EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
*looks at character sheet*
We attend Middle School and work for Judgement at the age of 10?
We attend Middle School and work for Judgement at the age of 10?
A Certain Systemic Error
- Thread starter Lunaryon
- Start date
Naw, Academy City's scientists are morally degenerate because Aleister doesn't care. He doesn't want Kiharas for scientific advancements, he just wants them with him so he can keep an eye on them, because killing them doesn't stick but bribing them does.
Welcome to Academy City?
Well I believe the Kuroko bank robbery scene on her first day where she first interacts with railgun was like a year before canon. Add in another year? for training and maybe she started training for judgement at 11/12. So maybe haruko's just with judgement as a trainee member (1or 2 years younger then kuroko may have started)? Or perhaps she has a unseen special talent like uiharas computing and/or the kihara pushed her into judgement for whatever reason. Or maybe she just hangs out at judgement and helps out sometimes, but isn't actually an official member.
Or could just be academy city being weird.
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FoolsandTools
Post-Depression Panic
- Location
- Spiritually Lost
Skipping grades isn't unheard of, though as far as we know you have to be like academy city scientist smart. It could just be a clerical error. Or Hanako straight lying about her age for personal reasons. Like being harder to track down or something.
Edit: Also looking at the wiki regardless of our "official" age elementary students can join judgement apparently.
Edit: Also looking at the wiki regardless of our "official" age elementary students can join judgement apparently.
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Academy City is riddled with exceptions and special cases anyway. Doubly so for Child Errors who were mainly of two cases:
1) Enrolled as student, but could not keep up the fees and did not generate enough value to offset that. They get repo-ed.
2) Parents ditch the Child Error in the city or they run away or they sneak in. The city does whatever the heck they want. The lucky kids with average potential wind up in orphanages and basic schooling to show the public their humanitarian program. The rest tend to be lab rats. Since we have a Kihara right there, she probably crash coursed us in what we needed to enter Middle School via hypno-conditioning and dumped us in.
Theres an elementary schooler cyborg Kihara incidentally. She fought Misaka Original for fun
Lunaryon
Dual Aurora Wave
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The thing there is that even if you were to straight out copy the Level 5 Railgun power, you are at least a hundred energy short of being able to use the Railgun once.
The ability to reliably use your ability is one of the major things that is looked at when measuring an ability.
As you are right now, you can either use summation twice a day (Maybe four times if you rest and eat well in between) or look back a total of less than 2 hours.
To give an sort of ballparking for a Level 4 Psychometric, They would be able to look back months of time, or in at least one case, they are capable of not only looking back in time, but submerging themselves so far as to gain an approximation of what people were actually thinking at the times looked back.
On the energy side of things you are on the higher end of Level 1, but haven't gotten to Level 2 quite yet.
Yeah, there's a bit of a difference between taking 24 seconds to shift a power compared to the 0.7 seconds that Rensa does.
Remember that while Branch 177 tends to get involved in some pretty heavy stuff, Judgement is primarily supposed to be a method for students to police themselves. Judgement is not supposed to get involved in anything serious.
I was making a point of how relying on 'energy' was normal for espers. Also that espers can have abilities which they can only use a couple times before tiring.
That is.. Really really harsh. I could see that as being a median or half way level 4 (which seems pretty reasonable), but having it as the minimum? While I could understand that perhaps its conditions are harsher then their physical counterparts, having it so harsh seems a little much. Keep in mind the director personally takes an interest and uses high level thinker abilities for his plans. What little we have of purely thinker abilities (like mii) don't seem so harshly rated. Also all that doesn't take into account the OC's AIM abilities.
Having her a higher level means they can use her for more testing/use her ability more in general, it gives a better picture for judgement/anti-skill if she ever goes rouge. (The testing being especially useful considering how useful AIM data is.
Also keep in mind that it seems like thinker abilities even on this level already seem really rare and valued, considering how many big events happened in academy city in which a ability like this would be useful.
I'd say it isn't wrong, not for a Thinker Ability anyway. More than anything I think the Value they hold, and thus the Level if that's the scale you're working with, would scale on an S-curve.
The climb from Level 0 to Level 2 would be hard, but then once you start to be able to view in weeks and months for a History viewing power like our current one you would probably shoot up very fast before topping out in High Level 4 territory and needing a lot more exotic info gathering capabilities to push it to Level 5.
It would also depend on what kind of information you could gather I imagine.
We can only see a couple hours and/or a summary of one object. We are not useful and will not be for a while with that power. A long while if we pick up others which we should be where we can.
... Considering her history I wonder how Misaka would end up feeling with teaching another electromaster who, by dint of their power, would have a similar AIM field to her own.
The climb from Level 0 to Level 2 would be hard, but then once you start to be able to view in weeks and months for a History viewing power like our current one you would probably shoot up very fast before topping out in High Level 4 territory and needing a lot more exotic info gathering capabilities to push it to Level 5.
It would also depend on what kind of information you could gather I imagine.
We can only see a couple hours and/or a summary of one object. We are not useful and will not be for a while with that power. A long while if we pick up others which we should be where we can.
... Considering her history I wonder how Misaka would end up feeling with teaching another electromaster who, by dint of their power, would have a similar AIM field to her own.
Level 0: Powers are non-existant or barely existant or not replicatable.
Level 1: Barely existent with force around that to bend a spoon or barely useful. A level 1 thinker based ability might be something like extending your range of touch a couple cm's
Level 2: Notabley existent but not yet useful. an example of this is Kumokawa's ability which makes the force of attacks of her body 1.5 to 3x as strong. Being able to augment your eyesight by about the same amount with some zoom may be the equivalent for psychometrics.
Level 3: Useful: Mii's ability is a decent example of this, allows sight through thin materials though her eyesight isn't augmented in any other way.
Level 4: For a type of thinker ability I guess it would have to be at the point where they could create actionable intelligence to act upon or could perform the abilities of a spy without training. Or could meaningfully disrupt services (Like by gaining access to passwords or blackmail material or catching small flaws in the system). Or have such a good thinker power that your intelligence greatly improves the force you are with (2 or 3 times as good with a squad of normal people for example).
Level 5 would be a little tougher but I guess it would be the stage where you can take over an entire country without any start-up resources or any help you didn't leverage through your power. Or at the point where you can gain enough information on science to defeat them with that. Or be able to read someone so accurately you can basically mind control them. Or be able to teach/mentor other espers (possibly through hypnosis) to reliably to be to reach power much greater than what was possible for them before.
So I could see OC's ability justified as Level 2 if they wanted to be specfically harsh on psyschometrics, or if they are partially accounting for lack of training / little information on the current limits on the power.
Level 3 is where I see it would generally be classified right now. Its useful, both in real life (Finding things you misplaced and seeing into the past) and tactically (Passwords and other things I mentioned.) Not to mention the usefulness of further study. Its about as good as canon Mii's clairvoyance ability, though useful in different circumstances.
For LOW Level 4 for the current ability would probably be around 5-10ish times as powerful I think? That should make it powerful enough to reliably be able to get decent intelligence. Maybe less if we copied some other abilities. Alternatively could take less if they find her ability particularly researchable or give special consideration for the ability to add more powers to herself.
Level 1: Barely existent with force around that to bend a spoon or barely useful. A level 1 thinker based ability might be something like extending your range of touch a couple cm's
Level 2: Notabley existent but not yet useful. an example of this is Kumokawa's ability which makes the force of attacks of her body 1.5 to 3x as strong. Being able to augment your eyesight by about the same amount with some zoom may be the equivalent for psychometrics.
Level 3: Useful: Mii's ability is a decent example of this, allows sight through thin materials though her eyesight isn't augmented in any other way.
Level 4: For a type of thinker ability I guess it would have to be at the point where they could create actionable intelligence to act upon or could perform the abilities of a spy without training. Or could meaningfully disrupt services (Like by gaining access to passwords or blackmail material or catching small flaws in the system). Or have such a good thinker power that your intelligence greatly improves the force you are with (2 or 3 times as good with a squad of normal people for example).
Level 5 would be a little tougher but I guess it would be the stage where you can take over an entire country without any start-up resources or any help you didn't leverage through your power. Or at the point where you can gain enough information on science to defeat them with that. Or be able to read someone so accurately you can basically mind control them. Or be able to teach/mentor other espers (possibly through hypnosis) to reliably to be to reach power much greater than what was possible for them before.
So I could see OC's ability justified as Level 2 if they wanted to be specfically harsh on psyschometrics, or if they are partially accounting for lack of training / little information on the current limits on the power.
Level 3 is where I see it would generally be classified right now. Its useful, both in real life (Finding things you misplaced and seeing into the past) and tactically (Passwords and other things I mentioned.) Not to mention the usefulness of further study. Its about as good as canon Mii's clairvoyance ability, though useful in different circumstances.
For LOW Level 4 for the current ability would probably be around 5-10ish times as powerful I think? That should make it powerful enough to reliably be able to get decent intelligence. Maybe less if we copied some other abilities. Alternatively could take less if they find her ability particularly researchable or give special consideration for the ability to add more powers to herself.
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FoolsandTools
Post-Depression Panic
- Location
- Spiritually Lost
Nothing much until Sisters Noise actually happens, and as we currently stand we are at most a friend of a friend to Misaka.
It was mentioned once in the LN that being around her is a little hard on other Electromasters. She passively controls electricity in a wide area around her, which makes it harder for them to use their power.
Lunaryon
Dual Aurora Wave
- Pronouns
- She/Her
...And where would you put Level one at being?
Well I already put it for a general power
For the OC's power to be level one, maybe just being able to do the emiba thing she did on AIM cameras? Even the ability to give some information on a person's esper abilities would probably be a 2.
Maybe if her ability could only envelop and tell her the ability of only certain psychometrics and taking a decent amount of time to get the information. So if it was limited to a small amount of psychometrics and no copying.
If you wanted to downgrade the ability to a mid/high level 2 then maybe have the past ability be too blurry to make out much details or she doesn't get an image but a general shape of things in the past. Or note it to only work when everything is still around (so nothing can be missing). Or limit the max time to upto 15 minutes ago. Or Limit her copying to only work for a short amount of time before needing to be re-copied. Or limit her to having to have been around the area at the time. Or limit her to be unable to move her perspective from the position she started in.
With her current power it seems too strong for a level 2. She can grab important info, detect lies (on the recent past for day to day use), get info at a crime scene etc. etc.
Though even with her low stats its should be quite fair to have her start at level 3, considering level upper.
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Lunaryon
Dual Aurora Wave
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I had thought about altering Hanako's ability, but I think I've come up with a far simpler answer.
This was the cheap System Scan of a school who even their Level 4 is... underwhelming.
While Kihara Kori was the one to do the test, which did allow for a bit better to come from it, it's still way to cheap of a test to get the kind of results that would best see just how far you have developed.
I'll add something into the start of the next update when she schedules your next System Scan so that she can try and get a better idea of just where your ability actually sits.
This was the cheap System Scan of a school who even their Level 4 is... underwhelming.
While Kihara Kori was the one to do the test, which did allow for a bit better to come from it, it's still way to cheap of a test to get the kind of results that would best see just how far you have developed.
I'll add something into the start of the next update when she schedules your next System Scan so that she can try and get a better idea of just where your ability actually sits.
FoolsandTools
Post-Depression Panic
- Location
- Spiritually Lost
Honesty dob I think your mistaking things power level wise. To generalise I'd say level 1 is "usable power" level 2 is "reliable power" level 3 is "combat power" level 4 is "decisive power" and level 5 is "overwhelming power"
We've been rated level 1, "usable" so to speak. Our power is indeed useful but we're not reliable because our energy pool is small, that specifically being our draw back. Compare Uiharu, whose power is "thermal hand", it can be used at any time, but lacks power, like, theoretically upping or downing the temperature of the thing in her hands. The three deciding factors so to speak "power" "endurance" "control". Conversely instead of having an energy pool, or being constantly available but weak, another level 1 could have a good ability, say, teleportation, could have a limitation on how long they have to touch an object before transporting it, or it takes alot of focus to do.
My point is we got drawbacks so no worries about the ranking.
We've been rated level 1, "usable" so to speak. Our power is indeed useful but we're not reliable because our energy pool is small, that specifically being our draw back. Compare Uiharu, whose power is "thermal hand", it can be used at any time, but lacks power, like, theoretically upping or downing the temperature of the thing in her hands. The three deciding factors so to speak "power" "endurance" "control". Conversely instead of having an energy pool, or being constantly available but weak, another level 1 could have a good ability, say, teleportation, could have a limitation on how long they have to touch an object before transporting it, or it takes alot of focus to do.
My point is we got drawbacks so no worries about the ranking.
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Level 1 generally just means observable and around as useful/Powerful as bending a spoon. Also implied it has to be 'usable and reliable enough to ever be able to be tested'.
Level 2 being more powerful than bending a spoon, but not useful enough to be considered good for day to day life.
Level 3 is around the power of something that it could be useful to day to day life. For example there is a level 3 whose power increases buoyancy. Most powers of this stage could be beaten by a decently trained gunman or could be around as good as a single trained professional in another way.
Level 4 is anything from 'as good as a couple people with guns' until they are almost at level 5 stage 'Beat an entire army or beat someone who can beat an entire army or defeat a country etc.'
If level 2 was just reliable then wouldn't Uiharu and the person who can control computers without keyboard/mouse both be level 2? Both work reliably if the person using them has energy, and espers do have a limit on the energy they can use for their abilities. Their level 1 because Uiharu saves about as much heat energy as bending a spoon (or maybe a little higher but over a longer period of time) and the other persons ability only stops them from needing to buy some low cost equipment for themselves (Basically useless, but an observable power).
Generally speaking espers have an energy pool, already talked about in thread.
a level 1 teleporter might be able to sort of judge the position of something their touching, maybe teleport a small bit of dust, maybe can only teleport into a vaccum.
Level 2 would be the ability to teleport something small a tiny distance, but not big enough or accurate enough thats its likely to be able to disable people by teleporting things inside of them (But may if they get lucky).
Level 3 teleporter might be able to disable/Kill/Immensely hurt someone in close range by teleporting something into them for low range level 3. With high range being the start of being able to teleport small devices like remotes, grenades. Perhaps being able to teleport without seeing.
Focus/Time taken/Nosebleeds are somewhat of a rank down but its not really a deal breaker. AIM stalker could only really use her ability by self-harming herself and requiring special equipment each time, but she has been level 4 for ages. Maybe you could argue that it should push her down to level 2 (as a precaution but scientists in academy city are rarely cautious or caring). But putting it down to level one is basically saying its as useful as bending a spoon or Uiharu's esper ability or being able to use a computer without keyboard/mouse. If it was uncontrollable or unreliable (Can't use it all the time even if she has energy) or unobservable (doesn't happen on demand) maybe it would be ranked down somewhat further.
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Uh, no, AIM Stalker is perfectly stable, the scientists gave her a dangerous doping drug made from the crystallized AIM fields of orphan children which boosts her halfway to Level 5 equivalent in exchange for doing serious permanent damage to her body.
The thing is, a nosebleed for a marginally useful ability with no stamina is going to have the school cautiously rank her as level 1: discernable power with no application.
Because every rank up means you get more allowance from the city and it'd be really awkward if they had to justify why you were ranked down because they misread your ability.
The thing is, a nosebleed for a marginally useful ability with no stamina is going to have the school cautiously rank her as level 1: discernable power with no application.
Because every rank up means you get more allowance from the city and it'd be really awkward if they had to justify why you were ranked down because they misread your ability.
FoolsandTools
Post-Depression Panic
- Location
- Spiritually Lost
The Sisters average out at level 2, they can generate at least 50,000 volts of electricity, 1/20th of Misakas signature technique, Unlike level upper and Accelerator, their linking up notably does not increase their ability, they can do loads of crazy stuff, proving their control, and their single known drawback is a lack in percieving electrons.
What your saying is that sisters noise should average about level 3 to 4 instead.
Yes but my words implied a limited energy pool.
Provably false, we didn't gain too much info but in the flashback episode featuring Uiharu and Kuroko we know Kuroko shouldn't be level 4 making her level 3 at the highest, at that level she was able to comfortably teleport Uiharu outside of a lockdowned building just outside of it while facing the floor under duress, having Uiharu turn roughly 180 degrees as well. Her sole noted weakness being self teleportation.
I think your downplaying level power a bit much.
Self teleportation is known to be especially difficult due to moving reference points in 10 dimensional mathematics, and Kuroko's teleportation requires physical contact. Teleporters below 3 probably can't teleport human sized masses at all though.
But ultimately Level isn't skill or power based, its a measure for how useful you are to the city. Which varies by whoever is doing the measuring.
FoolsandTools
Post-Depression Panic
- Location
- Spiritually Lost
Of course. But it should be kept in mind that potential usefulness, current usefulness, and data obtained wont decide level straight out. Someone with a one-of-a-kind ability won't become a level 5 out of principle, and with the many computation resources on hand, even a one-of-a-kind esper can have "expected parameters" for a given level especially with the existience of the Parameter List. Not to mention usefulness corellating to likelyhood of achieving Level 6, which loops it right back into power strength anyways.
Didn't see this I think. At anyrate as I said before, "power", "control", and "endurance". Both of the are relatively good at "endurance" and somewhat "control" but their "power" is lacking, to the point where they might not even have that much "endurance" they are also pretty single setting and single purpose. And my point still stands that if these register at lvl one and straight telepathy registers at level two then I don't see what makes our ablities overshadow them to the point of being considered a lvl 3. Even if you state that a higher level means more tests, any scientist can easily go "potential high level therefore more tests."
The potential applications of a power won't determine the level of it, to determine the level of a power, the parameters are what matters. Take for example the human body, two people of roughly the same musculature, one a swimmer and the other a martial artist. Just because a swimmer swims good and a martial artist can balance punch and sidestep doesn't make the martial artist more "physically able", because they're roughly the same musculature, and that's what the scientists are considering.