- Location
- Asia
Isn't he like fourth son of Bethany Rosby and Walder ? How is he going to inherit Rosby ?
Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest
- Thread starter Charcolt
- Start date
Isn't he like fourth son of Bethany Rosby and Walder ? How is he going to inherit Rosby ?
- Location
- United States
Betrothing Rickon (who's either six or seven at this time) to Fat Walda is blatantly screwing over our younger brother here. She has eleven years on him. By the time Rickon hits puberty he'd have a very small window with Fat Walda to safely have children, and it's only with having children that the claim to the Twins is secured.
He likely wouldn't get a prestigious position at Rosby or even be named heir, but with us offering him his own keep (even in the middle of nowhere) I'm pretty sure he'd accept. It'd be different if he was actually the heir of Rosby, but he isn't.
Also, @Charcolt, if we promise a keep to the Freys, are we allowed to specify that it goes to Olyvar alone?
Okay then. See Arya be the healing influence that makes Joffrey a good person.
The same way most people inherit in these troubled times - be on the winner's side. I'm sure he'll have plenty of time to convince Robb on why he and his brother are clearly the better choice for Rosby.
After all, don't expect him to follow Robb around just because it's an 'honor'.
If you're worried about the order of inheritance itself, he could simply get the castle for his brother Perwyn and get a comfy landing somewhere nearby. Problem solved.
What makes you believe that all of a sudden Olyvar will give up all his goals and follow Robb to a keep in the middle of the North, in a foreign culture and without political leverage except "I squired for the King in the North, except nobody here cares about knights"?
Charcolt
Comic Fan
A position doesn't necessarily imply inheriting. Olyvar might serve as castellan or a household knight. It's lower status but has much nicer weather. Or he might end up serving at Winterfell, which would also be preferable to some. Given that Jeyne Poole is heiress to a dynasty of hereditary steward's, potential exists there. Not to mention potential castles in House Rosby's possession.
Reducing that offer (in a somewhat arbitrary way when Robb hasn't met Olyvar yet) to a single individual would reduce its value.
A write-in is valid, but if Robb genuinely proposes marrying Fat Walda to his toddler brother, Walder will be as confused as I am.
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- Location
- United States
It's mainly a gamble, just like walking into the Twins and negotiating in person was a gamble. Olyvar will feel personal loyalty to Robb for one thing, and even if he accepts Robb's offer of a keep that doesn't negate his claim to the Rosby keep. Should the succession fall to him he can split it up among his heirs, or if he chooses he can leave his heir in the north while he moves back south to take the Rosby keep as his own.
Well crap.
- Location
- United States
Okay, in light of the fact that we can't reserve the keep in the north for Olyvar alone without diminishing the offer's value:
@Meneldur @gladiusone @Versharl @Mal-3 @Evil Endures @killfr3nzy, once again heads up that I'm changing the plan so instead of offering the Freys a keep and land we do as Crimson Moon suggested and give them economic incentives instead. Also, @godofsmallthings heads up for the same. I would have liked to offer the keep to Olyvar alone, but that's just not an option. We'd probably get saddled with one of the many asshole Freys (and we'd likely deal with more problems with the Faith vs Old Gods).
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
-[X] Write-in Offer (1p)
You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
@Meneldur @gladiusone @Versharl @Mal-3 @Evil Endures @killfr3nzy, once again heads up that I'm changing the plan so instead of offering the Freys a keep and land we do as Crimson Moon suggested and give them economic incentives instead. Also, @godofsmallthings heads up for the same. I would have liked to offer the keep to Olyvar alone, but that's just not an option. We'd probably get saddled with one of the many asshole Freys (and we'd likely deal with more problems with the Faith vs Old Gods).
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
-[X] Write-in Offer (1p)
You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
Crack idea - marry Robb to Fat Walda.
Robb: "What? I like a woman with some meat on her bones! And have you seen those hips? Well, if they weren't covered in fat - childbearing, those are. No, Lord Walder, keep the dowry, I insist. Man, canon Roose is going to be so jealous as I NTR him with his fat waifu..."
It's not like there aren't any decent Freys other than Olyvar - he isn't the only one Walder kept from the Red Wedding.
Robb: "What? I like a woman with some meat on her bones! And have you seen those hips? Well, if they weren't covered in fat - childbearing, those are. No, Lord Walder, keep the dowry, I insist. Man, canon Roose is going to be so jealous as I NTR him with his fat waifu..."
It's not like there aren't any decent Freys other than Olyvar - he isn't the only one Walder kept from the Red Wedding.
- Location
- United States
A fair point, but I think a big part of the value of offering a keep is that Walder is the one who decides which Frey it goes to rather than us. That, and there's the argument that we can always offer a keep to the good Freys that survive the wars after everything's said and done. Offering them economic incentives rather than lands and a castle seems like the safest bet for now and doesn't get us too entangled with them.
- Location
- Asia
I wouldn't say that it's that arbitrary. Getting to know the person you are bestowing upon, lands and a castle should be self explanatory.
As a liege lord, Robb would be more comfortable giving a castle in the heartlands of the North to his squire than a random Frey he has never met.
Can I get you to change your mind on reducing the value of the offer ?
Charcolt
Comic Fan
Robb will have plenty of time to get to know any number of Freys as they risk their lives fighting Tywin Lannister in his army.
And no, I can't put a shrunken offer at the same value as the full one. Otherwise you'd all just offer House Frey a pile of sticks and a betrothal to Rickon's left shoe.
- Location
- Tarn-Vedra
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
-[X] Write-in Offer (1p)
You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
-[X] Write-in Offer (1p)
You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
[X] Plan Keeping are Options Open
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother. (although if possible switch to Walda "The Heir" Frey)
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Brynden Tully (1p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Your great-uncle may not appreciate it, but Lord Frey has an unmarried daughter. (if possible Arwyn Frey 285 [Lord Frey's oldest daughter by Annara Farring, she possesses long black hair and a rather nasty looking sneer])
Let me explain my reasoning here:
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother. (although if possible switch to Walda "The Heir" Frey)
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Brynden Tully (1p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Your great-uncle may not appreciate it, but Lord Frey has an unmarried daughter. (if possible Arwyn Frey 285 [Lord Frey's oldest daughter by Annara Farring, she possesses long black hair and a rather nasty looking sneer])
Let me explain my reasoning here:
- The Squiring and The Fosterlings are obvious, low cost and get us two points.
- Rickon Stark lands us two points without any real commitment, although if we can get Rickon engaged to Walda "the Heir", it could lead to House Stark of The Twins.
- The Blackfish offer, I will explain Edmure may be heir to Hoster Tully, but he is currently a Lannister prisoner, if something happened to Edmure during the coming war (and Hoster dies of his illness), then Brynden Blackfish has a good chance of becoming the Lord of Riverrun and Lord Paramount of the Trident.
- My plan has all of the upside of Plan Minimal Contact, while using something more certain than economic considerations, which Walder might reject.
- This plan also means that we don't have to give out any land or Castles
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- Location
- Brazil
Except he hasn't met Olyvar nor has any idea of what would be his qualities as a person and retainer. And why would they value something as much after it was explicitly reduced from a gift to their family to just one person ?
- Location
- Asia
Okay. But this doesn't preclude Olyvar from being chosen, right ? He should still be one of the candidates that could get the castle ?
- Location
- Brazil
You gonna be a gigantic awful liar, because uh Edmure isn't and everyone knows. Arya is the low commitment one since she is missing and an unknown. Rickon is very much a betrothal like with Bran since everyone knows where he is and what's going on with him. Also. Blackfish. Married. To a random 15. Are you serious?
- Location
- USA
Ugh, don't we kind of need this money? How much of reduced rates are we offering? We aren't the wealthiest Region around you know. Will this put some of the Northmen on hard times/out of work?
- Location
- United States
It's only a 10% discount, and we'll still end up profiting because of the increased business.
- Location
- USA
How will this affect the peasants though? As long as a large group of Northerners aren't going hungry in the winter it seems like it might be okay. I just don't wan to give the average joe in the North any reason to dislike House Stark, our status to them is pretty legendary. Or I may be making more out of it than it is.
Edit: Also, doesn't someone need to man those keeps. I imagine there are some upsides to putting some wealthy Freys up north. They may be good for business.
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Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
You are seriously wrong there.
Actually, if you check the description, Edmure is currently a Prisoner of Jamie Lannister (He was captured during the first Battle of Riverrun, then liberated during the Battle of The Camps).
True, I meant low commitment because it will years before the marriage can take place and by then we could probably pull because Walder will be long dead.
Let me explain, firstly the girl is 13 because this the year 298AC and she was born in 285AC and more importantly from the character description it sounds like she deserves it and as another point Brynden Blackfish to Arwyn Frey was just a suggestion.
Actually, if you check the description, Edmure is currently a Prisoner of Jamie Lannister (He was captured during the first Battle of Riverrun, then liberated during the Battle of The Camps).
True, I meant low commitment because it will years before the marriage can take place and by then we could probably pull because Walder will be long dead.
Let me explain, firstly the girl is 13 because this the year 298AC and she was born in 285AC and more importantly from the character description it sounds like she deserves it and as another point Brynden Blackfish to Arwyn Frey was just a suggestion.
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- Location
- The Holiest of Cities
Wow, I missed a lot during supper. At this rate I could have missed an entire wedding taking place...
Anyways, I guess we're on Plan Minimal Commitment 3.0, so:
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
-[X] Write-in Offer (1p)
You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
I would still prefer to have Rickon marry Walda 'The Heir' Frey rather than Perra, but I suppose it isn't critical. I don't think there's really a chance of Rickon getting the Twins.
I still would offer Freys a place in the North as well. The North would be a lot stronger if it had more population (see The Many Sons of Winter), and the Freys might have some use in that regard. No to mention bodies to throw before the Wildlings.
Anyways, I guess we're on Plan Minimal Commitment 3.0, so:
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
-[X] Write-in Offer (1p)
You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
I would still prefer to have Rickon marry Walda 'The Heir' Frey rather than Perra, but I suppose it isn't critical. I don't think there's really a chance of Rickon getting the Twins.
I still would offer Freys a place in the North as well. The North would be a lot stronger if it had more population (see The Many Sons of Winter), and the Freys might have some use in that regard. No to mention bodies to throw before the Wildlings.
- Location
- Brazil
I actually mean Brynden. He isn't. Succession is to go with Cat and then Brandon.
She deserves it? ... HAHAHAHAAH. Jesus there's something so wrong with saying that about a 14 and saddling her with marrying an old man that really really doesn't want her. It's 299. Need dies around this time.
Pulling out of a betrothal is a huge thing. See, in Westeros families are usually what people hold things by, that's how this whole hereditary system works.
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@Versharl
I did not fail to notice, I pointed out that it sounds bad. Instead of offering to marry his daughter, we are trying to push it on someone else first.
You are trying to seperate us marching south from Catelyn taking Tyrion. Edmure came to our aid, not the other way around. That we come to his is natural, not a favor that he should feel like he needs to repay by accepting a marriage.
I'm not sure how you managed to read that. I'm, not talking about WHY Sansa was married to Tyrion, I am talking about why Cersei had to went into an explanation that Sansa is technically a ward of the crown, and that since her brother (the head of the house after thier father's death) is a traitor at arms, the Crown has the legal right to marry her off to anyone it sees fit.
You are going to need to be a little more specific to say it is objectively wrong, when the Freys are smack dab between the North and the Riverlands. They have interests both ways, and family ties to both families since they are both related by Cat. Frey lucked out with a marriage to a branch of the Lannisters, was tempted by a false promise to the Martells. It's the rank he is after, and we can come in promising ourselves, or we can walk in and right away try and weasel out of anything by promising another. The latter runs the risk of offending him more than not offering a marriage in the first place.
Again, I don't agree with this. The deal was more than fair, as I've already explained. Robb went to war claiming that his father was innocent.
His father, who everyone knows was Robert's bestie, who everyone knows hated the Lannisters and thier hold over the king, is alleged to have plotted to give Stannis the crown. The Lannisters even have written proof in Ned's own hand! No one knows of the Twincest yet, and Frey has no obligation to join rebels in arms, especially when it seems like everything is over if he simply does nothing. Oh sure, he should have joined his lord and defended the Riverlands from the Lannister raids, and later invasion until the King's Peace was restored, but when Robb arrives to negotiate for help Frey has no obligation to go out of his way to help.
A marriage and a few hostaged Frey gives the Starks is hardly worthy of quoting Trump memes. A stratigic crossing point, a large army, a secure rear, in exchange for a marriage is not a bad deal. Especially when at the time Robb had dire need of all three.
[X] Plan Icefyre
I did not fail to notice, I pointed out that it sounds bad. Instead of offering to marry his daughter, we are trying to push it on someone else first.
You are trying to seperate us marching south from Catelyn taking Tyrion. Edmure came to our aid, not the other way around. That we come to his is natural, not a favor that he should feel like he needs to repay by accepting a marriage.
I'm not sure how you managed to read that. I'm, not talking about WHY Sansa was married to Tyrion, I am talking about why Cersei had to went into an explanation that Sansa is technically a ward of the crown, and that since her brother (the head of the house after thier father's death) is a traitor at arms, the Crown has the legal right to marry her off to anyone it sees fit.
You are going to need to be a little more specific to say it is objectively wrong, when the Freys are smack dab between the North and the Riverlands. They have interests both ways, and family ties to both families since they are both related by Cat. Frey lucked out with a marriage to a branch of the Lannisters, was tempted by a false promise to the Martells. It's the rank he is after, and we can come in promising ourselves, or we can walk in and right away try and weasel out of anything by promising another. The latter runs the risk of offending him more than not offering a marriage in the first place.
Again, I don't agree with this. The deal was more than fair, as I've already explained. Robb went to war claiming that his father was innocent.
His father, who everyone knows was Robert's bestie, who everyone knows hated the Lannisters and thier hold over the king, is alleged to have plotted to give Stannis the crown. The Lannisters even have written proof in Ned's own hand! No one knows of the Twincest yet, and Frey has no obligation to join rebels in arms, especially when it seems like everything is over if he simply does nothing. Oh sure, he should have joined his lord and defended the Riverlands from the Lannister raids, and later invasion until the King's Peace was restored, but when Robb arrives to negotiate for help Frey has no obligation to go out of his way to help.
A marriage and a few hostaged Frey gives the Starks is hardly worthy of quoting Trump memes. A stratigic crossing point, a large army, a secure rear, in exchange for a marriage is not a bad deal. Especially when at the time Robb had dire need of all three.
[X] Plan Icefyre
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