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Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest

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Icefyre said:
Because it said so on the update? 5 Point require to pass. Giving too much to the Frey might make them happy but it would also make Robb look like a bad negotiator from the North lords' point of view. The Freys haven't done anything but we're piling them with good things.
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I'll rephrase: 5 points that Lord Frey will accept. I included Theon who might not agree or be accepted. It is just as possible that Frey will not agree to a deal of only a squire and wards in addition to a bethrothel, and request changes, even if only for a different 5 points.

If you want to offer just the minimum and hope it passes, then that is perfectly valid. I prefer to maximize our potential gains via chance of inheritance of the Twins and hopefully nudging Theon into staying in our camp.
 
I wonder how if we should try to get Lord Bolton a betrothal as well. While the connection between Frey and Bolton isn't great getting Ramsey farther from the line of succession might be worth it.
 
Felius said:
I wonder how if we should try to get Lord Bolton a betrothal as well. While the connection between Frey and Bolton isn't great getting Ramsey farther from the line of succession might be worth it.
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The problem here remains the same: Roose will fear that whatever child he might have will be murdered by Ramsay, and so assume that he will be his heir. Ramsay needs killing, no other way around it.
 
Felius said:
I wonder how if we should try to get Lord Bolton a betrothal as well. While the connection between Frey and Bolton isn't great getting Ramsey farther from the line of succession might be worth it.
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Lord Frey plans on pawning off his daughters on any of your unmarried bannermen later, should an arrangement be made. But he'd find it justifiably insulting if you attempted to make it part of this deal in lieu of some marriage ties between your two families (which he really wants). It would come across as "Marry a Frey? Can I please throw some of my vassals at that instead?"
 
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment

This seems like a reasonable deal. Put the marriage off as long as possible and allow squiring and fostering of Freys, which cost us little to nothing. Giving the Frey some abandoned castle in the North might actually be beneficial to us, since they'll have to invest resources into it in order to secure it.

@Charcolt, it says that 5 points is required to pass. First, does this ensure success or is it merely the minimum acceptable level for the possibility of a deal? Secondly, does this mean that we'll get the support of House Frey as well as their rather large army like in canon or do we need more points to secure that?
 
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment

This one gives the ancient fucker enough of what he wants to get us across the damn bridge, which is the primary goal here. If he wants more, then he's going to have to actually be useful instead of sitting around fucking whichever poor girl got shoved into his lap today.
 
Versharl said:
[X] Plan Minimal Commitment

This seems like a reasonable deal. Put the marriage off as long as possible and allow squiring and fostering of Freys, which cost us little to nothing. Giving the Frey some abandoned castle in the North might actually be beneficial to us, since they'll have to invest resources into it in order to secure it.

@Charcolt, it says that 5 points is required to pass. First, does this ensure success or is it merely the minimum acceptable level for the possibility of a deal? Secondly, does this mean that we'll get the support of House Frey as well as their rather large army like in canon or do we need more points to secure that?
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Five Points is sufficient to cross the bridge and have House Frey's 4,000 men join yours. The roll (87/100) and Robb meeting him in person has put you on a good foot here.
 
Given the clarifications, I choose @Duesal's version of my plan:

[X] Plan Minimal Commitment
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
-To Fat Walda, who could get Darry if we wish it.
-[X] Vacant Keeps
The North has no shortage of empty halls, and Lord Frey has no shortage of useless sons. An abandoned castle in the frozen North isn't the most attractive prospect to everyone, but it could be a good cap to any deal in progress.

The great thing about it is that it keeps our options open for more bargaining with others in the future. And we're not saying no to marrying a Frey ourselves; we're just not willing to commit to anything yet. Even Walder would admit that if we're offered Margaery/Arianne/Myrcella, it's a better offer. And why should we pay more than needed? If in the future we have doubts, we can offer more.
 
Crimson Moon said:
@Charcolt How many points would give a write-in where we offer Walder "concessions of sorts" in his feud with crannogmen and House Reed?
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I'd need to see the write-in before I could rate it. You might risk alienating some very loyal bannermen if you try to trade him Jojen for crossing a bridge.

Meneldur said:
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
-To Fat Walda, who could get Darry if we wish it.
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Rickon (Age 4) with Walda (age 15) is an interesting choice. Of course to claim Darry you'd need Lord Darry and Amerei to die first.
 
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Keeps: While we likely have quite a few that we could give, getting southron Bannerman who keep the seven is a recipe for trouble. Maybe if we put them around the Manderlys, but that's unlikely to be where the vacant land is. Asking them to convert might also alienate our extended family as well as he Manderlys, which I'd rather not do.

For marrying Robb: Unless we want to get the Tyrells, the Freys are not a bad match, at leas if we pick one of the decent ones. And the Tyrells are very much a gamble to even try.
 
[X] Plan Offering Even Less
[] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
[] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
[] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
[] Write-in Offer (1p)
You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
Instead of keeping shit Freys free to stir shit far too near our homebase, we'll give them something less valuable yet still worth 1 point as per Charcolt's word.

Even if you don't believe Freys will be a problem for us or later generations, at least admit that those castles would be better off as rewards to minor, loyal subjects and not damn chinless men.
 
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Charcolt said:
Rickon (Age 4) with Walda (age 15) is an interesting choice. Of course to claim Darry you'd need Lord Darry, his son, and Amerei to all die first.
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Isn't Lord Darry already dead, killed by Clegane at the Mummer's Ford? For the rest, pull a David and Uriah - put Lyman on the front lines where the fighting would be fiercest. Once he's dead, just use your power to do it. Surely a respectable lady and Robb's brother are better options than Gatehouse Ami - Lady Mariya probably wouldn't need much convincing.
 
Meneldur said:
Isn't Lord Darry already dead, killed by Clegane at the Mummer's Ford? For the rest, pull a David and Uriah - put Lyman on the front lines where the fighting would be fiercest. Once he's dead, just use your power to do it. Surely a respectable lady and Robb's brother are better options than Gatehouse Ami - Lady Mariya probably wouldn't need much convincing.
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Looks so. Lyman Darry is a child, so no you can't put him on the front lines. Further, you seem very confident in your ability to persuade a woman you've never met to fuck over her own daughter.
 
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@Crimson Moon, I actually really like your idea. Enough that I'd like to work it into Plan Minimal Commitment. The less Freys in the north the better.

@Meneldur @gladiusone @Versharl @Mal-3 @Evil Endures @killfr3nzy, heads up that I'm changing the plan so instead of offering the Freys a keep and land we do as Crimson Moon suggested and give them economic incentives instead.

[X] Plan Minimal Commitment
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey (1p)
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell (1p)
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark (2p)
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
-[X] Write-in Offer (1p)
You will grant House Frey reduced rates on Northern lumber for 10 years. In addition, you will arrange for a one-time gift of Ironwood as a sign of House Stark's esteem and friendship.
 
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[X] Plan Minimal Commitment
-[X] Squiring - Olyvar Frey
It is a great honor to serve as the squire to a member of one of the great houses (even if technically you aren't a knight!). Olyvar is around two years your senior, and said to be a dependable sort.
-[X] Fostering - Winterfell
The fostering of noble youths is a tried and true way of establishing and maintaining ties between Houses. Lord Frey has suggested that two of his grandsons, both named Walder, be fostered at Winterfell.
-[X] Betrothal Offer - Rickon Stark
Marriage is the foundation of any noble alliance, and House Frey has no shortage of unmarried heirs. Lord Frey has has offered his great-granddaughter Perra as a potential wife for your youngest brother.
-To Fat Walda, who could get Darry if we wish it.
-[X] Vacant Keeps
The North has no shortage of empty halls, and Lord Frey has no shortage of useless sons. An abandoned castle in the frozen North isn't the most attractive prospect to everyone, but it could be a good cap to any deal in progress.



I like this plan because this costs us the least plus Olyvar is squiring for us so we could give him the castle too. A decent lad like Olyvar would do well in the North.
 
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