DevilsAdvocate
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The Life and Times of a Half Saiyan King (Thread2)
- Thread starter lordchaos99
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
... Wonder what cell would taste like
It'd be like eating all the z warriors... At the exact same time.
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- Location
- universe
Probably some self cannibalism in there, too.
lordchaos99
(I have left SV)
I wrote this up on my phone (needed to jump onto a laptop for the Color though). Help, my thumbs fell off.
OrangeGossard: Ooh, I like this guy. Yes, hail me!
Hey! You got made non-canon.
OrangeGossard: Oh no, I am now a non-canon character in a fanwork of a movie and cartoon series translated from another language adapted from a comicbook. As opposed to a Canon Original Character. Truly, my power has been stripped from me, along with my dignity.
OrangeGossard: Besides, my Loyal Subjects loved me, you just made things silly and didn't mesh my debut with the atmosphere. Addressing my Subjects and not being in-story sidesteps that issue. Look for my orange text you pitiful weaklings. It means I have things to say.
I object to any plan involving myself in this time period being assaulted by a greater being. Even if the only greater being possible is my own future self.
Oh and also, your definition of success in rulership is skewed. Successful states are generally determined by stability of time, relative size to contemporaries and possibly scientific advancement.
Successful stateowners know the fact that Free Citizens are nonthreats, Primitive Chattel are nonthreats and the gaping chasm between generally results in the Coups and Instability.
So successful leaders prefer either Free Citizens, or Chattel. It is currently hard to have non-universal Freedom greater than around 5% as those Free begin agitating to free the Chattel.
But which is better? Well, that depends primarily on the wealth source of the nation. Nation states are essentially just a machine to distribute wealth to Important Factions after all.
In a global community such as modern Earth, a nation state has access to many other nations so you can specialize your wealth distribution. If your nation is a source of oil, diamond, pineapple or other resources that can be produced by unskilled labor then the common citizen is not an Important Faction and so giving them any of your wealth (and thus Freedom) is silly. Counter-intuitive since it is literally a waste of effort and in many cases actively harmful to the stability of your nation.
If however you require an educated workforce, or you lack a global marketplace to exchange your Resource for Wealth then you need to factor in the populace. Or at least a portion.
Industry requires Education as a general rule. You cannot rule over Slave/Citizens who live in cities big enough to require a car based transport system, as the Roadwork requires skill, electricians, plumbing, it becomes a mess. They agitate for freedoms that if you grant them, destabilizes your entire system.
A person as grand and powerful as myself naturally skews results of course, in political systems on your world the Leader usually does not possess enough power to replace the military. Meaning the military does not have the option of stepping aside to allow a popular revolt to occur, which is the primary source of Coup success stories. So I would hardly need a protective militia, and with them the Wealth to sustain themselves. Though if I wish to conquer outwards among the stars I would need to expend the wealth.
Since I rule over the entire planet, I would need at least a faction of educated, in order to construct the luxury my Ruling Class desires. Meaning Modern amenities such as hovercars, movies and grand palaces.
So, I would need a small caste of Magicians and another of Actors. These are artisan groups, so would prefer freedoms. Violent coercion would produce less than ample results according to commonly accepted Psychology but mental modification or granting freedom work.
There are many factors to being a Good ruler. Being good aligned is hardly the most important.
A romantic relationship could help, but not because it is romantic.
Because it is a relationship. A Human lover is meant to be a Human's best friend. Having a best friend would be a morality pet.
Eww, girls are icky. Except Gottex, but she isn't really a Girl, she is a Kami.
One can be a virtuoso of diplomacy while still being an all-conquering Legend forged in the heart of war whose every breath promised the death of every being you ever cared about.
Surprisingly, being blunt and incredibly powerful can be an effective bargaining strategy. Especially if you serve the first diplomatic envoy group. To the second.
Other than that, yeah pretty much.
General Nappa has a degree in Child Psychology (with a minor in Pain). He was also in command of Saiyan Bootcamp which dealt primarily with Saiyans starting around 6 and ending in Post-Pubescence.
Additionally, he effectively has a degree in the Biological sciences, although he was too busy serving in the military and playing with his hobby to attend class and earn the degree (and some political malarkey related to (Spoilers)).
While he knows more about imparting sudden growth and maturation in engineered beings, so long-term is a bit mysterious, there is still some knowledge in there about gene splicing and the effects of hybridisation.
I bring this up each time, but it's a great example: Bulma's response to hitting a child with her car is to shot the child with a gun repeatedly
Good doesn't meant Effective. The Peer Pressure to drink as a teenager can be Effective, but some would refuse to call it Good.
Bulma was exerting her Effective influence on Vegeta in a way that was a Good influence.
Vegeta is also...complex.
OrangeGossard: Ooh, I like this guy. Yes, hail me!
Hey! You got made non-canon.
OrangeGossard: Oh no, I am now a non-canon character in a fanwork of a movie and cartoon series translated from another language adapted from a comicbook. As opposed to a Canon Original Character. Truly, my power has been stripped from me, along with my dignity.
OrangeGossard: Besides, my Loyal Subjects loved me, you just made things silly and didn't mesh my debut with the atmosphere. Addressing my Subjects and not being in-story sidesteps that issue. Look for my orange text you pitiful weaklings. It means I have things to say.
I object to any plan involving myself in this time period being assaulted by a greater being. Even if the only greater being possible is my own future self.
Oh and also, your definition of success in rulership is skewed. Successful states are generally determined by stability of time, relative size to contemporaries and possibly scientific advancement.
Successful stateowners know the fact that Free Citizens are nonthreats, Primitive Chattel are nonthreats and the gaping chasm between generally results in the Coups and Instability.
So successful leaders prefer either Free Citizens, or Chattel. It is currently hard to have non-universal Freedom greater than around 5% as those Free begin agitating to free the Chattel.
But which is better? Well, that depends primarily on the wealth source of the nation. Nation states are essentially just a machine to distribute wealth to Important Factions after all.
In a global community such as modern Earth, a nation state has access to many other nations so you can specialize your wealth distribution. If your nation is a source of oil, diamond, pineapple or other resources that can be produced by unskilled labor then the common citizen is not an Important Faction and so giving them any of your wealth (and thus Freedom) is silly. Counter-intuitive since it is literally a waste of effort and in many cases actively harmful to the stability of your nation.
If however you require an educated workforce, or you lack a global marketplace to exchange your Resource for Wealth then you need to factor in the populace. Or at least a portion.
Industry requires Education as a general rule. You cannot rule over Slave/Citizens who live in cities big enough to require a car based transport system, as the Roadwork requires skill, electricians, plumbing, it becomes a mess. They agitate for freedoms that if you grant them, destabilizes your entire system.
A person as grand and powerful as myself naturally skews results of course, in political systems on your world the Leader usually does not possess enough power to replace the military. Meaning the military does not have the option of stepping aside to allow a popular revolt to occur, which is the primary source of Coup success stories. So I would hardly need a protective militia, and with them the Wealth to sustain themselves. Though if I wish to conquer outwards among the stars I would need to expend the wealth.
Since I rule over the entire planet, I would need at least a faction of educated, in order to construct the luxury my Ruling Class desires. Meaning Modern amenities such as hovercars, movies and grand palaces.
So, I would need a small caste of Magicians and another of Actors. These are artisan groups, so would prefer freedoms. Violent coercion would produce less than ample results according to commonly accepted Psychology but mental modification or granting freedom work.
There are many factors to being a Good ruler. Being good aligned is hardly the most important.
A romantic relationship could help, but not because it is romantic.
Because it is a relationship. A Human lover is meant to be a Human's best friend. Having a best friend would be a morality pet.
Eww, girls are icky. Except Gottex, but she isn't really a Girl, she is a Kami.
One can be a virtuoso of diplomacy while still being an all-conquering Legend forged in the heart of war whose every breath promised the death of every being you ever cared about.
Surprisingly, being blunt and incredibly powerful can be an effective bargaining strategy. Especially if you serve the first diplomatic envoy group. To the second.
Other than that, yeah pretty much.
General Nappa has a degree in Child Psychology (with a minor in Pain). He was also in command of Saiyan Bootcamp which dealt primarily with Saiyans starting around 6 and ending in Post-Pubescence.
Additionally, he effectively has a degree in the Biological sciences, although he was too busy serving in the military and playing with his hobby to attend class and earn the degree (and some political malarkey related to (Spoilers)).
While he knows more about imparting sudden growth and maturation in engineered beings, so long-term is a bit mysterious, there is still some knowledge in there about gene splicing and the effects of hybridisation.
>implying bulma isn't a good influence. Look at vegeta. He's practically saiyan father of the year.
Also, man deja vu. The quest just started and people are already salty
I bring this up each time, but it's a great example: Bulma's response to hitting a child with her car is to shot the child with a gun repeatedly
Good doesn't meant Effective. The Peer Pressure to drink as a teenager can be Effective, but some would refuse to call it Good.
Bulma was exerting her Effective influence on Vegeta in a way that was a Good influence.
Vegeta is also...complex.
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- Location
- USA NYC
One Gossard is more sophisticated as fuck then Frieza and two the Legend was forged in the heart of war you say? That implies a great period of unrest and conflict. Monsters and hero's are often born of tragedy and dark times.
As for making Gossard good it's mostly a peace offering for those like in the old thread who wanted him to be normal and a functioning member of society. I am always looking for ways to make Gossard the best Evil Overlord there ever was. And like an Evil Overlord he had multiple avenues of power. The Legendary energy and transformations, Martial Arts, Mad Science, and Mystic Arts that give you power over concepts. I very much like what you did with Dragon Ball Magic and Concepts by the way
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Maybe not. Lordchaos did say in the old thread that, with our current Instinct Level, that when we hit Puberty even Frieza would think that our impulses would be a bit much.
codeRR
dual hero
- Location
- Where am I?
...It might be an issue when FRIEZA thinks your impulses are a bit much. I mean this is a guy who kinda does things as the will takes him.
Kinda concerning considering going by Super Frieza is willing to screw over Universe 7 to kill Goku. He hates Goku more than Broly does
@lordchaos99 With Copycat, how many ranks in a MA would some one get from one spar our they roll a 9 or 10?
- Location
- USA NYC
Why do you say being more extreme then Frieza like it's a bad thing
I love and adore how we the King of Legend are more ruthless and sadistic then pretty much any canon Dragon Ball villan. It is a highlight of the Quest in my opinion and part of what makes Gossard so interesting and entertaining to read aboutGoing by an old post it probably is 7/10 since that is the cap unless we're Gohan in which case he can master a martial art from just pure observation cause he's bullshit like that
Why do you say being more extreme then Frieza like it's a bad thing
I dunno Super Frieza is catching up pretty quickly with the whole sacrifice the universe for revenge thing
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- Location
- USA NYC
That's just being a petty sore loser as you whine about how unfair your defeat was like a little bitch
. And I meant by we are more sophisticated as fuck then Frieza in our 12th level intellect as Lex Luther would say. Speaking of super villians to draw inspiration from we should make some proper Evil Overlord Armor like Doctor Doom and Dark Sied among others have to show off out profound glory.One Gossard is more sophisticated as fuck then Frieza and two the Legend was forged in the heart of war you say? That implies a great period of unrest and conflict. Monsters and hero's are often born of tragedy and dark times.
As for making Gossard good it's mostly a peace offering for those like in the old thread who wanted him to be normal and a functioning member of society. I am always looking for ways to make Gossard the best Evil Overlord there ever was. And like an Evil Overlord he had multiple avenues of power. The Legendary energy and transformations, Martial Arts, Mad Science, and Mystic Arts that give you power over concepts. I very much like what you did with Dragon Ball Magic and Concepts by the way
So we're trying to make Gossard more like Cooler and less like Frieza
I missed this reading the first time through, but what kind of training would they need to detect it? Kami training? Whis training? How large is the Red aura multiplier? I imagine it is pretty big considering it leads to Saiyan God.
That's just being a petty sore loser as you whine about how unfair your defeat was like a little bitch
Honestly Evil Overlord Armor makes sense considering we're weaker than Gohan right now, but our engineering score is higher.
- Location
- Middle of Nowhere
That's just being a petty sore loser as you whine about how unfair your defeat was like a little bitch
Armor looks cool, but at the level of strength and durability Gossard has and is going to have, wearing armor is probably going to be equivalent to wearing clothes.
- Location
- USA NYC
Mad Science plus Magic equals bullshitium. Also as Mega Mind said it's all about presentation
. By the way @lordchaos99 some ideas to run by you
We are really fast but not as hard hitting as a consequence of sliding away from strength on the Dexterity vs Strength scale. So what about using our speed for super high acceleration to compensate for that. The faster your strike the greater the force of impact?
Finally could we do an Iron Fist where we infuse the raw destructive power of our Ki into our physical blows?
lordchaos99
(I have left SV)
The maximum you can get per combat is 3 ranks. The longer the combat the more likely it is to gain 3 ranks. When you have 6 or more ranks in a Martial Art you can independently train that Art to learn it in full, though this is hard and finding a teacher would be easier.
You cannot crit with Copycat, 9-10 is the +3 Ranks tier.
That was an old post, when I was toying with the idea of giving Watcher a Copycat-related buff.
It was replaced with the 'roll 2' mechanic in the transition.
That's just being a petty sore loser as you whine about how unfair your defeat was like a little bitch
I am much Cooler than Frieza. One might even call me...Cold. Thought I'd say Cooler didn't you.
Also, my brethren are spelled incorrectly. Lex Luthor and Darksied. Darksied Is. I mean, Darksied is one word.
From the Wiki:
Godly ki sense - Since godly ki cannot be sensed by regular beings, gaining the ability to sense godly ki must be learned separately. Deities like the Gods of Destruction, their attendants, and the Supreme Kai can sense god ki thanks to possessing it, and other lesser deities such as Guardians and Kais are also able to sense it. Goku gained the ability to sense god ki after temporarily becoming a Super Saiyan God, and Vegeta gained it after several months of training with Whis. In Dragon Ball Super, Hit had the ability to sense God Ki, as he could sense Goku's power multiplying upon using Super Saiyan Blue: Kaio-ken.
So, it is a teachable skill that is given to Vegeta by Whis and to the Guardians (Kami, Guru, etc. who are also taught Divinely Inspired Ki which is the Pink Hair form for Gottex, though the Divinely Inspired upgrade is taught separately to Divine Ki Sense). But you auto-learn it if you become a God yourself.
Because Gottex already knows how to sense Divinity, she wasn't taught how and so doesn't know how to teach it. She suspects no information is in the library on the subject, because it is directly taught by the Kais when they teach a Guardian.
tl;dr: Yes, official Kami Training or Whis training
Red Aura is around x10 although certain factors can influence it (old age affects the multiplier at the same time as it affects the base PL for example, Kami could go x2). It also has a few esoterics, but they require a link to a Planet which Gottex doesn't have yet.
Overlord Armor:
You are on a modern level planet (with some oddities mainly due to the Science Heroes). You require personal-scale armor that can withstand not just being hit at fractions of C while moving in the other direction at another fraction of C, but also the Ki power behind it which dwarfs the physical impact significantly.
It IS possible, though the easy ways require either farming Arcosian skin or wiring the armor directly into your Ki, not something you typically take off again. So you need to do it the hard way.
Gero is running into the same issue, and eventually solves it.
Mad Science plus Magic equals bullshitium. Also as Mega Mind said it's all about presentation
By the way @lordchaos99 some ideas to run by you
We are really fast but not as hard hitting as a consequence of sliding away from strength on the Dexterity vs Strength scale. So what about using our speed for super high acceleration to compensate for that. The faster your strike the greater the force of impact?
Finally could we do an Iron Fist where we infuse the raw destructive power of our Ki into our physical blows?
At the level of combat you fight on, the physical impact isn't the major damage dealer. It is the Ki being infused into it. You hit at relativistic velocities because that gives your opponent less time to react, not because it meaningfully increases the force behind the blow. A punch from a Ki User is closer to an Bomb-Pumped Missile that triggers on impact, sure the impact itself might do something but more than likely it doesn't. So yes, as a Dex-focused build you hit harder kinetically, but lighter from Ki. The issue is scale, being able to move faster doesn't outweigh the gains made by a bulkier 'Balanced' fighter in Ki Strikes.
You already infuse Ki into your physical blows. You could change your Ki to inflict Status Effects if you want?
- Location
- USA NYC
Wiring the armor directly into our Ki sounds interesting just need to make it fluid and maliable like a Marvel Symboite. And for stat effects how about taking a page from Malfeas for Nuclear Hellfire of hatred and fuck you?
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lordchaos99
(I have left SV)
It would be an apt comparison to name Malfeas as a Legend of another setting.
You have already carved words onto someones Soul as you kill them and possess enough energy to convert every atom on Earth into void depleting the energy in the universe. What specifically do you want to take from Malfeas?
- Location
- USA NYC
Most likely his Cancer death fire of burning Doom and his ability to mark your soul so he can make it explode. And maybe a giant Ki avatar construct like Demon Empreor Shintia. Any one else more versed in Exalted want to add something?
Ah good to know Watcher isn't that insane anymore. It's still pretty good with the exp boost, but we can counter that with our Power is maximum trait.
Looks like we'll have to do Kami training with Gottex then. Hopefully she doesn't mind us muscling in on her territory. The downside to this is Kami training is not very efficient due to being a combo action, inefficient for each skill but we do learn more overall. On the plus side we can learn Divine Ki and boost ahead of Gohan once we master it. Short term though we are gonna be weaker than Gohan probably. I am not even sure Gohan can do Kami training with such low magic potential. Going by Gottex's stat sheet it seems pretty magic heavy. Can Piccolo teach Kami training due to Kami being part of him or does Gossard have to learn it from Goku and Mr. Popo?
The question is if Gossard can handle being weaker than Gohan for an extended period of time.
x10 just for the Red Aura? That as good as Oozaru
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- Location
- universe
Ah good to know Watcher isn't that insane anymore. It's still pretty good with the exp boost, but we can counter that with our Power is maximum trait.
Looks like we'll have to do Kami training with Gottex then. Hopefully she doesn't mind us muscling in on her territory. The downside to this is Kami training is not very efficient due to being a combo action, inefficient for each skill but we do learn more overall. On the plus side we can learn Divine Ki and boost ahead of Gohan once we master it. Short term though we are gonna be weaker than Gohan probably. I am not even sure Gohan can do Kami training with such low magic potential. Going by Gottex's stat sheet it seems pretty magic heavy. Can Piccolo teach Kami training due to Kami being part of him or does Gossard have to learn it from Goku and Mr. Popo?
The question is if Gossard can handle being weaker than Gohan for an extended period of time.
x10 just for the Red Aura? That as good as Oozaru
I think i'd be willing to sacrifice short-term power in return for the long term benefits that would provide. Hopefully Gossard would take falling behind as reason to train and master the red ki faster; A challenge, rather than something to simply lash out at.
So Gohan, upon gaining Copycat to go with his Watcher, can fairly easily pick up all the martial art styles up to rank 7. 36% chance of getting 3 per long combat, he could easily fit in atleast one long combat against each guy in one day, 3 days (the last day only needing +1, or one of the earlier days getting just +2 and the last one also +2).
Not really. PiM lets us get stronger, but that's it, doesn't help with mastering the style. And when Zenkais are a thing, power ain't likely to let us keep ahead of Gohan. Unless Zenkai has an upper limit of effectiveness.
- Location
- Australia
Might take repetitive training but I'd say just being exposed to God Ki for a sufficient period should open sensing. It seems that's how Vegeta got it. So we just vote to train with Gottex for a while. Teach her how to manipulate Ki into making a shield and maybe the Kamehameha. Any technique that has her project Ki should be able to give God Ki sensing through repetition.
lordchaos99
(I have left SV)
Looks like we'll have to do Kami training with Gottex then. Hopefully she doesn't mind us muscling in on her territory. The downside to this is Kami training is not very efficient due to being a combo action, inefficient for each skill but we do learn more overall. On the plus side we can learn Divine Ki and boost ahead of Gohan once we master it. Short term though we are gonna be weaker than Gohan probably. I am not even sure Gohan can do Kami training with such low magic potential. Going by Gottex's stat sheet it seems pretty magic heavy. Can Piccolo teach Kami training due to Kami being part of him or does Gossard have to learn it from Goku and Mr. Popo?
The question is if Gossard can handle being weaker than Gohan for an extended period of time.
x10 just for the Red Aura? That as good as Oozaru
The Kami training action is Goku, a few comments by King Kai and mainly Mr Popo. It is slightly different to the Guardian Boot Camp.
Mr Popo won't teach someone who doesn't have authority from the Kais or is a Goddess. He can teach things to people, but not the things you want (basically what Goku learned, or the Z-Fighters in the Saiyan Saga). He is currently focusing mainly on Magic for Gottex because 'holyshitballs That Magic Stat', she is interested in it and it isn't one of the 'definitely restricted without God approval' skills, only 'restricted without God approval' so he skates by under the 'She is a God' excuse. He doesn't want to even risk teaching non-Gods the Guardian stuff.
Mr Popo cannot sense Divine Ki AFAIK. He isn't the Demon God from Abridged.
Kami Training is intended to be 'raise my successor so they do well in Kai training' mixed with 'I probably shouldn't teach you this...but we dont have a Kami and...oooh, I hope this doesn't get me in trouble'
x10 is because this is the transformation given to a Guardian, they are meant to Guard the planet from both external and internal forces.
So they pick one of the stronger wise natives and give them a major boost to keep ahead.
It also can't be used to go God, it stabilizes at x10.
It has a maximum amount of Power it can give, which is why the stat sheet now has the source of PL listed.
I may have overestimated how much Zenkai occurred, but I lost the notes with the PL source and defaulted to Zenkai.
Goku Black is the aberration to my Zenkai headcanon, so what he is doing is a different technique. It also seems to help with the Transformations, so I think it is actually the Healing Zamasu gives, making Goku Black more like Zamasu his original Divine self while maintaining the perks of being Goku and essentially purifying the body and soul.
Oh, alright. Can you tell us what it is? Or at least, the general ballpark?
Oh, also, how much extra potential is gained from mastering a MA?