Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

Kaelor said:
PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.
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(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)
 
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[] "I would be honored to be the maid of honor." (Become closer to Cadance)
[] "Cadance, both you and Shining sent invitations to Twilight. But maybe we should… check on her in person?" (???)

Currently Tied in my mind
[] "But none of them are nobles. Are you sure I can invite them?" (Increase all non-locked ponies in your Contacts list to Good Friends)
[] "Cadance, what do you mean keep the change? What do you mean that I should keep the change?! " (Gain 500 bits)

@BirdBodhisattva I assume we don't need to take the "Invite Velvet family" for our actual family to be invited to the wedding right? Stormchaser and the girls can be there without that?
 
@Earth-Destroyer I appreciate the response. My specific thoughts are below. But in general, I really think:

1) The benefits from these confidants aren't that large. Especially before they have lore levels!
2) Any benefits will take a while to accrue. A turn (or multiple) to actually make these good friends confidants, a turn to introduce them to the lore, a turn for them to become more than lore 0... Benefits now are more valuable than benefits later.

Venerable Ro said:
If only because this lot will never do it otherwise and we really ought to avoid letting non-family links stagnate.
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Can you provide more detail on why you think we ought to avoid that? (I really do feel like I'm missing something!) I feel we're playing a much bigger game -- with the Glory so close, as director of the Lunar Bureau -- than we were ~at the start of the quest... It makes sense for things that were important then to be less so now?

NMS said:
The more Outsiders we can get reaching for the Glory, the more likely one is to open the way?
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Not clear that Cadance is an Outsider, bte. The Master said something about natural alicorns being empowered by glory all the way back when choosing the time period.

Earth-Destroyer said:
Cherrilee, setup up ground work for teach the lores to the masses safely. Applejack will be a forge pony able to start construction of proper lore defenses for the Estate. As well has head up town infrastructure projects with a little lore backing. And Filthy Rich names says it all, an easy supply of bits so we can finally cross that issue off the table permanently.
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I don't find this particularly convincing. It's an action to get these people to Confidant, an action to introduce them to the lores, an action (that yes they can do themselves) to get them to more than Lore 0. Those benefits are so far off. And how big are the benefits?

1) We're not mass teaching lores for ages.

2) Forge-wards would be nice. But I can't see how they would provide anywhere close to as much defenses as, say, a Mare in the Light.

3) We're never going to cross the issue of bits off. Ever. They're an intended limiter on what we can do, much the same way AP is. Plus, confidant doesn't mean we can just throw his fortune around. While I think Filthy Rich will help, even if it's 100 bits/turn... That takes 6 turns to be better than the bits, and might never be better because we can get him to Confidant in that time span without this! (We have that free social action, plus Mareinette if we'd like).
Earth-Destroyer said:
Also we are going to start firing off expeditions for the Level 6 artifacts soon, and every artifact acquired basically allows or confidants to cast a different ritual with a good success rate themselves.
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Aside from time issues, I don't think it'd be this clean. Rituals have high DCs and all require at least two lores. (And they cost bits!)
Earth-Destroyer said:
Also do not underestimate the throw massive number of dice at a problem solution. Having 5 confidants means we can have up to 5 different people roll to complete at task, even a low odds tasks 1 of them is almost certainly going to succeed.
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I dont think the problems we face can be addressed like that. It might work for certain actions like book or expedition searching. But there's narrative and bit limitations. I think of the last few turns, and I can't think of any actions we could have just tossed a bunch of people at?
 
lurker9875 said:
@BirdBodhisattva do we know which Cadance option is more likely to have us safely heal our Malus in the near future?

Additionally, by Confidante mechanics, even if the Confidante in question is a Alicorn, can we automatically induct her into the Lores w/o consequence?

If the answer to the second question is Yes, is there a difference between doing that, and inducting her into the Lores now?
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Well Cadance is undoubtedly Heart/?, teaching her now would probably add a minor Lore influence to her during the preparations and the Wedding itself, some sort of subtle enlightenment buggery. Cadance is already, excited, what would hopping her up on Heart do?

spiderhellian said:
Can you provide more detail on why you think we ought to avoid that? (I really do feel like I'm missing something!) I feel we're playing a much bigger game -- with the Glory so close, as director of the Lunar Bureau -- than we were ~at the start of the quest... It makes sense for things that were important then to be less so now?
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People who like us will favor us given the choice, people who really like us may do nice things for us of their own volition. And people we ignore outright despite meeting on good terms may eventually develop reasons to dislike or even hate us and do things ranging from feeding social attacks to repeatedly casting The End Is Beautiful at us.

Doing this would get pretty much every major figure in our hometown firmly on our side in one fell swoop and cement our domestic position. Remember, Velvet Pride is theoretically supposed to be supplanting our position as the local representative of the family, and he was considering social pressure to do it. This would dump an ungodly malus on any attempts he might take at making our life difficult.
 
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spiderhellian said:
Aside from time issues, I don't think it'd be this clean. Rituals have high DCs and all require at least two lores. (And they cost bits!)
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To be entirely fair, if ED is operating under the assumption of lots of Level 6 artifacts, it really isn't very hard to manage. Between the +60, +10 from presumably average magic, and a Level 3 reagent for +30, pretty much anyone can match almost any DC. The only ones that can't just be bulldozed with that alone are summonings, and aside from the now unusable Marinette summoning, the extra reagent space means they could still easily match the required boosts. At which point it's just a question of not rolling a nat1.
Venerable Ro said:
Well Cadance is undoubtedly Heart/?, teaching her now would probably add a minor Lore influence to her during the preparations and the Wedding itself, some sort of subtle enlightenment buggery. Cadance is already, excited, what would hopping her up on Heart do?
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Grail. Bird has said before that the closest Lore to Love is Grail. I wouldn't be surprised if she's Heart as well, but if Cadence has any Lore affinity at all, it is without a doubt Grail.
 
[] "I would be honored to be the maid of honor." (Become closer to Cadance)
Get that rank up! I could take or leave this one but it's tempting.

[X] "Cadance, both you and Shining sent invitations to Twilight. But maybe we should… check on her in person?" (???)
If it can't be negative then yes go check on her for goodness sakes! Even if Twi will still hates Velvet afterwards, she won't feel so alone. And with the sheer love Candance is radiating, it should cheer up Twi quite a bit! Emotional support is what she needs right now.

[X] "Your dress is good. But it could be better. I know a mare..." (Involve Rarity in dressmaking. Applies Rarity's Lore levels)
She was just made a disciple, go go go! This is Rarity's biggest break!

[X] "But none of them are nobles. Are you sure I can invite them?" (Increase all non-locked ponies in your Contacts list to Good Friends)
Aside from saving a ton of turns spent getting them all up to speed, there is every chance Velvet will bump into Rainbow Dash during the Cloudsdale visit. If so, then this could get her and AJ to Good Friends status. Collect them all! Then they'll be just a bit under where Fluttershy is and only need a little push. This in combination with Candance seeing Twi might unite the core canon cast in one go for the first time in this entire quest. (Because face it, Pinky will not be denied being at The Party of the millennium.)

[] "What do you mean you want a traditional wedding? Cadance, you are literally writing tradition right now. You are a Princess for-…! Alright, fine, I'll check the Royal Archives." (WRITE IN Lore / ???)
This one is interesting. No negatives... No idea what this'll do. A book, invoke lore in the wedding and expose others to that specific lore, or maybe add flavor text and a scrap. Who's to say?

Going with choices 2-4 here. Seems like a decent combination of saving turns, helping Twi somehow, and making use of Rarity's new Lore levels. Yes being the maid of honor would heighten Velvet's standing with her, but there'll be other chances of raising that friend level. Velvet is Cadance's best friend. That's a pretty important claim already. Getting money is also tempting, but saving future AP and getting more bits with Rarity every turn by virtue of being The Royal Dressmaker with her increased Lore levels sounds like a better investment imo.
 
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Ericwinter said:
Grail. Bird has said before that the closest Lore to Love is Grail. I wouldn't be surprised if she's Heart as well, but if Cadence has any Lore affinity at all, it is without a doubt Grail.
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Fair enough, memory is as memory does. So Grail-buzzed Cadance dealing with wedding preparations and then her wedding day. Sounds like fun, but I'd rather see her as a confidante first and then try teaching her summat when things aren't so chaotic.

Besides, it's a wedding! We can't deny Velvet the opportunity to be Maid of Honor, it's a once-in-a-Quest opportunity!
 
Wait a second. @BirdBodhisattva , wouldn't any books in the Royal Archives have already been read, and thus not useable for Baldomare gifting?

Also we definitely should not spill spooky lore things to Cadance yet. We need to be absolutely certain that she is more loyal to us than to Celestia before we do anything involving the spooky majicks around her, for we are not Names who can just get away with eldritch bullshit by virtue of being Names.
 
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What point is there in revealing the Lores to Cadance without having her on our side? Like we can probably get away with Lore lvl 0 and 1 as her good friend but above that? Confidant minimum if not weakening her relationship with Celestia too. We can't launder them through her as until we find a way to have them be organically introduced to Celestia and the Bureau any other path gets us burnt to a crisp. The only thing making Cadance aware of the Lores does is making her a low level adept. Useless.

Regardless my picks:
[] "I would be honored to be the maid of honor." (Become closer to Cadance)

[] "Your dress is good. But it could be better. I know a mare..." (Involve Rarity in dressmaking. Applies Rarity's Lore levels)

[] Are they a couple? Are they just friends? You don't really know what Comet Feet and Fluttershy are. But ever since you invited them to the wedding, Fluttershy has been having… ideas. (???)

[] "But none of them are nobles. Are you sure I can invite them?" (Increase all non-locked ponies in your Contacts list to Good Friends)

[] "Cadance, both you and Shining sent invitations to Twilight. But maybe we should… check on her in person?" (???)

[] "Cadance, what do you mean keep the change? What do you mean that I should keep the change?! " (Gain 500 bits)

[] "What do you mean you want a traditional wedding? Cadance, you are literally writing tradition right now. You are a Princess for-…! Alright, fine, I'll check the Royal Archives." (WRITE IN Lore / ???)
 
Iustus Vitae said:
The only thing making Cadance aware of the Lores does is making her a low level adept.
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We might be able to get her to discover the rituals on our behalf, which is the biggest thing we need the Lores laundered for?

Besides, maybe Cadance can research the Lores on her own and pitch to Celestia accordingly, and have the first impression be a positive one?

(Also, you need to specify a Lore for the Wedding Pick?)
 
Iustus Vitae said:
[] "What do you mean you want a traditional wedding? Cadance, you are literally writing tradition right now. You are a Princess for-…! Alright, fine, I'll check the Royal Archives." (WRITE IN Lore / ???)
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It occurs to me that whatever book we dig out, Cadance is going to want to use in the wedding. And if people are hoping to use it to give to Baldomare, we wouldn't be able to read it ourselves, and that would mean handing off a (theoretically) level 5-6+ lore book to Cadance to incorporate into the ceremony sight unseen. And we wouldn't be able to discuss it with her, because we had not and could not read it.

And then we'd have to ask for it back, and keep it (because we want to give it to Baldomare) instead of returning it to the Archive.
 
Ericwinter said:
…Okay, I hadn't actually known about that, but looking it up, no, you are severely misrepresenting what happened. In fact, it seems to have been buffed, since it couldn't fuck with Planeswalkers before.

But this isn't really the time or place for that argument. The original point was while the Oil corrupts your mind and turns you into a slavishly loyal minion—and removing your soul, or something—Worm possession forces you to endure a state of constantly dying but never quite finishing. Which, uh…

Well. They're both really fucking shitty things to happen, and while on a moral level I find the mind control more repugnant, the possession is probably less pleasant to actually experience.
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Okay, I've gotta jump in real fast. I know I'm, like, four pages and an update late, but I was at D&D and New Phyrexia's symbol is tattooed on my arm, so I've got to say something.

Old Phyrexia and New Phyrexia are completely different things, both at this point in the lore and even before March of the Machines. In the time of the Brother's War, Yawgmoth (Phyrexia's creator-god) was still alive and actively administering pretty much everything about Phyrexian society. The oil was horrific, but just another tool in the arsenal of a man so powerful Magic: The Gathering refuses to print a card that represents his power in his Phyrexian form. It got him sleeper agents loyal to the cause, and it messed them up but not usually to the degree that we'll see later on.

New Phyrexia? Yes, Glistening Oil is worse because they made it basically Phyrexia's entire multi-plane nerve system, and thus a huge point of failure if anything were to happen to New Phyrexia itself. However, Jin-Gitaxias is responsible for some truly horrific transformations, and for those sensitive to the uncanny valley, Elesh Norn made some messed up stuff too. Worms infest you and make you suffer because that's all they know how to do, the Progress Engine will tear you apart because they needed more test subjects, and the Machine Orthodoxy will ossify you because the Mother of Machines decided her chair was a bit unbalanced aesthetically.

Dumberfluff said:
Yeah, Phyrexian oil is kind of weird in the lore. They brought it back for a recent set, but kind of nerfed it in the story to save time. The modern phyrexian oil is horrible, but not really that bad. The worst thing it did was make Nissa bald, and kill a bunch of no-name planeswalkers. It was also beaten with a random deus ex machina after it had spread across the entire multiverse. In the old school books on the other hand, phyrexian oil was nightmares incarnate. A single drop of the stuff was enough to corrupt entire worlds in a couple of months, and they did not hold back on the body horror in the art or the descriptions.
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Also, no-name planeswalker? Tamiyo sealed Emrakul into Innistrad's moon, that's kind of a big thing.

Alright. Sorry, had to get that off my chest (or arm, as the case may be), I'll read the update now.
 
Pulling Twilight in might help not just her but Cadence and Shining Armor as well.

And we are the reason shining doesn't know her status already.

BirdBodhisattva said:
His horn flares up! The old pony's horn lights up with magic, and in one quick motion his beard, scarf, and everything else covering his face is floated away. Revealing to you the pony under all of that.

"Uncle Steppes!" and you jump out of your seat in excitement the moment you recognize him!
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Also Uncle Steppes is fucking awesome.

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@BirdBodhisattva I am shocked that we can keep the names from Attending. She may be a wretched Outsider? (Or she is maybe a wretched outsider.) But ah I digress.

What would we have to give to have Illiopony show up. :cry2: pleeeaaaasseeeee
 
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Iustus Vitae said:
What point is there in revealing the Lores to Cadance without having her on our side? Like we can probably get away with Lore lvl 0 and 1 as her good friend but above that? Confidant minimum if not weakening her relationship with Celestia too. We can't launder them through her as until we find a way to have them be organically introduced to Celestia and the Bureau any other path gets us burnt to a crisp. The only thing making Cadance aware of the Lores does is making her a low level adept. Useless.
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You may be forgetting that Celestia does not actually know about Velvet's scar, only Cadance does. The issue with healing it is that if Cadance notices—which she will—and has not yet been introduced to the Lores without turning on us, she'll start to question how and that leads to discovering the Lores in a bad way.

If, however, she accepts Velvet's knowledge of the Lores and does not turn Velvet in over it, we become free to remove the scar. Which, given we've had people actively trying to kill us, is kinda a big concern unless we can very quickly murk Copper and her pet Name. We don't actually need to launder the Lores, just get her to not turn us in when we use them.

And, notably, we've been assured that this will not be a net negative.
 
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Being a sock puppet for Emrakul and surviving is pretty impressive still but not up there with planeswalker legends.

Ericwinter said:
If, however, she accepts Velvet's knowledge of the Lores and does not turn Velvet in over it, we become free to remove the scar. Which, given we've had people actively trying to kill us, is kinda a big concern unless we can very quickly murk Copper and her pet Name. We don't actually need to launder the Lores, just get her to not turn us in when we use them.
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Why heal our scar when we can summon Biedde?
 
zxzx24 said:
Why heal our scar when we can summon Biedde?
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Biedde can't protect us from everything. It would certainly be very difficult to get past him, moreso with Marinette and DoA as well, and as long as we're smart with our keys rituals aren't a danger, but we're not invulnerable even then. Especially if we keep exploring the Mansus, which we almost certainly will. Names can't protect us there. Also we'll finally learn about Velvet's trauma.

Now, I'm not advocating for the option, simply pointing out that calling it useless is not actually true.
 
zxzx24 said:
Why heal our scar when we can summon Biedde?
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Extra point of health has wider field of applications and less maintanance.
But those are not mutually exclusive
Spector29 said:
the Progress Engine will tear you apart because they needed more test subjects, and the Machine Orthodoxy will ossify you because the Mother of Machines decided her chair was a bit unbalanced aesthetically.
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Awww, Machine Orthodoxy will make YOU better and Progress Engine could use YOUR help to help EVERYONE be better.
That said, my original comm was more in line that New Phyrexia could totally be reworked to fit into CS setting and be more natural and no less horrifying for that. And Velvet totally is in position to try that, because of her familiarity with wide range of Lores. Could make for an interesting apocrypha ending.
 
lurker9875 said:
We might be able to get her to discover the rituals on our behalf, which is the biggest thing we need the Lores laundered for?

Besides, maybe Cadance can research the Lores on her own and pitch to Celestia accordingly, and have the first impression be a positive one?

(Also, you need to specify a Lore for the Wedding Pick?)
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And how is she going to do that? If you remember we got the rituals from Master, the Mansus and one Jade made and in all cases the parties knew what they were doing and merely knowing the Lores exist isn't enough you need the circles. You need to pass the White Door for the two circles and the Branding Door for the three circles. Us teaching them to her is beyond the scope of the vote and Celestia literally has a team of egg heads working on discovering the Lores. Cadance putting in an AP every other turn if that isn't going to out pace them. Plus we may even get them laundered ourselves way before Cadance ever gets around to it. This option only teaches Cadance of the Lores and so is useless in the wider scheme of things when compared to other things on offer.

As for the book I'd say SH so no one here is tempted to read it.

Ericwinter said:
You may be forgetting that Celestia does not actually know about Velvet's scar, only Cadance does. The issue with healing it is that if Cadance notices—which she will—and has not yet been introduced to the Lores without turning on us, she'll start to question how and that leads to discovering the Lores in a bad way.

If, however, she accepts Velvet's knowledge of the Lores and does not turn Velvet in over it, we become free to remove the scar. Which, given we've had people actively trying to kill us, is kinda a big concern unless we can very quickly murk Copper and her pet Name. We don't actually need to launder the Lores, just get her to not turn us in when we use them.
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Yeah no I don't see it. The Lores are magic all ponies can do, powerful esoteric stuff especially if they can heal a long scarred over wound. They are exactly the kind of thing Celestia wants and even if she doesn't Cadance will want them spread because imagine the good they can do. Then we say no and she asks why not. I hope you can see why shit gets awkward then.

Without Cadance being a Confidant minimum (I'd hope she trusts us more then Celestia too when we reveal them to her in such a manner) all I can see Velvet do is teach Cadance like she did Selene and Silky. They aren't aware of them, don't call on them in an overt manner. It's just a trait that adds a plus to your rolls.
 
Ericwinter said:
Biedde can't protect us from everything. It would certainly be very difficult to get past him, moreso with Marinette and DoA as well, and as long as we're smart with our keys rituals aren't a danger, but we're not invulnerable even then. Especially if we keep exploring the Mansus, which we almost certainly will. Names can't protect us there. Also we'll finally learn about Velvet's trauma.
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I put Bieddes ability to protect Velvet over Velvets ability to protect Velvet. But fair.

Do we need the bits? We should be able to summon biedde next turn and we just got an extra 100 for the daughter of Axes yes?

We gonna buy another artifact :V
 
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