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The Long Night Part Three: Bonfire at Dawn (45k)

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Durin said:
Please tag me when you ask questions
1) it's theoretically viable but no one has figured out how to make it work yet barring a couple of edge cases involving twins
2) not yet but once relationship with the necrons has improved a bit
3) good question and maybe for both
4) not really
5) a handful
6) a couple of decades
7) Ka should not be able to blend with Sa like that.
8) unknwon
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right;

I realized I missed it--but I also know that adding the tag afterwords doesn't work.

sorry tho.
 
Alright, so apparently we'll lose access to the Mechanicus, and Telepathic action categories temporarily if we don't take a mentor from either the Mechanicus or the Telepathica but we'll regain access over time and regain full control by turn twenty according to Durin's expectations. With that in mind, I'm not scared of losing access to any categories anymore so I'm simply going to vote to maximize the capability of our new governor by doubling down on the diplomacy-based delegation build.

It also helps that the build is useful at all levels of skill pretty much since it's all about boosting your subordinates, and the institutions you're managing so it doesn't particularly matter how good you are since that only decides how much of a buff you apply to everyone under you as well as to what extent it extends down the chain. And just imagine how good Nurma could get at this considering she's a prodigy, and how much it could do considering how crazy good all of our advisers are at this point.

Just the thought of buffed Tranth, Tamia, Max, Argall and Rakes brings a smile to my face.

[X] Diplomacy
[X] Diplomacy x2
[X] Chief Administrator Martinus Argall- Nurma has worked closely with Martinus Argall and the Administratum. This has given her a solid understanding of the bureaucracy, and an appreciation for just how well method of delegation works. Boost to Admin, better at delegation

And, the vote has been extended people so we do have the time to flip things we just have to get the votes in.
 
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[X] Diplomacy
[X] Diplomacy x2
[X] Learning
[X] Chief Administrator Martinus Argall- Nurma has worked closely with Martinus Argall and the Administratum. This has given her a solid understanding of the bureaucracy, and an appreciation for just how well method of delegation works. Boost to Admin, better at delegation
 
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Just keep in mind that the quest is only expected to run 40 turns, so that's an entire half the quest where we get locked out of research.
 
[X] Diplomacy
[X] Diplomacy x2
[X] Chief Administrator Martinus Argall- Nurma has worked closely with Martinus Argall and the Administratum. This has given her a solid understanding of the bureaucracy, and an appreciation for just how well method of delegation works. Boost to Admin, better at delegation
 
StormySky said:
Just keep in mind that the quest is only expected to run 40 turns, so that's an entire half the quest where we get locked out of research.
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One, how much do we care about choosing the direction of the research if we're getting more of it done and are receiving higher bonuses to our research rolls? Two I have to imagine our control will be on a gradient, not be a hard wall where at a specific turn decided by a variety of factors we instantly go from no control to full control so we'll probably get to start making choices again long before whatever turn we receive full control. And, three I have to imagine a full Diplomacy build will be extremely good at building relations and navigating politics which are the requirements to regain control as stated by Durin since that's the focus of the build's mono-focused stat meaning we'll probably regain control faster than turn twenty.
 
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StormySky said:
How though? Pretty sure the governor isn't in charge of delegating tasks, or anything really, in research departments. That seems to be more an administration and military kind of deal.
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From what we've seen from the Khoswe's leader who's a diplomacy delegation hero it's about selecting the right people for the right role, mentoring them on how to be a good leader and things of that nature.

This results in a positive feedback loop for your institutions where as an example you select the perfect candidate for your head of research who then assembles the perfect research teams, the perfect technicians for each team's work is then assigned to them, and you've also selected the perfect individual to head your administratum and have taught them how to select the best individuals for their subordinate positions improving admin efficency so you have more R&D resources which all comes together to boost your R&D program.

As you can see the entire build appears to function via accruing an uncountable number of little advantages via delegation, and management of your immediate subordinates that when summed together have a large impact on what you're managing. There's a reason that Durin has gone out of his way to consistently talk up the power of delegation for years now.
 
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Sir LagsAlot said:
From what we've seen from the Khoswe's leader who's a diplomacy delegation hero it's about selecting the right people for the right role, mentoring them on how to be a good leader and things of that nature.

This results in a positive feedback loop for your institutions where as an example you select the perfect candidate for your head of research who then assembles the perfect research teams, the perfect technicians for each team's work is then assigned to them, and you've also selected the perfect individual to head your administratum and have taught them how to select the best individuals for their subordinate positions improving admin efficency so you have more R&D resources which all comes together to boost your R&D program.

As you can see the entire build appears to function via accruing an uncountable number of little advantages via delegation, and management of your immediate subordinates that when summed together have a large impact on what you're managing. There's a reason that Durin has gone out of his way to consistently talk up the power of delegation for years now.
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It's less that delegation is useless (it's pretty useful) and more that I don't see how Nurma can do anything to affect our research organizations like being able to apply her delegation skills when they're so insular and have their own internal hierarchies where people on the inside handle all the project decisions and promotions.
 
StormySky said:
It's less that delegation is useless (it's pretty useful) and more that I don't see how Nurma can do anything to affect our research organizations like being able to apply her delegation skills when they're so insular and have their own internal hierarchies where people on the inside handle all the project decisions and promotions.
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If you think that's going to be the issue I don't see a better way of handling it than doubling down on diplomacy to build the relations required and perform the politicking required to allow Nurma to apply her style of delegation to those institutions so that she can buff them. Not only as I've mentioned before is that what diplomacy the stat is all about but they'll actively see the advantages her work has brought to all the other departments of Avernus which will serve as living proof that what she does works.
 
[X] Diplomacy
[X] Diplomacy x2
[X] Chief Administrator Martinus Argall- Nurma has worked closely with Martinus Argall and the Administratum. This has given her a solid understanding of the bureaucracy, and an appreciation for just how well method of delegation works. Boost to Admin, better at delegation
 
I have been requested to provide info on how the various stats are useful. This is in addition to providing certain new options in their category
Martial: Benefits to commanding your forces at war, reduces wildlife losses
Admin: minor reduction in most costs
Intrigue: boost to anti cult/anti infitration defences
Learning: Increased respect from the mechanicus, if high enough can do personal actions in mechanicus
Will: Resistance to mental effects
Diplomacy: Better relations with external groups
Combat: Harder to kill, can act as champion if high enough
 
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Durin said:
Martial: Benefits to commanding your forces at war
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1) This is in addition to the oft-talked-about attrition reduction from higher Martial correct?
Durin said:
Learning: Increased respect from the mechanicus, if high enough can do personal actions in mechanicus
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2) Are you reinstating the Personal Attention action then? Or is this something separate from that?
3) If you are reinstating the Personal Attention action will it be available for the other categories we reach a high enough stat level in as it has been in the past?

For anyone unaware the Personal Attention action was an action under the Personal section for most of the quest that allowed Rotbart to add his stat and trait bonuses to an action in a category he was sufficiently competent in that was removed during Thread Two to help cut down on the amount of work Rotbart was doing as his workload was causing him to literally collapse from stress. At the time of the action's removal, Rotbart was capable enough to boost actions in every category except the Mechanicus and Telepathica although he was leagues away from every being able to add to those considering his twenty-three Learning.

Regardless, if the Personal Attention question comes back as a yes then this matches what I remember about the stats back from when we asked about them during thread two so I still stand by the double Diplomacy delegation build.

Completely unrelated to the vote and my questions why did it take me all these years to realize that the unholy alliance of a cat and a mouse have been working together to make plans for the quest? You think I would have noticed that relationship between Shard and I a long time ago considering the amount I've talked to the guy. :V
 
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[x] Minister of State Kent Cline- The Minister of State has spent much time on Avernus working with the Council of Peoples, and Nurma was often his liaison. In this role she has learned much about diplomacy and how to work with others of different mindsets, a trait often not developed on Avernus.
[X] Learning
[X] Diplomacy
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
1) This is in addition to the oft-talked-about attrition reduction from higher Martial correct?

2) Are you reinstating the Personal Attention action then? Or is this something separate from that?
3) If you are reinstating the Personal Attention action will it be available for the other categories we reach a high enough stat level in as it has been in the past?

For anyone unaware the Personal Attention action was an action under the Personal section for most of the quest that allowed Rotbart to add his stat and trait bonuses to an action in a category he was sufficiently competent in that was removed during Thread Two to help cut down on the amount of work Rotbart was doing as his workload was causing him to literally collapse from stress. At the time of the action's removal, Rotbart was capable enough to boost actions in every category except the Mechanicus and Telepathica although he was leagues away from every being able to add to those considering his twenty-three Learning.

Regardless, if the Personal Attention question comes back as a yes then this matches what I remember about the stats back from when we asked about them during thread two so I still stand by the double Diplomacy delegation build.

Completely unrelated to the vote and my questions why did it take me all these years to realize that the unholy alliance of a cat and a mouse have been working together to make plans for the quest? You think I would have noticed that relationship between Shard and I a long time ago considering the amount I've talked to the guy. :V
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1) yes
2) yes
3) yes
 
[X] Chief Administrator Martinus Argall- Nurma has worked closely with Martinus Argall and the Administratum. This has given her a solid understanding of the bureaucracy, and an appreciation for just how well method of delegation works.
[X] Diplomacy
[X] Diplomacy x2

Ok so i'm going to making two core arguments here, the fist is thematic, the second is crunch. The first argument is a leader who hard focuses on diplomacy and delegation is the perfect successor to Rotbart. He was a great leader, but his flaw as a leader was always micromanagement. A good chunk of his character arc was learning to step back and let other people do the work. heck, the very reason he's stepping down is so that Avernus does not become a cult of personality. A successor who is entirely about getting the most out of her subordinates rather than trying to be omni competent herself is a perfect fit. A rejection of "the great man" so to speak, instead a ruler who'se strength is her cabinet.

The second is crunch, we already have ridiculously powerful heroes under us. We have more paragons in just our government than most powers goddamn have. The biggest bonus we could get is not trying to make our leader good enough to help personally, its to give our already ridiculous advisors more boni. In general, a head of state focused on buffing others will get the most bang for their buck, and that is doubly true as the competency of their subordinates goes up. our subirdnates include the likes of Tranith, Tamia, Ridcully, and Jane when she's not busy stabing galaxy shaking threats to death. If your not sure about this, remember General Hye Richards? his Mentor of Heroes trait was a massive boon to bulding up the skill of our millitary. That is the sort of thing goign all in on diplomacy and delegation might lead to, and frankly a +10 to a paragon is immensly useful.
 
[X] Learning

[X] Yourself- You took Nurma as a student and successor long ago, and have taught her what you can of both administration and war over that time
 
[X] Diplomacy
[X] Diplomacy x2
[X] Chief Administrator Martinus Argall- Nurma has worked closely with Martinus Argall and the Administratum. This has given her a solid understanding of the bureaucracy, and an appreciation for just how well method of delegation works. Boost to Admin, better at delegation
 
realised I missed a bit from the last updated


Finally there is the Council of Peoples, both one of the oldest and youngest powers in the galaxy. The Council of Peoples is a federation formed in the last couple of centuries by most of the sentient species of Avernus, some of which remember the formation of the Aeldari Dominion. While not strictly part of the Council of Peoples, the the forces of the Lizardmen and Avernus itself are de facto members, providing a core that would be considered elites even in the War in Heaven. While contained entirely within one, rather crowded, solar system, the Council of Peoples earns its place as a Great Power for sheer quality. With every race being either a mastercrafted bioweapon made by the last World of the Old Ones, or the Servants of the Firstborn themselves the Council of Peoples is a threat way greater then its small size would indicate. You should know, they live on your homeworld.
So far the only real actions of the Council of Peoples in the wider galaxy have been sending forces to help deal with Lorgar's Folly and Be'lakor's Gambit but that will soon change.
In war the Council of Peoples relies on a level of psychic development only rivaled by the Aeldari, supported by Conclave standard materium technology and countless living bioweapons, many of which can crush Titans.
 
[X] Diplomacy
[X] Diplomacy x2

[X] Chief Administrator Martinus Argall- Nurma has worked closely with Martinus Argall and the Administratum. This has given her a solid understanding of the bureaucracy, and an appreciation for just how well method of delegation works. Boost to Admin, better at delegation.

what there to vote other than this?
 
Not sure we CAN pick the same trait twice tbh; plus, I feel like intrigue would synergize with diplo.

[X] Diplomacy
[X] Intrigue

[X] Chief Administrator Martinus Argall- Nurma has worked closely with Martinus Argall and the Administratum. This has given her a solid understanding of the bureaucracy, and an appreciation for just how well method of delegation works. Boost to Admin, better at delegation.
 
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