Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

Honestly, RR's plan is pretty much what I was going to recommend. Move out, using the forest cover, and see the enemy's dispositions before calculating attacks.

Alright, moratorium is over, we've had a discussion and I doublechecked the orders. Let's get the vote started:

[X] Plan CCC, Phase Cover
-[X] Deployment image (will add facing indications later, sorry)
-[X] Roy. Elv. Sie. Art.: Move, Move, Hide1️⃣ [E, NE| Facing NE]
-[X] 1st Elv. Cuir.: 2*Move, Search [3*E, NE, NW| Facing E]
-[X] 2nd Elv. Cuir. 2*Move, hide 2️⃣ [3*NE, E,SE| Facing NE]
-[X] 3rd Elv. Cuir.: 3*Move [NE, 4*E, 2*SE,E,SE| Facing NE]
-[X] 4th Elv. Cuir.: 3*Move [6*E| Facing NE]
-[X] 1st Hob Musk.: 3* Move [3*E, NE| Facing NE]
-[X] 2nd Hob Musk.: 3* Move [2*E, NE]
-[X] 3rd Hob Musk.: 3*Move [2*NE, 2*E, NE| Facing E]
-[X] 4th Hob. Musk.: 3* Move [2*NE, E, NE| Facing NE]
-[X] Wolf Guard: 3* Move [SE, 4*E, NE| Facing NE]
-[X] 7th Elv. Musk.: 3* Move [3*E, NE| Facing E]
-[X] 10th Elv. Musk.: 3*Move [NE, 3*NE, SE| Facing NE]
-[X] HQ: 3* Move [SE,2*E]


Yesterdays plan for how we should move our units. In short, this plan focusses on keeping our units in cover to prevent enemy hit and run attacks on T1. This is a real danger since the enemy becomes aware of our position at the start of the turn, while we stumble forwards blindly. Given the significant mobility of their cavalry (6 base movement), this is an important consideration. Aside from that I have put most of our infantry forward, in a position to have a decent chance at charging the enemy should they move forward. A more cautious setup that still maintains battlefield control. Regardless of where the enemy sets up, we can use cavalry to get some hit and run attacks in.

1️⃣ Explanation for the siege artillery hiding: This prevents spotting by the enemy units if the put an elf at the edge of their deployment zone (8>7), meaning we reduce the risk of cavalry attacks.
2️⃣ Explanation for 2nd cuirassier hiding: Due to the northern woods in the way of the deployment zone, the risk of detection is somewhat low here (4 tiles close for elves, would require a move into a precarious position on the next turn). This means there is somewhat decent chance of not being detected, allowing us to potentially pull of a hit and run attack.

Sidenote about mechanics testing: I'm enjoying the effects of the spotting system. The handling of it actually balances the first-move advantage pretty neatly. One side has the initiative and can move further, but is also operating blind at larger distances. The other side goes second, but has the advantage of being able to react based on potentially seeing most of the other's end-game position. That's kind of a cool way to handle it, though I am a bit curious who would recieve the first move in each situation. It might be a good idea to give the first move generally to the attacker, or compare battle effect rolls when it's ambigious who the attacker is.

[X] Plan CCC, Phase Cover

A good plan, as discussed yesterday.

@Photomajig By the way, you thread marked the deployment vote under the main threadmark slider rather than voting. Not sure if that was intentional, so I'm just pointing it out.

Red Rationalist said:

@Photomajig By the way, you thread marked the deployment vote under the main threadmark slider rather than voting. Not sure if that was intentional, so I'm just pointing it out.

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Huh. I have no idea how that could even happen, since the voting closed threadmark is created automatically. Fixed now.

[X] Plan CCC, Phase Cover

Alright, interesting. This isn't dissimilar to the position I anticipated andone of the artillery units is about where I would expect it to be. Infantry was moved somewhat more conservatively, likely due to a fear of running into a charge. Nymphs are were you would put them and the enemy position is oriented around SE line, with humans 2 tiles away from us. I need to trace movement paths to guess where artillery would likely be, but getting close is going to run into issues with triggering artillery fire.

So, to be honest: I am thinking of going after the juicy, lone cavalry target that is completly unprotected. They can't have any readied action, can be charged + meleed from 2 of our cavalry in the rear and thus depleted. I'm going to have to think this through, but depleting the screening force would be a big step towards winning the battle. Then our cavalry could run right into their exposed eastern flank.

Yeah picking off that cav seems like a great idea. I'm tempted to say we charge the 2nd Nymphs too but I'm not sure we can make it back to cover with our northern cuirassiers. We should certainly at least hit them with the Siege artillery and see if we can knock down those woods though.

Just to be clear here, could the 17th Charge-Ambush our Charge-Ambushers? If that question makes sense?

Do they know where our two Cavalry are?

Nerdorama said:

Yeah picking off that cav seems like a great idea. I'm tempted to say we charge the 2nd Nymphs too but I'm not sure we can make it back to cover with our northern cuirassiers. We should certainly at least hit them with the Siege artillery and see if we can knock down those woods though.

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No, not we wouldn't. Charging into the woods costs 6 movement (3+3 woods for cav, 2 actions on charge), while disengaging one tile costs a full 4 movement ([1+2 disengage melee]+1 plains). So that wouldn't work out and would also inflict an advantaged melee attack on us.

The Laurent said:

Just to be clear here, could the 17th Charge-Ambush our Charge-Ambushers? If that question makes sense?

Do they know where our two Cavalry are?

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Based on the new rules no. A unit can only ready 3 actions, or act during their turn. We can rule out any unit outside the deployment zone readying an action due to these rules, since they spent at least one action on movement.

Red Rationalist said:

No, not we wouldn't. Charging into the woods costs 6 movement (3+3 woods for cav, 2 actions on charge), while disengaging one tile costs a full 4 movement ([1+2 disengage melee]+1 plains). So that wouldn't work out and would also inflict an advantaged melee attack on us.

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I thought Cav disengaged for free, but honestly the rules hit so many revisions and I'm so burnt out from work I'll take your word for it.

Nerdorama said:

I thought Cav disengaged for free, but honestly the rules hit so many revisions and I'm so burnt out from work I'll take your word for it.

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I don't think that was even part of the second-last version of the rules. Disengagement has been scrapped in general, with some specific mechanics about moving while in melee replacing it.

Photomajig said:

• Disengage has been removed. Mechanically, it can be replicated by the Move and Brace Orders in combination.

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Photomajig said:

• When Engaged in Melee, Units may only Move, Charge or Attack. Ending Melee Engagement requires an Unit to Move to a non-adjacent Hex. They may take other Orders as normal once Engagement is broken.
  • Routing on either side also cancels Melee Engagement.
• Moving while Engaged in Melee costs 2 additional Movement. While Facing can be changed as part of the Move action as normal, this may expose a Flank to an enemy you are Engaged with!

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So yeah, doesn't read like free cav disengaging from a charge to me.

Nerdorama said:

I thought Cav disengaged for free, but honestly the rules hit so many revisions and I'm so burnt out from work I'll take your word for it.

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Red Rationalist said:

I don't think that was even part of the second-last version of the rules. Disengagement has been scrapped in general, with some specific mechanics about moving while in melee replacing it.


So yeah, doesn't read like free cav disengaging from a charge to me.

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Cavalry does not have any special slipperiness anymore. I'll try to get all the current rules in one post so they're easier to keep track of.

Alright, basic casualty + dmg predictions for that: We get 2 cavalry attacks of experienced and professional cavalry units into the woods, who each move, charge, melee into the rear. That means a (2d100+10 + 2d100) in terms of hits. Averaging out, we get a 14 casulties on average and a 85% for one disadv. shock check (50+ casulties in a turn). Also probably a morale -1 due to casulties. Morale checks are as follows:

= 4 (base attack)+ 2 (rear charge)+ 1 likely disadv. shock+ 2 disadv. cavalry charge

Meaning we deal a rather significant amount of stress. How much exactly? Let's assume the same army stats as us, meaning a base +7 -> +6. I roll for baseline checks:

1. 1d20+6 ~15.5, 2 stress
2. 1d20 +4~ 14, 3 stress
3. 1d20+1 ~ 11.5 ~ 4 stress
4. 1d20-3 ~ 7.5 ~ 6 stress
5. lowest of 2d20-9; 70% for routing
6. 100% for routing

Alright, the 12th Huassar is definitively going to die to that. Possible counterplay is pretty limited, since all units outside of 2 artillery and one halfling are accounted for. After that, we can swing from the eastern flank into their rear, shattering their formation in one neat sucker punch if they don't drastically fall behind. Worst case scenario: They get one ambush or one cavalry attack in, though that trade is favourable to us. Now just the question of how to organize our remaining forces is open.

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Honestly, moving the hussars that far in the open might be an already fatal misplay for Ivernia. The enemy really can't allow themselves to trade like for like in cavalry with the state of the map. In part potentially explicable by a lack of awareness on the forest, though still a way to adventurous move for them. This gives us +2 morale, while also forcing them to completly reshuffle their front. With the exception of the one halfling unit lurking around somewhere, we can fall into their flank the turn after that if they don't fall back.

Photomajig said:

Cavalry does not have any special slipperiness anymore. I'll try to get all the current rules in one post so they're easier to keep track of.

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Thank you, that would be supremely helpful.

Red Rationalist said:

Alright, the 12th Huassar is definitively going to die to that. Possible counterplay is pretty limited, since all units outside of 2 artillery and one halfling are accounted for. After that, we can swing from the eastern flank into their rear, shattering their formation in one neat sucker punch if they don't drastically fall behind. Worst case scenario: They get one ambush or one cavalry attack in, though that trade is favourable to us. Now just the question of how to organize our remaining forces is open.

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Honestly, moving the hussars that far in the open might be an already fatal misplay for Ivernia. The enemy really can't allow themselves to trade like for like in cavalry with the state of the map. In part potentially explicable by a lack of awareness on the forest, though still a way to adventurous move for them.

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It's semantics, but I'd like to remind that they're harquebusiers, not hussars.

Still, this is good to hear. What do the odds look like in terms of average casualties on the left flank if the Glade Guard decide to plink away at our cuirassiers? They'd be firing at the end of Long Range, but as I understand it they'd have an Advantage and not much chance from us for retaliation as things stand.

Red Rationalist said:

Alright, the 12th Huassar is definitively going to die to that. Possible counterplay is pretty limited, since all units outside of 2 artillery and one halfling are accounted for. After that, we can swing from the eastern flank into their rear, shattering their formation in one neat sucker punch if they don't drastically fall behind. Worst case scenario: They get one ambush or one cavalry attack in, though that trade is favourable to us. Now just the question of how to organize our remaining forces is open.

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Have the 2nd Hob move to cover the Siege Artillery. Also, play against type by keeping our infantry in place, firing at range. We might be able to encourage the Ivernian commander to make some mistakes, and ours are in a lot more cover than theirs.

Chimeraguard said:

It's semantics, but I'd like to remind that they're harquebusiers, not hussars.

Still, this is good to hear. What do the odds look like in terms of average casualties on the left flank if the Glade Guard decide to plink away at our cuirassiers? They'd be firing at the end of Long Range, but as I understand it they'd have an Advantage and not much chance from us for retaliation as things stand.

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Right, sorry. In my defense harquebusiers is devilishly hard to spell. So, we are looking at a flat ([hg of 2d100]-50+40-20) for those attacks, which does a bit of damage [90 casulties] though not all that much. Probably not worth it in terms of play options, the nymphs are much better used as a positional threat to prevent us from charging in the east.

MrRageQuit said:

Have the 2nd Hob move to cover the Siege Artillery. Also, play against type by keeping our infantry in place, firing at range. We might be able to encourage the Ivernian commander to make some mistakes, and ours are in a lot more cover than theirs.

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it's actually not necesary to move them out of cover. If we ready a melee attacks with the 1st Hobs and 2nd Hobs, anyone approaching them would be forced to move while in melee twice (6 movement total), enough to prevent a charge. Alternatively, force a ready [Brace, Move, Charge] with the 1st and you can block the path towards any charge. It's only one open tile, so not great.

I would actually advocate for moving more units from our P formation to the southern woods, since that is the place from where I would to bypass the nymphs. Need to think some things through for that though.

Red Rationalist said:

I would actually advocate for moving more units from our P formation to the southern woods, since that is the place from where I would to bypass the nymphs. Need to think some things through for that though.

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Move the 2nd Hob there, and have the 4th Hob and 10th Elv refill the line?

MrRageQuit said:

Move the 2nd Hob there, and have the 4th Hob and 10th Elv refill the line?

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Yeah, that sounds about right. I will shuffle a few things on the map to see how it would look.

Red Rationalist said:

Right, sorry. In my defense harquebusiers is devilishly hard to spell. So, we are looking at a flat ([hg of 2d100]-50+40-20) for those attacks, which does a bit of damage [90 casulties] though not all that much. Probably not worth it in terms of play options, the nymphs are much better used as a positional threat to prevent us from charging in the east.

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That honestly does sound worth it to me? That's almost a fifth of a Cuirassier unit each turn, and the Nymphs can just keep sitting in the woods.