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The Long Night Part Three: Bonfire at Dawn (45k)

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inverted_helix said:
So Shard pointed out that for my build I could drop Diplomatic Genius, Gets Technology, and Gets Magic to pick up Prodigy and Gets People. Effectively trading 2D, 2L, and the relationship bonuses for 2 M, A, W, I, and +7 prestige. I would also then be able to save 1 point on the pen in acquired traits and pick up Educated in Magic/Sciences to get the 2L and one of the reputation bonuses back.

So the net change would be -2D - one relationship bonus, +2 M, A, W, I, +7 prestige.
I'm not sure if that's worth it or not largely because Will and I don't seem worth much of anything to us, and M and A aren't worth as much as D for a Diplo focused build. But it is still a lot of extra stat points overall.

However there's also piles of narrative around the innate traits that we don't fully understand. Being a few times in history Prodigy might convey benefits beyond being a mere Genius that's a Genius at Diplomacy, Gets Technology, and Gets Magic. Or it might be the latter is better narratively. I don't know, and I'm open to people's thoughts.
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Prodigy has the highest trait-cost, and its probably specially unlocked by us choosing the extreme Prodigy option; so I'd guess its got more narrative-magic.

edit: honestly, probably should pick up a will-trait or two if we pick the 'prodigy' trait---I suspect it might make us tzeetch-bait.
 
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inverted_helix said:
So Shard pointed out that for my build I could drop Diplomatic Genius, Gets Technology, and Gets Magic to pick up Prodigy and Gets People. Effectively trading 2D, 2L, and the relationship bonuses for 2 M, A, W, I, and +7 prestige. I would also then be able to save 1 point on the pen in acquired traits and pick up Educated in Magic/Sciences to get the 2L and one of the reputation bonuses back.

So the net change would be -2D - one relationship bonus, +2 M, A, W, I, +7 prestige.
I'm not sure if that's worth it or not largely because Will and I don't seem worth much of anything to us, and M and A aren't worth as much as D for a Diplo focused build. But it is still a lot of extra stat points overall.

However there's also piles of narrative around the innate traits that we don't fully understand. Being a few times in history Prodigy might convey benefits beyond being a mere Genius that's a Genius at Diplomacy, Gets Technology, and Gets Magic. Or it might be the latter is better narratively. I don't know, and I'm open to people's thoughts.
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inverted_helix said:
So Shard pointed out that for my build I could drop Diplomatic Genius, Gets Technology, and Gets Magic to pick up Prodigy and Gets People. Effectively trading 2D, 2L, and the relationship bonuses for 2 M, A, W, I, and +7 prestige. I would also then be able to save 1 point on the pen in acquired traits and pick up Educated in Magic/Sciences to get the 2L and one of the reputation bonuses back.

So the net change would be -2D - one relationship bonus, +2 M, A, W, I, +7 prestige.
I'm not sure if that's worth it or not largely because Will and I don't seem worth much of anything to us, and M and A aren't worth as much as D for a Diplo focused build. But it is still a lot of extra stat points overall.

However there's also piles of narrative around the innate traits that we don't fully understand. Being a few times in history Prodigy might convey benefits beyond being a mere Genius that's a Genius at Diplomacy, Gets Technology, and Gets Magic. Or it might be the latter is better narratively. I don't know, and I'm open to people's thoughts.
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Prodigy is something that gets a spotlight shown on them. Their ability to learn, the fact that they are more skilled *than you*, in something they've practiced in a month, whereas you have years of practice. They are either better than you, or they will quickly *become* better than you. They are set apart from others due to their sheer potential. Higher ups take note of them, either to raise them up or to defeat them before they become a threat (Not a Chaos exclusive option).

All the "Gets X" traits just means they have a knack for something. They didn't *need* a teacher to be good, not really. It's the difference between someone who went to a musical collage, and a kid who just enjoyed singing and practicing singing. This is slightly different from a specialized natural genius. They needed little help or practice to hone their skills. Think of some kid who was *naturally* good at math, who never needed to practice or study.

A prodigy Nurma might just seem aloof or untouchable (to people they aren't trying to diplomacy), compared to a Genius Nurma, even disregarding any skill score.

That said, Nurma is a Hand, not only that, they were exposed to the Advisers of Avernus. That *has* to be humbling.
 
inverted_helix said:
However there's also piles of narrative around the innate traits that we don't fully understand. Being a few times in history Prodigy might convey benefits beyond being a mere Genius that's a Genius at Diplomacy, Gets Technology, and Gets Magic. Or it might be the latter is better narratively. I don't know, and I'm open to people's thoughts.
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I personally much prefer Genius at Diplomacy, Gets Technology, and Gets Magic over Prodigy, since they gives a much more focused and defined character over just generic "she is very smart" vibe of Prodigy. I also think think it's better gameplay wise, since as you said we don't particularly care about several stats.
 
Shard said:
High Energy Weaponry

The advent of the Antimatter Reactor long ago has spurred investigations into high-energy weaponry. Over the centuries these weapons have been steadily given refinements and work as each Grand Conclave has come and passed by. Efforts that steadily increased over the years, as they are sized for the Dreadnoughts that could mount the just made obsolete antimatter reactor - Ships of such size that they initially represented a tiny fraction of the fleets of the human members of the grand conclave. At least, at first. Improvements in infrastructure over time would change that.

Although they had originally been shared as research notes between members of the Grand Conclave, with the advent of the Advanced Antimatter Reactor these 'theoretical albeit impractical weapons' have suddenly become very practical indeed.

Protomatter Projector

Past the already insane energy levels represented in phased plasma projectors and thermal lances where atoms broke down, lay the threshold where even protons and electrons as well broke down. Though long known and even produced, practical application in warfare had long been eluded by prohibitive energy costs. Until now. Enter the Protomatter Projectors, which consume massive amounts of power to fire streams of quark-gluon plasma to utterly destructive effect. These batteries are somewhat lacking in range however, as the exotic matter fired decays fairly rapidly without containment.

Gluon Cannon

Launching bolts of matter similarly to the Protomatter Projector, the Gluon Cannon solves its problem of long-range coherence via a truly vast containment method (so vast only dreadnought scale-ships could effectively house them). Drawing on the principles similar to the Neutron Gun, a 'laser' links the cannon to the target, allowing the Cannon to subsequently launch Gluonic matter at the target as though at point blank range. One can imagine the result as the reactor output of a ship quickly reducing the unfortunate target into its constituent particles.

===

AN: Let's begin continue the fine tradition of tech advances via knock-on effects in this swanky new thread.

@Durin
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nasty ideas
I like them
Shard said:
Kilbark

Primal God of Mundane Corruption and Self-Interest

Reigning over the domains of lowercase-c corruption and general self-interest is Kilbark. One of the few surviving gods not of Chaos, Kilbark is a shockingly sane, if also deeply untrustworthy god. Receiving minimal worship, for just about every polity, Chaos and not, bans his fellowship, Kilbark nonetheless manages to be a nuisance in every polity where he finds his way inside. You see, his blessings allow those in the right place to conceal their theft of wealth and other things from those in power with greater ease, or to easily explain away gaping holes in balance sheets - enough to survive attention.

Kilbark's dealings with the greater gods is generally one of avoidance - He flees rather than be caught, and tends to avoid fights even when he can win. This cowardly tactic and the general perception of him being too difficult to actually put down means that Chaos polities tend to tolerate his presence begrudgingly. After all, Kilbark does not defend his followers in the rare event that they are discovered, so rooting out his presence is a typically 'straightforward' affair. Especially so when considering Kilbark's power.

With the Triumvirate and the Eldar Gods, however, Kilbark has found a different and much more profitable agreement - He simply will not send down his Devas nor Blessings down to those under their aegis, in exchange for a miniscule tithe of power. This serves Kilbark's purposes well, for without a reason to go after him or those who are corrupt, his domain can exist perfectly well in their polities. In the long-term anyway, which is what concerns Kilbark, for Primal Gods by their nature care more for the long term health and well-being of their domains than for their own existence. For this same reason Kilbark stays bought for even this tithe of power.

Historically, Cegorach of the Eldar made an agreement with Kilbark to extend this same forbearance over the Black Imperium during its war with the Void Dragon, as part of the Eldar program of strengthening the Black Imperium as much as possible. However, when the Black Imperium withdrew, so too did Cegorach withdraw from his agreement with Kilbark, even encouraging the Primal God to drain the Black Imperium of its coffers. One which Kilbark was only too happy to return to - after all, in the end mundane corruption arises from civilization, and Chaos was detrimental to the long term health of civilization.

In person, Kilbark is personable and even affable. They do have a habit of suggesting ways the person they are talking to can improve their life, often with innocuous ways of taking a little from their organizations. Often able to even justify it as being for the best, even.

===

AN: Did you know that when the Emperor Died and Tjapa was born, some of the most corrupt priests in the Imperium avoided Falling due to their sheer (mundane) corruption and total lack of faith?

(@Durin)
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I like the idea of a little c corruption god
should mention that he is always at risk of actualy being Corrupted, due to how much that domain is linked with chaos
Shard said:
A Deal With The Devil

Belakor screwed everything up.

Just a few weeks prior, Vect held rule over one of the Superpowers of the Galaxy, an arms trader for all of Chaos. Even the Black Imperium Civil War was simply more profit, more power, and even his greatest danger the Eldar were far too distracted with the Void Dragon. Vect was safe and powerful, unassailable save by paying utterly ruinous costs. No one who could touch him could afford to do so. Everything was in balance… until it became imbalanced.

Unthinkably, Nurgle took two of Slaneesh's five domains, taking with it a full third of their power. Slaneesh went from ranking fairly among their peers the Chaos Gods to falling precariously short of losing the Great Game. Vect's final degree of safety had always been Slaneesh, a Great God who could not die. Great Gods did not die, and even Gork and Mork had spent themselves down to Major Gods before dying. But now! Slaneesh was in danger of falling down from the unattainable rank of Great God down to ranks of being a mere Major God - A position where even if none of the Triumvirate nor the Eldar Pantheon tried to kill them?

Chaos would. Swiftly, even. Slaneesh would be a threat and temptation yet one without power, looking like a meal soon to be finished, and with Slaneesh gone Vect would soon follow. Might be the first target, even, with how the Oathstone had twisted Slaneesh to protect Vect, Vect was now a weak point that could be targeted to force Slaneesh to respond instead of staying within their domain, making what was already a decisive fight instead become an easy fight.

There was even a straightforward means by which any of the Chaos Gods could force Slaneesh down from among the Great Gods, even. Destroy the Dark Eldar, and with it cut off Slaneesh from their supply of fervent worship while simultaneously banishing them from the Materium. The narratives involved in such an outrageous defeat might even weaken Slaneesh more than if they never had control over the Dark Eldar to begin with, for the warp reflected reality just as reality reflected the warp.

For Vect's domain was the weakest it had ever been, Slaneesh's loss of Freedom and Obsession meaning that their entire doctrine of war would have to be rewritten from ground-up. Without Obsession, they would have no perfectionists with their sublime skill within a single restricted domain. Without Freedom, their flexibility in all arenas (intrigue and spellcasting especially) would be so much more constrained. And then there was the loss involved in the sudden cutting off of all of said Domains.

Slaneeshi Lesser and Greater Daemons had here and there simply become Nurglite Daemons, then there were those blessed with the domains of Freedom and Obsession who had suddenly turned to Chaos Spawn or became Nurgle-Eldar, all at once and without warning. Thankfully most had simply faded or were in a rare few cases somehow even retained. Probably individual narratives of some sort with those. But the sheer chaos and loss of it all had damaged Vect's domain to the point where it could merely be considered only a Great Power.

Not just a Great Power, but a sharply overextended Great Power. Just so recently Vect had granted large portions of his forces to the quite capable Abaddon to put down the Silver Skulls for good. Low risk, good return, advanced a number of his plots here and there.. And now the Black Imperium had just become a fractured mess as its Gods had decided that the very concept of Chaos Undivided had to die for good. How many of that expedition were alive, how many could he quickly reclaim? Just weeks ago those numbers were just short of 'all of them', provided Vect was willing to pay for resurrections as needed. Now he had to consider if he could even afford to weaken Slaanesh by being too excessive with resurrecting people.

Excess. The final straw there. Slaneesh's personality had warped with their loss of the Obsession and Freedom domains - Now only holding Excess, Sin and Sensation. They knew the old Slaneesh well, but the new Slaneesh? Oh, a terrible question he had to solve quickly. The Oathstone's bindings still held, so failure there would merely be disastrous, except now he could afford to lose nothing. Except for his many enemies who would pay to see him lose everything, like the Eldar.

The ones whom he had aggravated by holding portions of the Webway even now. Who would now be recalculating all those decisions that led to a truce in the Webway War and quite possibly coming to new conclusions. After all, the Silver Tide was right next to his doorstep, a middle power (he now regretted not simply extinguishing them when they arrived) yet one practically designed to be as anti-Drukhari as possible. Much more fatally they represented a huge base from which the Eldar could bring in virtually anyone. Krork, Humans, Necrons, or even one of those monstrosities from Avernus. An envenomed thorn in his side.

With all of this.. Vect had to speak with The Clown. He knew Cegorach, and he knew how much the Eldar loathed spending anything if they could choose otherwise.. And so he knew he could make a deal. A deal with the Devil, as Chaos spoke of Cegorach and his deeds. For so famed was Cegorach that large portions of Chaos believed that Cegorach was simply another one of Tzeentch's many faces, an explanation that simply made too much sense to not be the truth to most. So famed that even though he knew it to be impossible, there was always the tiniest nagging thought that laid the blame of the situation on Cegorach and Eldrad. It was impossible, but they were beings that had done exactly that before.

Still.. Despite his situation.. He had assets. He had options. Something could be done. After all, he too had done the impossible before.

===

@Durin

AN: A quick look at Vect's situation and how fucked he is all of a sudden.

And now Cegorach will make a deal with the Devil (Slaneesh/Vect are the Devil to the Eldar), and Vect needs to make a deal with the Devil (Cegorach is like the Devil to Chaos).

(My best guess is that a deal with probably have the Deldar leave the Webway, and the Eldar ask the Silver Tide to go elsewhere plus help Vect retrieve his forces. Those three terms are basically win-win for both parties, so will probably happen. Other terms and concessions are more up in tbe air though. Probably Eldar help so that Vect doesn't die since they don't want Slaneesh to be eaten by Nurgle right now.)
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a good look intpo how screwed Vect is by recent events
 
apparently the magical genius trait doesn't benefit from power/control per durin on discord.

even if we luck out and they manage to stack a pile of learning on top of the expensive traits required to go over 30, I don't think they will ever be (all that) useful as a researcher (edit: at least for most research actions)

plus, I'd think their action-years will be plenty used up by us doing diplo-actions.

[X] Plan Diplomatic Sword
 
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Dragon_352 said:
apparently the magical genius trait doesn't benefit from power/control per durin on discord.

even if we luck out and they manage to stack a pile of learning on top of the expensive traits required to go over 30, I don't think they will ever be useful as a researcher (edit: at least for most research actions)

plus, I'd think their action-years will be plenty used up by us doing diplo-actions.

[X] Plan Diplomatic Sword
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0 psychic research actions involve power, and most of the remainder use Learning as opposed to Control. They will be useful for most research actions. I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion.
 
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Honestly I am can off unsure with the obsession with (Magical Genius) I mean I guess it will be neat if we can eventually add more action for the Telepathica research but we already have 4 heros who are doing that already. Who are probably all fat more experienced than nurma will be.
Especially since unlike nurma those hero for the most part don't have other things to do so they can just devote most off there time toward research
Am I understanding the trait right or is there like more going on for the trait.
 
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Part of the appeal may be the fast-learner trait, that's a really strong synergy for our young genius pick earlier.
 
hamood99 said:
Honestly I am can off unsure with the obsession with (Magical Genius) I mean I guess it will be neat if we can eventually add more action for the Telepathica research but we already have 4 heros who are doing that already. Who are probably all fat more experienced than nurma will be.
Especially since unlike nurma those hero for the most part don't have other things to do so they can just devote most off there time toward research
Am I understanding the trait right or is there like more going on for the trait.
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We have four heroes, in theory, but Ridcully constantly needs to do GDs, nearly all of Aria's time has been siphoned off to ka stuff for ages, Xavier's Learning is crap so he can't actually be put on the tricky stuff without risking wasting those years, and Tamia is only one person, even with the AP reduction trait. Which is to say, the backlog is absolutely huge and anything to alleviate it will help.
 
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Industrial Tech
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    • Industrial Tech

    High Energy Ultradense Forge

    The development and availability of high-powered reactors has coincided with increasingly unreasonable demands for UDA production. Historically ultradense alloys required a sufficiently high pressure environment (a relatively easy task) along with the (far more unreasonable) extremely long timeframes to produce. Presently, a solution to the long timeframe has been found. Specifically, by just throwing more energy at it.

    Utilizing huge amounts of reactors at scale to achieve the energies required, these forges are substantially less cost-effective than previous versions, but have a far greater throughput. More importantly however, they can produce their ultradense alloys immediately on demand, as opposed to going through the unreasonable timeframes required by regular Ultradense Alloy production. Given the far greater infrastructure of the Conclave members, their increased cost is generally more than worthwhile.

    Bulk Matter Transmitter

    Historically, the First Worldship possessed utterly surpassing Teleportation technology that was unfortunately based on different laws of the warp and thus suicidal to use in the modern Warp. However, there was a group for which this frankly crippling limitation was not an issue: Inert matter. Specifically, bulk matter, where the exact composition of the material was not particularly important to its use. Thus was born a variation, termed the Bulk Matter Transporter.

    Based on downgraded versions of the First Worldship's Teleportation Technology, Bulk Matter Transmitters are designed entirely for industrial usage. They involve linked teleporters where teleportation occurs specifically from one teleporter to another, and without a need to ensure that living beings survive the transition, large amounts of matter can be transported at once. As a result, significant amounts of logistics dedicated to their usual movement can be obviated.

    Although their range and throughput is fantastic, these teleporters have issues teleporting even delicate machinery for essentially the same reason they have issues teleporting living beings. Still, they are a useful addition.

    ===

    @Durin

    AN: Some industrial techs. Not much, given the little time and how close we are reaching the end of the tech trees.
     
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    • I was thinking about the issue some people have with Nurma having a sword as WOC; there's a wide selection of weapons that still count as "swords" even while practically covering almost every use for a melee weapon thats been dreamed of.

    You have your:
    : great-swords designed to be wielded by giants in formations who use their superior range/weight to break enemy pikes, swords and shields (or just break the arms holding them).
    : short-swords which go right up to the line and even pass it where you start calling them "daggers".
    : hook-swords designed to be used to grab enemy blades to pull them out of position.
    : scimitars designed to slash across unarmored opponents.
    : rapiers designed to pierce enemy flesh, even through (most) armor.

    I'm thinking that, in line with Nurma being "diplomatic"; She uses a hooked sword (think 'Aruval') and a Slashing weapon (A Sabre --- an architypical officer sword edit: although those are usually 2-handed, so maybe a Scimitar) to control the enemie's options and their movement options while having the hook for picking-through armor of any kind and options for dealing with enemies that out number you.

    In duels, she uses her quick-thinking and understanding of psychology/people to predict what her opponents will do.

    Against wildlife, she can connect the two together to gain the reach thats usually required.

    Now, A especially sharp metal stick just doesn't cut it in this universe. But I think its in line with 40k-styling to "space-ify" your metal stick by saying it has power fields

    But IDK what tech-level that is and how good it is relative to our best stuff. Throwing top-tier warding on them is probably pretty good tho regardless.

    This would work best if she's not just "good" at using swords but geniuinely "innovative" or otherwise especially skilled (IE: if she has the genius of (sword) trait)...but I think it still works with Jane giving her top-tier training.
     
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    [X] Plan: Fast Magic Researcher

    Oh! I hadn't realized this updated into a new thread. Nice!
    And I'd like to see about branching into Magic a bit- plus, 30 combat makes sure we don't end up like our predecessor's Wife/kids/friends/family who died to wildlife.
     
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