Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

Kaelor said:
PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.
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(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)
 
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Starlit Horizon said:
If we kill the Master, we will make the world worse.

Consider that for a moment. We will not "purge the world from the abomination". We will create a bigger monster that is not pointed at us personally (but can be pointed at anyone else in the Equestria, or towards Equestria as the whole).
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Destroy one ancient Evil? Replace them with another.

I think Paranoia is cuter than the Tribal door was, but we will have to see if he does more damage or not.

He will certainly do his best. Worst?

Evil is certainly the most misbehaving child we have so far...

Maybe.

He might also just exist in our mind and not be responsible for countless atrocities. We aren't that... aware of regrettable actions and what they do.
 
Well, I am not deterred.

Do you want for Velvet to maintain Moral integrity? Nothing says like moral integrity as self sacrifice for the world.

Do you want for Velvet to speedrun to Glory or any other end goal? Master is expert at keeping others well and truly motivated.

Do you want for Velvet to keep her hoof clean going forward ? If there is any moral obstacle barring the way to the goal, well it is likely that they would be conveniently removed. Velvet would not ever remember it, and Master is skilled enough not to leave any traces leading to us.

Want to escape consequences of your past deeds? Blame everything on Master if caught.

Want to pass judgment of Harmony if it ever happens? Well if Harmony eventually blasts you, it is Master who will be primary target.

[X] Offer yourself instead.
 
Glau said:
We are going to have to kill Marinette too.
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It's not guaranteed yet. She wants to corrupt us, so we have time. And I asked Bird if it was possible to befriend her and the answer is yes. But no information about what we would have to do to do so beyond Velvet won't have to hurt her family.

And we can gather enough names to our side to at least drive her off, even if we can't kill her. Since we have time. We should make sure to make use of it.
 
Light Seeker said:
Oh dear. Look at me, making an ass out of myself with assumptions.

Very well, then. See you never, Master.
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I appreciated your thoughtful replies, at least, even if I didn't agree with them! (I'm glad I saw Bird's reply before I started writing my responses :V )
Glau said:
She was a friend, he pushed her into trying to kill us.
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She... was? We did have that scene (we're pretty sure was) from her perspective, and she did hate us quite a bit. Maybe she wasn't an enemy, but a friend? Really?
Defaulter said:
Also have we really not earned Baldomare's loyalty at this point @BirdBodhisattva ? I didn't think the books were actually vital to us doing so, I thought she appreciated them obviously but that they were merely a way to pay for her presence in the wake that she had minimal control over. I figured that all of the time we've spent doing social actions with our family and her interactions with them, not to mention our conversations with her in-general have made her at least somewhat loyal to us :(
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I think this is a case of actions speak louder than words. Narratively, yes, we've been quite friendly with Baldomare. Most of this we've gotten for free/ancillary to the family interaction, because we have a lot of questions for that oh-so-bright Lantern name (and an unmatched wine cellar, apparently). And we're Secret Histories-aligned, which perhaps she respects. And most of all, we have ponies we love very much, which she can definitely understand. (I think she sees a lot of herself, in us. For good and for bad.)

But still, we gave her leash to the Master when he asked. We didn't give her the Moth fruit or any good book at all. We've earned some friendship and some kindness from her -- what we saw in the apocrypha where she was summoned by another was very kind -- but not her loyalty. Not at all.
 
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Starlit Horizon said:
Regrettable Action are regrettable. They are never lesser evil.
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This is not true though, if that were the case then we might as well not bother with any of this morality nonsense and just ascend to the Mother Of Wolves ending already. I mean by your logic, Paranoia will just jump out of thin air and bite our jugular out the moment we reach Glory no? The Wolf is bad yes, it's terrible, I hate it, but each Wolf is just ONE bigger wound in the world. These wounds are bleeding yes, and the longer they bleed the more the world will suffer and the greater its extent of suffering...but Wounds, even wounds as great as these CAN be treated with the Glory or if not outright fixed their symptoms mitigated. This Wolf will be an issue, potentially not just in the epilogue but in the current quest certainly, it will be a terrible thing but again, it will not be necessarily worse. Never in the RA's description or Bird's comments has it been stated that every RA action will inevitably turn out worse than just picking the alternatives, if that were the case then the RA's wouldnt be tempting and they are supposed to be tempting.

The Wolves are decentralised natural disasters, they are not individual entities like the Master, they are an overall awfulness spread out thinly across the entire world. I'm not saying pick RA's every time we get our back pressed up against the wolf, in-fact I'll refuse to vote for any RA after this one but I cannot Accept the Master doing what he wants to do, I just cannot.
 
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Defaulter said:
This is not true though, if that were the case then we might as well not bother with any of this morality nonsense and just ascend to the Mother Of Wolves ending already. I mean by your logic, Paranoia will just jump out of thin air and bite our jugular out the moment we reach Glory no? The Wolf is bad yes, it's terrible, I hate it, but each Wolf is just ONE bigger wound in the world. These wounds are bleeding yes, and the longer they bleed the more the world will suffer and the greater its extent of suffering...but Wounds, even wounds as great as these CAN be treated with the Glory or if not outright fixed their symptoms mitigated. This Wolf will be an issue, potentially not just in the epilogue but in the current quest certainly, it will be a terrible thing but again, it will not be necessarily worse. Never in the RA's description or Bird's comments has it been stated that every RA action will inevitably turn out worse than just picking the alternatives, if that were the case then the RA's wouldnt be tempting and they are supposed to be tempting.

The Wolves are decentralised natural disasters, they are not individual entities like the Master, they are an overall awfulness spread out thinly across the entire world. I'm not saying pick RA's every time we get our back pressed up against the wolf, in-fact I'll refuse to vote for any RA after this one but I cannot Accept the Master doing what he wants to do, I just cannot.
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To be fair I would not put it past a wolf child to do exactly that. The wolf is, at the end of the day, self defeating.

I just think we have options to be tough enough to keep moving, to drag our body and soul to Glory anyway, dragging the gnawing jaws of our cursed offspring if necessary.
 
Alex Sol said:
Well, I am not deterred.

Do you want for Velvet to maintain Moral integrity? Nothing says like moral integrity as self sacrifice for the world.

Do you want for Velvet to speedrun to Glory or any other end goal? Master is expert at keeping others well and truly motivated.

Do you want for Velvet to keep her hoof clean going forward ? If there is any moral obstacle barring the way to the goal, well it is likely that they would be conveniently removed. Velvet would not ever remember it, and Master is skilled enough not to leave any traces leading to us.

Want to escape consequences of your past deeds? Blame everything on Master if caught.

Want to pass judgment of Harmony if it ever happens? Well if Harmony eventually blasts you, it is Master who will be primary target.

[X] Offer yourself instead.
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🫡
I can respect that decision. But I still hope it does not win.
 
Fouredged Sword said:
To be fair I would not put it past a wolf child to do exactly that. The wolf is, at the end of the day, self defeating.
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That's fair yeah, but as one poster (whose name I've forgotten my bad ;-; )has put it already, the Wolves aren't supposed to cause great damage to the world in one big dose. They are, much like their Father, injuries, wounds, that slowly bleed the World's goodness and compassion. But, even in the original CS, the Wolf as an injury was prophesised to be treatable in some way. Granted a prophecy isn't a guarantee but in this crazy fusion setting, so long as we do not pass the 50% threshold that 4/7 wounds would entail I think we'll find some way to deal and treat their symptoms if we win the game, and if we don't then...it's already over, no?

Also I just realized there are six elements of harmony and seven wolf stains, this is probably just the fact that six and seven are common numbers in media for a variety of reasons but I do have to wonder if they are somehow related, I mean didn't Rarity become quite paranoid and hoarding of Tom when Discord discorded her?
 
Also, consider this:

When we've met Baldomare after we've summoned Mareinette - fucking Mareinette - she said that she didn't think of us worse.

She was absolutely ok with the Master.

When Baldomare have met a Velvet that has done a third Regrettable Action - a much smaller regrettable action - said Velvet could not resist talking in Wolf-Tongue, and Baldomare was visibly disgusted by said Wolf-Tongue.

Baldomare, a fucking Name of Lantern, who doesn't blink an eye at Mareinnette, was visibly disgusted by Wolfiness. Not enough to really dislike Velvet, but think of the strength of reaction.

Does that feel you with confidense? Does that look like someone who "is better" than someone who accepts? When even Mansus spirit, when even a Name is disgusted by its sign.

And Bird played with Names becoming increasingly less friendly with every RA. He ultimately decided against that, let me be clear, but it was something that made sense, lore wise. Not something that was necessarily, sure, but something that made sense.

Again, think of it. If - potentially - even the Master, but at least Mareinette would become increasingly more hostile.

What are the implications.

Defaulter said:
This is not true though, if that were the case then we might as well not better with any of this morality nonsense and just ascend to the Mother Of Wolves ending already. I mean by your logic, Paranoia will just jump out of thin air and bite our jugular out the moment we reach Glory no? The Wolf is bad yes, it's terrible, I hate it, but each Wolf is just ONE bigger wound in the world. These wounds are bleeding yes, and the longer they bleed the more the world will suffer and the greater its extent of suffering...but Wounds, even wounds as great as these CAN be treated with the Glory or if not outright fixed their symptoms mitigated. This Wolf will be an issue, potentially not just in the epilogue but in the current quest certainly, it will be a terrible thing but again, it will not be necessarily worse. Never in the RA's description or Bird's comments has it been stated that every RA action will inevitably turn out worse than just picking the alternatives, if that were the case then the RA's wouldnt be tempting and they are supposed to be tempting.

The Wolves are decentralised natural disasters, they are not individual entities like the Master, they are an overall awfulness spread out thinly across the entire world. I'm not saying pick RA's every time we get our back pressed up against the wolf, in-fact I'll refuse to vote for any RA after this one but I cannot Accept the Master doing what he wants to do, I just cannot.
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We don't know that we can heal the Stain. For all we know, Wolf-spawn will remain even after the victory. That would make more sense, at least to me.

Can be symptoms mitigated? Sure, but we can "mitigate" the Master as well, when we are an Hour.

Again. RAs can be a convenient evil. They won't stop us, they won't harm us.

They help us not lose, and maybe even win...

But they help us, not anyone else. And sure, some Stains are better than defeat. Worms are worse, 100%, but Worms are not of the world. Maybe Outside is the same thing as Nowhere, maybe it isn't, but supposed Truths and Laws of the world - like that lock on the Three-Valved Door, or probably Wolf - they don't work in that context. It makes sense.

We have an idea how Mother of Wolves looks like, it is better than the Worms. If we are risking losing, sure, lets pope one out.

But the Master is of the World. Perhaps evil, but evil of the World.
 
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It's probably genuinely morally correct to let the Master puppet us into our victory over the worms at all costs, instead of placing ourselves in opposition and destroying a more motivated and more knowledgeable Name that cares about the fate of the world. We're obviously too sentimental to do anything it takes to save the world, so why not close our eyes and let someone else take over?

I'm not voting for it personally, but if we're gonna discuss moral good, I'll throw it out there.

Life precedes value to life.
Therefore any degradation of these ponies' lives can be used to justify the preservation of everyone's lives.
 
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Starlit Horizon said:
People, I would like to kindly remind you.

Regrettable Action are regrettable. They are never lesser evil.

They can be more convenient evil.

If we kill the Master, we will make the world worse.

Consider that for a moment. We will not "purge the world from the abomination". We will create a bigger monster that is not pointed at us personally (but can be pointed at anyone else in the Equestria, or towards Equestria as the whole).

I believe there's a lot of righteous fury right now, but I do not believe everyone here understands the price of "Kill".

Velvet will not make the world a better place by killing the Master. Definitionally.

It is impossible to make the world a better place with a Regrettable Action.

...Ok, maybe if it harmed everything we loved, and not the world, then maybe. But this isn't the case: Kill will not touch them.

So, the only remaining option is such:

The Third Son will be worse than the Master.

Please, consider the implications.

Is it really worth it? If the Master is going to be an epilogue problem, well. Why do you think the Third Son won't be?
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I get that you are trying to convince people of your viewpoint but can you maybe do it in a way that makes you sound less condescending? I don't think anyone who has read the Quest doesn't understand how bad an RA is. We get it. None of us are trying to justify it on moral grounds last I checked, hell none of us are trying to justify it beyond wanting the Master gone and not doing it by having our friend raped. The only one who has been harping on about moral justifications is you. Please stop it. It pisses me the fuck off each time I see such a post saying Accept is best because in this case rape is totes fine 'cause utilitarianism.

And as Aspirant points out under the utilitarianism ethos you so espouse Offer is the most morally correct option.

Anyway, I wanted to vote for Offer under the assumption it would be a path forward but it is a dead end and with that the only option left is

[X] Kill the Master [THIS IS A REGRETTABLE ACTION]
 
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HeWhoLurks said:
Applying Attention of the Laws on Edge, alongside an Influence should grant us anywhere from an extra +30 to +60 to combat rolls. If we really want to be sure we could do The Forge's Redemption to remove our scar and grant us an extra point of Health.
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She is an Alukite.
I would not assume that is nearly enough.
And we get one try. Then she can just second birth herself and we have a free Mareinette angry at us.
 
spiderhellian said:
<Regarding Copper Secuteur>

She... was? We did have that scene (we're pretty sure was) from her perspective, and she did hate us quite a bit. Maybe she wasn't an enemy, but a friend? Really?
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She was originally, at least Velvet considered her a friendly acquaintance. But we never reached out to firm up our relations with any of the cult members beside Jade so whatever regard Copper held was curdled by jealousy into hatred. I imagine it would have come as quite a shock to Velvet if she knew what Copper thought of her before the end of the cult.
 
Look. I'm all for hurling ourselves at the battlelines and fight the good fight, to build our trenches and tell the enemy that it shall walk no further. But with the clarification that possession is pretty much misery porn, where we have literally zero real agency or capability to influence anything that really matters, and any hope of rescue may well be nonexistent, then that option is little else but giving the Master another tool for the job. Another axe to grind skulls with. And... I think I won't be able to stomach reading that...

So I'll be sticking with Banish, with Wolf as a second option.

Because above all else. Fuck letting the psychopath win.

I'd rather have him realize a fundamental part of existence:

he unmaketh,
he unmaketh,
at the last, HE UNMAKETH'
 
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God I wish this vote wasn't so difficult. Maybe Starlight is right about the Wolf, but the alternative is just so hard to stomach it's unbeareable to think about.
 
Starlit Horizon said:
Regrettable Action are regrettable. They are never lesser evil.
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They are, however, a step towards a victory. Even if not the best victory.

And bluntly, I would sacrifice quite a bit to hurt the master at this point. They get to learn that the mortal concerns they thought they were above are reason enough for them to die. This is not a motive that is really subject to arguments about the lesser evil.

We are going to need to kill the wolf too at some point, but I think it'll help us do that.

spiderhellian said:
She... was? We did have that scene (we're pretty sure was) from her perspective, and she did hate us quite a bit. Maybe she wasn't an enemy, but a friend? Really?
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Remember at the very start of quest, when we met up for the first time? Pretty sure we were friends with everyone in our little club.
 
Everyone voting for the wolf must understand even in this terrible scenario it is not the moral choice and Velvet will regret having done it. It will cause greater evil to the world than the master, it will cause more pain to the world than what the master wants to do, it will probably even make Cadance's life harder due to the world that she is helping rule becoming worse. Accept is mortally terrible, it is a horrible horrible action but is is not as bad as the wolf. Cadance will be harmed unknowingly and will not be traumatised. By the time the master is active again we will either be an hour and fully able to deal with them or will be dead in which case the master is much more able to prevent the worms than a wolf. Accepting is incredibly morally bad but the wolf will always be mortally worse. If your choosing it do so knowing it won't end up feeling better or nicer than accepting, it won't make Velvet feel or look cool or impressive just self disgusted. Sometimes it is better to let a bad person win than making them lose and bringing everything else down with them. In the end I can't stop people choosing the wolf and if knowing all this people really want to then sure but don't think your doing something good in choosing it because that is one thing the wolf cannot be.
 
Iustus Vitae said:
I get that you are trying to convince people of your viewpoint but can you maybe do it in a way that makes you sound less condescending? I don't think anyone who has read the Quest understands how bad an RA is. We get it. None of us are trying to justify it on moral grounds last I checked, hell none of us are trying to justify it beyond wanting the Master gone and not doing it by having our friend raped. The only one who has been harping on about moral justifications is you. Please stop it. It pisses me the fuck off each time I see such a post saying Accept is best because in this case rape is totes fine 'cause utilitarianism.
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Please. Mind your words. And your tone.

This is a contentious vote for everyone and there is no need to go at each other like this. None at all.

Starlit has eloquently and effectively advocated for what they believe to be the best course of action for days.

Their fortitude is extremely commendable and I hope when something matters this much to me I am also able to advocate as they have.

And they have swayed many people if the vote numbers are anything to go by.

You don't have to agree with them, but do not call them a villain or a rape apologist. We can be better than that.
 
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Man, a shame offer yourself is now falling back, I would definitely like reading what Bird described :D
Sweet sweet horror.
[X] Offer yourself instead.
[X] Accept her offer.
 
I also have to ask where the idea that the Wolf is worse than the Master comes from. Last I checked an RA will be worse than the last RA not worse than all permutations of the other options.
zxzx24 said:
Please. I know Mind your words. And your tone.

This is a contentious vote for everyone and there is no need to go at each other like this. None at all.

Starlit has eloquently and effectively advocated for what they believe to be the best course of action for days.

Their fortitude is extremely commendable and I hope when something matters this much to me I am also able to advocate as they have.

And they have swayed many people if the vote numbers are anything to go by.

You don't have to agree with them, but do not call them a villain or a rape apologist. We can be better than that.
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I'm not calling him either of those things nor that he stop arguing his point, all I'm asking is that he change the manner he is doing it. The manner he is writing it. It screams condescension and an appeal to emotion/base emotional manipulation to me. Maybe I'm the only one who feels so but I still felt it had to be said.
 
I will keep spreading Banish propaganda until morale improves.

Hey Offer players, were you voting for Offer out of a mix of tactical considerations and morality? And with the recent post, do you no longer think Offer is the right vote? Consider voting Banish, and fight for a brighter future.

(Man, this is a close race. Thanks for all the discussion everyone!)
 
Also? The rest of the world isn't helpful. Our confidents, our minions, our family, our subordinates: they help us block other players and reach glory. The rest of the world does not. It's status is more or less irrelevant to our goals.

I would welcome the rest of the world making itself useful rather than a threat or a distraction, but I don't see it happening.

So it gets to soak damage for us.
 
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Yeah. Let's all be real, we would regret ALL of these choices. The Wolf is bad, its ALWAYS bad, but maybe not as bad as something else. We wont, cant honestly, know for sure until we suffer through the aftermath.
 
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