The Long Night Part Three: Bonfire at Dawn (45k)

Voting is open
Greater Divinations
Be'lakor's Plans Double Down (Costs 2 GDs each) x1
Tranth Assassination Attempt Double Down (Costs 2 GDs each) x1
Dragon x2
I think it would be better to focus harder on Tranth's assassination attempt. At the least I think we should reverse the order and put in a repeat if failed on Tranth's Assassination attempt.
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I also think it may be beneficial to swap out diplo training Nurma with Learning based or just more Combat training Nurma.
 
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I think it would be better to focus harder on Tranth's assassination attempt. At the least I think we should reverse the order and put in a repeat if failed on Tranth's Assassination attempt.
---
I also think it may be beneficial to swap out diplo training Nurma with Learning based or just more Combat training Nurma.
I have made these changes in my plan. For Nurma, I added another Jane year to make her a better fight because she badly needs more training to survive her hilariously lethal traits. The update says Security Forces has 20 max years I believe this is ok.
 
Per Shard's suggestion, I changed the Nurma diplo action to a Security Forces action.
I know why the Nurma tutoring is missing. What I'm saying is that there's supposed to be a replacement diplo action for that afterwards. Can I suggest asking the Necrons to wipe out the Assassins? Be'lakor has just taken control of them via their master and I'd prefer to not let him have too much time having fun with them.
 
I know why the Nurma tutoring is missing. What I'm saying is that there's supposed to be a replacement diplo action for that afterwards. Can I suggest asking the Necrons to wipe out the Assassins? Be'lakor has just taken control of them via their master and I'd prefer to not let him have too much time having fun with them.
Done.
 
New questions and answers. Added up fast so a new one already.
1) would are Allie's be willing to die for a unknown amount of time so Imbac can get the archetype of Archmage?
1) yes

1) Has any Slaan had a 9/9 archetype before?
1) yes

1) does Trazyn have any interesting Orks in his collection? Or did he have to liquidate them after the Krork/Green Awakening?
1) a few

1) could we coordinate with the conclave to murder everyone who would be in Imbac's way of getting archmage?
1) you could suggest it no omre

2) Who's in the way of Imbac getting The Chosen One at this point?
2) mostly the Choosen of haos
Khan for example

3) What kinds of bonuses does the Chosen One grant anyways?
3) you dont know

4) is Vlad going to come out as Alpharius again?
4) probebly

5) how much power can we get Slaanesh to waste resurrecting Lucius?
5) unknown if she ill even coninue to do so

6) Has Lucius died since the Gambit?
6) no
its been 5 years

7) With the Bagon invasion, do we now have a better idea of how Nurglites operate with the new domains?
7) no
that was 3 years and they were jsut fiuruing it out

1) When do you expect the next update to be?
1) tomorrow

2) Does Tjapa have a Chosen yet?
2) no

1) What do the Deceiver's hostile rerolls/suspiciously low rolls translate to in-universe?
1) a total lack of leads

1) Is the Deceiver's ability to make all investigators roll twice and take worse the realm of Paragon or the realm of Transcend in terms of trait power?
1) paragon

2) Are our suspicions represented in-universe by a total lack of leads being itself a signature?
2) yep

1) What happened to the Vorgh in Embers? Vorgh (Xenos Species) - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum
1) there are still a group around
fiercly isolatinist and convinced that everynoe is out to get them

2) Do the Eldar also provide juvenat to heroes from minor xeno species?
2) yes

3) With the Silver Skulls saved, are all/most of the forces dedicated to them reallocated to the Unchained?
3) yes

1) Did the Vorgh who joined the Tau get wiped out by Deceiver shenanigans?
1) no, they are the ones who survived
Current attitude is due to Deciver shanaingons

2) Does the Dragon have a way to directly remote control those long-distance industrial nodes, or are those places more automated?
2) more automated you think

1) What's Belakor's feelings on Mathlann? Rising star who didn't finish the job and got beaten down? Lucky prick who made off big but couldn't walk the walk afterwards? Object lesson on underestimating someone you think you've beaten?
1) broken old veteran who ran from the sound of guns
and in doing so killed the Dragonslayers
they would have suvived if he had not turned coat

2) Is there any precedent on the psychological shifts a god might undergo from losing key domains like Slaanesh did? Any that might still apply to a Chaos God?
2) not really

3) I just realized, despite not being as fighty as Khorne, Nurgle with his two new domains and Ascendency is the closest to classic Orks of all. This may result in a resurgence of Fun Orks
3) yes iut migh

1) Is the webway alive enough, or...well not even alive enough, but is it possible for it to be infected with a plague assuming Nurgle could get info on its workings from some of the Eldar it's yoinked?
1) yes

2) If Nurgle were to mount an assault on Commoragh is it fair to assume that it's got a negative chance of success unless it somehow squeezes itself into the webway?
2) yep
back in 40k when it was defended by the Clown maybe
in Embers when it was the Clown and Ynead a possiblity
these days
with a pretty solid panthon there?
just no

1) Could Isha cure it, or is the webway sufficiently outside of her wheel house that we'd want to call Hoeth in for this?
1) isha could

2) Speaking of DE how's Lilith Hesperax doing?
2) incresible well

3) Out of curiosity I posited...a few days ago wow I need more sleep it feels like longer, that Be'lakor might want to bump off Tranth because of something he (Be'lakor) could do with scrap code. I theorised he might, but I should check, when Be'lakor did the MOI thing was it more him zipping around and inserting the code into various major human polities, or did he just do a ritual to do it all at once on a galatic level. Probably not relevant he does have all the power he could ever want, but it could be.
3) you dont know

1) Are Harlequin hacks basically machine equivalent of jokes?
1) yes

2) Flat +1 Speed trait viable for our SDB?
2) yes

3) Which of our naval weapons are Void Sails most similar to?
3) lances

4) Can Ex Fighters be reloaded without a shipyard?
4) no

5) If no, would that be an actual use case for yardships?
5) yes

6) Just to check, but was the Forge of Souls an Antwyr ploy that never panned out because he died? What was it anyways?
6) unknown

1) Unknown as in we don't know what the ploy was, or unknown in that we don't know if there even was a tie between Antwyr/Confusion and the Forge in the first place?
1) you dont know if there was ever a tie in the first place

1) Speaking of the Forge of Souls, what has it been up to lately?
1) arms dealing

2) Does Nurma already have hero-level lizardman equipment, with us just needing to stat is out, or does she have no artifacts at all right now?
2) sahe does

3) Did any Old Ones ever manage to become double transcendents?
3) unknown

4) even with the rolls is the chaos civil war still going on?
4) yep
not finsihed yet

5) Abaddon was able to take 2 sectors of the Silver Skulls before this latest Chaos civil war. How much more of the Conclave tech base was he able to capture?
5) you are unsure
at least some

6) How much industry was Abaddon able to capture intact?
6) not a whole lot
Silver Skulls are good at denial

1) Didn't Nurma already have a Danger Sense trait? Is the one listed this turn another separate trait, or is it an upgrade of the preexisting one?
1) seperate one

2) So in sum it looks like out of the Civil War so far, Abbadon managed to ensure he won't lose everything and Tjapa... didn't lose as much as the rest...?
2) yep

3) Which Wind Cataclysm Spell List has the largest number(s) of non-physical effects? (Specifically spells which can be super abused by using Culture Spirits IFF)
3) death

4) The rewards for Moderate Strategic Weapons Production and Major Strategic Weapons Production seemed to be flipped
4) oops

2) What tier of enemy does Jane need to kill to earn the 9th step of the Witch Hunter?
2) Acendent

3) what are Jane's odds of being able to kill Magnus?
3) pretty good but no way certain

1) In-universe, are hostile Chaos crits against other chaos gods, or Malal crits for Tzeentch, the chaotic influence of the other Chaos Gods briefly influencing them, or is it just more generally 'things go really well for the relevant chaos god'
1) more the latter

2) How did the Unchained fare last turn?
2) average

3) What's the approximate pop of the Dark Eldar after the whole Nurgle events?
a) How much did they lose, thereabouts?
3) you are unsure
still in the double digit billions
a) billions

1) When do the Sane intend to deploy Strategics next?
1) when they see a good opening

1) How did Wave 1 of the Void Kraken Suicide Fleet fare against the Ophelias?
1) did quite a lot of damage

1) For the expeditionary actions, do we specify which of our generals to send?
1) yes

1) Idea for Planetary: that War World the Slann pulled out retaining enough connection to alternate timelines for additional attacks or rerolls.
1) intersting idea

2) What is the Psyker Birth Rate on a Triumvirate Deva World?
a) Explosion rate?
2) arouind ten times tandard
so a fraction of Avernus'
a) higher then standard but not massivly

3) How often do we need to do the Determine Flashpoints diplo action to keep completely up to date on Unchained stuff?
3) it will start as once per turn
but you will get an option to automate it

1) If Nurma successfully ascends to Greatness, will something happen to her Chosen of Fate trait?
Chosen of Fate (quadruple chance of random events, -3 skill value)- Nurma is destined to die young or ascend to greatness, and fate itself twists to ensure this.
1) yes
that trait will evolve over time

2) Nurma's Expert of the Oakheart School Trait has not been updated to Master
2) done

1) We did a feasibility for having the Telepathica look into hero's luck on Turn 43 last thread. Should there now be an option for that?
1) the fasability said it was part of the law of narrative
there is nothing really it can do to find out more

2) What level of oomph is required to cure Nurgle's Rot?
2) high end specilised spells

3) Can the Tallship Shipyard be subject to Troll Construction Assistance and/or Expedite?
3) yes

4) If we do a Divination on the Tranth Assassin specifying looking for a Deciever connection will that give us a bonus to the roll if we're right?
4) yes, and a minus if your wrong
and I will hide the bonus/minus

1) If Jane were to get really lucky again and one-shot Magnus like she almost did to Vect, would that be big enough of a feat to potentially upgrade her (due to Magnus 9/9) archetype to Archetype of the Daemon Slayer?
1) not really

1) If we got unlucky and Nurma ended up dying right before Rotbart was able to hand over the reins to her, would we potentially have the option to have Rotbart to just throw his hands up and say: "alright fuck it, Martinus Argall, you're in charge, I'm out"
1) not without causing a major mess in Avernite polotics

2) Would Abaddon preferably want to recruit CREEEEEEED if he had the chance now?
2) yes

3) Between, the +1 to combat she got this turn, the effective 1.5 times multiplier on her crit damage, Ridcully's bonus and using a stunt Jane should by all accounts be very close to only having to make a survival roll on a Walking the Path action if she rolls a nat 1 on said Walking the Path action.
That being the case, would it at all be feasible to get one of the gods we're allied to (be that Eldar, Triumvirate or hell even the actual Emperor) to put a temporary blessing on some of Jane's gear so that she can safely-ish (nat 1's still a threat) fish for that step 9/9 archetype capstone trait?
3) ask

4) Did Nurma already expend her One Time Ridcully Save?
4) ye

5) How good of a willpower stat is required to in order to use Sorcery with minimal risks of falling to chaos?
5) it depends on who you are, how powerf you are and how much chaos wants you to fall
it starts at 30s ends with impossible

1) By "Chaos", do you mean some averaging of all the Chaos gods' views?
1) I mean any one chaos god
or daemon
basicly how much effort they are going to put into making you fall

6) Are there any known Admin Paragons besides Guilliman?
6) no

7)Is Abbadon out of his supply of "It is was it is"?
7) not yet

8) If Abby ever 100% go behind one of the Chaos God, would it be enough for said Chaos God to win the war in the Materium
a) if Yes, how much time would it take for Abbadon to win ?
8) probebly
a) a cetnury or more

9) Does Troll Expediting the Tallship yard use two Troll Expedites or just one?
9) two

1) Shouldn't Nurma have Saurus Relics?
1) she does

1) What have those Tranth assassination attempts generally taken the form of?
1) accidents

1) Comparing against what we know of the Imperial Assassin Temples, would this fit among them? (Particularly Vanus)
1) Vanus
its not exactly their playbook
but its not that far off

2) Could we ask the Necrons to visit the Assassin Temple and shoot it a couple of times with some gauss beams of death?
2) diplo action

1) Is doing one of these Tranth capstones likely to open up follow up actions for higher and lower cost versions of those systems? (Since the capstone specifically targets helguard cost level.)
1) maybe

2) Can we set action years to do the followup to Replicator Production: First Steps immediately?
2) no
a few years will be needed to absorbe the lessons learned

1a) Can Troll expedite be used for Calamus Titanforge?
1b) Same for Upgrade Factories?
1) yes
b) no

1) For Tallship yards, are we allowed to use troll expedite on only one of the halves and just pay normal time and resources for the other half?
1) yes

1) Can we Expedite Upgrade Factories?
1) yes

1) Can we expedite Rollout Advanced Omnitools?
1) no

1) Can Sirens do Eldar Wraithbone things?
1) no

2) if nurma does die during the pre-handover period, do we grab the next Hand in line while Rotbart delays retirement to get shit in order?
2) yes

3) Does Avernus have a designated Chain of Succession?
3) yes
well two
its got one which is for imedate control
and then one for long term
basicly if Rotbart dies
your Cheif Admin takes over right now
then hands it off to the hand at the top of the list
think short term regency

1) Is APA for helltroopers more or less of a relative improvement for them compared to armoursteel for helguard?
1) more

2) If we have someone from the Telepathica tutor Nurma, does picking someone with better Learning mean more progress for the same dice roll?
2) no but it effects the dice roll

1) Does Ridcully have special effects if he is picked as Telepathica tutor for Nurma?
1) no

2) Initial Research Collaboration (Ally, Tranth Pattern Project) is this meant to be -5 project difficulty for all of them, or would the benefit be different depending on if it's Advised Support vs Other Support?
2) all of them
the other effets change by who it is

1) Does Gardeners Warcry's forest work with Primal stuff like travel? Cause if so man that's honestly way more useful than using it on enemy armies
1) yes

2) Is Destructive Resonances for Chaos Undivided still restricted to only Tamia or Ridcully?
2) yes

3) whare are the characteristics of flying damon formations from the perspective of aircraft?
3) tend to be very agile
not especily fast
and far smaller then aircraft of simialr toughness or fireower

4) Does Jane's new Divination spoofing mean some diviners see Jane 'Aria' Oakheart's fighting style lol?
4) yes

5) Is Epra still Tzeentchian?
5) yes
9 seperate deamons war over its domain
that was decided on as the best way to ensure that no one ever won
when Toruq decides to sabatage his kingdom
he suceededs

1) omake question, i'm trying to desing an anti flying damon gunship, how well would the below weapons work as its armament?
a) autocannons
b) gattling impalers
c) lascannons/las-cannons
d) light AA missles.
e) neutron weponary
f) iron weapons
g) chem case with anti damon loadouts
1) a-c would work decently, would want a mix
d not so well
e very well
f not very well
g decently

The Ordinatus Talos from the Imperium Quartus, is a baffling and utterly incomprehensible example of psi tech, designed to target the only weakness left in the Necrodermis Tyranid's battle line, their Hive Mind. In their war with the Necrons who could rarely attack it, their defences in that area had atrophied, allowing Vulkan and Corvus to cooperate on a weapon which can best be described as a telepathic psycannon, which shreds the minds of those it is fired at.
2. Does the Hive-Mind-Interference also mess with Tjapan mind-control?
2) yea, mostly by killing

3) what is Ordinatus Grábakr kill or cripple raidous for humans in carpace armor?
3) 3k ish

4) I honestly don't think that'll be possible. Vaul himself can't make an artifact for Jane so I doubt that a blessing would provide any boost. - Daemon Hunter's reaction to the "organize temporary blessings for Jane's gear for the purposes of granting her safe 9th Step Walking the Path actions" idea.
Is Daemon Hunter right in his assessment? Or would blessings on Jane's gear (potential political difficulties of getting those blessings not withstanding) still be able to give her a boost?
4) unknown

5) What does 'heavily armored' mean by the standards of the hypothetical Hellflame division? Lesser daemons? Tanks?
5) power armour

6) What specific Narrative did Belakor try to use to enslave Slaneesh?
6) you don't know

1) For Ordinatus Grakbakr and flame-centric divisions, is environmentally sealed defences/resistance more important than armor past a certain point?
1) yes but you need a certain level of armour or said sealing wont hold up

1) Where is Vlad going now that the BI and Vect are just kind of, not really an issue now?
1) probebly anti Bel work

2) Random thought but was it possible to have randomly discovered the Primal Warp and how to use it on our own without Russ or Fenris? Just feels like it might had been possible with some rolls of our psykers
2) yes
there was a chance of stumbling across it studying some of the Avernite wldlife
in theory
but Jane is not a psy reasercher so you would not

1) You mean Maximal?
1) no Jane is the one with the crazy luck that might have done it

2) Now I'm wondering if our biolgis kept dying if eventually we could had gotten a psychic biogolis researcher since all the Ad Mech ones got too scared of the murder planet lol
2) nah
always more that want to study something like Avernus

1) According to the Warp, is the Deceiver a Witch?
1) no

3) Are the wards on the Polar Gates 'hard' in that even infiltration daemons shouldn't be able to slip past?
3) yes
now that the Changling is ded

1) Has an Ork in an oxygen/air-less place ever suddenly suffocated to death after someone else told it about that and questioned how it was even able to breathe?
1) not that you know of
 
Security Forces (11 Years)
Jane: Train Nurma x4 - 4 Years (4/4)
Hunting (Epra) x1 - 1 Year (1/1)
Hunting (Unchained Choice) x6 - 6 Years (6/6)

I'm not actually sure if this is allowed. Jane's specific action years are limited to 10 per turn as can be seen in the Hunting action. As a result I don't think we can do 7 Hunting + 4 Jane Training. My suggestion would be to pull one of the Hunting (Unchained CHoice) and replace it with a Militia Readiness action in Munitorum.

I think it would be better to focus harder on Tranth's assassination attempt. At the least I think we should reverse the order and put in a repeat if failed on Tranth's Assassination attempt.
---
I also think it may be beneficial to swap out diplo training Nurma with Learning based or just more Combat training Nurma.

While this is a fair argument, Andres' plan now has that so I'm just going to keep it as is. Similarly as there's now a plan with Hellflame Divisions, I'll just be keeping the Munitorum actions in my plan the same.
 
To all plan makers:

1. Can we build multiple Tallshipyards in a turn? If so focusing on that might be best, they are utterly revolutionary.

2. Why are we sending Jane, who hunts Exalted tier assets these days, into Ophelia Remnants which should lack any of those? Unless Bel decides to summon one there somewhere, which he might but also migth not. I can understand one action, but all six of them?

3. No Walking the Path to reach 9/9 of the archetype?

4. The Tranth capstone projects are very interesting, but also costed for Helguard. Which is a tier more elite than the already elite Trust Grenadiers. Which means it would be only for Sane Space Marines, special operation units, minor heroes, and Helguard. Still nice, but not exactly battlefield changing, and very expensive in Tranth and Diplo time. As such I would advise deprioritizing it below existing available and valuable research such as Orichalcum Microalloy Terminator Armor, though definitely do it afterwards.

5. To all plan makers, please include Slow Heavy Accelerator research if you want Trust shipyards to not produce the far worse last generation hypercapitals for five more Trust years than necessary. And ten of ours.

6. What exactly are we going to do with the information of who is trying to kill Tranth? Kill them right back? As in, the Deceiver, or Bel? We can not. Investing so much into this only makes sense to me if we are suspecting an unknown new player, which as far as I can tell we are not. If you want to spend GDs on protecting Tranth, why not look into how the assassinations were done and thus what to protect against rather than who is doing it? Or if you want to off Deceiver, try to find him directly?

7. 25y for Helltrooper Runes of Banishment seems very much not worth it compared to other options when we can complete multiple valuable project to boost Helguard which is our primary military arm instead, such as doctrine changing Mass Superfortresses (15y) which would boost Helltroopers and Heljeagers too (well if we have armies of those which I don't know I can't keep track of the scales there).

8. Regarding Biologis, I advocate for looking into Blank Bears properly as they have a huge potential as the Sanes only mass deployable blank combatants (notable weakness in likely difficulty of Primal transport and of course no guarantee of being tameable but still), and looking into void Attack Craft equivalent voidbeasts as currently our Kraken wave attacks are suffering from effective -30 to roll malus from the enemy completely dominating there.

9. How does building an orbital hive differ in any positive way from building it on the moons, or settling people in the vast cavernous empty spaces of Dis? They would lack the Deathworlder bonus too.

10. Feasibility proposal:
Viability of mass deployment of Reflex Shields on stations (and ships?) (Void)
We should be able to pretty easily afford it these days, and invisible defenses should mess with our enemies estimates thus forcing them to invest significantly more forces to any attack than would otherwise be necessary.
 
To all plan makers:

1. Can we build multiple Tallshipyards in a turn? If so focusing on that might be best, they are utterly revolutionary.

2. Why are we sending Jane, who hunts Exalted tier assets these days, into Ophelia Remnants which should lack any of those? Unless Bel decides to summon one there somewhere, which he might but also migth not. I can understand one action, but all six of them?

3. No Walking the Path to reach 9/9 of the archetype?

4. The Tranth capstone projects are very interesting, but also costed for Helguard. Which is a tier more elite than the already elite Trust Grenadiers. Which means it would be only for Sane Space Marines, special operation units, minor heroes, and Helguard. Still nice, but not exactly battlefield changing, and very expensive in Tranth and Diplo time. As such I would advise deprioritizing it below existing available and valuable research such as Orichalcum Microalloy Terminator Armor, though definitely do it afterwards.

5. To all plan makers, please include Slow Heavy Accelerator research if you want Trust shipyards to not produce the far worse last generation hypercapitals for five more Trust years than necessary. And ten of ours.

6. What exactly are we going to do with the information of who is trying to kill Tranth? Kill them right back? As in, the Deceiver, or Bel? We can not. Investing so much into this only makes sense to me if we are suspecting an unknown new player, which as far as I can tell we are not. If you want to spend GDs on protecting Tranth, why not look into how the assassinations were done and thus what to protect against rather than who is doing it? Or if you want to off Deceiver, try to find him directly?

7. 25y for Helltrooper Runes of Banishment seems very much not worth it compared to other options when we can complete multiple valuable project to boost Helguard which is our primary military arm instead, such as doctrine changing Mass Superfortresses (15y) which would boost Helltroopers and Heljeagers too (well if we have armies of those which I don't know I can't keep track of the scales there).

8. Regarding Biologis, I advocate for looking into Blank Bears properly as they have a huge potential as the Sanes only mass deployable blank combatants (notable weakness in likely difficulty of Primal transport and of course no guarantee of being tameable but still), and looking into void Attack Craft equivalent voidbeasts as currently our Kraken wave attacks are suffering from effective -30 to roll malus from the enemy completely dominating there.

9. How does building an orbital hive differ in any positive way from building it on the moons, or settling people in the vast cavernous empty spaces of Dis? They would lack the Deathworlder bonus too.

10. Feasibility proposal:
Viability of mass deployment of Reflex Shields on stations (and ships?) (Void)
We should be able to pretty easily afford it these days, and invisible defenses should mess with our enemies estimates thus forcing them to invest significantly more forces to any attack than would otherwise be necessary.
2 tbh, I'm a tad worried that Bel might leave a trap for Jane somewhere, and his own bolthole seems like a good spot. I'd really like for Jane to not aim for something that might be a Bel-trap till theres been some time since she got that "can't be reliably devined" bit so that older traps can become moot and be replaced by new ones that are likely to misfire.
(because I don't think Jane's prior deviniation resistance would be even close to high enough to stop someone of Bel's tier)
 
2 tbh, I'm a tad worried that Bel might leave a trap for Jane somewhere, and his own bolthole seems like a good spot. I'd really like for Jane to not aim for something that might be a Bel-trap till theres been some time since she got that "can't be reliably devined" bit so that older traps can become moot and be replaced by new ones that are likely to misfire.
(because I don't think Jane's prior deviniation resistance would be even close to high enough to stop someone of Bel's tier)
Oh, she should be fine in that regard, her Transcendent negates divinations as part of 'esoteric attacks'. All her Archetype does is give misleading reports rather than a complete blank zone.
 
No? She just has to consider someone an enemy for things like that to be shut down. I don't think Vect would have walked straight into a room with her by accident otherwise.
that isn't how its worded:
"Combat Transcendent Trait: Arbiter of Fate (current target can't use any esoteric effects to fight or escape from Jane, or have any used to support it or hinder Jane, just simple physical powers, attacks and defences (basically ignores everything but an attack that causes physical damage, include buffs for foe and debuffs for Jane)- Those hunted by Jane Oakheart find all their esoteric tricks and techniques useless, and everything but simple physical attacks failing them."

"...current target can't use any esoteric..."

"... Those hunted by Jane Oakheart find all their esoteric ...


its explictly "targeted" and "hunted"---those are not very generalized/generic/broadly-labeling terms and I doubt durin will let us game this by having her "hunt" someone only for the 5 minutes it takes to go to the nearest ship and then canceling the order (and even still, I imagine diviniations are not retroactively negated---they have to be done while she's hunting them)
 
If the tall ships work like titans then starting a new chain seems less efficient than upgrading an extant one in terms of production, starting up a secondary facility elsewhere in the system is probably wise, but not a huge priority under the current parameters.
 
In terms of the plan, I swapped out Gardener's Warcry in exchange for two years of training Nurma in Telepathica.


1. It hasn't been asked yet, bt probably. However then we wouldn't logically get the time reduction in how long it takes to build a Collosal. If we were going for Gargantuans then it'd make sense.

2. She also hunts Honored Daemons, and the Ophelian Remnants do have a fair few of that. Plus I just think it's worthwhile focusing them down this turn to go along with the Trust's Avernite deployment.

3. Based on what I've seen, the +1C only amounts to a +2 for the Walking the Path bonuses. Similarly I guestimate that the bonuses Jane would gain from her traits would be around a +20. Which would mean that she'd face some notable risk doing so.

4. You're thinking of the Heljaegers who are Astartes tier. Helguard while elite are a step below that so it'd be far more affordable.

5. I think you're making notable assumptions about how much of a benefit this provides. We don't have any details on what we get from it.

6. It gets us information that we can use to act. Not divining this means that we'll just continue to have assassinations until one gets lucky. So I don't think we have a choice.

7. I can see the logic here. As it is though I think it's more worthwhile to buff general anti-chaos bonuses rather than implement the superfortresses a turn earlier. But that's a subjective thing.

8. I don't really see the value here, ka adepts just seem more useful. Not to mention Blank Bears are a far cruder implementation of ka due to Avernus not knowing much about it at the time.

9. I think it's just cool.

10. I think that's just something that'd be done by the NDC.
 
that isn't how its worded:
"Combat Transcendent Trait: Arbiter of Fate (current target can't use any esoteric effects to fight or escape from Jane, or have any used to support it or hinder Jane, just simple physical powers, attacks and defences (basically ignores everything but an attack that causes physical damage, include buffs for foe and debuffs for Jane)- Those hunted by Jane Oakheart find all their esoteric tricks and techniques useless, and everything but simple physical attacks failing them."

"...current target can't use any esoteric..."

"... Those hunted by Jane Oakheart find all their esoteric ...


its explictly "targeted" and "hunted"---those are not very generalized/generic/broadly-labeling terms and I doubt durin will let us game this by having her "hunt" someone only for the 5 minutes it takes to go to the nearest ship and then canceling the order (and even still, I imagine diviniations are not retroactively negated---they have to be done while she's hunting them)
that being said;

I imagine seeing Jane as completely blanked out would be very terrifying---basically confirming that she's actively hunting you and you don't know where she is whatsoever.

getting this new (sub?) trait is huge as it completely removes a potential red flag our enemies probably (WERE) using, the smart ones anyway.
 
1. It hasn't been asked yet, bt probably. However then we wouldn't logically get the time reduction in how long it takes to build a Collosal. If we were going for Gargantuans then it'd make sense.

2. She also hunts Honored Daemons, and the Ophelian Remnants do have a fair few of that. Plus I just think it's worthwhile focusing them down this turn to go along with the Trust's Avernite deployment.

3. Based on what I've seen, the +1C only amounts to a +2 for the Walking the Path bonuses. Similarly I guestimate that the bonuses Jane would gain from her traits would be around a +20. Which would mean that she'd face some notable risk doing so.

4. You're thinking of the Heljaegers who are Astartes tier. Helguard while elite are a step below that so it'd be far more affordable.

5. I think you're making notable assumptions about how much of a benefit this provides. We don't have any details on what we get from it.

6. It gets us information that we can use to act. Not divining this means that we'll just continue to have assassinations until one gets lucky. So I don't think we have a choice.

7. I can see the logic here. As it is though I think it's more worthwhile to buff general anti-chaos bonuses rather than implement the superfortresses a turn earlier. But that's a subjective thing.

8. I don't really see the value here, ka adepts just seem more useful. Not to mention Blank Bears are a far cruder implementation of ka due to Avernus not knowing much about it at the time.

9. I think it's just cool.

10. I think that's just something that'd be done by the NDC.
2. She does, but isn't that something of a waste of her time? Also Avernites will be there for much longer more than five years, this is not going to be a campaign one half of a Trust turn long. If the plan is to claim more Ophelia Daemonworlds in a large alpha strike for some reason I would be up for sending in Jane like we do when we attack ours, but is that the plan?

3. I see, thanks, I didn't do the math on it myself. That said, I don't think its reasonable to expect to reach 9/9 in an archetype without a notable risk, so won't we have to bite the bullet at some point anyway? Unless another flashpoint like Ahriman comes up, but for those I would prefer to have 9/9 rather than earn it there. But I am now OK with either option.

4. I am not. Helguard are Elite++ quality (+from Trust Grenadiers who are already Elite+ from gear), very few formations of notable size reach that among the (non-elder) Sane, and they already share much gear with many Space Marines don't they? Any gear costed for them much less designed as a Tranth capstone project is very likely to be used by SMs too. Really if it wasnt I would question the value of the project even more, as there are very few units indeed in between the Elite++ and Superelite (SMs) brackets.

5. Well sure, but we never do. Why should we expect otherwise here? But mostly, we are not designing Surtr before we design this tech, so the later we design it the longer we are building way worse Inferno PDRs instead of Surtrs. Its basically wasting shipyards years.

6. But we can not act? How would finding out that Deceiver is after Tranth help us stop him? We can not kill him unless we invest a whole lot of galaxy tier assets into it and even then its a maybe, and really shouldnt be making such a decision based on these actions rather than him being a galactic threat, if we even can as Rids aside it wont be our assets doing the killing. And finding out he did this would not make Tranth safer. Same thing with Bel.

7. Thing is Helguard has the majority of our military power, not Helltroopers. Those are training grounds for future Helguard and little more really. So buffing them is worth much less.

8. Ka adepts would certainly be more useful, but they are also extremely rare and way less expendable. Same with warships being better than Krakens, yet Krakens are still extremely valuable.

9. Fair enough! I don't see it that way and would prefer to vote for plan with something more useful, but I respect that.

10. It won't. I'm like one third of the NDC and we lack the information to answer this feasibility, we need to ask this question to admirals in universe as Durin hasnt given it out of universe.
 
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