Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest
- Thread starter Charcolt
- Start date
- Location
- Brazil
If you're all really refusing the prime opportunity to pair off Robb and Fat Walda, can I at least persuade you to betroth Sansa to her twin brother Fatthew Mcconaufrey?
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
Under, normal circumstances, you would be correct it would be Edmure>Catelyn>Robb>Brandon>Rickon>Sansa>Arya>Lysa>Robert Arryn>Brynden Blackfish. However circumstances are not normal (because of the War) the Riverlords may prefer both a Riverlander and a Man to lead them, so if Edmure dies, they may want Brynden Blackfish instead of Catelyn in charge.
Then why not back my plan, it is best around, as Walder Frey only gets one betrothal in the North, and he gets none of are land or money or Lumber. Additionally we really can't offer Edmure as he is currently a Lannister prisoner.
You say that sentence with the certainty of a person who believes Westeros has some kind of a functioning economic system.
I wonder where you got your information on the North's economy and timber industry, or on House Stark's current financial records.
I also wonder how you imagine this 10% discount to happen: Will House Stark pay the timber industry for the 10%, offer them some other financial benefits, or outright order them to suck up the loss while still selling at the new price? For that matter, how preciesly will we profit from increased business when House Frey buys timber? How much timber do you imagine them buying? Do you imagine this single House will now be buying so much more timber that the net sale of timber will increase compared to past years? Do you imagine them buying so much more timber that the combined sales will eclipse past years so much that even with a smaller profit margin, they will still make more profit?
Because I have to know how you came to the conclusion that we will see financial gain from giving them a discount. This isn't Walmart. We're not selling them timber, we have luggers sell them at a reduced cost because it suits our political and military goals.
We're not here negotiating some genius trade deal that would benefit both sides financially. We literally have no basis to assume that. We are here to bribe Lord Frey with money, lands and marriage alliances to support us with military force. If we could make a mutually beneficial trade deal, it would have happened already. Nothing changed, in the Northern economy, between a year ago when the realm was in peace and between today, when Robb Stark stands with an army outside the Twins in a hurry to cross South.
This is like a nation game where the first post is "I open trade relations with X" like this is Medieval 2: Total War and no one had trade up until 5 minutes ago.
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
If we are going to eschew both Fair Walda and Roslin, why not go for Alyx Frey (The daughter of Symond Frey and his Braavosi wife, there is a distinctly foreign look to her features, and she seems clever enough. She is also currently 16 so is of marriageable age).
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
If the Brynden Blackfish is a deal breaker, may I present this alternative plan:
[X] Plan Keeping are Options Open V2
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother. (although if possible switch to Walda "The Heir" Frey)
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Theon Greyjoy? (1p)
Theon is still your family's ward, and is something of a catch as Heir to Pyke (ignoring the whole Ironborn thing). He could say no, but perhaps he'd agree to a match with Fair Walda?
After all, a pretty wife might serve as an extra incentive to Theon to stay loyal to us and as he is the heir to Pyke, Walder Frey would be relatively happy.
Last edited:
- Location
- Europe
You have a bracket too many so the tally program won't register this.
Not that I actually disagree with you, the whole "we'll sell them cheaper timber" isn't exactly the most practical idea. However, I'm fairly certain that House Stark, being the Lord Paramounts of the North, have quite significant forests within their holdings. Whether the House harvest timber from these forests or whether we outsource this to private individuals whom we tax, there are various mechanisms to sell cheaper timber to the Freys if we do outsource it.
Firstly, we can demand that the tax for the harvesting of timber is paid in the form of timber, which we then sell to the Freys cheaper than market price. Secondly, we can lower the taxes paid by the individuals that sell timber to the Freys proportionally to the amount they sell. Demanding that they sell cheaper to the Freys isn't really an option, since doing so isn't really enforceable. Regardless, I doubt that this is necessary since we probably have our own forestry industry an can just sell the Freys some of our own timber supply at reduced prices. However, we do need to place a cap on the amount of timber the Freys can buy to their own private consumption, since they could otherwise exploit the discount.
Last edited:
- Location
- New York
[] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
[] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
[] Vacant Keeps (1p)
The North has no shortage of empty halls, and Lord Frey has no shortage of useless sons. An abandoned castle in the frozen North isn't the most attractive prospect to everyone, but it could be a good cap to any deal in progress.
The first two options are basically a net win for us. The third... well, the North really does have plenty of land. Not very many people, but if it's land the Freys want they won't find it too hard to get it.
[] Betrothal Offer - Brynden Tully (1p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Your great-uncle may not appreciate it, but Lord Frey has an unmarried daughter.
This is a trap, and the best way to get the Blackfish to stop respecting us. Remember what happened the last time his marriage was arranged? And not, I may note, to a Frey?
[] Betrothal Offer - Edmure Tully? (1p)
You have no rights over your uncle and he's a prisoner besides. Lord Walder knows that, so an offer to attempt strongarming Edmure should he be rescued isn't worth much.
[] Betrothal Offer - Theon Greyjoy? (1p)
Theon is still your family's ward, and is something of a catch as Heir to Pyke (ignoring the whole Ironborn thing). He could say no, but perhaps he'd agree to a match with Fair Walda?
Dubious for both, but Theon in particular poses a problem. The Ironborn didn't respect him even in canon, and marrying a Frey will drop their respect another two notches (one for greenlander, one for Frey). Edmure... the thing is, we have no authority whatsoever over him at the moment.
[] Fostering - The Crossing (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that your youngest brother Rickon be fostered at the Crossing.
If we really need an extra point... mind you, Rickon is four years old. Then again, with our mother not in Winterfell for the foreseeable future....
[] Betrothal Offer - Sansa Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has offered his grandson Steffon as a potential husband for your eldest sister.
[] Betrothal Offer - Arya Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has offered his youngest son Elmar as a potential husband for your youngest sister.
Absolutely opposed to betrothing either of our sisters to someone they haven't met.
[] Betrothal Offer - Robb Stark (3p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has offered your choice of his daughters and granddaughters (write-in).
[] Betrothal Offer - Brandon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has offered his granddaughter Cynthea as a potential wife for your eldest brother.
[] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
As to the big plays.... This may be one of the few chances we have to, so to speak, get something for Bran's betrothal rather than the other way around. With that and Bran being actually of a reasonable age for all those deals, unlike Rickon, a Bran betrothal is straight-up preferable. Our own betrothal is of course the biggest card we have, and playing it in exchange for a bridge crossing seems excessive. But then again, it's an alliance as well as a bridge.
I don't know whether the timber subsidies are plausible, but even if they are, we're one point short without either an Edmure betrothal or Rickon's fostering.
So that leaves the option of:
[t] Plan All Ones
-[t] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
-[t] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
-[t] Betrothal Offer - Edmure Tully? (1p)
-[t] Vacant Keeps (1p)
-[t] Write-in Offer - Wood subsidies (1p)
or, which I think is preferable because either an Edmure betrothal or a Rickon fostering is really inconvenient,
[X] Plan Apologies to Bran
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
-[X] Vacant Keeps (1p)
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Brandon Stark (2p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
[] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
[] Vacant Keeps (1p)
The North has no shortage of empty halls, and Lord Frey has no shortage of useless sons. An abandoned castle in the frozen North isn't the most attractive prospect to everyone, but it could be a good cap to any deal in progress.
The first two options are basically a net win for us. The third... well, the North really does have plenty of land. Not very many people, but if it's land the Freys want they won't find it too hard to get it.
[] Betrothal Offer - Brynden Tully (1p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Your great-uncle may not appreciate it, but Lord Frey has an unmarried daughter.
This is a trap, and the best way to get the Blackfish to stop respecting us. Remember what happened the last time his marriage was arranged? And not, I may note, to a Frey?
[] Betrothal Offer - Edmure Tully? (1p)
You have no rights over your uncle and he's a prisoner besides. Lord Walder knows that, so an offer to attempt strongarming Edmure should he be rescued isn't worth much.
[] Betrothal Offer - Theon Greyjoy? (1p)
Theon is still your family's ward, and is something of a catch as Heir to Pyke (ignoring the whole Ironborn thing). He could say no, but perhaps he'd agree to a match with Fair Walda?
Dubious for both, but Theon in particular poses a problem. The Ironborn didn't respect him even in canon, and marrying a Frey will drop their respect another two notches (one for greenlander, one for Frey). Edmure... the thing is, we have no authority whatsoever over him at the moment.
[] Fostering - The Crossing (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that your youngest brother Rickon be fostered at the Crossing.
If we really need an extra point... mind you, Rickon is four years old. Then again, with our mother not in Winterfell for the foreseeable future....
[] Betrothal Offer - Sansa Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has offered his grandson Steffon as a potential husband for your eldest sister.
[] Betrothal Offer - Arya Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has offered his youngest son Elmar as a potential husband for your youngest sister.
Absolutely opposed to betrothing either of our sisters to someone they haven't met.
[] Betrothal Offer - Robb Stark (3p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has offered your choice of his daughters and granddaughters (write-in).
[] Betrothal Offer - Brandon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has offered his granddaughter Cynthea as a potential wife for your eldest brother.
[] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
As to the big plays.... This may be one of the few chances we have to, so to speak, get something for Bran's betrothal rather than the other way around. With that and Bran being actually of a reasonable age for all those deals, unlike Rickon, a Bran betrothal is straight-up preferable. Our own betrothal is of course the biggest card we have, and playing it in exchange for a bridge crossing seems excessive. But then again, it's an alliance as well as a bridge.
I don't know whether the timber subsidies are plausible, but even if they are, we're one point short without either an Edmure betrothal or Rickon's fostering.
So that leaves the option of:
[t] Plan All Ones
-[t] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
-[t] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
-[t] Betrothal Offer - Edmure Tully? (1p)
-[t] Vacant Keeps (1p)
-[t] Write-in Offer - Wood subsidies (1p)
or, which I think is preferable because either an Edmure betrothal or a Rickon fostering is really inconvenient,
[X] Plan Apologies to Bran
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
-[X] Vacant Keeps (1p)
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Brandon Stark (2p)
Last edited:
- Location
- Cardassia Prime
Why do people want to give the Freys bases in the North to attack us from? Are people really convinced they're not going to betray us if they can, in addition to being morally corrupt untrustworthy people for the most part? Roslin only needs Robbs's child in order to make him and the Stark family irrelevant to Walder Frey if we start losing the war.
- Location
- New York
The 'bases' are highly unlikely to achieve a useful state before the war is over. They're abandoned castles with a population that has no prior Frey loyalty. And for Robb's son with Roslin to inherit, we need to not lose the war anyway, which is the reason marriage alliances are an issue in the first place. Then again, Walder Frey will backstab us regardless of such alliances if they particularly want to.
Last edited:
Someone had to write it. 
[X] Plan This is a Crack Plan
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Robb Stark (3p)
--[X] Fat Walda, and only Fat Walda, will do. Robb likes his women with meat on their bones - how else is he to keep warm on those cold winter nights? And those childbearing hips! Why, he could breed an army with hips like those at his disposal.
---[X] Suggested Results: Due to the shock of the sudden and completely unexpected marriage proposal, Fat Walda chokes to death on the tart she was stuffing down her gullet. Walder Frey, upon seeing his dream of marrying one of his children into a Lord Paramount's house come to fruition and then immediately turn to ash, suffers an aneurysm and dies on his chair as he unceremoniously voids his bowels. Robb, nonplussed that his meaty bride is dead, offers Lord Stevron his condolences for his losses and offers alternatives.
----[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
----[X] Write-in Offer (1p): You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
[X] Plan This is a Crack Plan
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Robb Stark (3p)
--[X] Fat Walda, and only Fat Walda, will do. Robb likes his women with meat on their bones - how else is he to keep warm on those cold winter nights? And those childbearing hips! Why, he could breed an army with hips like those at his disposal.
---[X] Suggested Results: Due to the shock of the sudden and completely unexpected marriage proposal, Fat Walda chokes to death on the tart she was stuffing down her gullet. Walder Frey, upon seeing his dream of marrying one of his children into a Lord Paramount's house come to fruition and then immediately turn to ash, suffers an aneurysm and dies on his chair as he unceremoniously voids his bowels. Robb, nonplussed that his meaty bride is dead, offers Lord Stevron his condolences for his losses and offers alternatives.
----[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
----[X] Write-in Offer (1p): You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Plan Icefyre
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
[X] Plan Icefyre
- Location
- Tel'aran'rhiod
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment
Frey waifu is shit tier
Frey waifu is shit tier
- Location
- nz
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Ok. I've been thinking it over, and I guess I prefer that Rob under our control get hitched to having a bunch of whiny, disloyal bannermen. Even if they couldn't practically do anything. Besides Rob won't break his word do long as we control him.
[X] Plan Icefyre
I realize I've been arguing for the empty keeps (and I still feel there's no threat of them taking over), but long term Post-war they'll just be a political hazard.
[X] Plan Icefyre
I realize I've been arguing for the empty keeps (and I still feel there's no threat of them taking over), but long term Post-war they'll just be a political hazard.
KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
I'm a big fan of plans that get Theon hitched. As suggested, it might be enough to keep him from going Ironborn and ending up in a bad way.
You know how you keep Theon from going Ironborn? Don't send him back to the Iron Isles.
- Location
- United States
They were disloyal in canon because Robb was disloyal to them first. That's not going to a problem with us in control of Robb. So long as we stick to the letter of whatever agreements we make here they shouldn't betray us. Will they be whiny? Yes, they're Freys. They'll never not be whiny. There's a reason nobody likes them.
Theon, ultimately, idolizes his native culture and his father's approval more than he loves Robb and the Starks (hence canon). One greenlander girl won't make much difference there.