It Belongs to a Museum

Another reason could be that properly made arrows are actually quite logistically demanding to keep supplied to an entire army's worth of archers if they don't go to recover them from the battlefield on their own initiative, and fletching and making new bowstrings isn't exactly something you can get the average skeleton or zombie to do and leave them to it.

Now, granted, that would still leave the option of slingers...
 
The evolution of military doctrines is one of those things that is often assumed to be sensible and adaptive when it very very often very very isn't, and that would only be exacerbated by having immortal megalomaniacs in control of it. One of the Old World's most underappreciated advantages might be the cultural trend of military meritocracy that the Cult of Myrmidia spreads.
Would you agree to explain more about why it often wasn't the case? Or give exemples?
I'll second this. I'd like to hear more about it too.

Like, what's the scale you mean? I can see individuals not learning. I can see states/groups starting the learning process too late*. And in some cases, there is just not a whole lot you can do**. But it pretty much all cases I can think of, there's at least some adaption, because selection of the fittest is pretty quick when you go out and manually help the process.

*And sometimes unlearning. With Hannibal, they learned they couldn't beat him, one consul decided to try and starve him out and not give battle, but that was so unpopular that he got recalled and someone gave battle. And promptly lost.
**Like, if you don't have guns and good transportation and also live in something semi open, dealing with horse archers is just a total pain, and there's no real good option.
Or, the famously static WW1 trenches. Which had both sides desperately trying to not do that, but the technology required just wasn't really there yet, and any offensive innovations were balanced by doing it in the other direction. Though, there was that one general that ordered what, 14?, repetitions of the same assault with the same result. So that would be an example of individuals not learning, but there's reason why people consider him as a really, really bad general.
Another reason could be that properly made arrows are actually quite logistically demanding to keep supplied to an entire army's worth of archers if they don't go to recover them from the battlefield on their own initiative, and fletching and making new bowstrings isn't exactly something you can get the average skeleton or zombie to do and leave them to it.

Now, granted, that would still leave the option of slingers...
A good slingstone isn't just any rock either. It should be smooth, and ellipsoid. You get cast metal slingstones too.
 
Would you agree to explain more about why it often wasn't the case? Or give exemples?

The Potsdam Giants were a Prussian regiment with an average height of 6'2" serving a 5'3" king who was on the record as saying that he was horny for tall soldiers. Geopolitics bent around Prussia favouring the countries that supplied him tall recruits for his pet regiment.

Steam rams were the dominant naval doctrine in Europe for thirty years. An entire generation of ships were built with the ram as the primary armament with guns existing only to make it so that the ram could reach the enemy ship. No steam ram ever successfully sunk an enemy ship. Plenty accidentally sunk friendly ships, though.

Marcus Licinius Crassus was the richest man in Roman history and may have been the richest person in all history. He's said to have invented fire insurance, with an enormous asterisk on it because what he actually invented was showing up at burning buildings with a bunch of slaves trained to fight fires and offering to buy it off the owner for a fraction of its not-on-fire value. He thought these skills translated into the military realm and raised a few legions at his own expense and led them into a land war in Asia. It ended exactly as you expect, and recovering the 'Eagles' - the standards of those legions - was a major deal for Roman geopolitics for decades afterwards.

The American Mark 14 torpedo used during WW2 was a complete shitshow of a weapon - it ran too deep, its magnetic trigger either went off too early or not at all, the contact trigger didn't, and it had a tendency for its rudder to get jammed so it would do a complete loop and sink the submarine that fired it. It took half the war for the problems to be admitted.

The saga of the rifle America used during Vietnam, and control of that being wrested away from the army and into civilian manufacture, is usually seen as a conflict between selfish empire-building and picking the best tool for the job, but to this day there are people that don't agree on which side was which.

Institutions are run by people. People can be wrong. Sometimes just because they're not good at their job, sometimes because the right answer is disadvantageous to them, sometimes because the wrong answer is more popular and going against it can cost that job. And when a person is very wrong for something that is very important, it takes a very well run institution to prevent them from digging in their heels about it. A major flaw in the human brain is that it thinks the consequences for being wrong only come due if you admit it.
 
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Steam rams were the dominant naval doctrine in Europe for thirty years. An entire generation of ships were built with the ram as the primary armament with guns existing only to make it so that the ram could reach the enemy ship. No steam ram ever successfully sunk an enemy ship. Plenty accidentally sunk friendly ships, though.
They got the martians good though.

The American Mark 14 torpedo used during WW2 was a complete shitshow of a weapon - it ran too deep, its magnetic trigger either went off too early or not at all, the contact trigger didn't, and it had a tendency for its rudder to get jammed so it would do a complete loop and sink the submarine that fired it. It took half the war for the problems to be admitted.
They weren't the only ones having trouble. The Nazi Uboats started the war of with a torpedo that lost it's ability to maintain depth if the submarine ever dove underwater, were equipped with a magnetic detonator that only worked on the same lattitude as Germany and an impact detonator that did not detonate on impact.
 
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A major flaw in the human brain is that it thinks the consequences for being wrong only come due if you admit it.
Sometimes this is actually true. If it's not you dying/suffering, if you can sweep it under the rug you might not face any negative consequences. You just need to keep it quiet long enough that it'll be the next guys problem.
Which is still not good for the overall organization, and doesn't detract from the wider point, but I think it's important to point out that it happens as often as it does because it can and does work (and obviously we don't the cases where it worked really well, just those where it failed spectacularly or failed in the end but the perpetrators still got away with it), which makes the problem even worse.
 
Marcus Licinius Crassus was the richest man in Roman history and may have been the richest person in all history. He's said to have invented fire insurance, with an enormous asterisk on it because what he actually invented was showing up at burning buildings with a bunch of slaves trained to fight fires and offering to buy it off the owner for a fraction of its not-on-fire value. He thought these skills translated into the military realm and raised a few legions at his own expense and led them into a land war in Asia. It ended exactly as you expect, and recovering the 'Eagles - the standards of those legions - was a major deal for Roman geopolitics for decades afterwards.
To be fair to Crassus, he did have some successes as a junior commander under more able generals in his youth. Unfortunately for him:
  1. At the time of his expedition he was political partners with the two most prominent commanders of his day, Caesar and Pompey, the latter of whom had (to his mind) stolen from him the glory of putting down Spartacus' rebellion, and was looking rather desperately for his own military successes to shore up his standing in comparison. This caused him to distrust the sound operational advice of his Armenian allies, adopt a generally reckless approach to the march and left him unprepared to deal with...
  2. The targets of his expedition, the Parthians, whose steppe-descendant warfare the Romans had never encountered before. Moreover, in this instance they were being led by an unusually able commander in Surena, who managed to smash Crassus' cavalry force with cataphracts and had prearranged resupply of arrows by camel that let his mounted archers pelt the Roman infantry for hours on end. (To reward his success, Surena was executed by the Parthian king of the time as a threat to his rule; subsequent Roman forces and their generals (starting with Marcus Antonius' underappreciated subordinate Ventidius), more familiar with their tactics, were able to beat their Parthian counterparts pretty reliably.)
... You probably knew all of this. Apologies; I just like talking about these things!
 
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[X] [STAFF] Stranded Valkyrie
[X] [STAFF] Black Lion
[X] [STAFF] Lie of Aenarion
[X] [AELSA] Princess
[X] [AELSA] Widow
 
[X] [STAFF] Lie of Aenarion
[X] [AELSA] Princess

I prefer Princess over the others because I believe it increases her personal power in such way that it doesn't remove the potential advantages of the other routes later on.
 
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We are drowning in good staff options. I want them all. Especially our past students. Current winning option seems one of the more boring and even that would be because the shenanigans are in the future, not the past :D
For the princess its princess for me. All the way. Access to Ulthuan and getting closer to underwater archeology (looting) are both very nice.
Widow is also nice and sounds like the most fun. Business seems like more of the same and Governor just doesnt do it for me. Neither fluffwise nor the benefits.

[x] [STAFF] Bahr
[x] [STAFF] Ibn Naggazar
[x] [AELSA] Princess
[x] [AELSA] Widow
 
I'm for anything besides Widow, but prefer either Governor or Princess. I don't want to risk burning her bridges with Ulthuan just as we've unlocked opportunities to get stuff out of them, and with a likely new Staff member who starts out with Knowledge in Ulthuan (basic, but that can be improved I'm sure.)
 
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A major flaw in the human brain is that it thinks the consequences for being wrong only come due if you admit it.
I'm reminded of a post I saw somewhere else on the internet that was along the lines of "[These people] studied human cognitive biases for a decade and found they separated into two categories: some weird and mostly harmless quirks, and confirmation bias, which is in the process of destroying human civilization."

Though from your post it never really stopped, it just sort of keeps chugging in the background to lay low the mighty.
 
The Potsdam Giants were a Prussian regiment with an average height of 6'2" serving a 5'3" king who was on the record as saying that he was horny for tall soldiers. Geopolitics bent around Prussia favouring the countries that supplied him tall recruits for his pet regiment.
And his son, upon his ascension, posthumously kink-shamed his father by destroying it :/ What a brat.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Night_stalker on Mar 12, 2025 at 10:01 AM, finished with 244 posts and 160 votes.
 
kinda sad it seems we're not going into the necromancy with Aelsa, hopefully we will be able to still push her to be interested in it in the future if a bit more quietly instead of such an overt way.

if she got an affinity for Necromancy that might be fun for a patron
 
@Boney does our close ties to the Citadel of Dusk lock us out of a relationship with the Druchii in the future, or is that something we can still work towards?
Actually thats a good question. How interlinked are our Paron relationships? We know supplier relationships are not overlapping and do not need to be balanced, does that extend to patrons as well?

No. Soft power, which patronage and museums are both examples of, is more flexible in that regard.
 
The flavor of Aelsabrim's Patron path is the Citadel turning from a literal citadel into an actual colony, so her agenda would likely tie into supporting that.
History could totally fit, for example, since what she's building is very much a mirror of ancient glories for the elves. Cathai or Ind could also fit, since the colony would stand to profit massively from an increased interest in goods from that direction. Or maybe something focused on the mysterious magical side of Lustria, to tempt further investments into the colony from the nerds.
 
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