Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Veiling ritual should be able to hide them.
There is no evidence of that.

Winter Knight Dresden's veil's explicitly did not hide him and his car from the basic radar gun of a cop car in Peace Talks.
Winter Lady Molly might have been able to, but that was Winter Lady Molly.

I would not gamble anything on operating in the airspace of civilian and military radar systems orders of magnitude more powerful than a handheld.
Not without exhaustive prior testing or Exalted bullshit.

Not to mention that being radar-invisible in the same airspace as hundreds of passenger planes is at best unwise unless you have the sensor capacity to see and dodge everything.


And bunker busters can penetrate caves.
.......
These are concrete city utility and flood tunnels. Under the city. Not caves.
Seriously, you are forgetting that this is a metro area of almost 3 million people
And you are treating it like its an isolated battlefield in the middle of bumfuck nowhere.

Would Michael's daughter intentionally get in a fight in a civilian area?
Use large-yield weapons in a civilian area? Deal with the political and supernatural aftermath of doing so?
Would Dresden agree to do so?

Not to mention that you havent looked up what you need to hit a target deep underground.
The 2000 pound BLU-109 bunker buster can penetrate only 6 feet of reinforced concrete
 
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In hindsight even if we didn't use our potential drones maybe we should have tried to use Uncle Sam's.

I don't know exactly the Library would do if we explained the stakes (outside of the exaltation, because they don't need that temptation) but the US spends a lot of money on being able to deliver great quantities of violence in a bewildering variety of forms. They'd find something. Probably never leave the city again after learning the significance of the place, but still.

Incidentally, I think this would also essentially destroy Mexico as well, and it'd be messy death for both of us. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended with a significant number of people outside of the blast radius getting dragged down with us at the end.
You are vastly overestimating the fidelity of 2007-era military sensors in an urban area.
Sandra is in the hundreds of miles of utility and flood tunnels under the city of Las Vegas that were built to handle flood waters.
Aint seeing shit.

At the risk of alluding to RL shit I'd rather avoid, see how difficult it actually is to determine the extent and contents of the tunnel networks in the Gaza Strip and in Lebanon from overhead coverage.
 
I want to point out that Uju wants us to spend more than two hours in our hell unable to know about what Sandra is doing.

That's a losing proposition when we just kicked the ants nest if I ever saw one, just begging for mass casualties that she can use to emotionally hit us with when we come back from hiding like a coward (because that's what she will call it, and frankly, that's how I see it too).

And we can't expect to wait outside of our hell and not be attacked in a way that will lead to us spending even more essence.

We already saw what letting the enemy work in impunity leads to when doing so with the Akuma bit us in the ass, let's not have a repeat performance.
 
I want to point out that Uju wants us to spend more than two hours in our hell unable to know about what Sandra is doing.
This is NOT true.

EDIT
--[] Regenerate Essence: 2 hours. 30 minutes -1 hour in Brass Courts briefing strike team, others borrowing
30 minutes - 1 hour briefing the strike teams.
Thats all.

The rest we spend regenerating Essence on Earth.
 
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*Raise eyebrow*:
--[X] Regenerate Essence: 2 hours. 30 minutes -1 hour in Brass Courts briefing strike team, others borrowing

Except that's exactly what this is?

Edit:

The rest we spend regenerating Essence on Earth.

We'll never manage to regenerate essence on earth after the stunt we pulled.

Waiting will not lead to more essence, it will lead to less, guaranteed.

And 30 minutes out of reach is not any better given how bad the situation is anyway.
 
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We'll never manage to regenerate essence on earth after the stunt we pulled.

Waiting will not lead to more essence, it will lead to less, guaranteed.
This is NOT true.
Bleach bottle is still 1m/15 minutes. By nightfall, we regenerate 8m of Essence.

I cannot imagine you honestly believe Molly is going to assault a fortified positions while on half Essence.

EDIT
Just to be clear:
We do not go into the tunnels before nightfall, as thats when our Reds can come out to play.
Thats a hard number for every plan being voted on here.
And 30 minutes out of reach is not any better given how bad the situation is anyway.
Every plan is going to do that anyway. Every. Plan.
Because those troops we need to use need briefing about where they are going to fight.
Just like we spent 15-30 minutes briefing the Einherjar before assaulting the Will of Kakuri and his akuma.


EDIT
Furthermore, Lydia, who is our second frontliner, is down to 3/7 Essence. She doesnt regenerate Essence like we do.
If she burns all her Essence over at the University, she has fuckall to use in the tunnels.
 
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There is no evidence of that.

Winter Knight Dresden's veil's explicitly did not hide him and his car from the basic radar gun of a cop car in Peace Talks.
Winter Lady Molly might have been able to, but that was Winter Lady Molly.
I mean its just radar, if you can do invisibility it shouldn't be that difficult to do radar invisibility.

Harry is stupid and i don't ascribe his limits to us.
I would not gamble anything on operating in the airspace of civilian and military radar systems orders of magnitude more powerful than a handheld.
Not without exhaustive prior testing or Exalted bullshit
Its not that big a deal
We learned last year that there are literally 1000s of UFO sightings in the US. One more won't be a big deal. And we have the library guys to smooth over stuff if need be.
Not to mention that being radar-invisible in the same airspace as hundreds of passenger planes is at best unwise unless you have the sensor capacity to see and dodge everything
Airplanes aren't flying over the strip. There is no risk of anything.
These are concrete city utility and flood tunnels. Under the city. Not caves.
Seriously, you are forgetting that this is a metro area of almost 3 million people
And you are treating it like its an isolated battlefield in the middle of bumfuck nowhere.
Smart bombs can hit a moving car from 10000 feet. It's not a big deal to hit a particular tunnel. I doubt her ritual site is under some random home or something.
Would Michael's daughter intentionally get in a fight in a civilian area?
Use large-yield weapons in a civilian area? Deal with the political and supernatural aftermath of doing so?
Would Dresden agree to do so?
If the alternative is the death of the entire country, yeah pretty easily even.
Not to mention that you havent looked up what you need to hit a target deep underground.
The 2000 pound BLU-109 bunker buster can penetrate only 6 feet of reinforced concrete
Sewers and storm drains aren't reinforced concrete.
 
I mean its just radar, if you can do invisibility it shouldn't be that difficult to do radar invisibility.

Harry is stupid and i don't ascribe his limits to us.
Apparently its nowhere as easy as you apparently think
If the Winter Knight cant do it after six to ten months of rehab and training by Mab herself?
Its presumably not something anyone can just do.

Harry is NOT stupid. Especially not about magic.
And Molly's minions do not have Molly's capabilities.
Its not that big a deal
We learned last year that there are literally 1000s of UFO sightings in the US. One more won't be a big deal. And we have the library guys to smooth over stuff if need be.
It really is that big a deal.
The USAF does not fuck around, and this is post 9/11 America.
I dont see how you are seriously asserting they will ignore unknown aerial contacts over a US city.

Airplanes aren't flying over the strip. There is no risk of anything.
That is not true.
One: aircraft overfly the Strip. You can literally find private aviation companies that offer it for money.
For example:

And if you look at where Harry Reid International Airport is right next to the Strip on a map, you'll see where the flight paths cross over Vegas.

Two: There are hundreds of miles of tunnels in question. And we dont currently know where Sandra is in relation to the topside

She could literally be under the airport. Or one of several hospitals. Or a natural gas pumping station.
She had time to pick her preferred location
Unless she has to be in a particular location for the ritual, she could be anywhere in the tunnel system.

Smart bombs can hit a moving car from 10000 feet. It's not a big deal to hit a particular tunnel. I doubt her ritual site is under some random home or something.
That is not true.
This is 2007, not 2024.
Military technology advances a long way in those 17 years.

You are indulging in an uncomfortable degree of military overestimation for the setting.
If the alternative is the death of the entire country, yeah pretty easily even.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of who Molly Carpenter is, then.
She is not Taylor Hebert.
Or Mab.

Sewers and storm drains aren't reinforced concrete.
A lot of them are.
And furthermore, they are buffered by additional multiple feet of topside earth.

Lastly, we dont know where the fuck she is right now.
Literally hundreds of miles of tunnels.
Which is why we're saving a Crown question for this when we reach a tunnel entrance.
 
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Apparently its nowhere as easy as you apparently think
If the Winter Knight cant do it after six to ten months of rehab and training by Mab herself?
Its presumably not something anyone can just do.
Harry has always been bad at veils. His inability to do it is not a good argument.
It really is that big a deal.
The USAF does not fuck around, and this is post 9/11 America.
I dont see how you are seriously asserting they will ignore unknown aerial contacts over a US city.
They do tho, it was literally shown in those UFO record leaks. There are literally thousands of unknown radar contacts every year, the USAF doesn't do shit.

And they aren't going to seem them due to magic as previously stated. If a massive ritual can manipulate basically all probability in an area the size of a city. It can hide a few planes. This hardly where magic is going to fail compared whatever else it can do.
She could literally be under the airport. Or one of several hospitals. Or a natural gas pumping station.
She had time to pick her preferred location
Unless she has to be in a particular location for the ritual, she could be anywhere in the tunnel system.
That is why we will be going there to investigate them, they are support not the main thing.
That is not true.
This is 2007, not 2024.
Military technology advances a long way in those 17 years.

You are indulging in an uncomfortable degree of military overestimation for the setting.
Smart bombs have been in use well before this point, see desert storm.

and
We are using future tech from our cities, it should be better than this years tech.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of who Molly Carpenter is, then.
She is not Taylor Hebert.
Or Mab
I mean i have literally seen her do way more dubious shit in this story, like all the time we let red vampires go away despite knowing they will hurt more people, or the skinwalker. She can make difficult decisions if need be.
A lot of them are.
And furthermore, they are buffered by additional multiple feet of topside earth.
They aren't, this is patently false. What city is spending money making their sewers in bunkers.

And bunkers are also underground, again also see desert storm.

You are underestimating how effective military tech is.
 
You are vastly overestimating the fidelity of 2007-era military sensors in an urban area.
Sandra is in the hundreds of miles of utility and flood tunnels under the city of Las Vegas that were built to handle flood waters.
Aint seeing shit.

At the risk of alluding to RL shit I'd rather avoid, see how difficult it actually is to determine the extent and contents of the tunnel networks in the Gaza Strip and in Lebanon from overhead coverage.
I was thinking about drones for the minions, not the tunnels. My concern with that doesn't start with the targeting, but with the side effects.

Even if you have magically perfect targeting with no initial if you blow up stuff underneath buildings hard enough they're going to have issues. Anything worth call a bunker buster could do as "little" as set up a gas main secondary to as much as toppling one office building into another depending on how unlucky it is.

However, the Library has some sort of supernatural ready agents. Von Trier alone is a god damned three hundred year old time mage. For reference, McCoy's about that age. Magical talent and access to lore varies, but it's reasonably likely she's a senior council tier wizard* who's managed to dig deep into the time sphere without going mad.

That's scary as hell; Holt's bag of tricks was peanuts by comparison. If she's only as good as Dresden is at his best sphere despite centuries of experience and significantly more mundane resources she's still in the zip code of some really awful stuff.

* In potential at least, she might have some cruel limits to her actual power from a lack of lore to draw on. Mundane money is great, but only goes so far.
 
This is NOT true.
Bleach bottle is still 1m/15 minutes. By nightfall, we regenerate 8m of Essence.

I cannot imagine you honestly believe Molly is going to assault a fortified positions while on half Essence.

I cannot imagine you believe we'll have time before night fall where we won't be forced to use more motes, not after we kicked the nest, not after we are explicitly expecting to be attacked right now.

We .will be at half essence or less no matter what, that's what I see coming, so waiting serves nothing.

Thats a hard number for every plan being voted on here.

No, it isn't, last vote made it quite clear not everyone wanted to wait for the Rampires.

And we should not wait, when you put your enemy on the ground, you don't politely wait for them to get back up, you kick them while they're down.

If @Yog's plan intend to wait for the Rampires, I'll make my own, because I do insist, waiting is worse than attacking now, even on half essence.
 
OK then vote closed, looks like we are taking 'ask a friend the crown of eldritch eyes' :V
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Feb 9, 2024 at 9:41 AM, finished with 115 posts and 14 votes.

  • [X] Plan Counter to Counter's Counter
    -[X] Ask Tiffany, Harry and Lydia if any one of them has a mystical secret they are willing to privately share with you for power restoration
    -[X] Use the current scene as a crown focus to learn what are the current plans to counter the ritual we just participated in, such as Sandra attacking the magician who performed it
    --[X] If
    ---[X] Sandra is coming here, fortify current location, including sutra-controlled turrets summoned from our hell
    ---[X] There are attackers coming, but Sandra herself isn't, summon reinforcements from our hell to reinforce current position, while we move for Sandra
    ---[X] If there's not dedicated attack coming, convince Harrowmont to leave for safety
    [X]Plan Bookworm
    -[X] Try to convince him to see sense
    --[X] Offer to move the library into the care of trusted hands in the NeverNever until the crisis is over
    --[X] If the library is moved, have it copied before bringing it back. Add some cash to sweeten the deal if necessary
    --[X] Talk to the goblins, and see if they'll guard the Hanging Gardens for the rest of the night
    --[X] Have everyone move to the Hanging Gardens
    --[X] Grab Brass Courts gear for war party(armor, eye protection, gas masks etc)
    --[X] Regenerate Essence: 2 hours. 30 minutes -1 hour in Brass Courts briefing strike team, others borrowing
    --[X] Clippy: Copy over tunnel plans and city conditions to strike force as soon as Molly enters the Brass Courts
    --[X] Expenses: Empathy Excellency(if necessary for Harrowmont) + MHM to move library: 2m
    --[X] STUNT: Adkins kept a straight face as the scholar's declaration drew Carpenter's attention, her face running through a series of expressions before settling on patience. "You watch the news, Mr Harrowmont?" At his wary nod, she continued. "Remember the Strip explosions on the news last night? That was a set of Marling's thralls firing RPGs at our car. She stole those from gunrunners, and we dont know what else she stole." As the blood drained from the young man's face, the girl continued, her voice relentlessly reasonable. "This afternoon, she tried to use a suicide truck bomb on the Temple over at the Spring Preserve." She gestured with a hand, somehow encompassing the entire building in one motion. "Your wards are good, but this is a university campus, not a gated fortress." She stepped to the front of the room, parting the curtains to take a look outside. "Nothing here is going to stop a mind-controlled thrall driving a truckload of propane into the building as an opening move. And it would be....awkward having to deal with the authorities in the aftermath. So we are relocating. All of us." Her eyes searched his crestfallen face for a moment, then she touched his shoulder, her voice softening. "If it helps, I could relocate the library into the NeverNever for the duration and have it watched by trusted people. With your permission, of course. But fair warning, they'll probably make copies of the books, though you can probably negotiate monetary payment for that afterwards." She turned towards the door, raising her voice as she did so. "I'll talk to the goblins. You all have two minutes."
    [x]Plan Fools Get One Chance
    -[x][No Essence Use]If it's that important to you I can get you help getting new ones, I've got some very good contacts, we're on a clock and you don't deserve whatever her people might do to you.
    -[x]If he refuses shake your head sadly and leave to engage Sandra, you don't have time nor energy to invest further effort here.
    [X] Fortify here if Sandra wants to come to to you all the better to use her resources
 
Harry has always been bad at veils. His inability to do it is not a good argument.
In his early years, sure. Or in comparison to Molly.
Not as of Peace Talks/Battle Grounds, where he's veiling himself and Butters so well that people shooting at them cant hit them.
If Winter Knight Harry says its not something he can do, that should give you pause.

And frankly, there is currently no evidence that mass-produced Sanctuary tech is better at this than high-tier White Council wizards like Dresden. Our Hell's magic is modelled as Path Sorcery in wide deployment.
They have True Magick.

Our advantage is industrial, not cutting edge capability.
For cutting edge, you need stuff made by Molly's own hands.


They do tho, it was literally shown in those UFO record leaks. There are literally thousands of unknown radar contacts every year, the USAF doesn't do shit.

And they aren't going to seem them due to magic as previously stated. If a massive ritual can manipulate basically all probability in an area the size of a city. It can hide a few planes. This hardly where magic is going to fail compared whatever else it can do.
Again, this is post-9/11 over a major US city thats seeing a sudden explosion of violence.
Nuff said.

That is why we will be going there to investigate them, they are support not the main thing.
No offense.
But you do understand that when you are underground, you are cut off from communications, right?
GPS does not work underground. Targeting does not work underground.

And you sure as fuck do not want to be in an enclosed space with an explosive warhead detonating nearby


Smart bombs have been in use well before this point, see desert storm.

and
We are using future tech from our cities, it should be better than this years tech.
Correction: JDAMs were in use in Desert Storm.

There were no seeker bombs in Desert Storm. Nothing that can follow a moving target.
Im pretty sure there were none in the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. The SDB-II is still in development, and only gets its first test flight in 2009.


Our tech is optimized for our Hell.
A lot of it dont just translate 1 to 1 to modern Earth. That was a deliberate choice we made when we chose to pick a Hell that was as alien as our Hell is from an Earth baseline. There's a reason we ask about this.

Stealth in the Brass Courts has a different definition from stealth on Earth.
Different sensors to hide from.


I mean i have literally seen her do way more dubious shit in this story, like all the time we let red vampires go away despite knowing they will hurt more people, or the skinwalker. She can make difficult decisions if need be.
Letting Rampires go because you made a promise =/= Killing civilians yourself.
And even people who might have no problem capping 1-2 people in a fight balk when the numbers increase.

They aren't, this is patently false. What city is spending money making their sewers in bunkers.
And bunkers are also underground, again also see desert storm.
You are underestimating how effective military tech is.
Las Vegas city tunnel, from a news report on the homeless
8NewsNow article said:
You really arent grokking some of the scales involved here.
The deep tunnels get deep.
 
I was thinking about drones for the minions, not the tunnels. My concern with that doesn't start with the targeting, but with the side effects.

Even if you have magically perfect targeting with no initial if you blow up stuff underneath buildings hard enough they're going to have issues. Anything worth call a bunker buster could do as "little" as set up a gas main secondary to as much as toppling one office building into another depending on how unlucky it is.

However, the Library has some sort of supernatural ready agents. Von Trier alone is a god damned three hundred year old time mage. For reference, McCoy's about that age. Magical talent and access to lore varies, but it's reasonably likely she's a senior council tier wizard* who's managed to dig deep into the time sphere without going mad.

That's scary as hell; Holt's bag of tricks was peanuts by comparison. If she's only as good as Dresden is at his best sphere despite centuries of experience and significantly more mundane resources she's still in the zip code of some really awful stuff.

* In potential at least, she might have some cruel limits to her actual power from a lack of lore to draw on. Mundane money is great, but only goes so far.
I share your concerns about shit like gas mains in MOUT, which is why I spent so much time trying to get people to see them.

The USAF of this era used 2000 pound bunker busters.
Nobody who has seen the results of such a thing used, even in media seriously suggests using military ordnance in a friendly city. Those are real "destroyed the city to save it" vibes.


I dont know enough about what Von Trier is to hazard a strong opinion. So just speculating here.
With that caveat, I do know that you dont have to be a White Council tier spellcaster to have significant life extension in canon; canon Binder is a relatively focused one-trick pony, and he's a hundred and fifty years old.

She could well be a focused sorcerer herself; I didnt get the impression she was White Council-tier, but I could be wrong.
Or one of the many sorcerers who dont make White Council tier, but are broadly capable.

In Dead Beat, there were half a dozen of them in MacAnally's bar when Dresden came to hire it out as a meeting place for the Council war party that was coming
A sign on the wall just inside the door proclaimed, ACCORDED NEUTRAL TERRITORY. That meant that the signatories of the Unseelie Accords, including the White Council and the Red Court, had agreed that this place would be treated with respect. No one was supposed to start any kind of conflict inside the tavern, and would be bound by honor to take outside any fight that did come up, as rapidly as possible. That kind of agreement was only as good as the honor of anyone involved, but if I broke the Accords in the building, the White Council would hang me out to dry. From past experience, I assumed that the Red Court would come down on any of their folk who violated the tavern's neutrality in the same way.
The tavern was crowded with members of the supernatural community of Chicago. They weren't wizards. Most of them had only a pocketful of ability. One dark-bearded man had enough skill at kinetomancy to alter the spin on any dice he happened to throw. An elderly woman at another table had an unusually strong rapport with animals, and was active in municipal animal shelter charities. A pair of dark-haired sisters who shared an uncanny mental bond played chess at one of the tables, which seemed kind of masturbatory, somehow. In one of the corners, five or six wizened old practitioners-not strong enough to have joined the Council, but competent enough in their own right-huddled together over mugs of ale, speaking in low tones.
Mac himself glanced over his shoulder. He was a tall, spare man in a spotless white shirt and apron. Bald and good at it, Mac could have been any age between thirty-five and fifty. He pursed his lips upon seeing me, turned back to his wood-burning stove, and quickly finished up a pair of steaks he'd been cooking.
I started limping over to the bar, and as I went the room grew quiet. By the time I was there, the uneven thump of my staff on the floor and the sizzling of the steaks were the only sounds.
"Mac," I said. Someone vacated a stool, and I nodded my thanks and sat down with a wince.
"Harry," Mac drawled. He slipped his frying pan off the stove, slapped both steaks onto plates, and with a couple of gestures and brief movements made fried potatoes and fresh vegetables appear on the plates, too. It wasn't magic. Mac was just a damned good cook.
I glanced around the room and spoke in a voice loud enough for everyone to hear. "I need some space, Mac. Some people are meeting me here shortly. I'll need several tables."
A round of nervous whispers and quiet comments went through the crowd. The old practitioners in the corner rose from their table without further ado. Several of them nodded at me, and one grizzled old man growled, "Good luck."
The less experienced members of the supernatural crowd looked from me back to the departing seniors, uncertainty on every face.

"Folks," I said, in general. "I can't tell you what to do. But I would like to request that you all think about getting home before dark. Come nightfall, you want to be behind a threshold."
White Council wizards are rare.The tier below appear to be more numerous.

As for lore, she literally works for the Library of Congress.
I suspect she has better lore access than 99.9% of the magical community.
Better than some junior Council wizards.
 
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Omake ASWAH Crossover Part I
Molly skimmed through the public information and the additional annotations that IRIS had added in regards to her upcoming meeting.

Targaryen Holding was the conglomerate parent company of the slew of companies that had taken the business world by storm last year. Now the company is a major player in a myriad of fields like pharmaceuticals, technology and software, security services and one of the best think tanks in the world.

The owners of the holding companies are easy to find for anyone with a search engine, a group of young, brilliant and charismatic entrepreneurs that had come out of nowhere with multiple breakthroughs and unlike every story of silicon valley success, they had stayed together as they built up their corporations.

Each of them is a billionaire and it hadn't been easy to schedule a meeting even with her resources but the bureaucrats and Humint agents from her world-soul had made admirable effort and now she was heading to an appointment in an upscale restaurant in a New York skyscraper. It was the most trendy place right now. It had been a subtle flex on her part to choose that as the place of their meeting. Especially since it was without a previous booking, some prince or the other had given up his table to her.

Molly didn't like such grandstanding and political plays per se, but the profiling done by her intel groups had been clear that this Viserys guy loved extravagance. She got to dress in a nice dress and bring her friends to a place with nice food, so it wasn't a total drag.

Her agents had dug deep into the paper trail of this group of wunder kids and they had found dead ends, misdirections and false trails and after hundreds of hours of investigative work they had concluded that most of the public story was bullshit. A concoction of cliches and tropes playing on the audience's preconceptions to form this image of just another entrepreneurs like Zuckerburg and Bezos.

The truth was strange, the birth certificates and graduations records were fabricated, cleverly crafted forgeries inserted into the system that are only detectable with thaumlogical forensics. The funding of the company was directed through a dozen shell companies that are legitimate business in their own right but the actual sources for the capital hasn't been detected, divinations had revealed some gold to be part of the transaction.

A reverse engineering attempt at their smartphone had shown arcane principles in its construction. Incredibly advanced arrays that could turn the phone into a spell casting foci and something like a repeater for ritual magic. It had raised concern for magical malfeasance but a more in depth array showed it was not possible to use it for a repeater unless you were of a sufficient magical weight. This was a ritual array to spread the influence of a god.

That had been a tense day at the Last station but Molly's crown had shown that there was no malevolent intention behind the designs but that had been the inflection point that had made him making this meeting a priority for her.

Her car pulls into the parking lot and she taps black riders and says "Behave."

She and her friends walked up to the exclusive elevator and they got in there as the elevator took them straight to the top.

"Does anyone have any last minute revelations, I know you have been observing them all in your own ways so did anyone find anything?" She asks the group.

Harry just shakes her head, his divinations have been running into a blank wall and multiple attempts to sidestep the defenses have failed to gain all but the most peripheral knowledge.

"I found some ghosts observing them from afar, the 'physical' eyes weren't affected by their defenses but their own buildings and plants were warded very tight. It has been slow going, they practice at least some operational security. They have a no business talk rule in their commute." Lydia says with a displeased look on her face.

"I talked to some sources I have in the industries they are in and they appear to be on the Up and Up. Their employees are well treated surprisingly so in those fields, their pharmaceuticals are pretty safe despite the expedited testing and release and their political actions have generally had a positive impact on the world. They somehow got the republicans to care about climate change as a part of their party agenda. No nefarious activity that I heard about but strangely I haven't been able to talk to any of their employees, they always spook whenever I approach them or send someone to approach them." TIffany explains and she looks intrigued by the challenge.

"I talked to Daenerys, she was a nice girl. She has some interest in theology and I just ran into her in the seminary. She does seem unusually mature for her but some teenagers can be like that so I can't be too judgmental." Michal shrugs and says, the people around give him an exasperated look but they don't say anything. The lord works in mysterious ways.

"Well its time to meet them now. Its our floor." She says as the elevator stops at the top floor.

They step out and face their next challenge as defenders of reality.



Omake about Viserys and the crew getting sent to this world, First part for now but I intend to continue it.
 
If Winter Knight Harry says its not something he can do, that should give you pause.
never been impressed with his magic. dude is not good at things beside thaumaturgy and blasting. like even winter knight harry is basically an energy bender. and seriously you are saying radar is the one big weakness to magic, thats where you draw the line at magics capabilites. Forces 3 should easily able to defeat any amount of radar. he just doesn't have the skill to do it.

and we paid points for future tech, i don't see why that wouldn't include stealth tech or magic as it were. like paint can beat radar bro its not unbeatable.
Again, this is post-9/11 over a major US city thats seeing a sudden explosion of violence.
Nuff said.
no, like whats your evidence. we, as a society now, know that radar contacts are frequent and nothing major come from that.
Correction: JDAMs were in use in Desert Storm.

There were no seeker bombs in Desert Storm. Nothing that can follow a moving target.
Im pretty sure there were none in the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. The SDB-II is still in development, and only gets its first test flight in 2009.
wrong
nationalinterest.org

Stealth, GPS, 'Smart Bombs' and More: How Desert Storm Changed Warfare Forever

The air war lasted 6 weeks to clear the way for a successful 100-hour ground invasion and brought new technology to air attacks.
perscision guided bombs that can hit moving enemies were what devastated the republican tank troops.

they weren't smart bombs in the sense of self guiding which is mia culpa but the capabilties are basically the same.
Stealth in the Brass Courts has a different definition from stealth on Earth.
Different sensors to hide from.
radar is very basic, its literally 100 year old tech. they almost certainly have it as well.

Letting Rampires go because you made a promise =/= Killing civilians yourself.
And even people who might have no problem capping 1-2 people in a fight balk when the numbers increase.
bro you are moving the goal post so much, having some drones for support isn't going to kill civilians, that's a bad faith argument if i have ever seen it.

we do have a brain. If there is a significant risk of casualties we just won't do it. having the capabilities as well as drones surveillance capabilities is well worth it. it doesn't need fire a single shot to be worth the risk.
You really arent grokking some of the scales involved here.
The deep tunnels get deep.
the 5,000-pound BLU-113. It can go through some 22 feet of concrete or over 100 feet of earth. MOP will go a lot deeper - 200 feet of 5,000 psi concrete.
 
Arc 11 Post 84: Rider Upon a Red Horse
Rider Upon a Red Horse

13th of January 2007 A.D.

The shortwaves of the ritual still hanging in the air, a wave-breaker constructed of frozen waves superimposed. Another time, in another place you might have stopped to marvel at the artistry, but you're running out of time. "What's Sandra planning to send after us?"

Flashes again pass through your mind, a darkened room, bare concrete walls, weapons hidden under a tarp, assault riffles, grenades like the ones you had turned into a desk toy and lots of them, the weapons of a war now hopefully consigned to 'might have been'-s still deadly. In the corner under a tarp about a dozen unassuming beige tubes. By chance or some lingering virtue of Tiffany's blessing you recognize them all too well.

Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 7/15

"They have LAWS, they have bloody LAWs," you curse. Seeing the confused looks of your companions and even more of Harrowmont you explain, still sounding a lot more calm than you feel: "M72 LAW, that is a light anti-tank weapon, they can shoot a stationary target at 200 yards or something and they have a lot of them, at least twenty, even if she keeps back half to guard the tunnels with that's ten warheads designed to blow up tanks coming though that window," you motion in time with the words. "I'm assuming your wards cannot hold against that?"

The poor man gives you a horrified look. "No of course not. What would?"

He makes a fair point of course As ugly and bloody as the hidden worlds of the supernatural world can get, rare is the person one prepared for military hardware. "They have riffles and regular grenades like we dealt with at the Xanadu as well. I'm assuming the reason she has not used heavy duty stuff before was the lack of clear lines of fire but..."

Harry gives the pleasant park stretching out almost from the window to the edge of the campus a long worried look. "How sure are you of their tactics?"

"Not at all, what I am sure of are the weapons and that is the best line of fire. It also does not require them to get past campus police they can just stand on Swenson Street I think it's called and shoot in."

"If I know where it's coming from I might be able to hit the rockets with enough force to make them detonate, but if they open up with riffles as well...."

"Is she coming?" Tiffany asks, the least fazed among the four of you. She sighs. "This is all one big magician's trick, look at the bright lights instead of the coin passed up the sleeve, more Tessa than Nicky."

"No, she is just sending enough weapons to worry a column of tanks," you sigh. "It's not like we can ignore them. We are going to need our own fire teams. Even if we just leave, it's not like she's going to pull them back. Chaos is the point."

"Was the point," Oliver Adkin interjects. "Now the dark rite is eclipsed, a lost soldier of darkness becomes just a lost soldier, not transmuted into a token more ethereal."

"We don't know if Sandra can pull her thralls back once she sends them out. They might be..." disdain and pitty enter your voice. "Single use, like the rockets." you try to remember more about the people picking up the weapons. "I don't think it's infected, more of Tommy's people."

"Little Tommy... what?" Harrowmont pauses and collects himself. "Not that I would personally know such disreputable individuals, but it seems unlikely he would partake in the wholesale destruction of the city."

"He wasn't doing it by his own will," Harry explains tersely, running a hand through his hair in exasperation. "It would be safer for everyone if we could stop them on route. I wonder if Tommy knows where his remaining rogue men are?"

What do you do?

[] Call Tommy, try to figure out which of his men are still unaccounted for and track them down

[] Call the Library again. Now is about the time you need some federal aid

[] Stick to the plan, call in some reinforcements from Sanctuary to hold out here while the rest of you head into the tunnels (Charisma Leadership roll to convince Harry)

[] Stay here, deal with the attackers, then head into the tunnels (Charisma Leadership roll to convince Tiffany)

[] Write in


OOC: I know the plan had a contingency for 'if an attack was coming without Sandra' but I figured that did not include quite the scale of the attack. Also this allowed other people to offer sugestions on what to do as well as speculate on what Sandra and co plan. Also yes Lash did just namedrop two Denarians, but she used their nicknames so neither of the two sorcerers did not get to roll Occult for insight.
 
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Jesus Christ, that's way more than what can just "fall off the back of a truck" That's an entire crate of anti-tank weapons just evaporating, even disregarding the regular firearms and grenades which would be eyebrow raising in themselves. It's not even obsolete, that's the standard anti-tank infantry weapon in use by the US Army.

Getting that would have required a significant amount of focused effort. One or two, I can buy. "Enough that I can shoot ten into an offensive attack and still have enough to ruin the day of any attacker". Not so much, not without having Help in High Places.
 
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Yeah that is definitely going to be a follow up investigation.

Yeah, to have this fucking much, someone had to be running Active Interference to obscure her actions. I could buy one or two getting lost, this is a full crate of the damn things. Even military rifles are tracked, a full crate of weapons with enough range and power to just delete a VIP even in a secured motorcade? And nobody noticed it was missing?

This isn't a third world country or Russia, someone had to sign off for that with enough authority that nobody bothered looking too deep into it. Which means Sandra has either subverted some uncomfortably high ranking logistics officers (I'm talking Colonel+ here, the kind of people who would be monitored for Fuckfuck games by anyone who cares about the Masquerade remaining a thing), or she's receiving active support from a previously unknown player with tremendous influence in the US Armed Forces, and I'm not sure which is the more Concerning possibility.

A crate of RPGs? That could be explained. This can't, this is US Army restricted military hardware in enough numbers to arm a battalion, this isn't even a red flag, it's Crimson. Because if an unauthorized party could secure hardware on that scale, what else do they have?
 
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