- Location
- USA
More the Humans Orders then Gaias. And if we add in the Light and Darkness things become even more complex I bet due to the way both work due to the fact both work more on Facts of existence then anything else.
A Flame of Hope in the Grim Darkness (A 40k/Multicross Quest)
- Thread starter BobTheNinja
- Start date
- Crossover Sci-Fi Fantasy
BobTheNinja
Sword of Possibility
- Location
- Multiverse Sector Texas
It's been a while since I touched Titanfall, but I don't remember mind uploading being in the setting. I'd also need to mull over how exactly the timelime-phasing tech from Titanfall 2 would function in this verse.
Sorry to let you down, but I'm going with the ~2.1 kilometer scaling for the Pride of Hiigara. Most other sources I'm able to find at a glance use this as the scaling measure, so that's what I'm sticking with.
I definitely recommend taking a look at Lancer if you get the chance. It's a tabletop mecha RPG that portrays humanity in a distant future after Earth civilization collapsed. Union is the hegemony that rose from its ashes, and is now trying to build a utopian civilization amid a vast diaspora of different human polities while contending with its own very checkered history. There's also paracausal technology and extradimensional AI-like minds that may or may not be shackled mini-eldritch beings. It's pretty great.
This will be Post-War UNSC, circa late 2559, just in time for the MJOLNIR GEN3 platform to be rolled out.
I'm probably going to go with Disney canon, simply because I'm not familiar with the vast majority of the old Legends EU content. I mean, if you all really, really want me to go with the Legends timeline, I suppose I can accommodate, but you'd need to point me at an easily digestible resource to become familiar with the major lore points.
I have been thinking about including UC Gundam around the time of Unicorn, maybe a bit later, though they would almost certainly be an Ancillary Faction. There's also the question of which exact faction to go with, as the Earth Federation is still a corrupt mess.
Heavy Object could be interesting, would need to look at the lore again since it's been a little while. I don't remember being as enamored with Aldnoah Zero, so that one's real iffy.
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- Location
- USA
They are in Titanfall 2, Pilots with fully robotic bodies allowing. Often noted to be more a thing on the corporation side then frontier.
Vote on Faction Quantity Limit
BobTheNinja
Sword of Possibility
- Location
- Multiverse Sector Texas
...Damn, I'm realizing that I may want to include a couple more settings in the lineup, for the sake of Cool factor if nothing else.
Okay, new emergency vote:
[ ] Keep the maximum number of factions at 5
[ ] Expand the maximum number of factions to 7
Also, someone please tell me if I need to use the Tally or Poll function in the thread to schedule a count, I don't know which one I should be using. ;__;
Okay, new emergency vote:
[ ] Keep the maximum number of factions at 5
[ ] Expand the maximum number of factions to 7
Also, someone please tell me if I need to use the Tally or Poll function in the thread to schedule a count, I don't know which one I should be using. ;__;
Just be careful you don't burn yourself out in juggling more factions/settings.
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BobTheNinja
Sword of Possibility
- Location
- Multiverse Sector Texas
Gahh...I'm sorry, but I think I need some serious guidance. I'm looking through the New Tally function on SV, but I have no idea what some of the options do like "open voting", or the option for blocking non-voting replies. And I don't see an explicitly marked area for putting vote options in the New Tally section.
I've literally never used the SV tally system before, and I feel utterly lost. I really need some sort of "for dummies" guide explaining what exactly all these options do so that I don't screw something up. Do we have anything like that?
I've literally never used the SV tally system before, and I feel utterly lost. I really need some sort of "for dummies" guide explaining what exactly all these options do so that I don't screw something up. Do we have anything like that?
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Well if it makes you feel better I already started the tally so if you want to update it just click new tally then when the pop up appears click new tally again(the one on the pop up) or if you want to post the tally scroll down then click insert as new post.
Spectral Waltz
Scatterbrained Writer
- Location
- Walking the Endless Corridors
Unless otherwise specified, the system will automatically populate any line of text beginning with '[X] *insert vote here*' as an option that has been selected. It will then count that post and all other posts with an identical line as a vote for that option.
Don't block non-voting replies, all that does is it forces people to include a vote every time they reply to the thread. This inhibits discussion, though it can be useful in certain specific types of quests.
Open voting just means that the voting doesn't have a time limit or other restrictions. You can tell a vote to close at a specific time so that the system will automatically tally the votes then without you needing to do it.
Also, unless you specify a range of posts, the voting system will always only tally votes that have been posted since the most recent threadmark. Since your 'emergency vote' post wasn't a threadmark, the automated system will still be counting everything, not just posts made since.
Oh and:
[X] Keep the maximum number of factions at 5
7 will make it far too easy for us to cover weaknesses and eliminate issues. Limitations breed tension and creativity.
Pls do not separate your faction vote and this vote and pls put them under 1 post otherwise the tally will only register this vote and not your faction vote.
BobTheNinja
Sword of Possibility
- Location
- Multiverse Sector Texas
Okay, that definitely helps, thank you Waltz.
In that case, I'm going to threadmark the new faction limit vote and postpone the major setup votes, since It's becoming clear I jumped the gun a bit before finalizing my setup decisions.
I'm also going to put together basic descriptions of each faction being ported over, as there are some unresolved questions of faction era and canon variant that should be answered before making a final decision.
Sorry for all the scrambling around on my part, this is what I get for not thinking all the relevant questions through all the way. I hope you'll all bear with me.
EDIT: Okay, I think I have a good enough grasp on the Tally system. I just have one other question, what's a good amount of time to let a vote run for, on average?
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BobTheNinja
Sword of Possibility
- Location
- Multiverse Sector Texas
I think this is relatively common knowledge, but it would be remiss of me not to point it out for clarification's sake:
The Adeptus Astartes are not just defenders of humanity, but enforcers of the Emperor's vision for mankind. That means the vast, vast majority of them are Xenophobic and Human-Supremacist. Generally, they do not tolerate any deviation from this line. They are literally psycho-indoctrinated with this worldview.
To hammer the point home, even the Salamanders are more than willing to punish human polities that violate these tenants. During the Great Crusade, the Primarch Vulkan, one of the most human and compassionate among the Primarchs, ordered a planet cleansed because the humans living there peacefully coexisted with Exodite Eldar.
Caldera - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum
He ended up hating what he did...but he still did it. And I very much doubt his descendents in the modern Salamanders would hesitate to repeat it again given the choice.
Some Space Marine chapters and companies may be willing to tolerate cooperation with other factions to deal with a more dire common threat, it's happened often enough, but those who would actually trust Xenos on their own merits or humans who deviate from the Imperial line are exceedingly rare. And even among those who are more compassionate to regular humans, very few would hesitate to bring the hammer down upon on 'heretics'.
Not saying this can't be changed, I just want to illustrate how much of an uphill climb it will be. That being said, I do have a few favorite Astartes Chapters, and the Salamanders are one of them. Some others that may be worth looking into are the Tome Keepers, the Lamenters, the Celestial Lions, the Raptors, the Crimson Fists, and the White Consuls.
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I got an ideal for get the lamenters; and here's a john brown meme
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BobTheNinja
Sword of Possibility
- Location
- Multiverse Sector Texas
Sorry thst I missed this earlier, but can you elaborate on your question?
I should note that I haven't cleared the Lightfall campaign yet, been busy with other stuff. Will try to get that done this weekend so I can get caught up.
Also, on FFXIV, I've reached as far as the end of the Shadowbringers main campaign (5.1). Please try not to spoil anything beyond that if you can avoid it.
- Location
- USA
By the end we have a explanations for how each power Light and Dark that we have classes for works metaphysical speaking. What matters is the new one Stand due to the fact it works by.
it is the connections between thought baring species and Guardias now have the ability to use it like Stasis as a Darkness based class.
Spart117MC
Amateur human
- Location
- Cali
It is possible to reliably scale up the numbers found online to be in accordance with those presented in the manual and Deserts of Kharak.
The Kushan Mothership, when I have scaled it in Blender the same way I do the Scaffold to get to be 25.6 kilometers tall, comes out to 38.21 kilometers tall. If you're getting your numbers from the Axatar videos over on Youtube all you have to do is divide that number by what they have for the Kushan mothership which is 2.47 km. That gives you 15.47, rounded up.
Since Axatar did not edit their models to get the numbers that they did the models are to scale with one another. That makes it so that all that needs to be done is to calculate the larger sizes is to simply go and multiply the ones listed by Axatar by 15.47. Funnily enough if you go into the description of their video they recommend multiplying by 24.
Here are the lengths (height in the case of the mothership) of Kushan capital ships scaled up using this method and Axatar's numbers.
Ship | Listed Dimensions | Converted Dimensions |
| Ion Frigate | 141m | 2.18km |
| Assault Frigate | 125m | 1.93km |
| Support Frigate | 159m | 2.46km |
| Drone Frigate | 116m | 1.79km |
| Resource Controller | 272m | 4.21km |
| Destroyer | 344m | 5.32km |
| Missile Destroyer | 322m | 4.98km |
| Heavy Cruiser | 468m | 7.24km |
| Carrier | 520m | 8.04km |
| Mothership | 2.47km | 38.21km |
I'm being a stickler for larger Homeworld ship sizes because I kinda love the idea of everything in that setting being massive but also because the 2 kilometer scaling clashes drastically with what's presented in Deserts of Kharak. That method of scaling puts the Taiidan carrier at only 607 meters long. DoK fluffs the Sakalas as being 568 meters long in the Expedition Guide.
DoK makes exclusive use of the metric system so we can be assured that the unit of measurement being used here is in fact meters but if there is any doubt that's dispelled by the presence of Kushan models next to "smaller" units that serve as reference points.
Those vehicles when compared to the people standing next to them look very much in keeping with the sizes stated to my eyes.
Now, the reason why the 2 kilometer scaling ends up being a problem in DoK is because the game not only shows us a Taiidan carrier, which should be around the same size as a Kushan carrier, it does so in gameplay in the mission "Torin Crater," and when you roll up a Sakala-class carrier next to it, the Taiidan carrier is very obviously more than a 39 meters longer than the landship.
Sure, you could choose to ignore this part of Deserts of Kharak but if you can now easily ascertain those larger ships sizes and figuring those out was the major impediment keeping you from going with those bigger numbers, is there still a reason to do so?
BobTheNinja
Sword of Possibility
- Location
- Multiverse Sector Texas
After thinking on the topic some more, I'm making an executive decision to stick with the 5 faction limit after all. My mind has been all over the place since getting the quest up, and the truth is that this isn't the only project I'm involved in right now. I'm worried that I'll end up biting off more than I can chew if I try to do more than 5. Plus @Spectral Waltz had a point about having too many additions potentially making things too easy.
I'm sorry if I got anyone's hopes up prematurely on that front. On the other hand, this means I can jump right into working on summaries for the candidate factions, so we can get to the main vote faster.
I don't know about that, the UNSC's MAC guns are at least a little bit busted. And their energy shielding and micro-fusion reactor tech is just really nice all around. Small arms and ground vehicles could definitely use some work though.
EDIT: I almost forgot, they can also produce NOVA bombs. So, uh...yeah, that's a thing.
FFXIV actually does have some tech to play with. They have airships and robots, plus the Machinist class is a thing, as is Garlond Ironworks. I agree that much of their utility comes from magic and blessings, but they are definitely capable of making their own technological contributions.
As a quick note, some of the Nier androids' stuff runs on magic, a leftover from the cataclysmic events of the prior games in the series. They can launch projectile attacks, create hard light constructs and barriers, and other neat feats.
Oh, and for the YorHa-type androids, their black box cores can self destruct with the force of a nuclear blast, should the need arise.
My thinking is that both Light and Dark paracausal abilites will be able to affect the warp and immaterial beings...*however*, while the Light is pretty safe and comes with its own limited protection against hostile paracausal influence, the same cannot be said about the Dark, which as I understand it relies far more on delving into the power of emotion, memory, and the psyche.
Using Dark abilities may not be the exact same as using the Warp, but it's certainly near-adjacent, and pulls on many of the same threads (pun intended). I'd say that Strand is potentially even more perilous here, because using that specifically involves relinquishing control and and flowing with the psychic threads, wherever they lead. I don't think I need to tell you that in 40K, that can be Dangerous.
...Well shit, you certainly did your research. To be honest, I haven't played Deserts of Kharak, so that aspect didn't enter my mind at all.
Alright, I can see you put a fair amount of work into compiling this info, so you win. We'll go with the bigger scaling for Homeworld ships.
I guess it's just weird, because in my head, I didn't think of their stuff as being THAT big.
I'm sorry if I got anyone's hopes up prematurely on that front. On the other hand, this means I can jump right into working on summaries for the candidate factions, so we can get to the main vote faster.
I don't know about that, the UNSC's MAC guns are at least a little bit busted. And their energy shielding and micro-fusion reactor tech is just really nice all around. Small arms and ground vehicles could definitely use some work though.
EDIT: I almost forgot, they can also produce NOVA bombs. So, uh...yeah, that's a thing.
FFXIV actually does have some tech to play with. They have airships and robots, plus the Machinist class is a thing, as is Garlond Ironworks. I agree that much of their utility comes from magic and blessings, but they are definitely capable of making their own technological contributions.
As a quick note, some of the Nier androids' stuff runs on magic, a leftover from the cataclysmic events of the prior games in the series. They can launch projectile attacks, create hard light constructs and barriers, and other neat feats.
Oh, and for the YorHa-type androids, their black box cores can self destruct with the force of a nuclear blast, should the need arise.
My thinking is that both Light and Dark paracausal abilites will be able to affect the warp and immaterial beings...*however*, while the Light is pretty safe and comes with its own limited protection against hostile paracausal influence, the same cannot be said about the Dark, which as I understand it relies far more on delving into the power of emotion, memory, and the psyche.
Using Dark abilities may not be the exact same as using the Warp, but it's certainly near-adjacent, and pulls on many of the same threads (pun intended). I'd say that Strand is potentially even more perilous here, because using that specifically involves relinquishing control and and flowing with the psychic threads, wherever they lead. I don't think I need to tell you that in 40K, that can be Dangerous.
It is possible to reliably scale up the numbers found online to be in accordance with those presented in the manual and Deserts of Kharak.
The Kushan Mothership, when I have scaled it in Blender the same way I do the Scaffold to get to be 25.6 kilometers tall, comes out to 38.21 kilometers tall. If you're getting your numbers from the Axatar videos over on Youtube all you have to do is divide that number by what they have for the Kushan mothership which is 2.47 km. That gives you 15.47, rounded up.
Since Axatar did not edit their models to get the numbers that they did the models are to scale with one another. That makes it so that all that needs to be done is to calculate the larger sizes is to simply go and multiply the ones listed by Axatar by 15.47. Funnily enough if you go into the description of their video they recommend multiplying by 24.
Here are the lengths (height in the case of the mothership) of Kushan capital ships scaled up using this method and Axatar's numbers.
Ion Frigate 141m 2.18km Assault Frigate 125m 1.93km Support Frigate 159m 2.46km Drone Frigate 116m 1.79km Resource Controller 272m 4.21km Destroyer 344m 5.32km Missile Destroyer 322m 4.98km Heavy Cruiser 468m 7.24km Carrier 520m 8.04km Mothership 2.47km 38.21km
I'm being a stickler for larger Homeworld ship sizes because I kinda love the idea of everything in that setting being massive but also because the 2 kilometer scaling clashes drastically with what's presented in Deserts of Kharak. That method of scaling puts the Taiidan carrier at only 607 meters long. DoK fluffs the Sakalas as being 568 meters long in the Expedition Guide.
DoK makes exclusive use of the metric system so we can be assured that the unit of measurement being used here is in fact meters but if there is any doubt that's dispelled by the presence of Kushan models next to "smaller" units that serve as reference points.
Those vehicles when compared to the people standing next to them look very much in keeping with the sizes stated to my eyes.
Now, the reason why the 2 kilometer scaling ends up being a problem in DoK is because the game not only shows us a Taiidan carrier, which should be around the same size as a Kushan carrier, it does so in gameplay in the mission "Torin Crater," and when you roll up a Sakala-class carrier next to it, the Taiidan carrier is very obviously more than a 39 meters longer than the landship.
Sure, you could choose to ignore this part of Deserts of Kharak but if you can now easily ascertain those larger ships sizes and figuring those out was the major impediment keeping you from going with those bigger numbers, is there still a reason to do so?
...Well shit, you certainly did your research. To be honest, I haven't played Deserts of Kharak, so that aspect didn't enter my mind at all.
Alright, I can see you put a fair amount of work into compiling this info, so you win. We'll go with the bigger scaling for Homeworld ships.
I guess it's just weird, because in my head, I didn't think of their stuff as being THAT big.
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- Location
- USA
But that doesn't make sense as how Darkness is presented. It wouldn't be Warp adjacent if the Light isn't. They both come from similarly beings. While Light prefers chaos and the Darkness order. They both are clear in they are paths to Free will. Darkness must be taken yes but that isn't how the Warp works. And just Sword Logic, as Stasis and Strand are very different. With Stasis being order while Stand is about the links between minds.
the big thing that the assorted factions brings in are:
Citadel Council (Mass Effect)
1. Ezio, and the mass manipulation technology that comes with it.
...that's it- everywhere else they are outclassed
UNSC (Halo)
1. universally effective shielding systems- something that no Warhammer 40k faction short of the Necrons have.
2. the MAC cannon, and its super variant- a rather serious, and scalable, spinal weapon of the sort that is essentially almost completely lacking from the rest of our faction list
3. the Nova Bomb(and other lesser nukes)- both rather strong, and can scale all the way up to Planet Busting- something that even the Imperium considers to be both rare and super expensive.
4. relatively cheap and mass producible Super Soldiers- they are no Space Marines, but they could eventually become almost the basline standard, which the Space Marines are not and never will be.
The Kushan (Homeworld)
1. effective Titan equivalents right from the start
2. ships capable of matching what the Imperium can field in size, if not in capability
3. manufacturing capabilities that are very much (very close to) Sub-Com levels, which makes this almost an autoinclude if we want to win a straight fight against an actual crusade force, and the force that will follow that, and the one after that... and the Orks, and the Tyranids, and the Necrons
Union (Lancer):
1. Knight scale mechs, and lots of them
2. extremely large amounts of experience fighting in such wars
3. a decent baseline tech level, the sort we can't get from the Citadel, and likely better than what the post-war UNSC offers on average
Free Planets Alliance (Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Die Neue These)
...don't know enough here
New United Nations (Macross)
1. Knight scale mechs, and lots of them
2. extremely large amounts of experience fighting in such wars
3. a decent baseline tech level, the sort we can't get from the Citadel, and likely better than what the post-war UNSC offers on average
4. macross missile massacre, with Halo nukes would be awesome
New Republic (Star Wars)
1. the Force
2. a technology level that can overall match the Imperium of Man, something that most of the other available factions cannot say that they have
3. experience acting on the scale that the 40k galaxy is on
4. very good FTL capable strike craft
United Federation of Planets (Star Trek)
1. a technology level that technically beats out what the Imperium of Man has, if you manage to patch its many weaknesses in ship design, ground based troops+designs, and method of waging war
Ancillary Candidate Factions
Alliance of Sol (Destiny)
1. Light+Dark
2. Warminds offer an impressive amount of coordination
3. experience in fighting numerous non-conventional foes, to the point where it arguably beats out Chaldea in this department
Chaldea Security Organization (Fate/Grand Order)
1. magecraft
2. Servants, and lots of them
3. large amounts of experience fighting unconventional foes, which is a necessity against Chaos and the like.
Eorzean Alliance (Final Fantasy XIV)
1. Final Fantasy magic- which is easier prolifferated than Magecraft; and while it lacks some of the same high points, the level that the average practitioner can reach is vastly higher than what baseline Magecraft is capable of.
2. experience fighting unconventional foes, if not quite to the same level as the Alliance of Sol and Chaldea.
3. decent research capabilities, although not to the level of the Kushan, Alliance of Sol, Chaldea, or a few others- but better than Mass Effect, Star Wars, and maybe the Union and Lancer
Androidkind Compact (Nier: Automata)
1. top-notch infantry+infantry support
2. decent secondary ground troops
3. strikecraft that while amazing, fall short of Macross, Lancer(maybe), and certainly short of the New Republic.
WILLE (Rebuild of Evangelion)
1. serious Titan/Knight level suppport, with the mobility and secondary stuff required to somewhat match an Eldar Titan in terms of speed and maybe firepower, although this is basically all that is on offer that most other faction here, short of maybe the Citadel Council, can't match and exceed.
basically, if we went up to 7 factions I would like to add the UNSC and New Republic to the mix- as everything else is covered.
[X] New United Nations (Macross)
[X] The Kushan (Homeworld)
[X] Alliance of Sol (Destiny)
[X] Chaldea Security Organization (Fate/Grand Order)
[X] Androidkind Compact (Nier: Automata)
[X] A semi-noticeable entry involving the placement of an entire colonized star system to serve as starting territory.
[X] Triplex System
[X] Expand the maximum number of factions to 7
[x] UNSC (Halo)
[x] New Republic (Star Wars)
Citadel Council (Mass Effect)
1. Ezio, and the mass manipulation technology that comes with it.
...that's it- everywhere else they are outclassed
UNSC (Halo)
1. universally effective shielding systems- something that no Warhammer 40k faction short of the Necrons have.
2. the MAC cannon, and its super variant- a rather serious, and scalable, spinal weapon of the sort that is essentially almost completely lacking from the rest of our faction list
3. the Nova Bomb(and other lesser nukes)- both rather strong, and can scale all the way up to Planet Busting- something that even the Imperium considers to be both rare and super expensive.
4. relatively cheap and mass producible Super Soldiers- they are no Space Marines, but they could eventually become almost the basline standard, which the Space Marines are not and never will be.
The Kushan (Homeworld)
1. effective Titan equivalents right from the start
2. ships capable of matching what the Imperium can field in size, if not in capability
3. manufacturing capabilities that are very much (very close to) Sub-Com levels, which makes this almost an autoinclude if we want to win a straight fight against an actual crusade force, and the force that will follow that, and the one after that... and the Orks, and the Tyranids, and the Necrons
Union (Lancer):
1. Knight scale mechs, and lots of them
2. extremely large amounts of experience fighting in such wars
3. a decent baseline tech level, the sort we can't get from the Citadel, and likely better than what the post-war UNSC offers on average
Free Planets Alliance (Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Die Neue These)
...don't know enough here
New United Nations (Macross)
1. Knight scale mechs, and lots of them
2. extremely large amounts of experience fighting in such wars
3. a decent baseline tech level, the sort we can't get from the Citadel, and likely better than what the post-war UNSC offers on average
4. macross missile massacre, with Halo nukes would be awesome
New Republic (Star Wars)
1. the Force
2. a technology level that can overall match the Imperium of Man, something that most of the other available factions cannot say that they have
3. experience acting on the scale that the 40k galaxy is on
4. very good FTL capable strike craft
United Federation of Planets (Star Trek)
1. a technology level that technically beats out what the Imperium of Man has, if you manage to patch its many weaknesses in ship design, ground based troops+designs, and method of waging war
Ancillary Candidate Factions
Alliance of Sol (Destiny)
1. Light+Dark
2. Warminds offer an impressive amount of coordination
3. experience in fighting numerous non-conventional foes, to the point where it arguably beats out Chaldea in this department
Chaldea Security Organization (Fate/Grand Order)
1. magecraft
2. Servants, and lots of them
3. large amounts of experience fighting unconventional foes, which is a necessity against Chaos and the like.
Eorzean Alliance (Final Fantasy XIV)
1. Final Fantasy magic- which is easier prolifferated than Magecraft; and while it lacks some of the same high points, the level that the average practitioner can reach is vastly higher than what baseline Magecraft is capable of.
2. experience fighting unconventional foes, if not quite to the same level as the Alliance of Sol and Chaldea.
3. decent research capabilities, although not to the level of the Kushan, Alliance of Sol, Chaldea, or a few others- but better than Mass Effect, Star Wars, and maybe the Union and Lancer
Androidkind Compact (Nier: Automata)
1. top-notch infantry+infantry support
2. decent secondary ground troops
3. strikecraft that while amazing, fall short of Macross, Lancer(maybe), and certainly short of the New Republic.
WILLE (Rebuild of Evangelion)
1. serious Titan/Knight level suppport, with the mobility and secondary stuff required to somewhat match an Eldar Titan in terms of speed and maybe firepower, although this is basically all that is on offer that most other faction here, short of maybe the Citadel Council, can't match and exceed.
basically, if we went up to 7 factions I would like to add the UNSC and New Republic to the mix- as everything else is covered.
[X] New United Nations (Macross)
[X] The Kushan (Homeworld)
[X] Alliance of Sol (Destiny)
[X] Chaldea Security Organization (Fate/Grand Order)
[X] Androidkind Compact (Nier: Automata)
[X] A semi-noticeable entry involving the placement of an entire colonized star system to serve as starting territory.
[X] Triplex System
[X] Expand the maximum number of factions to 7
[x] UNSC (Halo)
[x] New Republic (Star Wars)
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BobTheNinja
Sword of Possibility
- Location
- Multiverse Sector Texas
Look, I'm just going off of how the powers are described and how they would logically interact with the 40K setting. Both Light and Darkness give conceptual power, giving them weight and influence in the Warp, but the way that they respectively function results in different risk factors. The lore indicates that Darkness involves consciousness as a core aspect, with themes of competition and survival as well. In my mind, that naturally makes using Dark far closer to the principles of Chaos.
To be more specific, I envision the main risk of using Light as drawing opposition and enmity from the Ruinous Powers, since it likely shares at least some similarities with the light of the Anathema (The Emperor). On the flip side, I see using Darkness as a much more direct risk of Chaos corruption, again, due to its aspects and themes. Stasis is likely a 'safer' choice because its specifically about control and directed force, while Strand seems to me like it would be more risky, because you would have to follow psychic threads in a universe that is massively polluted with negative emotional energy and daemonic corruption.
If you think that's wrong in some way, I'll need a more thorough explanation as to why. Also, please bear in mind that this is a crossover, and thus some measure of author fiat is required.
Spart117MC
Amateur human
- Location
- Cali
I did the majority of this research years ago for a couple of fics, one that died out and another that's stayed as a work-in-progress, and in the course of doing so I fell in love with DoK. Let me tell you, the Kushan were doing some insane mega engineering well before they went into space.
View: https://youtu.be/bseNXBUKlJM?t=149
See that there facility there in the opening of Deserts of Kharak? That is Epsilon Base. From the inside, with how the ground is raised, Epsilon's walls are around 59 meters tall. The outer face though, I've found that to be 132 meters tall.
Epsilon is one of numerous defensive positions built into a greater megastructure known as the Stormbreaker wall. The Stormbreaker wall is a kilometer wide and thousands of kilometer long wall intended to prevent desertification, that was built in a decade.
Why undertake such an insane task you may ask? Because the northern kiithid discovered that the mountain range that their people historically relied on to keep sandstorms at bay was going to be overwhelmed in a century. So these folks built a wall to do the job of a mountain, and they did so in ten years while under continuous military attack from an apocalypse cult.
That's not the only insane piece of engineering the Kushan of the era came up with. The North Coalition's equivalent of supply planes are Landers, massive flying wings with 1.2 kilometer wide wingspans, with four sets of wheels. One on each side of the hull and one on each wingtip. The craft can carry hundred meter long cruisers. The best part of them though is how they land.
- Location
- USA
While some Author fiat is fine. I have to disagree because Darkness shouldn't be Chaos. Darkness be its very nature hates the mess the light creates. It has a clear and defined wining goal. Compared to Chaos which only wants to keep going and self destructive. The problem with thinking Stand and Stasis would lead to Chaos is leaving out the fact the Winnower is still there unless you get rid of the Darkness as the key to those powers. Hells sake Guardians have and do use Sword Logic and don't fear corruption. The two are unlike Chaos in how they function for many reasons.
Spectral Waltz
Scatterbrained Writer
- Location
- Walking the Endless Corridors
Depends on the vote, depends on how long your want people to discuss for, you might want to wait and try to get a darker fire how long your cheers take to decide on things before starting in on time limits.
I think you're mischaracterizing both of these powers relative to the warp. By going 'light good, darkness bad, warp bad, therefore darkness is closer to the warp', you end up being reductive about what all of these powers actually are.
First of all, The Light and The Darkness are not moral powers. They're just powers, diametrically opposed in a metaphysical sense, but not in any actual one. The Traveler isn't the source of the Light, merely the strongest wielder of it, so strong that it can stimulate the ability to wield light in others. By the same dint, The Witness is not the source of The Darkness, merely the strongest wielder of it yadda yadda yadda.
Basically, what defines both Light and Dark is that they are both Paracausal. That is to say, their use and effects are not part of normal causality rules. Guardians are -in Destiny- impossible to account for in calculations or predictions because they are effects without causes.
Both powers can benefit from strong emotions, positive and negative. If one is vulnerable to chaos, the other should be as well.
I would say that your average light and darkness wielders are weaker than average chaos users who have had equivalent amounts of time to train and grow stronger, but have an advantage of being almost or even completely immune to all seer shenanigans. A blind spot to any attempts to scry or predict the future.
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Spart117MC
Amateur human
- Location
- Cali
Alright Destiny lore noob here, but this is what I've heard and come to understand in passing about the Light and Dark. The two paracausal energies are not inherently corruptive or redemptive in the manner that the light side of the Force and dark side of the Force are and unrelated to morality.
If you were to pair the Light and Dark to concepts on an alignment chart, then where the light side of the Force and the dark side would line up with Good and Evil, Light and Dark would be Chaotic and Lawful respectively. There is nothing inherently good or bad about them. Just as one can be Lawful Good so too can a person be Chaotic Evil.
Destiny has plenty of characters that despite having only the Light were evil. One needs only look to the Dark Age where the Risen conquered and killed as warlords despite not using the powers of the Dark. Then there are the Awoken and Exos who despite being intrinsically tied to the Darkness are not evil, not to mention the wielders of the Dark on the side of the City.
In Star Wars, an evildoer that uses the Force would naturally gain access to the dark side and be able to tap into it without learning its lore, however in Destiny an evil Lightbearer doesn't become a wielder of the Dark simply by doing despicable deeds.
Wielders of the Dark being predominantly villains appears to be less the result of the corrupting nature of the Dark but rather that the wielders of the Dark want their allies to wield it too and want other wielders to be allied to them. This is fundamentally how Lightbearers came to be synonymous with good people.
The Lords of Iron went out and created that association by killing all those Risen that were evil and through threat of violence made certain Risen in the future did not go do that path. Eventually with the memories of Warlords long past and visible Lightbears being forces of good the cultural viewpoint shifted and the Light itself became associated with good.
Despite what people say about the Witness and the Traveler neither are avatars of the Dark or the Light, powerful wielders of it perhaps, but not entities that fully represent either force's underlying intentions.
Look at the Cold War. The West consisted of democratic nations that practiced capitalism. The East consisted of totalitarian regimes the espoused socialism. There wasn't any intrinsic tie between democracy and capitalism or totalitarianism and socialism. These were associations constructed by the two sides. A democracy can practice socialism and a totalitarian state can practice capitalism.
The Light is associated with the good because the good guys went and massacred everyone that used the Light for evil. The Dark is associated with villains because they want people to use the Dark and work for them. We don't see the folk that used the Dark and opposed them because they were wiped out by the villains.
That's my limited understanding of the Light and the Dark.
- Location
- USA
We do is the thing on our sides. Eris, Drfiter, Ann's Sister. All of them either use Darkness or teach it to us.
Spart117MC
Amateur human
- Location
- Cali
You'll notice I mentioned individual wielders of the Dark aiding the City. What I meant were groups in sizeable numbers. There isn't an entire Darkness using faction aligned with the City just as there isn't a whole faction of Risen out and out allied with the Witness.
My point is that the two major 'Light' and 'Dark' factions cull groups that would defect or oppose them and create the narrative that the Light and Dark are in line with their personal motivations.
My point is that the two major 'Light' and 'Dark' factions cull groups that would defect or oppose them and create the narrative that the Light and Dark are in line with their personal motivations.
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