Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
- Start date
- Crossover
It seems that 30K combat robots weren't made with pieces of brain like post-Heresy ones, but still had (completely synthetic) biotech 'brains' controlling them. And the 30K robots were the relics of DAoT equipment the Mechanicus was cargo culting. It was only post-Heresy that they dumbed them down further after discovering they were too easy for daemons to possess.
There weren't electronic 'pilots' on the inside. This is presumably because when the AI rebellion happened at the end of the DAoT they found other solutions back then. That's why they're combat robots not men of iron or stone, because they're running on wetware. Synthetic biology bio plastic wetware, but wetware none the less.
The main thing is that combat robots require astonishingly expensive technology plus some advanced biotech. That's the same as space marines, but space marines' biotech is cheaper and they need less tech and they cheat with Mythos influence.
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Even so 30K are apocalypse survivors, it is reasonable to assume that less expensive robots are out there, the same way better power armor is, or if not a more productive industrial capacity. Either way there are use cases for soldiers you can afford to lose to the last especially in a setting like this one.
The thing is, we have Resources 1. We're desperately poor. It's much easier for us to make people than large amounts of hypertech materials that requires an entire hypertech industrial civilization to refine and produce from the raw materials. CCP lets us make people and materials in their natural state. It doesn't let us make refined materials.
Every combat robot we make is probably multiple suits of power armour we're not making, simply on volume considerations.
We can afford to lose men a lot more than we can afford to lose machines. Every machine we make is an artisan product hand crafted from raw materials by an artisan. We have no organised industry, no mines. no power stations, no refineries, no forges, no factories, no assembly lines. Our productivity is probably incredibly low as we're pre-mass production so specialisation is impossible.
Remember, we're talking about a few years here. In ten years we may have the industrial capacity to build both combat robots and gear for our soldiers. At present, I very much doubt we do.
At the moment, I'd much prefer to build things like strategic bombers than combat robots, and the aircraft are almost certainly cheaper.
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[X] [Rebuilding] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
- [X] Thalassa 'has a number of tech-priest followers'. Grant one of them each the Logis, Cordnator, Alchemys and Metallurgicus Savant specialties to examine the physical makeup and potential programming of the robot. Grant one the Provender specialism to examine growing any organics precursor materials required.
- [X] Thalassa 'has a number of tech-priest followers'. Grant one of them each the Logis, Cordnator, Alchemys and Metallurgicus Savant specialties to examine the physical makeup and potential programming of the robot. Grant one the Provender specialism to examine growing any organics precursor materials required.
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We can make Resources out of the warp. Granted we can also make people out of the warp, but I would rather spend metal than lives where we can even if they are lives we conjured
We can make Resources out of the warp, but we can't make resources.
The Resources we can make exist in the form of portable wealth, explicitly not immediately usable resources. If we want to create things that we can actually use, we need to shape land that contains deposits of ores that can be mined, refined, processed into raw materials, then alloyed and further engineered into the super-tech end products we need.
We can't just make ceramite or adamant or plasteel or similar. We can create the precursor materials that after a long and expensive industrial process can be combined together to make them.
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- Location
- Arcadia
[X] [Discipline] Dominus
Source on that? It seams rather arbitrary. How is 'sheets of ceramite' any harder to make than a soldier in power armor made of ceramite?
If I'm interpreting it right we can't actually make power armor made of ceramite using that charm either. We have to make the minerals and metals that go into making ceramite make it into ceramite plates and then make the power armor ourselves. We essentially transform the landscape to have the veins of the minerals and metals and then mine it refine it then build with it.
We can't make a soldier in power armour either, I think. There's no option in our charm to make technology, unless we can use the Magical Things option, which is very, very expensive in terms of time. We can probably make hundreds or thousands of people for the number of successes require to make one combat robot.
The 2.5 errata has the best clarification of wyldshaping/cauldron.
Here, the only way we can create material resources is this:
The wealth option is just meant to create portable wealth, money, basically, not crafting materials.
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OK. Thanks for looking that up
[X] [Discipline] Dominus
[X] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
[X] [Discipline] Dominus
[X] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
[X] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
So, if I was actually picking based on what would be most useful strategically, the one I'd pick above all others is one of these three:
-[] Provender
If we're sensible, we'll shape a whole load of people and some fertile land next turn. Unfortunately, as a nomadic desert tribe, we'd have no idea what to need to do with said fertile land in order to feed said people.
-[] Alchemys
Chemical engineering is an absolutely foundational requirement for an industrial civilization. As soon as we shape some land with the right rawe materials, we're going to start needing to build chemical refineries. Without petrochemicals we may also need to grow crops as feed materials for any organics like plastics.
-[] Metallurgicus
Similarly, metallurgy is another absolutely critical foundation for expansion.
Seeing as people are dead set on Dominus, I wonder if we can go with:
[X] [Rebuilding] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
- [X] Thalassa 'has a number of tech-priest followers'. Grant one of them each the Logis, Cordnator, Alchemys and Metallurgicus Savant specialties to examine the physical makeup and potential programming of the robot. Grant one the Provender specialism to examine growing any organics precursor materials required.
[X] [Discipline] Dominus
-[] Provender
If we're sensible, we'll shape a whole load of people and some fertile land next turn. Unfortunately, as a nomadic desert tribe, we'd have no idea what to need to do with said fertile land in order to feed said people.
-[] Alchemys
Chemical engineering is an absolutely foundational requirement for an industrial civilization. As soon as we shape some land with the right rawe materials, we're going to start needing to build chemical refineries. Without petrochemicals we may also need to grow crops as feed materials for any organics like plastics.
-[] Metallurgicus
Similarly, metallurgy is another absolutely critical foundation for expansion.
Seeing as people are dead set on Dominus, I wonder if we can go with:
[X] [Rebuilding] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
- [X] Thalassa 'has a number of tech-priest followers'. Grant one of them each the Logis, Cordnator, Alchemys and Metallurgicus Savant specialties to examine the physical makeup and potential programming of the robot. Grant one the Provender specialism to examine growing any organics precursor materials required.
[X] [Discipline] Dominus
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[X] [Discipline] Dominus
[X] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
[X] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
Just to note, we've been asked for a stunt to repair the robot.
That's why I added my extra section to the vote. Just assembly isn't all we need, in the update Fan talked about replacing parts with improved materials. To do that we'll need some Magi who are experts in the material sciences and know how to produce them.
That's why I want to give Thalassa's retainers Savant specialties of their own, so they can do the leg work on that part of the process.
That's why I added my extra section to the vote. Just assembly isn't all we need, in the update Fan talked about replacing parts with improved materials. To do that we'll need some Magi who are experts in the material sciences and know how to produce them.
That's why I want to give Thalassa's retainers Savant specialties of their own, so they can do the leg work on that part of the process.
Have they been useful enough to merit another wish though?
They pay for their wish after it's granted. If they help with the research into the robot, that should be enough, and if not they can pay it back by something like writing down the knowledge they gained, or by working on other projects, like building up our currently absent agriculture and basic industry.
It's just like we can grant random members of our community Wishes as long as they do something for us for the next year, even if that's allow the results of their Wishes to be studied.
In terms of how historically useful they've been, I expect they've assisted with everything Thalassa has done so far in the background.
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[X] [Discipline] Dominus
[X] [Rebuilding] Use CCC: All things great and small leave a shadow through time, the mark of their presence rippling ever onward from the moment of their creation to this very hour. Those shadows uncounted you will read and reassemble into one singular entity restored.
[X] [Rebuilding] Use CCC: All things great and small leave a shadow through time, the mark of their presence rippling ever onward from the moment of their creation to this very hour. Those shadows uncounted you will read and reassemble into one singular entity restored.
Is there a reason why people don't want to get Thalassa's retainers help?
It's what they're for, and if we give them a Savan rating they'd be much more useful at both this and subsequent tasks in future.
From the Informational post about Craft projects:
Note that it does not say this doesn't stack, so I'm hoping that if we upgrade Thalassa's followers with the Savant rating they're count for one extra roll and Thalassa will count for another.
If not, I think that having experts at the processes for making materials would narratively make it easier to upgrade the robot's materials.
It's what they're for, and if we give them a Savan rating they'd be much more useful at both this and subsequent tasks in future.
From the Informational post about Craft projects:
Note that it does not say this doesn't stack, so I'm hoping that if we upgrade Thalassa's followers with the Savant rating they're count for one extra roll and Thalassa will count for another.
If not, I think that having experts at the processes for making materials would narratively make it easier to upgrade the robot's materials.
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[X] [Discipline] Dominus
Just following up on this, you're right on Savant, but it depends which source you're using for other Backgrounds. In M20, several of them go up to 10 to represent the scale of the modern economy and society - and in a galactic society it would arguably make sense to use the M20 Backgrounds and then extend the scale further above ten to reflect multi-system and mulit-sector scales.