Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
- Start date
- Crossover
Or army is a couple of dozen people, and TDC only protects from the environmental damage caused by being in a place of desolation, I think.
Us conjuring up a storm isn't caused by being in a desert, it's an attack.
So, if we want Lorgar to be a powerful psyker, we need to keep shaping his Mythos to include that.
This makes me want to give him an obvious psyker power like Photokinesis and have him him a narratively important victory with it to channel his Mythos development in a useful way.
Fan defeating an enemy is less valuable for us than giving Lorgar the tools to do so. Also, Lorgsr can then go off on campaign while we build infrastructure, which we have a much greater comparative example of. Us casting battlefield sorcery is a waste of our time relative to Shaping a new society out of the ether.
Can mortal psykers with enlightened essence using essence to fuel psyker powers as well?
If so the gauntlet is much more useful.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Kind of. Magnus has the "Wizard" mythos, (Not exactly but close enough) and other advantages so Lorgar will never match, nor would anyone else outside of the Emperor.
Look at how Canon Lorgar was all over the place, power wise.
He could force Horus to take him seriously at one point, because his mythos applied fully and in the next, got bitten like a drum by people much weaker.
So ant Aspects, if they apply, work just as well.
It is less power and more rock-paper-sizors.
So really we probably should not lock in Lorgar as any kind of beatstick. We are going to have to use him that way in the short term, but getting the gauntlet soft locks him into magical beasttick just because he does not roll Perils. Thing is Fan also does not roll perils and he has charms to make him a better wizard. Heck remember how we met the ad mech, even without sorcery Fan can take people appart at a distance with MHM. Mind Hand Manipulation as used with all our bonuses and CCC is probably more afficient than a 5 dot psychic power rolled with 'only' Willpower 10.
Say we gave him Telekinsis, assume that the powers of the warp were equal to the charms of an infernal exalted acting wthin their domain (Big ask). We can produce more successes than Lorgar has dice if we alpha strike.
Now of course one might resonably say if we make it light rather than force and give him the gaultlet it might bridge the gap, and that might even be right, but is that all we want to dow with his artifact slot given the long term implications?
Say we gave him Telekinsis, assume that the powers of the warp were equal to the charms of an infernal exalted acting wthin their domain (Big ask). We can produce more successes than Lorgar has dice if we alpha strike.
Now of course one might resonably say if we make it light rather than force and give him the gaultlet it might bridge the gap, and that might even be right, but is that all we want to dow with his artifact slot given the long term implications?
Hmm. So Lorgar couldn't, say, get a psyker aspect to the Human part of his Mythos.
We don't need Lorgar to match Magnus with psyker powers alone, but have it as a contributing element to something that adds up to more than the sum of its parts.
On that note, I wonder if Lorgar can develop or we can grant psyker powers that are designed to synergise with True Faith. Astropaths can learn faith based psyker powers that grant blessings to others, for example.
Thing is, with a Light based power his Mythos multiplier means he's going to be much, much better than Fan at energy blasting.
Mind Hand Manipulation does the same damage that a person would do when hitting someone else. A strong person hitting with a sword, but MHM should do nothing whatsoever to someone in power armour or to a tank. Something like a fluff lasgun is very likely more damaging than MHM.
Lorgar, by contrast, should be able to do things like fire volcano cannons with his mind. Decently powerful psykers who aren't demigods can solo titans. MHM is something that gives a significant but not overwhelming advantage when fighting small groups of baseline mortals with medieval weapons.
We're literally talking about the differnce in scale between a hand grenade and a thermonuclear bomb.
High grade psyker powers are much; much much wider scale and more powerful than non-elder charms, and some are much more powerful than any charm, like psykers who can mind control hundreds of billions of people spread across multiple star systems simultaneously. The downside is that psyker powers are much more dangerous to the user.
Remember that Fan isn't a psyker. He's a sorcerer. Sorcery isn't the go to for direct combat power. It's about rituals and preparation, not being a person of mass destruction on the battle field in the way a psyker is.
And psyker powers aren't just about being a bear stick. They're very relevant strategically. Telepathy and Precognition are a big deal.
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This is what MHM could do before we learned how to make the damage aggravated, entirely pointless against armored opponents.... until you just strip it off them. I don't think random McChaos Beserker is much more dangerous or better armored than an elite Skitarii
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When it comes to grappling (which is what we were doing there with MHM), I expect they could well be; as a Skitarii may not be optimised for close combat, but for ranged combat.
Note that what Fan did there was disable their technological equipment including their cybernetics. We can't do things like unplug power cables to chaos barbarians who don't use high technology.
And that use of MHM is no where close to the 'nice city you had there' level of attacks that powerful mortal psykers can manage. Astropaths Transcendent can do damage that's relevant on the scale of 40K capital ship combat, and without wanting to get all Versus debate about it, that's a big deal.
Wasn't the argument a moment ago that they were advanced and have tanks and high tech, the kind of things that have a lot of bolts you can pull? If we want to go for city leveling that is what maelstrom is for and if we want to make sure our own guys do not get hit with maelstrom just... don't bring them. I mean in the hypothetical 'Lorgar nukes them with light' scenario it's not like a few guys on bikes would make much of a difference. As for organic barbarians with swords being being somehow more hardened than cyborgs... against a power that does aggravated damage, it does not take a lot of force to sever an artery and if you have enough multi-tasking to unplug scores of cables you can cut scores of arteries.
The argument was that they're superhuman mutants blessed by the Chaos Gods specially to screw us over. They may also have some archeotech of their own, we don't know.
My discussion about tanks and power armour was about Lorgar's long term abilities. When we go on campaign him being able to kill titans with his mind could make a big difference. Particularly if we want to start expanding off-world before the Emperor arrives.
At that point setting conceit says that Lorgar should be capable of leading from the front. We can concentrate on building infrastructure and nurturing hero units behind the scenes. That's much safer for us and for Lorgar.
I think it's a waste of our time to be conjuring storms when Lorgar can likely do mass attacks better in the short run and we'll have air support and orbital bombardment in the longer run.
Lorgar can't Shape reality, reverse engineer archeotech, make people and demons from nowhere, etc, and he'll never be able to. That's where we comparatively shine.
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dragon
Ancalagon the Black
- Location
- The Skies of Arda
In the long run, we are going to get all the choices. Once we have consistent access to milhand, they're going to bury us archeotech.
So, I'm not sure how great the long term opportunity cost actually is.
That said...
[X] Plan Ironman in a Cave with a Box of Rocks
Even if the tribesman can't figure it out in time for this battle, they still have skitari equipment.
In the grim dark future, the only certainty is that we're going to fight some dudes in glorious melee combat before we hook up with milhand again.
Then we'll have all the Spaceballs we can handle.
So, I'm not sure how great the long term opportunity cost actually is.
That said...
[X] Plan Ironman in a Cave with a Box of Rocks
Even if the tribesman can't figure it out in time for this battle, they still have skitari equipment.
In the grim dark future, the only certainty is that we're going to fight some dudes in glorious melee combat before we hook up with milhand again.
Then we'll have all the Spaceballs we can handle.
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[X] Plan Ironman in a Cave with a Box of Rocks
[X] Plan Ironman in a Cave with a Box of Rocks
[X] Plan Ironman in a Cave with a Box of Rocks
[X] Super-Psykers
A way to buff the already god level psyker we have on the board yes please.
A way to buff the already god level psyker we have on the board yes please.
We can make people minor psykers. Can we do the opposite and make them minor blanks as well? That would be a decent anti psyker/daemon task force.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
That would be the mutation that cancells warp powers. Though this is not strictly a proper blank as they do not have the Pariah aura. It is complicated, but they are functionally the same but minus the "lack of soul" and "lack of willpower/creativity/etc" that a proper Pariah/blank has.
KnightofTempest
The Man who would be King
- Location
- Chicago
[X] Plan Ironman in a Cave with a Box of Rocks
[X] Plan Ironman in a Cave with a Box of Rocks
-[X] Aegis-Pattern Power Armor
-[X] Cost-effectiveness 3
-[X] Alternative to Exotic Components 2
-[X] Production Ease 2
-[X] Aegis-Pattern Power Armor
-[X] Cost-effectiveness 3
-[X] Alternative to Exotic Components 2
-[X] Production Ease 2
A question for people voting for the Ironman option.
If we go for the Psyker option, our one psyker can wear the glove and get a massive bonus to their power, which could have massive effects on the strategic scale considering the existence of divination and precognition powers as well as direct attack ones.
If we get the armour, one of our super units can wear the armour, but our super units are already super and very hard for enemies to kill.
Remember that we have Resources 2. It's exceptionally unlikely that we'll be able to build any more suits any time soon, whatever modifiers we add.
If we go for the Psyker option, our one psyker can wear the glove and get a massive bonus to their power, which could have massive effects on the strategic scale considering the existence of divination and precognition powers as well as direct attack ones.
If we get the armour, one of our super units can wear the armour, but our super units are already super and very hard for enemies to kill.
Remember that we have Resources 2. It's exceptionally unlikely that we'll be able to build any more suits any time soon, whatever modifiers we add.
Since navigation does not seem to be getting anymore votes
[X] Super-Psykers
[X] Super-Psykers
A thought on the Navigation Orb. @Yzarc, as it makes warp travel faster, if we give the repaired orb to the Archmagos could he stay longer and still get back to Milhaud at the same time, so we could fix/reverse engineer another artifact?
Perhaps paired with either optimising/upgrading his Navigator's Warp Eye mutation or granting them greater skill at Navigation or specifically in using the orb?
Perhaps paired with either optimising/upgrading his Navigator's Warp Eye mutation or granting them greater skill at Navigation or specifically in using the orb?
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
The time constraint is also that you are being attacked.
So it is not just travel time.
That said, the Archmagos is not about to risk his life with untested tech. He will still need to extensively test it before being satisfied.
OOC: It works, but he does not know that IC.