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Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

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On the bright side: We will also be operating with full intel on the enemy for the first time, which is going to be interesting. I imagine we can do a lot when we now everything from how the enemy munitions look, to the enemy plan to each individual units commander (probably pre-determined rather than random, since this is a battle-hardened force that has seen a fair bit of fire). Let's say what we can do when we even know how Thiele likes his coffee. So far our efforts to play with the enemy personality have gone alright and I am confident this is going to be easier if we know the enemy plan.
 
Also, regarding the strike force: We will need to see the battlefield and the enemy army first, but I am also reasonably optimistic about using infantry to strike the enemy from behind. Artillery get's also killed by them in a charge (especially if we use hobs) and we can use this moment for a combined ambush and cavalry strike and overwhelm the enemy. If we pin down the infantry line in the centre, start wreaking havoc in their backline and charge with our cavalry and create a skirmish, we can accomplish a lot and build up momentum. The timing will also be easier to get right and the enemy will probably not commit to great cavalry charge early on.

We will also see what their exact plan is, but I could easily see a beaten army disintegrate if they are alone at their side of the river. Pretty difficult to regroup when you are trapped in hostile territory, with a disciplined army hot in pursuit. This depends on one corps crossing the river first, but I do think this will probably be their plan given the logistical restraints.
 
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Red Rationalist said:
Hmm, alright. So we are currently in the late-ish summer and will probably be in autumn by the time this campaign ends. I wonder how good our chances are for winter as an operational pause, since it makes logistics tougher. Based on a very cursory look at the war of the first coalition, few battles tend to take place in winter. Depending on the local climate, the crossing at Dancy might also start swelling some time soon. Well, all things to worry after the first couple of battles.
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All of this that has happened so far has been within a single month. If we keep on winning and don't stay on the defensive we could wind up with the whole area around Engelsburg under our control long before the freeze. It all depends, but we have a lot of miles of road to go before we even have to think about this.
 
The Laurent said:
All of this that has happened so far has been within a single month. If we keep on winning and don't stay on the defensive we could wind up with the whole area around Engelsburg under our control long before the freeze. It all depends, but we have a lot of miles of road to go before we even have to think about this.
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That would be the ideal outcome, yes. And represent complete Arnése control over La Durance, or at least the western portion of it since any army would need to battle an entrenched position around Sonneneck. We would still face significant issues with troop quality and numbers trying to hold the area against a bigger army of Norn, though that might be fixed with enough time on the campaign and some strong wins. It does represent a really good victory condition for us, one that would significantly improve Arnése position during any sort of negotiation. Based on the map, it is also looking like most of the agricultural area is south-west of Sonneneck and centered around Engelsburg, meaning Nornish logistics would suffer without drawing from the area.
But yeah, this is only really feasible in the long-term. There are more immediate concerns.
 
Red Rationalist said:
That would be the ideal outcome, yes. And represent complete Arnése control over La Durance, or at least the western portion of it since any army would need to battle an entrenched position around Sonneneck. We would still face significant issues with troop quality and numbers trying to hold the area against a bigger army of Norn, though that might be fixed with enough time on the campaign and some strong wins. It does represent a really good victory condition for us, one that would significantly improve Arnése position during any sort of negotiation. Based on the map, it is also looking like most of the agricultural area is south-west of Sonneneck and centered around Engelsburg, meaning Nornish logistics would suffer without drawing from the area.
But yeah, this is only really feasible in the long-term. There are more immediate concerns.
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Even if it hits a little hard, we REALLY need to do the Influence-cost logistics thing and also get the basic logistics actions starting the very next march, because winter quarters will be a goddamn nightmare if we don't figure this out, and it's going to take time!
 
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The Laurent said:
Even if it hits a little hard, we REALLY need to do the Influence-cost logistics thing and also get the basic logistics actions starting the very next march, because winter quarters will be a goddamn nightmare if we don't figure this out, and it's going to take time!
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Hmm, that depends on where we put our army during the winter. If we can quarter them in some sort of barracks, the issues of fuel is more managable. I would also note we are in an area adjacent to a pretty big forest, so presumably there is a decent access to firewood and charcoal in the area. Not that I'm in any way opposed to yelling about logistics given our experience so far (seriously, a single supply train in 1.5 months?), but I think there are ways around it. Also, winter doesn't automatically mean freezing temperature and instant snowfall, it might take some time for temperatures to drop.
 
What are the odds that we can capture Engelsburg before winter fully sets in ?
It would offer us a good quarter for winter and it is in a central and defensive location.
 
Red Rationalist said:
Hmm, that depends on where we put our army during the winter. If we can quarter them in some sort of barracks, the issues of fuel is more managable. I would also note we are in an area adjacent to a pretty big forest, so presumably there is a decent access to firewood and charcoal in the area. Not that I'm in any way opposed to yelling about logistics given our experience so far (seriously, a single supply train in 1.5 months?), but I think there are ways around it. Also, winter doesn't automatically mean freezing temperature and instant snowfall, it might take some time for temperatures to drop.
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It's not that we'll all die, it's that angry, grumbling soldiers whose pay and food aren't arriving in a timely manner are likely to cause all sorts of mischief and trouble, much of which might degrade the discipline and morale of the army. This is always true of course, but in the winter they have more time to be miserable about it and build up a head of steam.
 
A58 said:
What are the odds that we can capture Engelsburg before winter fully sets in ?
It would offer us a good quarter for winter and it is in a central and defensive location.
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We might as well speculate about that, since we lack info with which to discuss the short term. So, the base requirements for us would be to cross the defeat the enemy army, cross the river, secure the bridge for the 6th to support us and then assault the city. If I'm going with the somewhat pessimistic theory that each of the 3 corps represents a force of about 10 thousand strong, we need some pretty decisive victories for that (40 thousand compared to our 20 thousand and change). Fortunately, the enemy is also probably planning to cross the river, something that makes capturing them a somewhat possible proposal (any force that is defeated with their back towards a river crossing would have a terrible time). We might have a chance, if we really smash the first corps, have the second corps cross and smash them again, though there comes the issue of our own crossing. It heavily depends on us getting to perform a bunch of defeat in detail battles and winning decisively. This would be followed by the issue of our own crossing, which would also be pretty difficult if there is an enemy on the other side.

If we manage to successfully get north of the river, chances are alright. We would still face tough battles, but as long as we can strike either at Engelsburg or the bridge we can make progress. There are other outside factors, like the exact enemy choices, strength and getting additional armies directed towards our front. I can see a path towards that if things go well. If they don't, there is the possibility of negotiating quartering from Daurstein.
The Laurent said:
It's not that we'll all die, it's that angry, grumbling soldiers whose pay and food aren't arriving in a timely manner are likely to cause all sorts of mischief and trouble, much of which might degrade the discipline and morale of the army. This is always true of course, but in the winter they have more time to be miserable about it and build up a head of steam.
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Fair enough, though that depends on their uniform and field tents, as well as the local climate. I don't disagree trying to fix logistics though, reliable shipments of supplies would make planning things easier.
 
Red Rationalist said:
We might as well speculate about that, since we lack info with which to discuss the short term. So, the base requirements for us would be to cross the defeat the enemy army, cross the river, secure the bridge for the 6th to support us and then assault the city. If I'm going with the somewhat pessimistic theory that each of the 3 corps represents a force of about 10 thousand strong, we need some pretty decisive victories for that (40 thousand compared to our 20 thousand and change). Fortunately, the enemy is also probably planning to cross the river, something that makes capturing them a somewhat possible proposal (any force that is defeated with their back towards a river crossing would have a terrible time). We might have a chance, if we really smash the first corps, have the second corps cross and smash them again, though there comes the issue of our own crossing. It heavily depends on us getting to perform a bunch of defeat in detail battles and winning decisively. This would be followed by the issue of our own crossing, which would also be pretty difficult if there is an enemy on the other side.

If we manage to successfully get north of the river, chances are alright. We would still face tough battles, but as long as we can strike either at Engelsburg or the bridge we can make progress. There are other outside factors, like the exact enemy choices, strength and getting additional armies directed towards our front. I can see a path towards that if things go well. If they don't, there is the possibility of negotiating quartering from Daurstein.

Fair enough, though that depends on their uniform and field tents, as well as the local climate. I don't disagree trying to fix logistics though, reliable shipments of supplies would make planning things easier.
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My assumption is that we'd be facing something more like 20k, and potentially something south of 10k to hold down Guillory/feint/etc, which means if we did manage a decisive victory it'd potentially regain something closer to parity and leave the enemy off-sorts, at least until they get further reinforcement.
 
The Laurent said:
My assumption is that we'd be facing something more like 20k, and potentially something south of 10k to hold down Guillory/feint/etc, which means if we did manage a decisive victory it'd potentially regain something closer to parity and leave the enemy off-sorts, at least until they get further reinforcement.
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At the moment, we are both only able to offer guesses based on intuition. The entire force participating in the invasion of Vechia was several tens of thousands strong (40-60k?), but garrisoning the occupied territories, guarding against both the weakened Vechian state and certain neighbours with interests in a one-sided territorial exchange with Norn would also take up a decent number of people. I think 20 thousand is a guess on the lower end, though there is also the possibility of Norn trying to dissuade us from direct attacks by making their numbers look bigger. Until the next turn comes, we have only guesswork.
 
Red Rationalist said:
At the moment, we are both only able to offer guesses based on intuition. The entire force participating in the invasion of Vechia was several tens of thousands strong (40-60k?), but garrisoning the occupied territories, guarding against both the weakened Vechian state and certain neighbours with interests in a one-sided territorial exchange with Norn would also take up a decent number of people. I think 20 thousand is a guess on the lower end, though there is also the possibility of Norn trying to dissuade us from direct attacks by making their numbers look bigger. Until the next turn comes, we have only guesswork.
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I'm kinda also assuming they're sending at least some troops to constitute a core of a counter-attack against our comrade!
 
Basically, my assumption is that they have maybe a little shy of 30k total in this region [not counting the remnants of the provincial armies], and they'll put 7-10k to pin down Guillory and then the 20-23k to beat us black and blue, at which point Guillory would have no choice but to retreat in terror and desperation or die horribly. They'd not quite have two to one numbers against us, but they'd have a considerable numerical advantage in the fight, which they could hope combined with their excellent Drill and surprise move would see the day.

And obviously if it did then they probably just get Daurstein back within the next month or two.
 
As long we can face one corps at a time I think we have a chance at winning the campaign and sieging Engelsburg.
I think that at least the first corps is rushing to it's position and trying to get us by surprise. Otherwise they would come much more slowly and more importantly all together.
(And then we would lose all our territorial gain, at best at great cost to them).
 
The Laurent said:
Basically, my assumption is that they have maybe a little shy of 30k total in this region [not counting the remnants of the provincial armies], and they'll put 7-10k to pin down Guillory and then the 20-23k to beat us black and blue, at which point Guillory would have no choice but to retreat in terror and desperation or die horribly. They'd not quite have two to one numbers against us, but they'd have a considerable numerical advantage in the fight, which they could hope combined with their excellent Drill and surprise move would see the day.
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Huh, fair point. Gelre-Musselmond is also an important theater, especially since the Silver army represents somewhat of a diplomatic experiment. Though I don't know if they had other armies to draw upon for this, so the contribution of the Army of Vecchian might be somewhat small towards the lowlands. We don't really know the other potential commitments, Norn's standing army and if Norn intends to mobilize at this moment, so their figures could vary a lot. Based on the figures I found, the Brunswick-Prussian army was just north of 30 thousand early on in the war, so this would generally track with the OTL inspiration?
We do however benefit from coincidentally picking the perfect counter against their troops: Getting page for movement and intel, drilling our forces heavily and expanding our standing army into a somewhat functional one. I don't think they accounted for a well-disciplined, scouting focussed army.
 
Red Rationalist said:
Huh, fair point. Gelre-Musselmond is also an important theater, especially since the Silver army represents somewhat of a diplomatic experiment. Though I don't know if they had other armies to draw upon for this, so the contribution of the Army of Vecchian might be somewhat small towards the lowlands. We don't really know the other potential commitments, Norn's standing army and if Norn intends to mobilize at this moment, so their figures could vary a lot. Based on the figures I found, the Brunswick-Prussian army was just north of 30 thousand early on in the war, so this would generally track with the OTL inspiration?
We do however benefit from coincidentally picking the perfect counter against their troops: Getting page for movement and intel, drilling our forces heavily and expanding our standing army into a somewhat functional one. I don't think they accounted for a well-disciplined, scouting focussed army.
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Note, that even with our expansions 30k plus provisional armies would mean they outnumber us two to one, and have high-Drill troops led by hardened and experienced Generals. This absolutely is something they should feel confident about, and even with our Drill and fast-movement and scouting, I honestly wouldn't necessarily bet our force (sans Guillory) against a 22k enemy except for the advantage we have in planning time and, even more, in the March action that might let us do a surprise reversal part of the way through the coming battle.

With those combined with might win and might even manage the kind of major, decisive win that leaves said enemy force devastated and considerably weakened, letting us hit something closer to parity.
 
[X] Plan Iron Army, Ironclad Intel

The Laurent said:
Note, that even with our expansions 30k plus provisional armies would mean they outnumber us two to one, and have high-Drill troops led by hardened and experienced Generals. This absolutely is something they should feel confident about, and even with our Drill and fast-movement and scouting, I honestly wouldn't necessarily bet our force (sans Guillory) against a 22k enemy except for the advantage we have in planning time and, even more, in the March action that might let us do a surprise reversal part of the way through the coming battle.
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We can only hope that their columns wind up fighting independently, rather than together.
 
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