TurtleDucks said:
@Evenstar

Might I convince you to nullify your vote to lynch me? As you can clearly see from my post here:


I am very trustworthy and most definitely on your side. I am not suspicious in the least!
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TurtleDucks said:
Curses, it appears that intentionally acting suspicious has made me seem suspicious, who could have predicted this convoluted trail of logic?

Perhaps I'll try a different tact.

If you keep me around, I just might save your life.
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TurtleDucks said:
Evenstar said:
Cool! Are you scum?
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Good question.
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TurtleDucks said:
And if read by a townie, then I'm a townie. I've been very clear about being everyone's friend until proven otherwise.
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TurtleDucks said:
TurtleDucks is your friend, don't lynch them!
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This really doesn't read to me like a bulletproof Town. And can I say that with your mention of it being a fake claim in order to get brought in that this quote is a lot more concerning now?
TurtleDucks said:
Curses, it appears that intentionally acting suspicious has made me seem suspicious, who could have predicted this convoluted trail of logic?

Perhaps I'll try a different tact.

If you keep me around, I just might save your life.
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If Nictis dies, and we're not immediately af game over, then we should massclaim to even the playing field, because it probably means scum get to know who everyone else is. I am leary of doing it before them, but I've never massclaimed before.
 
1KBestK said:
If Nictis dies, and we're not immediately af game over, then we should massclaim to even the playing field, because it probably means scum get to know who everyone else is. I am leary of doing it before them, but I've never massclaimed before.
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... I am a tad too tired to tell if what I said on this was a bad idea or not, but 1K has been playing top notch this game so... I'mma trust her on this one for now. Might change my mind after work and a nap.
 
Honestly fuck this.

Nictis just wants to lose the fucking game, and I don't give a shit about trying to change their mind. Lynch me and lose, I don't want to play anymore.
 
I'm just going to prepare for my pokemon tournament and hope you all somehow don't lose tonight, Nictis is playing absolutely garbage and is completely unwilling to do any work to look for actual scum, I keep saying its Ban, and Cyricubed, his confirmed ally says its Ban too... and he just says I'm scum because I'm one-shot bullet-proof. I'm at the point I wish I didn't replace into this slot, because Nictis is honestly taking any fun out of playing the game for me, especially since I can't even argue he is doing anything but playing poorly because I can't reasonably believe the VIP set-up isn't in effect given the hints in lynch posts.
 
ComiTurtle said:
I'm just going to prepare for my pokemon tournament and hope you all somehow don't lose tonight, Nictis is playing absolutely garbage and is completely unwilling to do any work to look for actual scum, I keep saying its Ban, and Cyricubed, his confirmed ally says its Ban too... and he just says I'm scum because I'm one-shot bullet-proof. I'm at the point I wish I didn't replace into this slot, because Nictis is honestly taking any fun out of playing the game for me, especially since I can't even argue he is doing anything but playing poorly because I can't reasonably believe the VIP set-up isn't in effect given the hints in lynch posts.
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Trust me Comi. With what I am preparing, you are going to want to wait. I can promise it will be a good read at least. It's just taking me an annoyingly long amount of time to put together. It is hard enough doing 1 read, let alone 4+ people
 
though admittedly, I might have to take a catnap soon. My eyes are becoming rather tired from staring at the screen so long and reading so much and I don't want to give myself an eye-strain headache again.
 
I think everyone's really stressed right now. We've not really seen what the sk/maf team is and there's a lot of mistakes being made on all ends. I think we should all cool off and take a breather. While I understand and empathize with you @ComiTurtle, lashing out isn't making things better right now. Don't give up. We've got like two days left.

Let's all just chill out and get some rest.
 
1KBestK said:
I think everyone's really stressed right now. We've not really seen what the sk/maf team is and there's a lot of mistakes being made on all ends. I think we should all cool off and take a breather. While I understand and empathize with you @ComiTurtle, lashing out isn't making things better right now. Don't give up. We've got like two days left.

Let's all just chill out and get some rest.
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I'd rather focus on my tournament and will be enjoying that more so that's gonna be my focus. I have to rate one of the ways I generate income to this game and generation of income outweighs the sheer amount of effort I'm going to have to put in to budge the game. If I was having more fun I could probably find a happy medium, but I'm just not finding it right now.

Sorry.
 
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