Shards of a Broken Sun [Megaten/Shugo Chara/Exalted]

Uh, isn't a Calcinator in Alchemy used to reduce something to ash in order to extract its essence(which IRL usually turned out to be some mineral salts which could be dissolved and percipitated from the ash)?
I might as well note, it's only centred on Japan. Some of the lines run through France.
If I had to take a guess, this is where the SMT3: Nocturne stuff starts coming in.

In SMT3, the entire world gets destroyed in an event called Conception, except for Tokyo which gets turned into a pocket-dimension-like place called the Vortex World. It was triggered by a CEO-by-day-insane-cultist-by-night named Hikawa, who used demon summonings and blood sacrifices fed to the demons to do it. In the old version of this quest, a Solar-Exalted Amu was able to partially block Conception when it was triggered with the help of JP's, in one of (what I personally thought was) the greatest highlight scenes in that story.

Here, it's probably a while away from happening. I'm guessing he's still in the whole demon-blood-sacrifice part of the thing. And JP's is only just picking up on all the demons he's summoning.
 
EDIT: .....How likely is it that if we were to suggest to Naomi that Seiyo Academy offers an excellent education with many security benefits, that a member of the Scavengers would be likely to transfer in and notice anything odd about Amu's classmates that she herself might miss?
Convincing Naomi of that, or that "transferring" is even an option, would be hell. But if you succeed, then the most likely "transfer student"—for a variety of reasons—would be Kana.

Kana habitually rifles through the minds of everyone nearby, just in case. Amu does not.

EDIT: I have no idea if the Weblio article on it is trustworthy, but if you believe what it says, Seiyo goes all the way up to university level :o.
......I guess that justifies how they can afford having a huge ass castle as part of their campus?
It's convenient for me, and I suppose I probably misremembered, so, sure! Seiyo is now a…

Gigantic psionic plot, let's be honest, considering their headmaster.

But also, escalator school.
 
Convincing Naomi of that, or that "transferring" is even an option, would be hell. But if you succeed, then the most likely "transfer student"—for a variety of reasons—would be Kana.
Eh, thought there might've been a faint chance of it due to Naomi's insistence on her kids doing homework and learning things. I assume the only way to halfway convince her of the security would be if Amu could somehow get a meeting set up between her and Tsukasa. Though that would probably take a continuous negotiation to deliver and not be something possible to achieve in a single sit-down.

And it would probably be better to bring up with him first rather than Naomi, as he'd be the one in charge of the security arrangements and actually knows what they are. I figure there almost certainly have to be some in place, given the presence of bigshot VIPs like Hikaru in attendence (and I doubt Rima's parents would've sent her there without assurances given her previous circumstances), but something makes me doubt how aware Amu would be of them exactly.

And I also do agree with the people saying we perhaps ought to have more credit with them before attempting any sort of persuasion.

So I guess I'll throw in for the dealer's choice too. Not just because I'm curious, but because whatever happens at her school, there's at least still Kukai and co. to deal with it there who will presumably alert Amu if things get too out of hand. Meanwhile, we know for a fact that dead bodies crop up when the Scavengers get left to their own devices.

[X] Something unexpected happens
 
So there's JP's, the clock is ticking.

[X] Amu, while getting to know her classmates, discovers something odd

So there's something maybe going on at the school, I guess we are picking when we might get involved?
 
[x] Amu, while getting to know her classmates, discovers something odd.
 
[X] Write-in Amu, while getting to know her classmates, discovers something odd and then tells Lulu about it in a follow-up phone call, also she tries to ask if anything dangerous can come out of dreams. And if there is any way Ami could be safer aside of her being there at all times to keep an eye on her.


Considering how the talk with Lulu went, we really need to escalate our interactions with her as fast as possible. Clearly she is a person who can get us sopme influence and leverage on people that matter. Especially in regards with JP, we could possible even avoid Amu not getting totally surprised by them and what they're up to.

Not only that but considering how dire the straits Yui seems to be in, being to scared to even sleep, we really need to accelerate the process to find a solution for her. Else she... and possibly Ami later on could be in big trouble. And considering Lulu can make some tools from gems, and probably knows some other experts, this is probably the quickest and most likely way to get results.

And from the three options given, having a classmate with something odd about them would give Amu cause to talk with Lulu more quickly again, especially when she's already pressing Amu to call her over any little strange thing happening with Ami. Which also gives cause to ask about the dream issue more now that she's also seen Yui, a person with similar power who is clearly well beyond just a few small weird things.

If we don't get on this, I'm quite concerned things might take a turn for the worst, there's even a risk Yui or maybe even Ami could die.


As a last side benefit, this can help to build credibility with Naomi. As in, if one can find something that helps Yui, then your contacts are of some value. And you didn't give anything away, because you asked for this help for your sister. It's just that it then allows you to hopefully help Yui as well. Thus showing you can properly keep the secret and still get results.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Skelm on Nov 6, 2023 at 11:22 PM, finished with 25 posts and 14 votes.


Right-o. Looks... nearly tied. If anyone wants to change their vote, this would be the time to do it.
 
Troubling, personally I think my vote is far better then the two standard ones, but it doesn't seem to be getting much interest from anyone else so far...


[x] Amu, while getting to know her classmates, discovers something odd.
 
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From what I can tell, your write-in is effectively picking 2 things at once - both the classmates option AND the fourth option (the custom write-in) where you're suggesting to call back Lulu and ask her about the potential danger of dreams.

The impression I got was that we could only pick one choice, because Amu can only focus on one thing at a time and can't split attention between both investigating dangerous dreams and investigating odd classmates.

If she could, I would vote for both option 1 and 3 at the same time.
 
From what I can tell, your write-in is effectively picking 2 things at once - both the classmates option AND the fourth option (the custom write-in) where you're suggesting to call back Lulu and ask her about the potential danger of dreams.

The impression I got was that we could only pick one choice, because Amu can only focus on one thing at a time and can't split attention between both investigating dangerous dreams and investigating odd classmates.

If she could, I would vote for both option 1 and 3 at the same time.
I checked with @Baughn and so far I know it is valid. In part probably because I'm not investigating dangerous dreams really, I'm basically instead getting Lulu more involved in helping do that for us.
 
I checked with @Baughn and so far I know it is valid. In part probably because I'm not investigating dangerous dreams really, I'm basically instead getting Lulu more involved in helping do that for us.
Heh, that was kinda what I was aiming for on the last round of voting, with my write-in on directly querying Lulu about evil government organizations.

People evidently weren't keen on the notion of immediately bringing her in then, despite us also getting told that Lulu was going to stick her nose in regardless of the vote. I get a feeling we might need to let the plot cook for a little bit longer, before the idea of adding more Lulu becomes palatable enough for people to vote for.
 
Lulu's your friend. She'd be a poor friend if she wasn't concerned with what Amu is up to, especially considering their backstory. She is not, however, a mind-reader. Not even if she's in the same room as you, which she's not...

Lulu is likely to 'stick her nose in' one way or the other, but right now she's also busy with more important things. You-- Amu, that is-- is...

Amu is important to her. A critically important friend, actually, and unlike her cousin... Lulu isn't ever going to ignore that. If she thought you were in serious danger, she'd... well, it depends. "Be in a lot of pain", possibly, because I think you can already guess what she's working on now. Some of it, at least.

When it comes to composite votes, my thoughts on that sum up as...
  • If it's two things that would otherwise be separate votes entirely: No, you usually can't do them both. You can suggest it, and should in that case ping me, but I'll usually veto it; Amu doesn't have infinite time, and also it's likely to make the story worse. Or at least it'll make it go longer before a vote, and the chapters are already about as long as I want them.

  • If it's an expansion on an existing vote, i.e. "Do this, in this specific manner", then I'll usually allow it. I'll put my foot down on foot-long votes with multiple subclauses; that restricts my writing too much, and is better handled by interrupts to give you a second vote. But if it's just tweaking the exact approach, that's fine.

  • If it's "do this, then do that other thing", where 'this' leads naturally into 'that', then I'm inclined to allow it so long as the chapter doesn't get too long, and may ignore the second clause if it turns out that it does. That describes Quickshot's vote fairly well, I think. If it had won, then I'd have considered how much I've already written when time comes to call Lulu; and if it was already in the 3-4k regime, then I'd skip the phone call and offer it as a voting option.

    It's just a way to prevent overly short chapters, though most of the time, if I feel that is a danger I'll probably just give you a mult-task vote instead.
 
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......Just out of interest, on the subject of Amu being in serious danger, how effective would you say Amu's raw telekinesis might be against low-level demons, something like a Jack Frost?

That talk with Lulu indicated that, while Amu's fine control might be lacking, she can presently do "big stuff" just fine. How big exactly are we talking when she says "big"? Big like a basketball, as opposed to a tennis ball? Or big like a person, as opposed to a football?

Or big like a car?
 
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Heh, that was kinda what I was aiming for on the last round of voting, with my write-in on directly querying Lulu about evil government organizations.

People evidently weren't keen on the notion of immediately bringing her in then, despite us also getting told that Lulu was going to stick her nose in regardless of the vote. I get a feeling we might need to let the plot cook for a little bit longer, before the idea of adding more Lulu becomes palatable enough for people to vote for.
I'm not entirely sure why people are taking the options they are either, yeah.

Personally I'd prefer not going slow... I don't think plot development is going to be slow, an end of the world scenario is approaching rapidly after all. And with a triple bane problems, things will surely be coming at us more rapidly yet. So us not getting an extra ally to help is probably going to hurt quite a bit, as that's one less person to help offset some of it at least.

Still the vote is as it is I guess.
 
Demons aren’t that simple
......Just out of interest, on the subject of Amu being in serious danger, how effective would you say Amu's raw telekinesis might be against low-level demons, something like a Jack Frost?

That talk with Lulu indicated that, while Amu's fine control might be lacking, she can presently do "big stuff" just fine. How big exactly are we talking when she says "big"? Big like a basketball, as opposed to a tennis ball? Or big like a person, as opposed to football?

Or big like a car?
In the second half of the manga, she telekinetically lifts a broken helicopter and soft-lands it on the roof of a highrise building. While flying. Utau helped with that, but at least fifty percent was Amu, and she's only gotten better since.

The feats of telekinesis shown in Shugo Chara are actually fairly impressive, when you step back and think about it. We've got:

- The charas are capable of lifting and moving objects, with somewhat outsize strength for their size. Not that impressive, but they're psionic projections themselves. Amu inherited the ability, though she's not as good at fine control as Ran or Su would have been.

- Since you mention a football: Kukai, at one point, kicks a football hard enough to do... implausible things. So does Amu. The football match between the two is the sort that makes it very clear they aren't using muscles for most of it, and their poor classmates basically have to vacate the war-zone. One of them attempts to catch one of Amu's balls, only to find that it keeps spinning in his hands, in fact speeding up until he loses his grip. This is fairly early in the story.

- The aforementioned helicopter incident. Roughly in the middle. IIRC this is approximately when Utau hits her lowest point, so I doubt she was all that effective; it's probably mostly Amu.

- Yaya got slammed into a metal lamp post towards the end, hard enough to leave an indentation. Score one for the otherwise least effective psionic in the group; she's very hard to hurt. She's also the one to stop a rottweiler later on, and though she stops it by using UMI to make it fall asleep (...and accidentally hits herself as well), it tried (and fails) to bite her, first.

- Tadase's "holy crown" is an area defence that did, at one point, bounce an entire truckload of freshly cut trees that were tumbling down a rather steep slope. Possibly saved Amu's life in doing so; certainly any non-psionic who was hit by that would be turned into tomato soup. They were fully grown, multi-ton trees, moving quickly. The same area defence was also shown to fully block the assault of a...

Has anyone here watched A Certain Scientific Railgun? Do you remember the AIM Burst incident from early in season one?

One of these. A semi-divine, if incoherent, chunk of pure destrudo collected from all the children in Tokyo. In Persona terms, a fragment of Nyarlathotep. It strained him, but he did repel it for long enough for others to deal with it. Tadase is almost 100% defence-specced, but he's good at that.

Shugo Chara is fundamentally a children's series, so the styling is more 'marshmallow man' than 'eldritch horror', but fundamentally it's the same thing.

- Later in the same arc, Amu was trapped in the basement of a collapsing highrise... the same one from earlier, I think. She survived. It's unclear how much of that was Amu, how much was Hikaru and how much was uncontrolled psionic interactions, but it was clear enough that any big chunks of concrete falling towards either one of them triggers some sort of instinctive lashing-out.

It should also be clear that I'm taking the high end of what's plausible, rather than the low end. That's because I do need her to be somewhat effective in this scenario. Anyway...

......Just out of interest, on the subject of Amu being in serious danger, how effective would you say Amu's raw telekinesis might be against low-level demons, something like a Jack Frost?
I'm going to ignore Black Frost for this analysis, so let's consider this. "Jack Frost is a spirit originating from England. He is a snow elf who brings in cold weather during the winter and is thought to be responsible for the frost that forms on the windows of homes and buildings."

In other words, a fairy. In game terms he's a demon based around magic, with low physical parameters. In lore terms... he's the lesser dangers of cold. The fact that, even when winter is calm, if you're a careless child you can still easily die. Carefree and often considered neutral, because if you do take those precautions... then all Jack Frost does is paint pretty patterns on your windows. That, and he's a part of nature.

Of course the consequences are a little different if you call his attention to a specific point, but the point remains: Jack Frost wouldn't naturally aim to kill someone, he'll just do his thing, and if you get in his way and die... you should have known better. Sometimes, the thing you should have known better is "Don't get on the bad side of someone who can summon him".

= = =

Okay, so Amu.

Amu could easily scatter Jack Frost's body. It's a snowman, basically. Against someone capable of tossing high-speed chunks of concrete around, the force required to destroy one of those is more or less irrelevant, but... would that kill him?

In the game: Yes, none of the engines are capable of showing anything else, if you use enough force you'll break him apart.

In a story: I'm inclined to say no. You could destroy the snowman, sure, but Jack Frost isn't the snowman. It's the weather. The blizzard you're in. The cold snap that you didn't dress for. In Devil Survivors 2, demons are almost completely immune to physical attacks unless the attacker has Nicaea or an equivalent system installed, which Amu certainly does not--so it becomes a question of whether or not she can attack its real self, or at least defend.

Scattering the snowmen, I would say, does prevent it from throwing focused attacks against her... but still leaves the blizzard itself, and she can't attack that with telekinesis. She could possibly try mind-control... but Jack Frost is too alien for that to work, at least at first try.

On the other hand? Without said focused attacks -- which she could likely block anyway -- she's left with just the blizzard. And if the question is whether or not Amu can deal with a blizzard...

Her 'magical girl' form appears to completely cancel environmental conditions, as seen e.g. when she goes skiing in what amounts to a midriff-less cheerleader outfit. So, um, yes. She apparently can. She complained, to be sure, but she never seems to get cold.

...

I think it's a stalemate. Funnily enough, many of the stronger demons would be easier to deal with.
 
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Vote closed
The feats of telekinesis shown in Shugo Chara are actually fairly impressive, when you step back and think about it. We've got:
Thing is, most if not all of those were when Amu was using a Chara Change or Chara Transform (Kukai even points out that her using a Chara Change is cheating in a soccer match). The helicopter feat didn't just need a regular transform either, it needed Amulet Diamond for her to do it.

Meanwhile, the character sheet for this quest specifies the Humpty Lock is a special ability that tires her out. So I assume that means Amulet Diamond or even Amulet Heart can't just be pulled out of a hat anytime we need to throw a car at something. That we might only be able to use it once in a given fight, then we're screwed if the battle goes on too long or if it turns out there are back-to-back engagements with no rest.

When Amu was talking about her telekinesis to Lulu, I assumed she was referring to what she could now do without going Amulet Heart (and that using a Chara Transform would make it more powerful). Was that the right interpretation? Has Amu become powerful enough to toss chunks of concrete (or adult-sized bodies) around WITHOUT Amulet Heart? Or was she talking about what she could do at her absolute maximum, using the Humpty Lock?
In a story: I'm inclined to say no. You could destroy the snowman, sure, but Jack Frost isn't the snowman. It's the weather. The blizzard you're in. The cold snap that you didn't dress for.
........So essentially, effectiveness is going to differ on a demon-to-demon basis. And the demons written here might wind up being more esoteric than they're presented as in the games.

Huh.
 
Till next time!

For now, school plot school plot school plot
 
When Amu was talking about her telekinesis to Lulu, I assumed she was referring to what she could now do without going Amulet Heart (and that using a Chara Transform would make it more powerful). Was that the right interpretation? Has Amu become powerful enough to toss chunks of concrete (or adult-sized bodies) around WITHOUT Amulet Heart? Or was she talking about what she could do at her absolute maximum, using the Humpty Lock?
She was talking about what she can do without the lock. But she wasn't talking about throwing around chunks of concrete.

More concretely: Amu wasn't previously capable of using telekinesis consciously at all, except when using the Lock, though even without it she was using telekinesis a great deal subconsciously.

She's now learned to do it on purpose. But she has a habit of breaking small objects, and can't lift anything heavier than approximately a sofa. Which would tire her out. Given that Ran and Su no longer exist as distinct entities, in effect she's continuously under the effect of a Chara Change… minus the personality impact.

In a fight, yes, you'd be using her super mode. Almost guaranteed.

(In Academy City terms I suppose she's about level three? It's just that she's level three in about five distinct skills…)
 
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