Are we going to face immediate danger though?

I don't know, but I'm not going to plan as if the chance is 0%. Reflection + Heart-Reader means if we appear in any world where superhuman stats are common, we can easily secure superhuman stats which grants coverage against natural disasters, hostile climate, many classes of dungeon traps - there are all sorts of dangers which are outside context to a socialize / disguise build, and the value of social skills is contingent upon your inherent strength anyway.

Speaking softly doesn't work if you don't have a big stick, so it's not clear to me that a pure social skills build would be actually more effective than a build with pretty good social skills and hard power on its side.
 
As another point for HeartReader, it's better to pick cool stuff than it is to min-max or get the 'viable' stuff, since I think thats what the current argument is about. . ?
 
Just slightly different options and a few more FBs.
Would something like this work:

Antimask
-Unmask
--Ubsurp(5 potential): Increases rate of Unmask. Should you fully Unmask Individual you can immediately integrate their Mask into Webweaver. If the Potential of target Mask is greater than half of Webweaver's Potential, reduce it to half. You can swap to any of other masks you posses, however you cannot access other powers of Webweaver for duration of this effect. Integrated Masks cannot gain Facetime
-Unseen(FB): Double Antimask effect against scrying and detection effects. Remove penalty for unseen effects against scrying and detection effects.
Reflection
-Redirect(5 potential): Requires 10 Potential in Antimask and Puppeteer. When targeted by a spell effect, instead redirect it to a valid target nearby instead
-Heart-Reader(FB)
Master Shaper
-Faceless(3 potential): Freely conceal or change shape of Webweaver Mask
-Mighty(10 potential, FB): Requires Reflection. Copy physical stats as per Reflection, with similar restrictions to Reflection spell copying
Puppeteer
-Strings(5 potential): Gain long range ability to detect general emotional state and then influence those who are under your sway
--That Bind(FB): Gain ability to copy powers of those under your sway as per Reflection. Draining to use. Doesn't function across Street worlds.

As another point for HeartReader, it's better to pick cool stuff than it is to min-max or get the 'viable' stuff, since I think thats what the current argument is about. . ?
Thing is, historically over multiple quests just saving for EFB was always a strictly superior choice(both in terms of power and coolness), unless not getting FB would literally kill you next update.
 
Interesting discord tidbit
(speaking of which, why aren't you guys there in #a-streetwalker's-guide-to-hierarchy yet?)

Join the Games in Silver Discord Server!

Check out the Games in Silver community on Discord - hang out with 207 other members and enjoy free voice and text chat.

Birdsie — Today
Hmm.
A face of the self...
Birdsie —
I'm not sure what that'd provide; my instinct and what I know of Drethir tells me it'd maybe allow for possession / sympathetic magics with other people who wore it? Let them access your own magics and skills? Orm and I are writing Excelsior later tonight so I'll ask about that.
R' —
so it sounds like self-regeneration is not a natural ability of this mask
Birdsie —
It probably could be if you specifically wore it.
R' —
(while being unharmed, presumably)
Birdsie —
It could act as a sort of Ring of Power deal, too, where it simply enhances everything you've got on you and are capable of doing.
Straight up power multiplier scaling with Potential.
R' —
anyway, if we're going to make the Visage of Dorian Croft
Birdsie —
You'd Fixate so fast, though, like holy fuck.
R' —
we should make it out of epic materials with every dorian gray reference on hand
Birdsie —
Fixation is human identity and mask identity coming together into one.
R' —
not have it be one of our secondary masks with chargen qualtiy materials
Birdsie —
When your mask identity and human identity are literally the same thing, I don't know if you wouldn't reach Final Fixation in like a few minutes or something.
Will make sure to ask Orm, though.
R' —
yeah, it'd be cool though. The Visage of Dorian Croft absorbing, reflecting and refracting all harms inflicted upon his body, to leave the flesh pristine and spirit... profaned?
 
Thing is, historically over multiple quests just saving for EFB was always a strictly superior choice(both in terms of power and coolness), unless not getting FB would literally kill you next update.
This feels like a slight exaggeration, but not by much to be fair. The only counterexample I can think of offhand was Argent's sword back in Immersion.

Whats and EFB & FB and why do we care about them?
EFB stands for "Even Further Beyond", and generally refers to the most powerful class of upgrades purchasable with meta-currency (in this quest that would be Import). They cost about 15 Import, and are superlinearly powerful compared to the cheaper "Further Beyond" upgrades, which are usually in the 5-10 range IIRC.
For example, Heart-Reader costs 5 Import, but we can reasonably expect any EFB we purchase to provide noticeably more than three times as much power as Heart-Reader, despite only costing three times as much.
 
This feels like a slight exaggeration, but not by much to be fair. The only counterexample I can think of offhand was Argent's sword back in Immersion.
You have overtuned FBs(famously Cut Fate) and weak EFBs, but all in all Heart Seeker doesn't seem like one that clears the bar, and our situation doesn't call for spending Import here, so we should save for EFB given how transformative they tend to be.
 
It's just a bit shocking that birdsie questors of all people wouldn't push for masks designed on their own with the write-in opened. Premade Masks even, without the associated crafting time and workshop and facetime required..

Lets brainstorm some other masks Dorian could have conceived off in Masked world..
Assassination, but with a more versatile spin. Another mask Dorian could have conceivably used along with the Metamask for his quest. Healing, but fleshed out with interesting mechanics..
 
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You have overtuned FBs(famously Cut Fate) and weak EFBs, but all in all Heart Seeker doesn't seem like one that clears the bar, and our situation doesn't call for spending Import here, so we should save for EFB given how transformative they tend to be.
In fairness isn't it possible that we could just further upgrade it into an efb? Like if this is mangekyo sharingan maybe we could later upgrade it to an eternal mangekyo sharingan. I think if we took that literally would be more retaining of stolen stuff mind you no idea if any of what I said has any basis but upgrading a magical sight stealing bullshit thing seems a pretty straightforward progression path we could take.
[X] Masker of Circumstance

I do hope the healing and inventor mask maybe get their own little write in and get edited later but if we get the default thats fine.
 
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It's just a bit shocking that birdsie questors of all people wouldn't push for masks designed on their own with the write-in opened. Premade Masks even, without the associated crafting time and workshop and facetime required..

Lets brainstorm some other masks Dorian could have conceived off in Masked world..
That's a good point! Personally I feel like your option covered an alternative to healing I'm happy with.
As for the Tinkering mask I feel like an alternative would require a good understanding of the magic system, which I sadly lack.
 
That's a good point! Personally I feel like your option covered an alternative to healing I'm happy with.
As for the Tinkering mask I feel like an alternative would require a good understanding of the magic system, which I sadly lack.
I think the self mask is just a bad decision simply cause it could cause final fixation in minutes. Its really fucking cool though and if it could heal us fully in half a minute well fuck I'd do switch it from the healing mask.
 
It's just a bit shocking that birdsie questors of all people wouldn't push for masks designed on their own with the write-in opened. Premade Masks even, without the associated crafting time and workshop and facetime required..

Lets brainstorm some other masks Dorian could have conceived off in Masked world..
Assassination, but with a more versatile spin. Another mask Dorian could have conceivably used along with the Metamask for his quest. Healing, but fleshed out with interesting mechanics..
Thing is, we can make just about anything later on, and stronger we get better stuff we can make. So starting stuff only matters in so far it gets us to the point where we can make better stuff, so there's not much point in overthinking it.
In fairness isn't it possible that we could just further upgrade it into an efb? Like if this is mangekyo sharingan maybe we could later upgrade it to an eternal mangekyo sharingan. I think if we took that literally would be more retaining of stolen stuff mind you no idea if any of what I said has any basis but upgrading a magical sight stealing bullshit thing seems a pretty straightforward progression path we could take.
Most FBs can be upgraded in EFB ot otherwise benefit from it. However FBs that can get directly upgraded into EFBs by paying difference in cost are super powerful because they let ignore usual downside of saving for EFB, which is to say the opportunity cost of not being able to utilize power that is tied into metaresource. But they are are rare and usually specify that.
 
I think the self mask is just a bad decision simply cause it could cause final fixation in minutes. Its really fucking cool though and if it could heal us fully in half a minute well fuck I'd do switch it from the healing mask.
That is merely a possible ultimate variant that was discussed. Nothing is set on stone.

Thing is, we can make just about anything later on, and stronger we get better stuff we can make. So starting stuff only matters in so far it gets us to the point where we can make better stuff, so there's not much point in overthinking it.
I think we might be gravely underestimating how much impact starting things have on a quest and our options with Dorian. The first few votes in questing as a general are pivotal. If there was ever a time to go all out in terms of player creativity, it is now.

@Tetra If you had ideas or particular direction I'd be happy to attempt to flesh them out regarding the Tinkering mask. And double check with the folks with better understanding of these things.
 
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Anyway, one thing to consider is that each point of Potential put into an option increases overall value. Putting 30 points into something doesn't seem like a lot, however consider the following:
High Facetime: Can send a main battle tank flying with a contemptuous slap, shrug off a sustained attack from a group of the same, and move fast enough that mortal eyes can barely track you. Armor is now a permanent feature while the mask is worn, although the agility and flexibility penalties are significantly reduced; can be overloaded instead to return the penalties, but gain near-invincibility and absurd skyscraper-crushing tyrannic strength. Can shroud an entire city in a veil of conceptual terror, dominating minds utterly and near-incurably. Moderately advanced umbramancy, including shadow constructs and servitor spirits. Increased risk of Fixation.
This is a 100 point mask that gives you super stats, super armor, terror power and umbramancy. Assuming equal split we are talking about 25 points per option, so you should really look to compare this 25 point terror power and 27 point version of Puppeteer. Now, those 25 points also benefit from total power of the 100 point mask and our total power is around 40, however we should still get reasonably impressive effect for focused investment.
I think we might be gravely underestimating how much impact starting things have on a quest and our options with Dorian. The first few votes in questing as a general are pivotal. If there was ever a time to go all out in terms of player creativity, it is now.
I really don't think it matters. Like you can do it and it will probably be increase of 1% somewhere, but it is not something I would find worthwhile.
 
I really don't think it matters. Like you can do it and it will probably be increase of 1% somewhere, but it is not something I would find worthwhile.

Lets look at the other quests.. and their first choices. Spoilers if you aren't caught up.

Scabbard, Dursley family dying from a player vote on an action and fundamentally changing Harry's character and motivation.

Immersion - second/third choice of vote was to travel to the edge of the world. Cue Koji touching chaos and fundamentally shaping his play through.

God diversion had us after settle on build votes subsequent rolls and roommate decison netting us Architecture through the Harrison interaction. And that wasn't game breaking at all.

This is the way things are, and probably will be moving forward. So I maintain we must effort post, whatever outcomes be.. make things interesting. Go Even Further Beyond, as always.
 
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This is a 100 point mask that gives you super stats, super armor, terror power and umbramancy. Assuming equal split we are talking about 25 points per option, so you should really look to compare this 25 point terror power and 27 point version of Puppeteer. Now, those 25 points also benefit from total power of the 100 point mask and our total power is around 40, however we should still get reasonably impressive effect for focused investment.
Worth keeping in mind that overall Potential also increases the power of a mask, on top of what's invested specifically.
 
Lets look at the other quests.. and their first choices. Spoilers if you aren't caught up.

Scabbard, Dursley family dying from a player vote on an action and fundamentally changing Harry's character and motivation.

Immersion - second/third choice of vote was to travel to the edge of the world. Cue Koji touching chaos and fundamentally shaping his play through.

God diversion had us after settle on build votes subsequent rolls and roommate decison netting us Architecture through the Harrison interaction. And that wasn't game breaking at all.

This is the way things are, and probably will be moving forward. So I maintain we must effort post, whatever outcomes be.. make things interesting. Go Even Further Beyond, as always.
Yes, important choices are important. Not all early choices, however, are necessarily important choices. That is what we call false equivalence.
Worth keeping in mind that overall Potential also increases the power of a mask, on top of what's invested specifically.
Yeah I've noted as much. Still the imbalanced point distribution should give reasonably powerful effects.
 
Yes, important choices are important. Not all early choices, however, are necessarily important choices. That is what we call false equivalence.

I understand where you're coming from but.. a Dorian with versatile capabilities could only benefit the quest starting. Present us with choices we might not otherwise have.

For instance a mask preserving the life of an important NPC that leads to Dorian learning a critical build piece that informs his approach for the rest of the quest. That's perfectly viable. It may not come to pass exactly this way, but better to have an ace up our hands than not you know?

It's not like more player engagement is a harmful thing in quests my guy. Even if we don't vote for the masks, interesting ideas and discussion contribute to metacurrency generation.
 
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(Discord info: Without a Tinkering Mask or other source of Facelessness, Masks themselves don't come into being)
To be clear, we can replicate Mask creation without the Tinkering mask, it would just be a slower process in some way. My current guess for why/how is facelessness is nearly-nonexistent but not totally, so we can keep trying until we manage a basic facelessness-projecting mask and then work our way up from there.
As for the Tinkering mask I feel like an alternative would require a good understanding of the magic system, which I sadly lack.
Proposal: Instead of a mask that modifies masks in the field, a mask that invisibly projects Facelessness at the target/area, capable of ramping up, maybe through sustained exposure, to enough power to affect them through most weak masks. It could be the mask we were going to use in order to do the assassination itself, while also just so happening to let us skip replicating the metaphysical conditions of Drethir (and, if designed correctly, make realizing-higher-Facelessness-boosts-mask-creation inevitable).
(Note: iirc such Masks are extremely very illegal back on Drethir. But we were being illegal, so that's not that much of a stretch)
 
[X] Masker of Circumstance
-Distribute Potential in the following manner: Antimask 5, Reflection 15, Heart-Reader 5, Shaper 4 (Sight, Hearing), Puppeteer 11
-[X] Healing
-[X] Tinkering
 
To be clear, we can replicate Mask creation without the Tinkering mask, it would just be a slower process in some way. My current guess for why/how is facelessness is nearly-nonexistent but not totally, so we can keep trying until we manage a basic facelessness-projecting mask and then work our way up from there.

Proposal: Instead of a mask that modifies masks in the field, a mask that invisibly projects Facelessness at the target/area, capable of ramping up, maybe through sustained exposure, to enough power to affect them through most weak masks. It could be the mask we were going to use in order to do the assassination itself, while also just so happening to let us skip replicating the metaphysical conditions of Drethir (and, if designed correctly, make realizing-higher-Facelessness-boosts-mask-creation inevitable).
(Note: iirc such Masks are extremely very illegal back on Drethir. But we were being illegal, so that's not that much of a stretch)

This is absolutely genius. Propagating facelessness is one of the obstacles in scaling Masks. Do you mind making it a vote and/or confirming things with Birdsie?

These two masks are coming from the Masked world themselves so it makes sense to try things unique to Masked world. We would not be able to get the quality of Facelessness in any other world-based Mask.
 
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And I Would Have Gotten Away With It Too, If It Weren't For That Meddling Kid!
In many ways, you mused, Dorian Craft was an absolute buffoon.

With the crystal-clear insight of your Final Fixation, you could dissect the actions and thoughts of the man you once were, unearthing the pitfalls and self-delusions you once peddled. Your revenge was your right, yet your disdain for the Duke's methods was nothing more than an offshoot of your own insecurities and a desperate need for self-justification. The man still needed to meet his end, naturally, but you no longer needed to cloak your intent in a shroud of morality. The path you tread was one of your own choosing, and therefore, it was inherently right. Your resolve was unwavering and by your might, it would be done.

Examining your reflection in the mirror, the Glass Webweaver and the mirror engaged in a ceaseless dance of reflection. You observed the dazzling kaleidoscope generated by your Mask for a fleeting moment before shifting its guise to that of the Noblesse Oblige. Your true mask was a reflective mirror that concealed the entire essence of this world within, a magnum opus from one of the world's most esteemed artisans - yourself. It unveiled the truth of all things, allowing you to manipulate both the destinies of men and the currents of magic with nary a thought. The Noblesse Oblige, in comparison, was nothing more than drab gold, exuding an aura of respect and facilitating the management of your estate with skill and dignity, a dull mask fitting for dull people. There was a twinge of regret you've never felt before your Final Fixation, the idea of concealing your true face behind something so ordinary was now mildly repugnant.

The Final Fixation of a mask was both an intriguing and dangerous process. Once completed, the Mask would meld with one's face, becoming their true self. This physical connection paled in comparison to the mental unity between the mask and its wearer. It demanded the wearer to forsake any other mask, a hefty price to pay for such power. The Glass Webweaver was the fruit of years of relentless experimentation and research; you had stolen, cheated, and even killed to acquire everything needed to create a Mask capable of achieving the Final Fixation while skirting its drawbacks. Striding down the corridors with your pretender Mask, the servants shuffled by, oblivious to the monster you had become. A mere glance allowed you to sense the power of their Masks, and while you would never truly don any other Mask, the Webweaver could easily mimic their powers.

What a power. You could perceive the truth of those around you, their little desires, dreams, and secrets, the strings that allowed you to make them dance to your tune. Simplistic creatures. With a mere thought, you could assume the guise of a lowly servant and blend in without arousing suspicion, or you could extinguish their powers at will. For years, you had worked for such power, and now you finally had it. You could feel it pulsing through your veins, a symphony of potential and might. You were magnificent, a colossus on par with the Grand Champion, the True King, or the Dream's End.

"Lord Dorian!" a voice called from behind you, "Your masks!" Sebastian hurried towards you, panting, a golden box in his hand. A mask of black and grey respectfully lowered as he presented you with two masks. True Grit was nothing more than a crude slab of black and grey, its rough, matte textures a reminder of the harsh realities of survival. It held a mundane sort of power, a steady pulse that was as dull and predictable as a drumbeat against Dorian's skin. The Eagle's Flight, a work of feather-light silver, was something many journeyman would craft as their first work. Crafted to resemble a bird mid-flight, its power was like the wind rushing past on a swift descent. It was a mask for those who would rather run than face their problems.

You dismissed them with an indulgent smile; while refusing to carry the masks of healing and escape that nobles usually wore might seem foolhardy at first glance, word of this would reach the Duke and he would interpret it as a sign of respect. The man had a penchant for such gestures. In reality, you had no need for such precautions. The feeble-minded would label you arrogant; the ignorant would accuse you of hubris. Yet your confidence was entirely justified - you would attend the Duke's soiree and assassinate him. You had prepared for every eventuality and had a solution for every potential problem. You only had need for one mask.

You were invincible. You would succeed.



Impossible! How could this have transpired?

You seethed as you plunged into the inky waters. You were supposed to win! Victory should have been yours! Your strategy was immaculate. You had infiltrated the party, spending the evening subtly manipulating the Duke's guards, his staff, and almost all the other influential guests. With sugared words and hidden smiles, you spun a web of intrigue that ensnared those around you, reducing them to mere pawns. You chose to impersonate the Duke's son - what a delightful twist, the prodigal son returning. But this would make your revenge all the more satisfying, not only would you murder the Duke, but you'd do so publicly while wearing his son's guise. The man would perish with a heart as shattered as his body, and the son's reputation would be similarly ruined. A fitting conclusion to this pitiful tale.

SO WHY DID THE BOY ACTUALLY SHOW UP? Just as you prepared to deliver the final blow, the grand doors of the hall swung open and the Duke's son strolled in, wearing the Grand Champion no less! Instantly, the boy deduced the situation, thanks to the transcendent combat instincts provided by the mask of white and gold. The boy attacked, saving his father. A melee ensued; you commanded your thralls to eliminate the few individuals outside your control, as the most powerful of your pawns attacked the boy. However, the power of the Grand Champion surpassed your own, and the boy fended off the assaults as he advanced towards you.

You fought, empowered by powers of those around you - you slayed Sir Barton and Lady Careline, although not before the latter had scorched your left arm. The Duke's loyal retainer managed to land a blow on your back before your pawns took him down. The Duke himself escaped as his son advanced towards you, the Challenge of his mask forcing you to stand your ground. With a mighty leap, he reached you, his grand slash easily penetrating your enhanced defenses and nearly gutting you on the spot. You dove into your own power, redirecting his challenge to others and fleeing the scene, now lost, clutching your bleeding stomach with your unscathed hand. You assumed the guise of a servant while retreating, eluding your pursuers amidst the chaos, the Glass Webweaver warding off the Champion's attempts to locate its quary. Eventually, you reached the keep's wall, from where you jumped into the trench below.

As you sank into the dark water, you found a bitter irony in life. Your quest for revenge began with the Duke disposing of your father and sister in a ditch. And now, despite your genius and power, you too ended up in a trench.

Thoughts dark as water around you abruptly ceased as a cerulean glow illuminated the surrounding water. Except it was not water you found yourself in, but rather air. You had been transported onto a street paved with luminescent cobblestones. The name surfaced in your mind as naturally as breathing - the Street Where the Stones Speak. The soft hum of the stones filled your ears, their glow reflected in your Mask, yet even Glass Webweaver couldn't grasp its true depths. It was as if you were a beast gazing at the stars, forever barred from reaching them. There was power here, a force that transcended all you had known or thought possible.

You grasped the reality of your situation - your defeat was absolute, yet fate had granted you another opportunity. Here, on this street that stretched beyond the horizon, you could venture forth indefinitely. You would discover other realms and partake in their affairs, only to be summoned back by the Street. But your vengeance would remain unfulfilled. The Duke would survive, and your humiliation would be remembered. While some might argue that living your best life is the ultimate revenge, you knew such notions were the refuge of the impotent. Gritting your teeth, you internalized this loss, vowing to never forget this day's failure. Then, you directed your gaze forward. Leaving behind a trail of blood, you trudged onwards, in search of aid.

Thus began the journey of Dorian Craft, down the Street Where the Stones Speak.


Final Fixation build:
Antimask: 25
Reflection: 35
Master-Shaper: 13
Pupeteer: 27
 
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