An Extra Primarch

WorldSlayer · Sep 25, 2017

[X] Cytokinesis

Yeah I don't really see the need for the highest levels immediately, although admittedly those large bonuses for the checks are quite attractive. Regardless I agree with your assessment that the rumor mill will likely be of more use for the coming turn.

Void Stalker said:
Okay for crystals my suggestions are
This turn: 5 to power, end turn power 48
Next turn:2 to power, 3 to control, power 51 (ends at 56 thanks to the auto +1), control 30
Three turns from now: 5 to combat gives us combat 25
After that I would suggest 5 to control each turn until we reach 50 then move to combat to boost that to 50. It does delay combat for two turns but it makes out our power stat.

It would be more efficient to go with what I proposed previously putting 2 into power and 3 into control resulting in power 45 and control 30 breakpoints and then next turn an additional 4 into power (which with +1 from powerful psyker) which will give power 50 and the paragon trait and allow for a final Power of 55.

I recommended this partly because getting the Power 50 paragon trait roughly 6 turns early will likely be extremely helpful in the case of enemy Ork Waaagh and quite possibly aid in other local projects that we might not otherwise be able to do in the tutorial stage. Also if we don't take advantage of the Powerful Psyker trait's ability to automatically boost Power without checks it's quite possible we will never manage to boost Power past 50 simply due to the fact that the difficulty of the checks make it not worth attempting in comparison to what would otherwise be more worthwhile actions.

I suspect the difficulty in boosting Power past 50 will also apply to other Primarchs and even the Emperor and having the bragging rights of being the most powerful psyker in the galaxy seems quite attractive to me.

Beyogi · Sep 25, 2017

Alectai said:
High Control doesn't make you immune to Chaos. Even perfect control doesn't. Because Corruption Points can be gained by reckless Psykery, but that isn't the only source of getting some.

By dint of simply the kinds of foes Psykers are best equipped to handle, you gain Corruption Points, and those are extraordinarily hard to get rid of. Hell, even something as simple as 'Getting scared by a Daemon' is enough to give you Corruption Points.

Well, we've skilled willpower a lot. So it shouldn't be much of an issue. Especially if we level the advanced skill. I mean at this point greater demons aren't enough anymore.

Alectai · Sep 25, 2017

Not referring to our character. I'm referring to the ones we raise up.

Cytokinesis · Sep 25, 2017

Beyogi said:
Well, we've skilled willpower a lot. So it shouldn't be much of an issue. Especially if we level the advanced skill. I mean at this point greater demons aren't enough anymore.

For US.

That has shit all to do for the psykers we train. We dont need the highest levels first, and we can get them next turn if people want them so damn badly.

What we CANNOT get back, is the extra actions we miss from toolbot or the warnings/info from the rumor mill that could save our asses. We would also miss out on a +600 to speech checks, which is way too good to pass up.

ilbgar123 · Sep 25, 2017

WorldSlayer said:
[X] Cytokinesis

Yeah I don't really see the need for the highest levels immediately, although admittedly those large bonuses for the checks are quite attractive. Regardless I agree with your assessment that the rumor mill will likely be of more use for the coming turn.

It would be more efficient to go with what I proposed previously putting 2 into power and 3 into control resulting in power 45 and control 30 breakpoints and then next turn an additional 4 into power (which with +1 from powerful psyker) which will give power 50 and the paragon trait and allow for a final Power of 55.

I recommended this partly because getting the Power 50 paragon trait roughly 6 turns early will likely be extremely helpful in the case of enemy Ork Waaagh and quite possibly aid in other local projects that we might not otherwise be able to do in the tutorial stage. Also if we don't take advantage of the Powerful Psyker trait's ability to automatically boost Power without checks it's quite possible we will never manage to boost Power past 50 simply due to the fact that the difficulty of the checks make it not worth attempting in comparison to what would otherwise be more worthwhile actions.

I suspect the difficulty in boosting Power past 50 will also apply to other Primarchs and even the Emperor and having the bragging rights of being the most powerful psyker in the galaxy seems quite attractive to me.

The Emperor's lowest Stat is 55.

somewhatLazy · Sep 25, 2017

If you would like to hear the opinon of a lurker...

This quest is good, but... I kind of feel like you're giving out too much XP too fast. Perhaps if you slow that down, this would be a great quest, not just good.

Thule · Sep 25, 2017

[x] ShadowNic94

Somebodynobody10 · Sep 25, 2017

somewhatLazy said:
If you would like to hear the opinon of a lurker...

This quest is good, but... I kind of feel like you're giving out too much XP too fast. Perhaps if you slow that down, this would be a great quest, not just good.

I think things will become more difficult when we reach the galactic stage.

I'm waiting in horror for a Warboss with 100 in all Combat - Advanced...

ShadowNic94 · Sep 25, 2017

ilbgar123 said:
The Emperor's lowest Stat is 55.

......

! Okay then. Minimum of Paragon in every stat. Holy shit!

jwolfe_beta · Sep 25, 2017

[x] ShadowNic94

Cytokinesis · Sep 25, 2017

@ShadowNic94 we dont need the diplomacy 60 or 80 traits to get the 100 one. You are spending a lot of perk points for incremental gain and getting hit by a big opportunity cost from missing the other goos perks.

+600 to speech from the 100 perk is enough to crush most things for now.

WorldSlayer said:
[X] Cytokinesis

Yeah I don't really see the need for the highest levels immediately, although admittedly those large bonuses for the checks are quite attractive. Regardless I agree with your assessment that the rumor mill will likely be of more use for the coming turn.

It would be more efficient to go with what I proposed previously putting 2 into power and 3 into control resulting in power 45 and control 30 breakpoints and then next turn an additional 4 into power (which with +1 from powerful psyker) which will give power 50 and the paragon trait and allow for a final Power of 55.

I recommended this partly because getting the Power 50 paragon trait roughly 6 turns early will likely be extremely helpful in the case of enemy Ork Waaagh and quite possibly aid in other local projects that we might not otherwise be able to do in the tutorial stage. Also if we don't take advantage of the Powerful Psyker trait's ability to automatically boost Power without checks it's quite possible we will never manage to boost Power past 50 simply due to the fact that the difficulty of the checks make it not worth attempting in comparison to what would otherwise be more worthwhile actions.

I suspect the difficulty in boosting Power past 50 will also apply to other Primarchs and even the Emperor and having the bragging rights of being the most powerful psyker in the galaxy seems quite attractive to me.

We only need 1 powe point to get to 50. Stats only seem to matter in increments of 10 and 25. There is no reason to spend an extra power point to get to 45 when it will leave us with 51 power to end.

We can rush to 50 for the orcs, but I think combat 25 and the all-25 giving us 25+ morr perks would actually support us better

Somebodynobody10 · Sep 25, 2017

Cytokinesis said:
@ShadowNic94 we dont need the diplomacy 60 or 80 traits to get the 100 one. You are spending a lot of perk points for incremental gain and getting hit by a big opportunity cost from missing the other goos perks.

+600 to speech from the 100 perk is enough to crush most things for now.

We only need 1 powe point to get to 50. Stats only seem to matter in increments of 10 and 25. There is no reason to spend an extra power point to get to 45 when it will leave us with 51 power to end.

We can rush to 50 for the orcs, but I think combat 25 and the all-25 giving us 25+ morr perks would actually support us better

Um. Shouldn't we just rush power with those Crystals now when we can in hopes of getting to 60?

ShadowNic94 · Sep 25, 2017

Cytokinesis said:
@ShadowNic94 we dont need the diplomacy 60 or 80 traits to get the 100 one. You are spending a lot of perk points for incremental gain and getting hit by a big opportunity cost from missing the other goos perks.

I believe that the QM has just forgotten to add in the required Perks at the end of the description as he did with the previous Perks.

ilbgar123 said:
Speech: Diplomacy: 40 Perk. Paragon. You always do the right thing, even when it's hard. Provides a bonus to Speech Checks if you possess Karma.

Speech: Diplomacy: 40 Perk. Renegade. You always get results, even if others hate your methods. Provides a bonus to Speech Checks if you possess Infamy.

Speech: Diplomacy: 60 Perk: White-tongued. You are the positive equivalent of the charismatic leader of a cult. Provides a bonus to Speech Checks equal to Karma. Must have Paragon. Mutually exclusive with Black-tongued.

Speech: Diplomacy: 60 Perk. Black-tongued. There isn't all that much difference between you and that cult leader... Provides a bonus to Speech Checks equal to Infamy. Must have Renegade. Mutually exclusive with White-tongued.

Speech: Diplomacy: 80 Perk. I Still Believe. You know people can change, they just need to try. Provides a bonus to Speech Checks twice that of Karma. Requires White-tongued.

Speech: Diplomacy: 100 Perk. Second Chance. Even the vilest person can become a good person, they just have to want to. Provides a bonus to Speech Checks thrice that of Karma.

Cytokinesis · Sep 25, 2017

Somebodynobody10 said:
Um. Shouldn't we just rush power with those Crystals now when we can in hopes of getting to 60?

We would have to do it over the next two turns and it would only get us to 58.

It could be worthwhile, but we better go all in or not at all rather than doing 2.

Alanek · Sep 25, 2017

[x] Veekie

Cytokinesis · Sep 25, 2017

ShadowNic94 said:
I believe that the QM has just forgotten to add in the required Perks at the end of the description as he did with the previous Perks.

Past perk patterns say it could go either way.

Even if you are right, we should at least gst toolbots instead of diplo 100. Action economy owns all, and more projects also means more exp.

@ilbgar123 Did you forget, or is there actually no pre req?

Enthusiast#117 · Sep 25, 2017

[X] Veekie

WinterLantern · Sep 25, 2017

ilbgar123 said:
The Emperor's lowest Stat is 55.

As in, level 255?

Fahk me.

[X] Psyker - Esoteric
[X] Invention - Necessity
[X] Invention - Practicality
[X] Invention - Extravagance
[X] Perception - People

[X] Speech: Diplomacy: 100 Perk. Second Chance. Even the vilest person can become a good person, they just have to want to. Provides a bonus to Speech Checks thrice that of Karma.
[X] Forging: Gear: 60 Perk. Toolbots. They're not very smart, but they let you get more done. Invention actions count double. That is, one Invention action can be used to double-up on a Major Work, or for two slots of a Work or Minor Work.
[X] Education: Esoteric: 120 Perk. Smash It Open. You've done it! You figured out how to turn non-psykers into minor psykers (not even Zeta-level) or the reverse! Admittedly, this doesn't sound so impressive, but it's a major step. +100 to Psyker Checks. +25 to allied Psyker Checks. 3 of preceding Perks must be taken.
[X] Education: Esoteric: 140 Perk. Widen It. You've had a breakthrough again! Zeta-level and back is possible now! +150 to Psyker Checks. +50 to allied Psyker Checks. 4 of preceding Perks must be taken.
[X] Education: Esoteric: 160 Perk. Make It Bigger. Once again, you've had a breakthrough. Epsilon-level is possible now! +200 to Psyker Checks. +100 to allied Psyker Checks. 5 of preceding Perks must be taken.
[X] Psyker: Esoteric: 60 Perk. Warp Whispers. You can hear whispers of things to come, or things long past. Gain Galactic Rumor Mill. Add visions of the distant past and future to RER table.
[X] Level 20 Perk. Sleep Is No Longer Required. You've noticed that you seem to need less sleep as you age. Based on your analysis of your DNA, you suspect your body is adjusting to the all-nighters you pull with some regularity, as your growth has not slowed. +2 Major Actions.
[X] Level 25 Perk. Difficult... But I've Done It Before. You've accomplished things most would write-off as impossible. All Checks have their difficulty reduced by 50.

Red Bovine · Sep 25, 2017

Void Stalker said:
One thing for the education esoteric perks is that we will want to likely first start with creating minor or zeta psyker in small numbers since we will want to be able to figure out who has the willpower to be a psyker and if something goes wrong they are much easier to deal with. If you note in the 200 perk it mentions the rarity of those with the willpower to be a Beta level psyker. So start low and figure out how it works and then see if we can improve willpower and control for everyone so we have a bigger pool to draw on. Also any psyker we create will need to be taught psyker skills so creating a large number will overwhelm the current teachers, instead a slow but steady stream to build up their numbers would work best

This I agree with, psykers are likely going to take a while to set up set up since we are likely going to want to set up a few things for them like creating programs to find people that would make the most stable psykers, training and training more teachers to train larger number of psykers. Hence why I think we should really at least get the perk that lets create weak psykers since we would be able to start creating programs for creating stable psykers.

Psykers are massive are collosal assets but being able to make stable psykers is a massive game changer. Especially since they have shown to be able to make things like conceptualized crystals which can boost people.

ilbgar123 · Sep 25, 2017

Cytokinesis said:
Past perk patterns say it could go either way.

Even if you are right, we should at least gst toolbots instead of diplo 100. Action economy owns all, and more projects also means more exp.

@ilbgar123 Did you forget, or is there actually no pre req?

Fixed.

aattss · Sep 25, 2017

I'm now mildly confused by which voting plans are which.

[X] Veekie

Edit: are we going towards get as much power as we can before it hits 50 and becomes much harder to grind, or are we going towards the all 25/30 control?

WorldSlayer · Sep 25, 2017

Cytokinesis said:
We only need 1 powe point to get to 50. Stats only seem to matter in increments of 10 and 25. There is no reason to spend an extra power point to get to 45 when it will leave us with 51 power to end.

We can rush to 50 for the orcs, but I think combat 25 and the all-25 giving us 25+ morr perks would actually support us better

The end goal was Power 55 (Power 45 next turn, 50 the turn after, 55 at the end of maturation).

Early paragon trait and the rare chance to easily push a stat above 50 seems well worth the effort.

It's also something we can only do this turn and next turn (need to push 6 points total into power and the most cost efficient way to do that is 2 this turn and 4 next turn in order to hit break points) since otherwise we won't have enough time to push to 55 and will have to settle for 50 (or 53 or so, regardless we won't be able to hit the juicy break point of 55 without having to go to either tremendous effort or finding a new method of boosting stats).

deadcrystal · Sep 25, 2017

Okay, currently trying to work out what's the most efficient and relevant perks to pick up now. Might try and hash a plan together, might just vote for one but my thoughts so far on the trees we've specced into (Ignoring perks from stuff we've barely touched because the higher perks are drool-worthy)

Education: General

Lookat dose sweet sweet bonuses to basically everything. Freaking delicious. Buuuut with the other things we have access to this turn? I'd depreciate it.

Education: Esoteric

As cool and interesting as turning people into Psykers is...there's an inherent problem with the increasing higher levels. Even if you could turn a million people into Beta Psykers, 999999 of them would explode into giblets/Daemons. Very few people can handle that kind of power. Gotta say no on these Perks. For now at least.

Psyker: All 100

Want this so badly, not just for massive bonus, but also for unlocking higher Psyker perks. But hooo boy it's gated behind a lot of Perks. 10 of them. Thankfully they're ones we'd want anyway, but yeah.

Psyker: Manipulation - Elemental

Five Perks to pick up there. Again though, as cool as blowing shit up with fire, ice, and lightning is...it doesn't enable the big changes and opportunities that the tech and bio manip trees did. Will need to pick them up for the 100 perk, but not an immediate priority.

Psyker: Willpower

Two perks to pick up here, both for the 100 perk and because we'd want them anyway. As much as I love willpower and think we need them personally...I think we'll have to forego these for another perk vote.

Psyker: Esoteric

Three perks needed for the 100 perk here. WW super necessary at this point just for galactic rumours and some hopeful warning of threats approaching our system. WM and WC less relevant because we still don't have anyone to actually contact with them atm.

Speech: Diplomacy

Four Perks here in the positive Karma side (Since we're Reasonable Personable Primarch) for preposterous bonus to speech checks.

Level 20 and 35 perks

Let's be honest these are just a given. Gods these are nice.

Taking all that, and the fact we have eight perk points here...

Mandatory:

-20
-25
-WW

@ShadowNic94 Maybe drop Diviner there for a different Psyker perk towards the 100 perk? Diviner really not doing much for us. (Willpower one maybe?)
@veekie Can't get the Speech 100 Karma perk without prior ones, it's just an error in the description.

[X] ShadowNic94

Alanek · Sep 25, 2017

deadcrystal said:
As cool and interesting as turning people into Psykers is...there's an inherent problem with the increasing higher levels. Even if you could turn a million people into Beta Psykers, 999999 of them would explode into giblets/Daemons. Very few people can handle that kind of power. Gotta say no on these Perks. For now at least.

Stop spreading misinformation!

We explicitly know how far we can safely raise their power! We aren't going to be exploding people!

ShadowNic94 · Sep 25, 2017

deadcrystal said:
@ShadowNic94 Maybe drop Diviner there for a different Psyker perk towards the 100 perk? Diviner really not doing much for us. (Willpower one maybe?)

I've been wanting Diviner since we first saw it. The reason being that it will allow us to see incoming threats, like the Ork WAAAGH! we know 'is building a dozen systems away' but we don't know when or if it is coming our way.
That and it ties in well IMO with Warp Whispers.

An Extra Primarch

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Yes, it will streamline things.

No, I prefer the current system.

Yes, but not until the Crusade begins/Prologue ends.

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