Shards of a Broken Sun [Megaten/Shugo Chara/Exalted]

I already know precisely what I'll do. It'll be fun.
I don't have enough nope for this, so (hopefully Pistachio is available soon so we can hash out something else together):

[X] Ask Kana what is going on
-[X] Ask Kana if she can show Amu who "she" is by using her mind powers to link with Amu.
-[X] Share what is mentioned with Utau, and have Utau decide what should be shared with Naoto, using words or using visual projection as appropriate
[X] Defend Kana
-[X] From... herself? From both herselves?
-[X] Amu: Whatever this place has done to her, this is still your friend. And with all the time you've spend tangled up in her thoughts, you may be the worlds greatest expert on Nanami Kana. Try to help her come to terms with herself, preferably without a fight. If that fails, at least try to keep them from killing each other.
 
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On another note, now that Amu has made some progress on putting soul matter back in to people so they can become more whole again. It does to an extent raise the question on what is the best way of handling this shadow. Though I guess it depends on who ever is following and how open to such ideas they might be...

Well things to ponder I guess...
 
It does to an extent raise the question on what is the best way of handling this shadow.
Don't fix what ain't broken is my first thought: If you can reconnect things by having Kana accept her Shadow after a fight, why not just do that instead of futzing with things you don't understand manually?

(Since it's not like we have spare Kana mind shards lying around, and disassembling this Shadow for parts is extremely questionable and about just as likely to work?)
 
Don't fix what ain't broken is my first thought: If you can reconnect things by having Kana accept her Shadow after a fight, why not just do that instead of futzing with things you don't understand manually?

(Since it's not like we have spare Kana mind shards lying around, and disassembling this Shadow for parts is extremely questionable and about just as likely to work?)
Yeah, you're right on that. It just came to mind as we don't know what we're exactly facing here. So it's something one could perhaps try in case something bad occurs.
 
Though I guess it depends on who ever is following and how open to such ideas they might be...

Well things to ponder I guess...
We basically got that answer from the QM's comments on what would happen with the current vote - the person following is "Kana", which is why asking who the pursuer is, is going to result in her spilling Kana's inner weaknesses.

Though if take what the Shadow said at face value, the Kana that is about to come after them is going to be angry immediately anyway, regardless of any secret-spilling.

Why exactly she would be angry without prompting is a good question. The reason I thought "normal Kana" was unlikely to be the pursuer was because "normal Kana" is generally pretty friendly and reasonable- and then the QM gave this cagey response about Kana's normal persona, in regards to it:
Not a direct reply:

A Shadow represents the parts of yourself that you reject, but they still exist. Fully rejecting it, and making that stick, would turn you into a caricature of yourself.

This could also be compared to the effect of boosting a virtue up to five dots, then hitting limit break. Inverted, in a way, but it's the same concept—take just one side of yourself, present it in its "perfect" form and ignore all else.

Amu likes the confident, outgoing side of Kana that wasn't broken down by reality… but she likes it because of what's inside, not despite.
I don't know exactly what to make of that, but it was one of the meta things (the idea that Kana has rejected a certain part of herself to an extreme extent) that made me elevate the Yui-is-Kana's-Split-Personality theory a little bit. Along with the QM previously also giving a suspicious "no comment" during last vote when I concluded the stunt wouldn't result in a room with Yui in it.

But that theory aside, my best guess as to why "normal Kana" would immediately be mad is because this cognitive-space intrusion might be reminiscent of her experiences at Manticore, causing her to elicit the same kind of extreme temper response she had for the man whose mind she crushed on a whim. Or even worse, betrayal at the thought of someone she trusted digging around in her cognitive space (the person this time being Amu, it might have been her trusted doctor before).

We might be able to defuse it if Amu can use her Empathy to broadcast the exact reason why she came in (worry at her not responding to calls).

But that's only if that guess is right. Conditioned/brainwashed by Manticore or driven insane by the fog are still on the table, in which case she might be too unreasonable and unreceptive for it to work without first exhausting her, like one would normally do to a bulked-up Shadow in Persona 4.
I don't have enough nope for this, so (hopefully Pistachio is available soon so we can hash out something else together):
I would suggest having Amu telepathically share the information with Utau and then just having Utau do the projection, if you want her to be a "filter" for things conveyed to Naoto.

Though given Utau's reactions to her Ragged Crossroads visions, I do wonder if Utau would have the stomach for that task and/or whether she might end up redacting 90%+ of the whole thing.

(Also, Amu apparently wants to look cool and delegating the task to Utau makes her look less cool.)
 
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Like this? Done, thanks for the suggestion. You mind editing your own vote accordingly too?


-[] Ask Kana if she can show Amu who "she" is by using her mind powers to link with Amu.
-[] Share what is mentioned with Utau, and have Utau decide what should be shared with Naoto through visual projection.

she might end up redacting 90%+ of the whole thing
I trust Utau's judgement on these matters more than I do, to reveal what is necessary and keep what isn't secret; or to be oblique about certain matters if really needed.

Also, Amu apparently wants to look cool and delegating the task to Utau makes her look less cool.
Well, Amu is already key to this operation given how she's the only one who knows Yui - would rather not damage her relationship with Kana, nor risk making things harder than necessary for no good reason?
 
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Right, can just leave the choice between words or Illusion to Utau; have edited my last vote accordingly.
(Iirc the reasoning for visual projection was Dark/Light Immunity + higher bandwidth because we still need to convince Naoto, so can't drop it entirely)
 
Convince her of what? I don't see how learning and facts about Kana is going to change her assumption that fighting Shadows is always the right way to go.
 
Convince her of what? I don't see how learning and facts about Kana is going to change her assumption that fighting Shadows is always the right way to go.
Depends on what gets shown.

Let's say my theory about Kana being mad due to it reminding her of Manticore's experiments is correct. If we find out that this is, in fact, not the first time that Kana has been dragged into a cognitive space, but that it's happened during the Manticore experiments and that Kana has been trained/brainwashed to brutalize her own Shadow regularly (i.e. we see them fighting and it's horribly one-sided in "normal Kana"'s favor), Naoto would probably be convinced by that footage that her Shadow is incapable of protecting itself.

Combined with the ruined state of the cognitive domain, she might conclude that it's actually the "normal" Kana that is responsible for the damage and that she is liable to end up killing her own Shadow if goes too far.

Granted, despite the Shadow's timid nature, there's no guarantee this is actually the case. It could be the Shadow can bulk up as normal and defend itself against her pursuer just fine and that Naoto is completely correct about her default assumptions.

In this case, the issue is going to be needing to persuade the normal Kana to accept the Shadow after subduing it and not have things end up like Mitsuo Kubo rejecting his and having it disappear after the fight. Naoto won't be able to help with that if she doesn't know the reasons behind the rejection.
 
Basically, the idea is to try and have our cake and eat it too with respect to our actual mission objectives, since I am allergic to only doing one thing at one time and to wasting time waiting :V

(More information can't hurt if we need to figure out what Kana is likely to do or how to talk her down, and by all indications Naoto does not need help in punching the shadow out of Kana's Shadow in the first place anyway.
This convincing would be infinitely easier if we know IC of Amu's base self being a Shadow, but...)
 
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Personally, I see asking the Shadow for info as a way of compensating for all the information we didn't get to see as a result of completely bypassing the whole dungeon. That we would otherwise have gotten by trekking through it the normal way.

I feel at least Amu ought to know the nitty gritty, as it is likely going to come down to her doing most of the persuasion for reconciling normal Kana with her Shadow, she's the one with the best chance of persuading them to accept each other. Utau also seemingly had some sort of rapport going with Kana from their stand-off at birthday party and has the bonus of being someone who was also subject to human experimentation who can commiserate.

The only individual I feel might be questionable giving those details to is Naoto.

I guess if you want to try using Utau as a filter, we can do that. Admittedly, I do worry a little that asking Utau for it would necessitate that Amu's own judgment getting questioned in-story (either by herself or Utau) leading to issues with Amu's self-confidence, though I guess it's a minor concern all things considered. There are ways she could end up asking Utau for help that don't lead to that.

[X] Ask Kana what is going on
-[X] Ask Kana if she can show Amu who "she" is by using her mind powers to link with Amu.
-[X] Share what is mentioned with Utau, and have Utau decide what should be shared with Naoto, using words or using visual projection as appropriate
[X] Defend Kana
-[X] From... herself? From both herselves?
-[X] Amu: Whatever this place has done to her, this is still your friend. And with all the time you've spend tangled up in her thoughts, you may be the worlds greatest expert on Nanami Kana. Try to help her come to terms with herself, preferably without a fight. If that fails, at least try to keep them from killing each other.
 
Amu's own judgment getting questioned (either by herself or Utau) leading to issues with Amu's self-confidence
Midori: Here, have some lessons about the filter criteria Utau was using (Narrative Socialise + Common Sense) so next time you can weigh it yourself as well?

Context matters, so that doesn't mean you can't continue with your other friends as you were previously though, just that what is ok with your friends isn't always ok with your other friends.

I'd expect a conversation along those lines if that actually becomes an minor issue later on?
 
Let's be honest though, if it weren't for that fact that they were imminently being faced with needing to persuade Shadow Kana and non-Shadow Kana to accept each other, even Amu and Utau by rights shouldn't be privy to all of Kana's deepest darkest secrets.

Amu may have 0 dots in Socialize, but even she knew not to go crawling around the parts of Kana's mind that Kana kept blocked off from her whenever they did their telepathy.

Those lessons would probably teach Amu that if Kana let her know all that in confidence*, she shouldn't be sharing it with anyone at all. Filtered or not. Not even Utau, much less someone she literally just met 15 minutes ago like Naoto.

* And this isn't even really Kana letting her know in confidence, that's her Shadow, Shadows are typically unable to lie so it would be like the equivalent of Amu asking Kana for her secrets while drunk. Midori would probably teach her the polite thing is to try not to do that too.
 
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Amu and Utau by rights shouldn't be privy to all of Kana's deepest darkest secrets.
Indeed. Protagonism Ho! :V
all the information we didn't get to see as a result of completely bypassing the whole dungeon
True.
With the amount of on-screen information we know I think we have a decent chance at helping with a hypothetical Utau Shadow as-is, but right now for Kana unless we get more information of some kind from her Shadow, the only option I expect I can realistically vote for if "wat say now" comes up at the end of next chapter is just leaving it to Amu-pilot?
 
With the amount of on-screen information we know I think we have a decent chance at helping with a hypothetical Utau Shadow as-is, but right now for Kana unless we get more information of some kind from her Shadow, the only option I expect I can realistically vote for if "wat say now" comes up at the end of next chapter is just leaving it to Amu-pilot?
The way I see it, completely depends on what this pursuing Kana is going to be so angry about.

If she's mad at Amu and co. for intruding, this can be solved easily just through Amu proving via mental link and Empathy that they came into the Scavengers' House out of genuine worry and concern for Kana and that there is no betrayal involved.

If it is something else, like normal Kana having been conditioned by Manticore into going apeshit every time she ends up in a cognitive space, it might require Heart Beams or something more heavy-duty.

If the Yui = Kana's Shadow theory is correct, things get especially messy as Normal Kana will probably want to keep insisting that her Shadow is not actually her Shadow, but her little sister Yui. And be mad at Yui taking on her appearance. And then try to convince Amu that Yui is having a delusional episode and needs to stop pretending to be Kana.

I admittedly have no idea what to do in that scenario.
 
so it would be like the equivalent of Amu asking Kana for her secrets while drunk
If she's mad at Amu and co. for intruding
Oh wow, this just keeps getting worse and worse OOC (though I think we still have a valid reason to need to know, and I did not see this coming at the start lol).
IC it's not like Amu knows her Shadow will be so ...thorough in the response to her question, and does not fully understand the implications of a Shadow (normally) being the rejected parts of a person so it should be fine?

Additional silver lining is that she may eventually be able to figure out from this in the post-mission debrief that unattended Shadows in the Dreamlands/CU can be easily* abused by more malicious actors (Heart Beam style, or interrogation, or simply reverse extrapolation by interacting with them at all)?

* Relatively speaking, and this may not be so for a Psionic's Shadow given the whole Overgrowth business.



Opening the Conspiracy Theories Box, what if this scenario was intentional with Naoto and co bunkering down somewhere else to wait for Kana to resolve it, and then we accidentally stuck our foot in because of poor communication? :p

More seriously: Supposed regular Kana has overdosed on Fog as a emotional and/or power amplifier and yet refuses to leave because of Yui - what do we do then? Can't exactly Mind Control someone who is plain better than you back into normality, can we?
curtain of pain in the air in front of them so thick it could have been cut with a knife, cutting through the fog in the exact same way that-
Empathy overblast courtesy of Utau perhaps?

if you can find the time, I'd like to sit down and interview you about... everything.
There goes what little free time we have left, we have enough Free Time options competing for our attention already :cry:
 
Opening the Conspiracy Theories Box, what if this scenario was intentional with Naoto and co bunkering down somewhere else to wait for Kana to resolve it, and then we accidentally stuck our foot in because of poor communication? :p
The rest of the Scavengers?

I won't call it impossible, but we also got told the Scavengers don't really have any other safe houses and Naomi, controlling as she is, does not seem like the kind of individual who would hide in a tent while Kana or Yui in trouble. She was there fighting alongside Akane in the memory of them forcing their way past the "dark figures" to Yui. I feel she'd be more inclined to fight.

I actually think the simplest explanation for their absence is..... they're just late coming back.

They planned to take only 1 week, but their job ran into trouble and they had to take another 2 weeks to get it done. Maybe they've even just pulled up outside their driveway to find the lock to their house broken and Midori and Ami on the phone outside.
More seriously: Supposed regular Kana has overdosed on Fog as a emotional and/or power amplifier and yet refuses to leave because of Yui - what do we do then? Can't exactly Mind Control someone who is plain better than you back into normality, can we?
That's perfectly fine. Naoto is here.

Amu and Utau would probably have their hands full dealing Kana's mental assault, I imagine they'd be on the defensive the whole time.

Naoto, meanwhile, will be free to beat her up the old fashioned way.
 
Vote closed
Scheduled vote count started by Baughn on Mar 25, 2024 at 7:29 PM, finished with 160 posts and 4 votes.

  • [X] Defend Kana
    -[X] From... herself? From both herselves?
    -[X] Amu: Whatever this place has done to her, this is still your friend. And with all the time you've spend tangled up in her thoughts, you may be the worlds greatest expert on Nanami Kana. Try to help her come to terms with herself, preferably without a fight. If that fails, at least try to keep them from killing each other.
    [X] Ask Kana what is going on
    -[X] Ask Kana if she can show Amu who "she" is by using her mind powers to link with Amu.
    -[X] Share what is mentioned with Utau, and have Utau decide what should be shared with Naoto, using words or using visual projection as appropriate
    [X] Defend Kana
    -[X] From... herself? From both herselves?
    -[X] Amu: Whatever this place has done to her, this is still your friend. And with all the time you've spend tangled up in her thoughts, you may be the worlds greatest expert on Nanami Kana. Try to help her come to terms with herself, preferably without a fight. If that fails, at least try to keep them from killing each other.
 
I think it'll be fine? There's more than enough discussion for me to discern the intent.

Originally I was planning to have you go through these bizarre symbolic locations… but there's value in speeding this up, as well. So instead problems can be solved by talking.

…what has the world come to.
 
I think it means that the Shadow is highly incoherent, but now that there's Utau to translate (with Lightsmithing or something, perhaps) it can actually make more sense than what Amu would have conveyed on her own.
 
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