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An Extra Primarch

Should the Quest switch to a Narrative Base?

  • Yes, it will streamline things.

    Votes: 345 40.5%

  • No, I prefer the current system.

    Votes: 127 14.9%

  • Yes, but not until the Crusade begins/Prologue ends.

    Votes: 379 44.5%
  • Total voters
    851
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deadcrystal said:
As cool and interesting as turning people into Psykers is...there's an inherent problem with the increasing higher levels. Even if you could turn a million people into Beta Psykers, 999999 of them would explode into giblets/Daemons. Very few people can handle that kind of power. Gotta say no on these Perks. For now at least.
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Again, not really a problem since again we can just start off slow with a handful of weak psykers and then working out a program that works for finding people to create stable psykers. Really, the main problem with psykers is finding them before they become corrupted and ending up in the hands of people that would cause problems. Not really much of an issue for us. Even a handful of powerful pykers are pretty goddamn useful as anyone who has ever played amn W40k quest would tell you.

Also really annoyed with you implying that Serras would kill millions of people who couldn't handle the upper tiers of psyker powers instead of just freaking checking if they can handle it first.
 
deadcrystal said:
As cool and interesting as turning people into Psykers is...there's an inherent problem with the increasing higher levels. Even if you could turn a million people into Beta Psykers, 999999 of them would explode into giblets/Daemons. Very few people can handle that kind of power. Gotta say no on these Perks. For now at least.
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I think you're undervaluing these perks, not only do they increase Serras's and her allies psyker power by quite a bit (look at the numbers on those bonuses) it also gives us the chance to start our psyker corps. By picking at least the first available level we can start prototyping our training for large numbers of psykers and of course training psyker sniffers which allow us to find natural psykers with greater ease. This should make psykery in general safer and more effective, especially once we have enough trained up that the organization becomes hypothetically self-sufficient through either finding or possible even creating new psykers naturally.
 
My old vote is now invalid due to the change. Ive tentatively replaced diplo 100 with paragon, but that is a rather weak traot on its own.

Do people want to drop more esoteric perks to get the karma bonus, get something else, or stay as is?
 
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Alanek said:
Stop spreading misinformation!

We explicitly know how far we can safely raise their power! We aren't going to be exploding people!
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I'm not saying we're going to do it, I'm saying the number of people who can handle it are miniscule.

ShadowNic94 said:
I've been wanting Diviner since we first saw it. The reason being that it will allow us to see incoming threats, like the Ork WAAAGH! we know 'is building a dozen systems away' but we don't know when or if it is coming our way.
That and it ties in well IMO with Warp Whispers.
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It's...not really as powerful as you think it is.

ilbgar123 said:
You possess greater talents than normal in seeing the near-future, and can see both more accurately and further than most human diviners.
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'Near-future'

Fairly common Psyker trick is to get a glimpse of something a few seconds in advance. So this might be for a couple minutes instead. This is not the 'see looming threats weeks in advance perk' That's what WW is.

This is a 20 perk, the effect is minor, just like every other 20 perk. Minor stat bonus, not a gamechanger.

Red Bovine said:
Again, not really a problem since again we can just start off slow with a handful of weak psykers and then working out a program that works for finding people to create stable psykers. Really, the main problem with psykers is finding them before they become corrupted and ending up in the hands of people that would cause problems. Not really much of an issue for us. Even a handful of powerful pykers are pretty goddamn useful as anyone who has ever played amn W40k quest would tell you.

Also really annoyed with you implying that Serras would kill millions of people who couldn't handle the upper tiers of psyker powers instead of just freaking checking if they can handle it first.
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That's not what I meant. What I meant was that we wouldn't be getting the Psyker army some people seemed to think we would, as there are seriously diminishing numbers of people who can handle increasing numbers of power. Like, the the Perk to turn someone into a Beta psyker sounds neat...except the chance of actually meeting someone capable of handling it is pretty tiny. A perk you can't practically use is no perk at all.

WorldSlayer said:
I think you're undervaluing these perks, not only do they increase Serras's and her allies psyker power by quite a bit (look at the numbers on those bonuses)
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Oh the stat buffs are huge and I love them.

And if people's main attraction to the perks were the stat jumps I wouldn't have a problem with it.

It's the 'we'll make thousands of Psykers easy' I object to.

A Psyker Corps built out of the Witch Hunters is possible, yes, but even with Serras it would take decades to build something remotely significant. (Doesn't matter how quickly Serras learns, it takes years/decades for every normal Psyker to learn to safely control their power)
 
To add to the above, most people will likely never be more than a minor or a Zeta psyker. Some can be more than that and we can find those with the willpower that can wield Delta or Beta level and open that up to them, even better if we can upgrade or downgrade psyker, so that person born a Beta in power but can only handle Gamma can be made a a Gamma.
 
fro those who want a army of psykers we have to get over the corruption problem, we can make psykers, we can shield them from chaos to a degree, but they are not immune to chaos/corruption, just a lot more resistant to it. so rather not have a army of planetary level threat psykers which betas would be approaching. the main problem is the psyker's personal willpower
 
Void Stalker said:
To add to the above, most people will likely never be more than a minor or a Zeta psyker. Some can be more than that and we can find those with the willpower that can wield Delta or Beta level and open that up to them, even better if we can upgrade or downgrade psyker, so that person born a Beta in power but can only handle Gamma can be made a a Gamma.
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You can do that, yes.
 
tri2 said:
fro those who want a army of psykers we have to get over the corruption problem, we can make psykers, we can shield them from chaos to a degree, but they are not immune to chaos/corruption, just a lot more resistant to it. so rather not have a army of planetary level threat psykers which betas would be approaching. the main problem is the psyker's personal willpower
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Ideally we'd figure out how to craft Wards, but the Imperium won't figure out even the crudest of Wards for thousands of years yet, and only the Eldar really have them at this point.
 
@ShadowNic94 can you please replace diviner with toolkits?

As deadcrystal pointes out, diviner doesn't give us much at all. Diviner is not a pre req for anything, gives trivial stat boosts, and we are already upping our divination with the other traits. It doesnt actually unlock divination, unlike the manipulation perks.

What you are actually looking for is the Seer advanced skill or whatever we get at Psyker: Esoteric 200.

Toolbots would literally double our invention time. We can get up to 23 actions worth of stuff out of it! We are,probably not going to do that much, but it will still end up being 2 or 3 actions extra per turn. That is absolutely huge and cannot be replicated anywhere.
 
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Cytokinesis said:
@ShadowNic94 can you please replace diviner with toolkits?

As deadcrystal pointes out, diviner doesn't give us much at all. Diviner is not a pre req for anything, gives trivial stat boosts, we are already upping our divination with the other traits.

What you are actually looking for is the Seer advanced skill or whatever we get at Psyker: Esoteric 200.

Toolbots would literally double our invention time. We can get up to 23 actions worth of stuff out of it! We are,probably not going to do that much, but it will still end up being 2 or 3 actions extra per turn. That is absolutely huge and cannot be repkicated anywhere.
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why not support my plan? the more checks we pass the more exp we get.
 
^^
We go by line actually. All the plans are doing is mucking up the Tally.
veekie said:
[X] Psyker - Esoteric
[X] Invention - Necessity
[X] Invention - Practicality
[X] Invention - Extravagance
[X] Perception - People

[X] Speech: Diplomacy: 40 Perk. Paragon. You always do the right thing, even when it's hard. Provides a bonus to Speech Checks if you possess Karma.
[X] Forging: Gear: 60 Perk. Toolbots. They're not very smart, but they let you get more done. Invention actions count double. That is, one Invention action can be used to double-up on a Major Work, or for two slots of a Work or Minor Work.
[X] Education: Esoteric: 120 Perk. Smash It Open. You've done it! You figured out how to turn non-psykers into minor psykers (not even Zeta-level) or the reverse! Admittedly, this doesn't sound so impressive, but it's a major step. +100 to Psyker Checks. +25 to allied Psyker Checks. 3 of preceding Perks must be taken.
[X] Education: Esoteric: 140 Perk. Widen It. You've had a breakthrough again! Zeta-level and back is possible now! +150 to Psyker Checks. +50 to allied Psyker Checks. 4 of preceding Perks must be taken.
[X] Education: Esoteric: 160 Perk. Make It Bigger. Once again, you've had a breakthrough. Epsilon-level is possible now! +200 to Psyker Checks. +100 to allied Psyker Checks. 5 of preceding Perks must be taken.
[X] Education: Esoteric: 180 Perk. Jump the Gap. Even Delta-level psykers are possible for you to create or destroy at this point. +250 to Psyker Checks. +200 to allied Psyker Checks. 6 of preceding Perks must be taken.
[X] Level 20 Perk. Sleep Is No Longer Required. You've noticed that you seem to need less sleep as you age. Based on your analysis of your DNA, you suspect your body is adjusting to the all-nighters you pull with some regularity, as your growth has not slowed. +2 Major Actions.
[X] Level 25 Perk. Difficult... But I've Done It Before. You've accomplished things most would write-off as impossible. All Checks have their difficulty reduced by 50.


Here we go~
Grabbing the superdiplomacy one because if we're making strong psykers we need to be able to get through their thick skulls what not to try.
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Amended. Replaced diplo perk with correct diplo perk
 
tri2 said:
fro those who want a army of psykers we have to get over the corruption problem, we can make psykers, we can shield them from chaos to a degree, but they are not immune to chaos/corruption, just a lot more resistant to it. so rather not have a army of planetary level threat psykers which betas would be approaching. the main problem is the psyker's personal willpower
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Seriously, do people not freaking read the post? We don't have to start off with an army. We can just start off slow with maybe less than a dozen of the weakest psykers possible. At that point we can start training them and refining the teaching processes like we did when Serras rewrote nearly a third of a tactics boos written by our worlds best general. Afterwards we can likely look into trying to curb corruption and find ways to boost will power.

Also for the miilionth time, we can freaking hand pick who gets the powers and can just pick the people with the most willpower and least likely to abuse it.
 
Psyker: Manipulation: 20 Perk. Elementalist.
Psyker: Manipulation: 40 Perk. Element User. Must have Elementalist.
Psyker: Manipulation: 60 Perk. Elemental Manipulation. Must have Element User.
Psyker: Manipulation: 80 Perk. Elemental Control. Must have Elemental Manipulation.
Psyker: Manipulation: 100 Perk. Elemental Mastery. Must have Elemental Control.

Psyker: Willpower: 80 Perk. Will of Adamantium. Must have Will of Titanium.
Psyker: Willpower: 100 Perk. Unbreakable Will. Must have WoT and WoA.

Psyker: Esoteric: 60 Perk. Warp Whispers.
Psyker: Esoteric: 80 Perk. Warp Messages. Must have taken WW.
Psyker: Esoteric: 100 Perk. Warp Chats. Must have taken WM.

Psyker: All: 100 Perk. Murphy's Enforcer. Must have all other Psyker: 100 Perks. Unlocks further Pysker Perks.

Figured I'd do the math out of curiosity. It will take 11 more perks in order to achieve Murphy's Enforcer.
 
tri2 said:
why not support my plan? the more checks we pass the more exp we get.
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Because single traits can give tremendously larger bonuses, and it gets us nothing new at the cost of 7 perks.

Sure, we pass more checks, but we are already crushing things with ease. Other perks give us more options to actually work with. Things we outright could not do with just higher checks.

I may support super genius when we get the all 25 perkxplosion, but not right now.
 
Red Bovine said:
Seriously, do people not freaking read the post? We don't have to start off with an army. We can just start off slow with maybe less than a dozen of the weakest psykers possible. At that point we can start training them and refining the teaching processes like we did when Serras rewrote nearly a third of a tactics boos written by our worlds best general. Afterwards we can likely look into trying to curb corruption and find ways to boost will power.

Also for the miilionth time, we can freaking hand pick who gets the powers and can just pick the people with the most willpower and least likely to abuse it.
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Plus you can shut down anybody you make a psyker with approximately the same difficulty associated with snapping one's fingers.
 
[x] Education: General: 40 Perk. Intriguing... Your knowledge opens doors that might otherwise be closed. Provides a +10 bonus to Medicine, Forging, and Combat.
[x] Education: General: 60 Perk. I Know Lots of Things! Your knowledge base allows you to make connections most people can't. Provides a +10 bonus to Perception, Electronics, Explosives, Psyker, and Invention Checks.
[x] Education: General: 120 Perk. Genius. You are quite simply, the mental superior of most people. You can figure things out no one else would ever guess the solution for. +25 to Perception, Electronics, Explosives, Psyker, and Invention Checks. Must have 4 of preceding Perks.
[x] Education: General: 140 Perk. Genius Among Geniuses. Even among other geniuses, you are a mental giant. Problems that would stump a genius for weeks, you can solve in minutes. +25 to all Skill Checks. Must have Genius.
[x] Education: General: 160 Perk. Supergenius. Even among geniuses, you are a prodigy, a one in a billion intellect. Problems that have stumped scientists for years, you solve in a week. +50 to all Skill Checks. Must have GAG.
[x] Education: General: 180 Perk. Mega-Genius. You are a one in ten billion intellect. You solve problems that have left scientists sobbing in despair in weeks. +100 to all Skill Checks. Must have Supergenius.
[x] Level 20 Perk. Sleep Is No Longer Required. You've noticed that you seem to need less sleep as you age. Based on your analysis of your DNA, you suspect your body is adjusting to the all-nighters you pull with some regularity, as your growth has not slowed. +2 Major Actions.
[x] Level 25 Perk. Difficult... But I've Done It Before. You've accomplished things most would write-off as impossible. All Checks have their difficulty reduced by 50.
 
Education: Esoteric: 200 Perk. Bridge the Gap. You can create or destroy Beta-level psykers now, but you doubt you'll accomplish anything more in this field. Any greater of a connection would risk simply destroying a soul which did not originally possess it. Besides, Beta-levels are already one in a million, for people that have the willpower to stay uncorrupted, so it's not like you'd be able to make a whole lot of Alpha-levels if you could.
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[Taken] Education: Esoteric: 100 Perk. Force The Door. You think you've figured out how to widen the 'doorway' or close it a bit. You can't make someone who wasn't a psyker in the first place into one, but you can provide a small permanent boost to those with the control to remain uncorrupted, or the reverse to those who are at risk or corrupted. Huh, is this how Warp Horrors strengthen corrupted psykers? + 80 to Psyker Checks, and +10 to allied Psyker Checks. 2 of Education: Esoteric Perks 40, 60 or 80 must be taken.
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So, yeah. We can pretty much choose correctly who to give more power to. And we have a number of 1 in a million for people who can become a beta rank psyker.

This is honestly the most powerful choice we can take. Grand crusade or 40k armies number in the millions. Beta rank psykers, especially ones that are stable? you're not going to find even one in a billion that didn't die/get corrupted.

Sadly, from the plans, we're going to have to wait at least one more perk point to get the 200 perk, but even so it's pretty clear that we can make psykers of other ranks at a rate greater than one in a million.
 
Alanek said:
So, yeah. We can pretty much choose correctly who to give more power to. And we have a number of 1 in a million for people who can become a beta rank psyker.

This is honestly the most powerful choice we can take. Grand crusade or 40k armies number in the millions. Beta rank psykers, especially ones that are stable? you're not going to find even one in a billion that didn't die/get corrupted.

Sadly, from the plans, we're going to have to wait at least one more perk point to get the 200 perk, but even so it's pretty clear that we can make psykers of other ranks at a rate greater than one in a million.
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We are going to want to start small with this to iron out the bugs before using it on the rare person with the will to be a Beta, so as long as we get some of the perks we can start the long term project the coming turn though doing an SL with the witchhuntrt and our psyker teacher who is willpower trainer would likely help that.
 
too bad we can't use biomancy to increase willpower via brain alteration and manipulation for soul alteration
 
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