Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

Kaelor said:
PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.
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(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)
 
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For everyone on the fence about Twi, Bird said this:
BirdBodhisattva said:
If an option has "???" for an explanation, you have NO way of predicting what it might do.

None of the options will be a "net negative". Meaning that no options, if picked, would put you in a worse place you were before. However, there ARE options which are "net neutral". Meaning that some options will not benefit Velvet at all, to the extent some voters could consider it "wasted" due to lost opportunity cost.
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So seeing Twi is guaranteed not to put Velvet in a worse position. She doesn't want to see Velvet? Fine. But she won't ignore Candance. Or she can try to and fail anyways.
 
My votes, roughly in descending priority and subject to change based on vote tally/arguments:
(Bits are mechanically superior if we don't spend them in bulk, but it's NOT a option I want to see so...)

[X] "Cadance, both you and Shining sent invitations to Twilight. But maybe we should… check on her in person?" (???)
[X] "Your dress is good. But it could be better. I know a mare..." (Involve Rarity in dressmaking. Applies Rarity's Lore levels)
[X] You will spend a long time with Cadance. Whisper a few Lore-secrets, here and there. (???)
[X] "I would be honored to be the maid of honor." (Become closer to Cadance)
 
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Yep, and if it turns out the result is 'nothing happens' then I'm at peace with that. I'm willing to spend the 500 bits opportunity cost on seeing if something will happen. And if nothing happens now, I'm perfectly willing to do so again in the future. Just shrugging and going 'welp, her psyche is fucked, unless we reveal ourselves which is suicidal' just is not something I'd enjoy.
 
Pittauro said:
only for the low levels, only if they know their affinities, and low levels on their own are still not worth that much AND good friends are not that useful compared to confidants, and bringing them to confidant WILL require work I don't think we're really willing to put on.

Seriously, we can just... work on ONE of them if we really care for it. I really don't expect us to work on all 4 of them if this option wins. I don't expect us to work on even TWO of them. MAYBE one. In which case the pick goes half to waste.
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We don't need to work on the at good friend level they are willing to help us and lend a hoof already for most things. And your overlooking who we are getting Mayor mare, the towns Mayor, Filth Rich, the wealthiest pony in the town. Applejack the most trusted person in the town, and Cheerilee the towns teacher. Together they represent a lock on the towns development and growth an option we voted for. The ability to catch problems before and they happen, because we will know what the town is doing and correct it if needed. All without spend any of Velveta actions.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
We don't need to work on the at good friend level they are willing to help us and lend a hoof already for most things. And your overlooking who we are getting Mayor mare, the towns Mayor, Filth Rich, the wealthiest pony in the town. Applejack the most trusted person in the town, and Cheerilee the towns teacher. Together they represent a lock on the towns development and growth an option we voted for. The ability to catch problems before and they happen, because we will know what the town is doing and correct it if needed. All without spend any of Velveta actions.
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Before Axe completely distracted him Velvet Pride was contemplating usurping our social position in the town in accordance with his father's wishes. The mess the Cult devolved into shows what happens when we completely ignore social bonds in favor of "getting things done", if everyone important considers us a very good friend they'll hit back at threats to us if and when they become aware of them.

I'd consider the arrangement the social equivalent of putting up Forge and Lantern wards to defend against supernatural attacks, once it's achieved we'll passively pull benefits and enjoy an extra level of safety.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Pittauro on Jan 13, 2024 at 6:57 PM, finished with 250 posts and 45 votes.
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as of right now we have 3 strong picks (Closer to Cadance, Twilight, dress), a 4th option that's not that far off and could still make the cut ( upgrade contacts to good friends), and another 3 picks that are really far behind but MIGHT still have a chance with a good argument (500 bits, whisper lore secrets, and invite Names).

It looks like the following options have few to no votes though: Co-Equals, Invite Family, Fluttershy's idea, lvl 5 books,
 
[X] "I would be honored to be the maid of honor." (Become closer to Cadance)

[X] "Your dress is good. But it could be better. I know a mare..." (Involve Rarity in dressmaking. Applies Rarity's Lore levels)

[X] Everypony who is important enough is involved in some way. Get to know your co-equals better, from the Solar Court and elsewhere. (???)

Level up with the sane!princess, help rarity achive her dreams, and get to know our co-workers better.

All in a days work!
 
I know I can't make this weasel-argument work, but it'd be nice if "immediate family is automatically invited" means that Auntie Baldomare gets to come along at Silky's insistence.
 
[x] "I would be honored to be the maid of honor." (Become closer to Cadance)
[x] "Your dress is good. But it could be better. I know a mare..." (Involve Rarity in dressmaking. Applies Rarity's Lore levels)
[x] "But none of them are nobles. Are you sure I can invite them?" (Increase all non-locked ponies in your Contacts list to Good Friends)
 
Hmm, getting a whole bunch of Ponyville notables more on-side is very attractive, but I want to go a bit more sentimental for this wedding, get a good vibe going. And this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Rarity. We can befriend those other people later.
 
Toboe said:
@BirdBodhisattva
Btw, how is Pride after the talk?
Still avoiding us?
Befriendable/Acquaintance?
Technically now acquaintance but too distracted by DoA for us to do acquaintance stuff unless it is about DoA?
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You left home immediately after talking to Pride, so you can't tell yet.



Also, I cant find the question right now. But someone asked if Pride (EDIT: Steppes) is auto-invited. He is not. Your immediate family means only the ponies who you can't allow to die. So only those ponies and your Confidantes will be auto-invited.
EDIT: as in, not even Comet is auto-invited. He will only be invited if you pick Fluttershy's option. But Fluttershy will go without any further action from you.
 
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[x] "I would be honored to be the maid of honor." (Become closer to Cadance)
[x] "Your dress is good. But it could be better. I know a mare..." (Involve Rarity in dressmaking. Applies Rarity's Lore levels)
[x] "Cadance, both you and Shining sent invitations to Twilight. But maybe we should… check on her in person?" (???)
 
I was thinking of minmaxing, and
What does the thread think of asking Baldomare to give us an Lantern Influence,
us applying AotL and scrying Frangiclave + something else ourselves if bits permit to really optimise Name Actions?

@BirdBodhisattva does Mareinette think asking her to Infiltrate Copper's Cult (after relevant RoTT support)
with the following objectives in order of importance is feasible?
She has no Moth, but *gestures in the direction of the Mareinette investigation update*
1: Make sure everyone thinks nothing is wrong, even after she leaves
2: destroy hard evidence of connections to the Cult
3: Try your best not to kill, cripple or generally give a Malus to ponies that would not have received one w/o your intervention
4: Steal resources (Level 5 Books, Bits), impair attempts to attack Velvet, and low level sabotage things in general
5: Report to Velvet at the end of the month if feasible, and mention if harder approaches are now feasible (outright replacing Copper?)
 
Alright, so here's my argument for how befriending a bunch of semi-random ponies can advance our eldritch goals. Thanks to our Bureau policy decisions our organizational integrity is beyond reproach, and also rather difficult to insert Lore into as a one-and-done. So I was thinking that when the question of workplace/organization culture inevitably comes up we could use lessons garnered from our potential-but-not-yet-Initiated Good Friends to set things up for natural development.

Take Cheerilee for example, that talk we had with her way back when that touched on her indefatigable approach to paperwork strongly suggests (to me anyway) an affinity for Heart. Retelling that story and transplanting that scrap of philosophy to our work culture could prepare the Bureau for Heart-related Lores or revelations without it being a shock, and more importantly, without us ever actually saying anything questionable.

"Oh that? I had it from a good friend of mine back in ponyville. Harmony knows I've had to do more than my fair share of paperwork in my time, so the idea rather struck me as a better way to look at it."

Same thought goes for Applejack's nascent Forge philosophy, and the others. Might be a little, methodical, but I think it wouldn't be near as volatile as trying to raid someone and hoping our people are willing to figure things out cold-turkey. Heck, could even use the raid on the evil!cult as a revelation and a ideological shoring-up, delineating between proper homegrown Equestrian values and those twisted perversions we nobly stand against.
 
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lurker9875 said:
I was thinking of minmaxing, and
What does the thread think of asking Baldomare to give us an Lantern Influence,
us applying AotL and scrying Frangiclave + something else ourselves if bits permit to really optimise Name Actions?
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Neither an Influence nor an AotL affect rituals. This would do absolutely nothing in that regard.
 
lurker9875 said:
@BirdBodhisattva does Mareinette think asking her to Infiltrate Copper's Cult (after relevant RoTT support)
with the following objectives in order of importance is feasible?
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This is definitely not the moment to have this kind of discussion.

No, let me rephrase that. Feel free to theorycraft whatever you want, whenever you want. But given the current ongoing vote, I really don't see the point in answering something like this right now. One of my functions here is to guide the discussion, and I feel that engaging with this right now (with the infamous "word of QM") would decrease the focus on the current vote.

There will definitely be a better time for this question. If the situation ever arises where this becomes desirable. But until then, there is a pastel-colored horse who wants to get married.
 
Ultimately from a narrative perspective I think the trying to help Twilight is important. Even if it doesn't work I think the willingness to try is important to Velvet as a character. Velvet has crossed and will continue to cross moral lines in the future because the Worms have to be stopped. At the same time though attempting to hold onto her values as much as possible and her willingness to take actions like abandoning the cult to save Twilight are the things that make her so compelling. I want to stick to that.

I don't think inviting our contacts is a bad choice all things considered, but I don't find it as interesting as the others. I also don't think it's as mechanically useful as people think it is. Most of the things they could help us with would have been much more useful early in the quest and I don't think we'll have time to fully take advantage of them with everything else that keeps coming up. Are the things they can help with now useful, yes. Will we be able to take real advantage of it, I doubt it. I stand by the idea that getting to know the others running the government groups besides the Bureau will be much more useful long term. Also Rarity's involvement is both potentially useful mechanically and more interesting narratively.

Really an argument could be made that the bridesmaid choice may not have as much of an impact as people think. We're already her best friend and while sure we can become closer that may not mean that much. Really whispering lore to her and having a start on that path may be much more useful mechanically since we haven't been able to do so until now. I'd prefer the bridesmaid choice because I think I'll like it more, but it is something to think about.
 
Personally I do not see the point of going for Twilight anymore that the definition of sunk cost fallacy. We had our chance to get her on side by both choice and chance, and chose wrong on the first one, and got unlucky on the second one.

Even aside from that We know Twilight is a lantern main, which is just not useful to us. We have Jade already a level 3 Lantern, the Lantern Name, and Velvet herself. We do not need a forth person that can cast Refection of the Tapestry
 
Venerable Ro said:
Alright, so here's my argument for how befriending a bunch of semi-random ponies can advance our eldritch goals. Thanks to our Bureau policy decisions our organizational integrity is beyond reproach, and also rather difficult to insult Lore into as a one-and-done. So I was thinking that when the question of workplace/organization culture inevitably comes up we could use lessons garnered from our potential-but-not-yet-Initiated Good Friends to set things up for natural development.

Take Cheerilee for example, that talk we had with her way back when that touched on her indefatigable approach to paperwork strongly suggests (to me anyway) an affinity for Heart. Retelling that story and transplanting that scrap of philosophy to our work culture could prepare the Bureau for Heart-related Lores or revelations without it being a shock, and more importantly, without us ever actually saying anything questionable.

"Oh that? I had it from a good friend of mine back in ponyville. Harmony knows I've had to do more than my fair share of paperwork in my time, so the idea rather struck me as a better way to look at it."

Same thought goes for Applejack's nascent Forge philosophy, and the others. Might be a little, methodical, but I think it wouldn't be near as volatile as trying to raid someone and hoping our people are willing to figure things out cold-turkey. Heck, could even use the raid on the evil!cult as a revelation and a ideological shoring-up, delineating between proper homegrown Equestrian values and those twisted perversions we nobly stand against.
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We don't need our people to be willing to figure things out cold-turkey.
We can order them to try. And we can support them in the analysis (~[commissioner] Get your hoofs dirty action).
Since we are capable of extracting scraps from books and can recognize Lore books, we can get a scrap if they have a Lorebook (and if they don't we'd plant one in the "destroy evidence linking to Velvet"-raid).
So we'd have an initial success, we'd have a reason for the Bureau to investigate and need to learn about the Lores (Mareinette drained corpses to look like Changelings were involved with the enemy cult). And the more we learn about the Lores in the Bureau, the more we'd have evidence of the Lores being useful and maybe even necessary to fight changelings and other such threats.
BirdBodhisattva said:
-[] [COMMISSIONER] Get your hoofs dirty. (Participate in the "Investigators" actions. And join the "Constables" in a raid/Expedition, if they are ordered to do a raid/Expedition)
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Earth-Destroyer said:
Personally I do not see the point of going for Twilight anymore that the definition of sunk cost fallacy. We had our chance to get her on side by both choice and chance, and chose wrong on the first one, and got unlucky on the second one.

Even aside from that We know Twilight is a lantern main, which is just not useful to us. We have Jade already a level 3 Lantern, the Lantern Name, and Velvet herself. We do not need a forth person that can cast Refection of the Tapestry
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Because you're approaching this from a mechanical standpoint and I'm more interested in it from a narrative point and I think a lot of voters feel that way. Also your mechanical arguments about saving AP aren't as compelling when I don't think we'll be able to utilize them effectively when we have other more important things to focus on. If it does work, I think you're discounting how useful Twilight is considering her connections to Harmony and lots of other important ponies.
 
Vote as it stands. I'm meh on the twilight thing, but the top 3 look pretty solid and the two things I care most about are in the top so whatever.
Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on Jan 13, 2024 at 7:57 PM, finished with 268 posts and 48 votes.
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[x] "I would be honored to be the maid of honor." (Become closer to Cadance)
[X] You will spend a long time with Cadance. Whisper a few Lore-secrets, here and there. (???)
[X] "Your dress is good. But it could be better. I know a mare..." (Involve Rarity in dressmaking. Applies Rarity's Lore levels)
[x] "Cadance, both you and Shining sent invitations to Twilight. But maybe we should… check on her in person?" (???)
 
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