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Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest

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Duesal said:
So long as we stick to the letter of whatever agreements we make here they shouldn't betray us.
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Well, that, and not doing as badly in the war as the Starks were by RW time in canon. Robb never broke any agreements with Roose Bolton, after all.

[X] Plan Icefyre
Adhoc vote count started by VNodosaurus on Jul 13, 2017 at 7:57 PM, finished with 176 posts and 27 votes.
  • [X] Plan Minimal Commitment
    -[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
    -[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
    -[X] Write-in Offer (1p)
    [X] Plan Icefyre
    [X] Fostering - Winterfell
    [X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Robb Stark
    --[X] Roslin Frey
    [X] Plan Marriages for River crossings are dumb but I need the points.
    [X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey
    -[X] Fostering - The Crossing
    [X] Fostering - Winterfell
    [X] Vacant Keeps
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark
    [X] Plan Yonatan
    [X] Plan Minimal Commitment
    [X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey
    [X] Fostering - Winterfell
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark
    [X] Vacant Keeps
    [X] Plan Offering Even Less
    [X] Plan Keeping are Options Open
    -[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
    -[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Brynden Tully (1p)
    [X] Plan Keeping are Options Open V2
    -[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
    -[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Theon Greyjoy? (1p)
    [X] Plan This is a Crack Plan
    -[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
    -[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Robb Stark (3p)
    --[X] Fat Walda, and only Fat Walda, will do. Robb likes his women with meat on their bones - how else is he to keep warm on those cold winter nights? And those childbearing hips! Why, he could breed an army with hips like those at his disposal.
    ---[X] Suggested Results: Due to the shock of the sudden and completely unexpected marriage proposal, Fat Walda chokes to death on the tart she was stuffing down her gullet. Walder Frey, upon seeing his dream of marrying one of his children into a Lord Paramount's house come to fruition and then immediately turn to ash, suffers an aneurysm and dies on his chair as he unceremoniously voids his bowels. Robb, nonplussed that his meaty bride is dead, offers Lord Stevron his condolences for his losses and offers alternatives.
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
    ----[X] Write-in Offer (1p): You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
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The other thing that occurs to me is that Frey strikes me as the kind of person that wants what's best for himself.

The Red Wedding was because he, understandably (for the setting), took Rob breaking his promise as a personal insult.

But while giving his sons land in the North literally costs Rob nothing, from Frey's perspective it gives him a legal fiction to claim the North for his House so long as he sides with the Crown and wins. At the cost of three sons.
And even then if Frey stays loyal, I don't like the fact that the offer is open ended on who and how many. If we had assurance that we were getting sons that just wanted to get out from under Walder's thumb, then it would be great. But Frey could insist on a number of descendents who are loyal to him. Which is a nightmare longterm.

Get me those assurances and I'll change my vote back, but otherwise I don't like giving Frey reason to value our defeat or the opportunity to screw with us in victory.
 
Posting for Tally purposes
Adhoc vote count started by VNodosaurus on Jul 13, 2017 at 7:57 PM, finished with 176 posts and 27 votes.
  • [X] Plan Minimal Commitment
    -[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
    -[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
    -[X] Write-in Offer (1p)
    [X] Plan Icefyre
    [X] Fostering - Winterfell
    [X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Robb Stark
    --[X] Roslin Frey
    [X] Plan Marriages for River crossings are dumb but I need the points.
    [X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey
    -[X] Fostering - The Crossing
    [X] Fostering - Winterfell
    [X] Vacant Keeps
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark
    [X] Plan Yonatan
    [X] Plan Minimal Commitment
    [X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey
    [X] Fostering - Winterfell
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark
    [X] Vacant Keeps
    [X] Plan Offering Even Less
    [X] Plan Keeping are Options Open
    -[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
    -[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Brynden Tully (1p)
    [X] Plan Keeping are Options Open V2
    -[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
    -[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Theon Greyjoy? (1p)
    [X] Plan This is a Crack Plan
    -[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
    -[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Robb Stark (3p)
    --[X] Fat Walda, and only Fat Walda, will do. Robb likes his women with meat on their bones - how else is he to keep warm on those cold winter nights? And those childbearing hips! Why, he could breed an army with hips like those at his disposal.
    ---[X] Suggested Results: Due to the shock of the sudden and completely unexpected marriage proposal, Fat Walda chokes to death on the tart she was stuffing down her gullet. Walder Frey, upon seeing his dream of marrying one of his children into a Lord Paramount's house come to fruition and then immediately turn to ash, suffers an aneurysm and dies on his chair as he unceremoniously voids his bowels. Robb, nonplussed that his meaty bride is dead, offers Lord Stevron his condolences for his losses and offers alternatives.
    -[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
    ----[X] Write-in Offer (1p): You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
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Duesal said:
They were disloyal in canon because Robb was disloyal to them first. That's not going to a problem with us in control of Robb. So long as we stick to the letter of whatever agreements we make here they shouldn't betray us. Will they be whiny? Yes, they're Freys. They'll never not be whiny. There's a reason nobody likes them.
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Which is a good reason not to land more of them, specially somewhere where they'd suffer and cause hire the cultural shock. We really don't need more southron lords who keep the seven up in the north, not if we don't want massive headaches. If it was land south of the Neck, sure. Even Land close or sworn to the Manderlys would be fine. But that's not where the vacant land is.

Bribing them with our literal wood, while more expensive for a while would be cheaper in the long run. Even giving them straight up told to "cap" the proposal would likely be better than land north of the Neck.
 
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment

This plan is bad. But i can't do another one and frankly I would rather drop the quest than vote to marry a Frey.
 
Still open for another twelve hours or so. Some strong early support for Alexandra Dowling, while the fans of Wylla, Arianne, Daenerys, Margaery, Sansa, Myrcella, Shireen, DearGodFreyGenesSkipAGeneration, Dacey, Asha, or others still maintain a close if disunited lead. Let's see what happens!

Also: Keeping our options open.
 
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Oh, one extra thought, on Theon: getting him betrothed might have one unexpected advantage: It might his father take him even less seriously and less accepting, to his preventing him from actually going to that side though the means of exploiting that Ironborn are a bunch of assholes. `:p
 
Felius said:
Oh, one extra thought, on Theon: getting him betrothed might have one unexpected advantage: It might his father take him even less seriously and less accepting, to his preventing him from actually going to that side though the means of exploiting that Ironborn are a bunch of assholes. `:p
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Theon is useless to Balon already. Theon is the one who desperately wants to prove himself. The more you push him away from Ironborn costumes against his will, the more he will push back in a retarded way to try to disguise his daddy issues.
 
Felius said:
Which is a good reason not to land more of them, specially somewhere where they'd suffer and cause hire the cultural shock. We really don't need more southron lords who keep the seven up in the north, not if we don't want massive headaches. If it was land south of the Neck, sure. Even Land close or sworn to the Manderlys would be fine. But that's not where the vacant land is.

Bribing them with our literal wood, while more expensive for a while would be cheaper in the long run. Even giving them straight up told to "cap" the proposal would likely be better than land north of the Neck.
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If you check my plan you'll see that it's exactly what you're advocating for. I switched over from giving them land and instead I'm bribing them with wood.
VNodosaurus said:
Well, that, and not doing as badly in the war as the Starks were by RW time in canon. Robb never broke any agreements with Roose Bolton, after all.
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Roose is an entirely different case. He saw that the war wasn't going their way, and he intentionally threw his battles hard whilst preserving the forces of his own house. While the Freys only started planning the Red Wedding after Robb broke the marriage agreement, Roose was several steps ahead of them.
 
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[X] Plan Minimal Commitment

If we plan to be a man of our word and win the war, we should keep our marriage options open. You could argue that marrying Roslin will secure the Freys' loyalty and help us win the war that way, but I'm not convinced that Walder Frey won't stab us in the back anyway. Once an heir pops out of his daughter, we're completely disposable.

Quite frankly, I want nothing to do with the Freys at all and I would prefer anyone else. It really doesn't matter who. Margaery, Danaerys, Arianne, Asha/Yara, Val, Dacey, Wynafryd/Wylla, Alys, Lady Stokeworth, Loras, Moon Boy...
I give zero fucks but Robb can give as many as he wants, so long as it's not to a Frey. This shall be my only meaningful commitment to the waifu wars. I do so swear.
 
Walpurgis Knight said:
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment

If we plan to be a man of our word and win the war, we should keep our marriage options open. You could argue that marrying Roslin will secure the Freys' loyalty and help us win the war that way, but I'm not convinced that Walder Frey won't stab us in the back anyway. Once an heir pops out of his daughter, we're completely disposable.

Quite frankly, I want nothing to do with the Freys at all and I would prefer anyone else. It really doesn't matter who. Margaery, Danaerys, Arianne, Asha/Yara, Val, Dacey, Wynafryd/Wylla, Alys, Lady Stokeworth, Loras, Moon Boy...
I give zero fucks but Robb can give as many as he wants, so long as it's not to a Frey. This shall be my only meaningful commitment to the waifu wars. I do so swear.
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The true path has been revealed, Robb must become an anime protagonist and have a harem
 
Walpurgis Knight said:
Quite frankly, I want nothing to do with the Freys at all and I would prefer anyone else. It really doesn't matter who. Margaery, Danaerys, Arianne, Asha/Yara, Val, Dacey, Wynafryd/Wylla, Alys, Lady Stokeworth, Loras, Moon Boy...
I give zero fucks but Robb can give as many as he wants, so long as it's not to a Frey. This shall be my only meaningful commitment to the waifu wars. I do so swear.
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My main worry is that even with Roslin (by far the best of the options here) we run the risk of breeding Rosby frailty into the Stark's main line, which could hurt pretty badly in the long run. That, and if Robb's children get stuck with a Frey chin I'll be really mad.
 
Duesal said:
My main worry is that even with Roslin (by far the best of the options here) we run the risk of breeding Rosby frailty into the Stark's main line, which could hurt pretty badly in the long run. That, and if Robb's children get stuck with a Frey chin I'll be really mad.
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I shiver at the thought of a statue in the crypts with a Frey chin and narrow, weasely eyes.
 
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Duesal said:
If you check my plan you'll see that it's exactly what you're advocating for. I switched over from giving them land and instead I'm bribing them with wood.
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Which is exactly why I mentioning bribing them with literal wood.

Tel Janin Aman said:
The true path has been revealed, Robb must become an anime protagonist and have a harem
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You know, if you really wanted a harem Lord Frey might be willing to give us all eligible girls of appropriate age... :p
 
It's just, having to agree to a marriage alliance to cross a fucking bridge is absurd. I'm surprised No one fucking burned the Twins to the ground in the hundreds of years they've been around.

Then again Forrest Frey was probably one of the cooler lords in the Dance of Dragons. Loyal to the blacks despite having failed to win the Queen's hand in marriage (Looking at you, Cole) and had a badass lesbian wife.
 
Walter frey is the most asshole frey I could find. All the other freys have been ok but not complete and total assholes like him. It is just Walder and the environment he created and the person that he is.
 
Why do people think that Walder Frey will take the lumber offer? What does he need lumber for? And even if he DID need lumber for something, he already has plenty of money. Its prestige that House Frey lacks for, not coin.

Meanwhile, keeps isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be. Robb literally loses nothing by doing it, as those keeps were empty and so providing House Stark with nothing. I'd vote for plan Minimal Commitments if it wasn't for the fact that it has the silly lumber write in.

Teen Spirit said:
It's just, having to agree to a marriage alliance to cross a fucking bridge is absurd. I'm surprised No one fucking burned the Twins to the ground in the hundreds of years they've been around.

Then again Forrest Frey was probably one of the cooler lords in the Dance of Dragons. Loyal to the blacks despite having failed to win the Queen's hand in marriage (Looking at you, Cole) and had a badass lesbian wife.
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Its not just to cross a bridge. Walder Frey also has 4,000 men to offer, which would increase the size of Robb's host by 20%.
 
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King of Discord said:
[X] Plan Keeping are Options Open V2

This looks like it could be fun quest.
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You're welcome to read, but I'd ask you not to participate after what happened in my previous quests.

Prince Ire said:
Why do people think that Walder Frey will take the lumber offer? What does he need lumber for? And even if he DID need lumber for something, he already has plenty of money. Its prestige that House Frey lacks for, not coin.
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House Frey certainly doesn't need the money, though I think most would agree he's something of a greedy person. The joke answer is that he needs lumber to build houses for his infinite number of sons, but in truth it's more representative of the ties your building than anything else and would mean nothing without a marriage of some kind (which to Walder is the key foundation of any plan).

And he'll certainly make some money off of the deal. He'll certainly refurbish his castle with very expensive Ironwood to serve as a centuries-long reminder that House Stark respected and appeased House Frey.

And it looks like it's going to be Squiring Olyvar, Fostering the Walders, Betrothing Rickon, and the Write-in Option. I'll have the next update up shortly, it's a pretty simple one.
 
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3. Battle Plans
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    • The particulars of your arrangement come quickly enough. House Stark and House Frey will be joined in marriage. That marriage will not be yours (a feat which took every inch of your skills as a novice diplomat) but rather Rickon's, him being the brother most likely to continue the Stark line should you fall in battle. The girl in question is Lord Walder's great-great-granddaughter, one-year Rickon's senior. She was a profoundly plain looking child, which you supposed was the ceiling for most Freys. For your brother's sake, you prayed she would grow into some beauty.

    Furthermore, you are to open Winterfell to two of his grandsons (both named Walder) and take on his son Olyvar as your squire. That you are of the North and therefore not a knight somehow seems irrelevant to everyone involved in these dealings. Sensing his nearing acceptance, you capped it off with a gift of Northern Ironwood (durable, beautiful, and practically non-existent south of the Wolfswood) as "a token of House Stark's esteem, to last through the ages."

    Your mother and the assembled lords look only slightly flabbergasted when you emerge smiling, and inform them that you have reached an arrangement to see your men to the other side of the Green Fork with some 4,000 men of the Riverlands joining you. Mother grimaced when she learned of Rickon's betrothal, but nonetheless seemed pleased. "Lord Walder is infamously miserly. I suppose you must have caught him in a rare good mood."

    She probably didn't need to know that the core of your diplomatic victory was every Tully-related joke you'd ever heard from Theon. Besides, you would not leave your father's rescue or the necessity of safe passage to and from the North to Walder Frey's moods. Helman Tallhart would remain a guest of Lord Walder, joined by a garrison of four hundred swordsmen and archers.

    As the men of the North began to move and Helman Tallhart, you were introduced to your new squire. Olyvar was perhaps two years your senior, though you were of an equal height. His features were no handsomer than any Frey, but there was no malice in his slightly nervous expression; there was something of a resemblence to Perwyn, who you had learned was his older full brother and considered as a potential heir to the childless Lord Rosby. You would give him a chance to show his character. After all, no man had the power to choose his father.

    "Olyvar," you said with a nod as you extended your hand. "Robb Stark. I trust you know all the particulars and duties of being a squire?"

    He was an anxious looking fellow, but he took your hand and shook it firmly. "Yes, my lord. I'll try my best not to let you down."

    At that you smiled and clapped his shoulder. "That's all I can ask for. You'll catch on quickly, but I'll point out everyone important to know."

    Making friends and good cheer would have to wait though. You had made this deal, sold off your brother's future, so that he might have a chance to remember his father's face. The true Lord of Winterfell was still a prisoner in King's Landing, and so were your sisters. Standing in your way are nearly 40,000 Lannisters divided between two hosts.

    There is Lord Tywin's (~12,500 foot, ~7,500 horse) host waiting for you along the Green Fork (where he would have expected to intercept you without Lord Frey's assistance, and that of Ser Jaime besieging Riverrun (~12,000 foot, ~3000 horse). You yourself have a host of ~19,500 foot and ~4,000 horse, your ranks bolstered by the Frey alliance.

    More Riverlords will likely join you soon, or so you hope. The forces of House Mallister have been spotted by your scouts.

    You have some semblances of a plan in your mind. It would be a risk, parceling off your foot and a tenth of your horse to take Lord Tywin by surprise while the bulk of your army would march to liberate Riverrun (and your uncle Edmure) from the Kingslayer. With House Tully saved and the Kingslayer dead or beaten, you could join with your grandfather's remaining Rivermen and...

    Well, it'd all depend on the results of the battle. Surely after such a loss the Lannisters would sue for peace and return your family to you?

    In any case, there are a number of men among your ranks who still remember Robert's Rebellion. They represent decades of military experience, and are all too eager to share it. You've had other thoughts as well, though you are somewhat untested as a strategist.

    Your choice here, and the success or failure the Gods granted you, would decide everything.

    So what was it going to be?

    [] The Green Fork and the Whispering Wood
    [] Write-In Plan
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