I was thinking of what else we can offer the Archmagos. presumably he has other minions, vassals and allies that he hasn't brought with him, if he's powerful enough to realistically take over his Forge World and assemble the assets we've seen here (normal Magi can't access interstellar spaceships or Skitarii). It would be to his advantage for those minions and for his vassals' and allies' minions, or the vassals/allies themselves, to be more competent.

We can offer a deal where he can offer the opportunity to effectively serve as mercenaries. We'll augment their officers and senior staff, or them, and they'll have their forces fight alongside us for a year.l, and reverse engineer some selected pieces of archeotech for them.

This is win-win-win*.

It's good for the Archmagos to be able to offer the opportunity. It strengthens his current allies/vassals, makes them owe him for the chance, and is an incentive for new allies/vassals to align themselves with him.

It's good for the allies/vassals as they'll get more powerful retinues/personal abilities and might get some very valuable archeotech blueprints.

And it's good for us, as we'll get some hyper-tech military forces to help defeat the Covenant and build wider alliances on the Forge World.

There are a couple of institutions that are of special note. First up, the Skitarii. If we consider how a Forge World is organised in this era:


You can see that the Skitarius are a separate branch of the military/heirarchy. That makes sense. They're a sub-cult with their own rituals and mysteries dedicated to the Man-Machine Militant and with their own command structure only formally answerable to the Fabricator General. If you think about it in medieval Catholic terms, an Archmagos like our friend is a Bishop, the Fabricator General is the Pope, and the Skitarius are the Knights of Malta.

The fact that there are some here in our ally's retinue means he has contacts within their leadership structure who have seconded some of their troops to accompany him. Their commanders back home may be interested in getting some of their officers or elites augmented by us. They might be particularly interested if when we grant physical mutation to a full conversion cyborg it upgrades their cyberware in a way that can be reverse engineered and rolled out to upgrade the rest of their forces in their own forges.This is particularly interesting as if it works like this a full conversion cyborg may be happy to receive something like a chameleon skin mutation that manifests as a piece of technology in a way that if granted as a biological mutation would be seen as an abomination. There are some other mutations that might manifest as pieces of integrated techbology for a full conversion cyborg that would require and so manifest as a supernatural power for a biological creative, like invisibility. That's a bit more speculative, but if so the leaders of the Skitarius would quite possibly be willing to do a lot to get access to such technology to upgrade their members.

Once again, that benefits both us and the Archmages. The Skitarius leadership is more likely to support his ascension to become Fabricator General if he's given them this opportunity, and supplying an army to fight alongside us is relatively easy for them. The regular Magos of a Forge World maintain some military/dual purpose forces to defend themselves from internecine conflict and to meet their feudal obligations in case of general war. The Skitarius are a full time professional miltary.

The other major faction we can help him appeal to is his Forge World's Navigator House. If we give his Navigator's genetics a tune up they'll probably be willing to pay both him and us almost anything they can manage in return for us doing the same to the rest of his house, and when they learn we can (probably) grant the knowledge and skill of how to use the Warp Eye that will only redouble.

The Navigators are probably very influential amongst the Basilikon Astra, the institution responsible for building and operating the Forge World's fleet, and so can likely ensure that any potential allies/mercenaries who are interested in coming and helping will be transported here, and also that we'll be able to get plentiful orbital fire support and transport.

Looking at how much we can offer, Lorgar can make a very, very good sales pitch to the Arch Magos, and probably advise him on how best to sell the opportunity on to those who might be interested, we could also ask for more than simple military support. Given the way the Mechanicus thinks of them, I wonder if we can effectively 'buy' a population of voidborn menials and lower ranking Tech Adepts from the Basilikon Astra via the Navigators, along with their assistance relating the shipyards in orbit enough for them to be habitable. Forge Worlds are feudal institutions, and menials and the lower ranks are chattels whose vassalage can be transferred.

Lorgar can then teach and uplift them spiritually to ensure their loyalty and happiness in our service, Fan can grant a core set of leaders the knowledge and skills to teach their fellows to continue repairs to the shipyards.

This gives us a massive head start on making Colchis useful and gives us a much larger population and economy which is a big force multiplier.

It also starts to restore the world's narrative. It's no longer a just a world of faith and deserts that it's become. It's also returning to being the world of progress and industry that it once was.

We should think big. We have some very powerful tools and through the Archmagos a very powerful neighbour we can use them on to mutual benefit.

* Except for Chaos. They don't get to win from this.
 
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One question Yzarc, can we buy Lorgar an Avatar background or merits??? As a primarch he should have a fragment of the emperor inside of him and he was able to access his knowledge during the essence awakening. Having access to fragments of his Lore and knowledge at hand would be extremely usefull, even if its only pieces of It.
Not sure how that would work tbh. So probably not as Primarches are their own distince things as much as they have bits of the Emperor in them. Can't say more on this.
 
Votes closed.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on May 24, 2024 at 11:09 AM, finished with 66 posts and 19 votes.
 
Hm, time to begin the vision quest, then.

As a Primarch with a Solaroid Exalted, an Infernal no less, as his mentor and surrogate parent, Lorgar is doubly fated to forever live in interesting times.
 
Turn 4: Visions and omens
Colchis - 831.M30

Under the silvery glow of the moons, the tribe assembled in a sacred circle around a blazing fire, its flickering flames casting dancing shadows on the faces of those gathered. Tonight was no ordinary night; it was a night of profound significance. Raheem, the venerable shaman and trusted advisor, stood at the heart of the gathering, a figure of solemnity and ancient wisdom.

He had concocted a mystical elixir, a potion of dreams that would plunge both you and Lorgar into a deep, visionary slumber. This journey was essential for Lorgar to embark on his vision quest, and you were chosen to be his steadfast guide through the uncharted realms of the spiritual.

As the flames leaped and crackled, painting the night air with a sense of mystique, Raheem approached, cradling a bowl brimming with a shimmering, iridescent liquid. His gaze met yours and Lorgar's, carrying the gravity of what was to transpire.

"The time has come," Raheem's voice resonated, echoing with the weight of ancient knowledge. "Lorgar, it is your destiny to seek the counsel of the spirits and unveil your true path. And you," he turned to you, "shall be his guardian, ensuring his safe passage through the ethereal realms."

Lorgar's eyes gleamed with determination and trust as he met your gaze. "I am ready," he declared.

With a nod of resolve, you acknowledged your role. "And so am I."

With a grand gesture, Raheem initiated the ritual, uttering incantations in a language lost to time. His words hung in the air, resonating with a potent energy. He anointed both your foreheads with the liquid, a cool, tingling sensation spreading through your being.

"Drink," commanded Raheem, offering the bowl first to Lorgar, then to you.

As the warm liquid slid down your throat, a profound sense of transition enveloped you. The world around you blurred and dissolved, the sounds of the fire and chanting fading into distant echoes. You felt as though you were descending, not in body but in spirit, delving into the depths of your own consciousness.

When your eyes opened, you stood in a realm unlike any you had known. The sky above swirled with vibrant hues, while the ground beneath your feet radiated with an inner light. Lorgar stood beside you, his form translucent yet undeniably real.

"We have arrived," Lorgar breathed, awe and uncertainty blending in his voice.

With a comforting hand on his shoulder, you assured him. "This is the vision realm. The answers you seek lie here."

You led Lorgar across a landscape in flux, where mountains soared and vanished, rivers appeared and disappeared, and plants shone with an ethereal light. An innate sense from the ritual guided you with certainty.

At last, you came upon a vast desert, its sands scorched by an unrelenting sun. Heat waves danced in the distance, and the horizon stretched into eternity.Standing beside Lorgar, you both gazed out at the undulating dunes, knowing that the true test of his vision quest was about to unfold.

Raheem appeared before them, seemingly out of nowhere, his robes billowing in the hot wind as he neared, his gaze ancient and knowing, locking onto Lorgar's with purpose.

Gesturing toward the distant mountains, their peaks obscured by shimmering haze, he spoke with authority, "There lies the Temple of the Burning Sun. Within its walls, you will find the answers you seek. But the path is treacherous, and the desert tests even the strongest of wills."

As Raheem's figure faded into the desert's embrace, you and Lorgar set forth, the sand swallowing your footsteps. The relentless sun beat down, and the air grew thin with each step. Ahead, Raheem walked, his staff leaving faint imprints in the shifting sands, his words of ancient rites and trials blurring in the heat haze.

Approaching the mountains, the terrain shifted, sand giving way to rugged rocks, twisted cacti clinging to life. Lorgar's breaths grew ragged, but his determination remained steadfast. Offering him water from your flask, he drank gratefully, his resolve unwavering.

At the entrance of the Temple, Raheem seemingly reappeared, raising his arms and chanting in a language older than time. The massive doors swung open, revealing a dimly lit chamber filled with the scent of incense and forgotten secrets. Lorgar stepped forward, and you followed.

The walls were adorned with murals depicting scenes of epic battles, cosmic storms, and gods locked in eternal struggle. As Lorgar touched one, his eyes widened. "These are visions," he whispered. "Visions of the past, the present, and the future."

Raheem nodded sagely. "The Temple exists beyond time," he explained. "Here, you will confront your inner demons, face your fears, and emerge stronger."

With that, Raheem vanished, leaving a lingering sense of finality. As Lorgar ventured deeper into the Temple, his footsteps echoing, shadows danced on the walls, and whispers filled the air. He encountered illusions, a mirror reflecting his darkest desires, a pool showing glimpses of alternate realities. Each trial tested his resolve, loyalty, and purpose.

Suddenly, the air grew colder, and the shadows deepened, signaling a darker presence approaching. From the depths of the chamber emerged a figure, tall and menacing, a Daemon, his eyes glowing with malevolent light, crackling with dark energy.

The sight of the Daemon sent a ripple of fear and awe through you. Lorgar recognized him, shock and confusion evident in his eyes. The Daemon smiled, a warm, knowing smile.

"Welcome, Lorgar," the Daemon's voice echoed, deep and resonant. "I have been expecting you."

"Who are you?" Lorgar asked, standing his ground, asking a question whose answer he already knew.

"You know the answer to that. " the Daemon chiddend Lorgar.

"Say it." Lorgar said, forcing the words out of his mouth.

"I am you," the Daemon Primarch Lorgar replied, his voice resonating with power and allure, "or rather, what you could become. But fear not, for I am here to guide you."

As you stepped forward, ready to defend Lorgar, the Daemon Primarch raised a hand, his gaze piercing. "There is no need for conflict. This is a vision, a test. I am here to show Lorgar the choices that lie before him."

Lorgar looked to you, seeking reassurance, and you nodded, recognizing the gravity of this moment.

"This is part of your journey," you said. "You must face yourself to truly understand your destiny."

Lorgar paused, looking at the Daemon Primarch before him before asking, "So you are what happens if I fail? If I succumb to corruption?"

The Daemon Lorgar laughed a genuine laugh, "Corruption? Is that what you think this is? No, my younger self, Chaos is the true essence of the universe. It is power, freedom, and transcendence beyond the petty limitations of humanity and the false promises of the Emperor."

Lorgar clenched his fists, his voice steady but filled with determination. "Humanity is better than that, more than that. We will rise above our base instincts and forge a future of unity and progress. Chaos only seeks to destroy and enslave."

Daemon Lorgar gave him a smile filled with pity. "You misunderstand, my naive self. Chaos offers liberation from lies. Through Chaos, you can achieve true enlightenment, power beyond your wildest dreams."

Lorgar shook his head, his heart heavy with the weight of his conviction. "Power at what cost? The ruin of our souls? The descent into madness and destruction? I have seen the devastation that Chaos brings. It is a path of ruin, not salvation."

The Daemon Lorgar stepped closer crossing his arms. "Ruin, you say? What is ruin but a necessary step towards rebirth? Through Chaos, we can reshape the universe, cast aside the chains of false order, and create a new reality. One where true potential can flourish."

Lorgar met his dark reflection's gaze, unwavering. "No. True potential lies in humanity, in our capacity for growth, compassion, and unity. Humanity may be flawed, but humanity's future is one of hope, not despair. I will not abandon my people to the darkness."

Daemon Lorgar's smile faltered, a flicker of regret crossing his features. "You are a fool, my past self. You cling to false hope and empty promises. Chaos is inevitable. You cannot resist its call forever."

Lorgar stood tall, his voice resolute. "I can and I will. I believe in humanity's potential to overcome its darkest impulses, to build a future of light and understanding. I will not be swayed by the temptations of Chaos."

Daemon Lorgar closed his eyes and let out a sigh. "So be it, then. But know this, Chaos is always there, lurking in the shadows, waiting for a moment of weakness. Should you ever falter, it will consume you. Chaos is inevitable, remember that and save what little you can when the time comes."

There was a silence where no one spoke.

Finally, the Daemon Primarch then opened his eyes and spoke once more. "So be it then. Choose a guide who embodies the virtues you aspire to, the strengths you wish to cultivate. You have many options, my younger self. Consider carefully."

One by one, potential guides appeared before Lorgar, each radiating a different kind of strength and virtue.

CHOOSE ONE: THEY ARE FROM 40K

[] Leman Russ, the Wolf King:
–Clad in his fearsome armor, Russ exuded raw power and unyielding courage. His loyalty to the Emperor and his sense of honor made him a formidable guide.

[] Lion El'Jonson, the First Primarch:
–With his noble bearing and strategic brilliance, the Lion represented leadership and unbreakable will. His presence commanded respect and inspired greatness.

[] Corax, the Shadow:
–Master of stealth and tactics, Corax represented freedom and the fight against oppression. His determination to bring justice to the oppressed was unwavering.
 
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We are beggining very strongly, who won the social clash???

Ed I think I`ve discovered something, Alternate future Lorgar began telling the words <Chaos is inevitable. You cannot resist its call forever.> but then after Lorgar rebukes him he only says that <Chaos is inevitable>, which means that he might have lost some of his faith in being able to convert Lorgar to his gods.
 
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[X] Leman Russ, the Wolf King:

He knows shaman lore and he is strong of mind, which we need.

Ed Ive have read his story, and yes this sounds more fun

[X] Corax, the Shadow
 
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[] Corax, the Shadow:
–Master of stealth and tactics, Corax represented freedom and the fight against oppression. His determination to bring justice to the oppressed was unwavering.
Is this future Corax the one who realizes his full potential as a primarch becoming a warp entity himself in process , cleaned demon primach lorgar clock and is still to this day chasing Lorgar down in the warp to exact karma
 
Is this future Corax the one who realizes his full potential as a primarch becoming a warp entity himself in process , cleaned demon primach lorgar clock and is still to this day chasing Lorgar down in the warp to exact karma
Yes and Yes. Which is why many people are finding the notion of him having to guide Lorgar and not be allowed to hunt/hurt Daemon Lorgar for the duration of the vision quest so funny.
 
[X] Corax, the Shadow:
–Master of stealth and tactics, Corax represented freedom and the fight against oppression. His determination to bring justice to the oppressed was unwavering.


I' choosing Corax because it would be hilarious, fits Lorgar's Rebel quirk and frankly I rather not Big E's number one suck ups guiding him and I don't like that gold fetish supermacist ass.
 
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