Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

If we are talking about things, with the latest revelation that FCF is an afterlife, I think we should go straight to talking to Harry and Lash about possibility of exorcising her from Harry in FCF if she would accept our conditions.

That we might not have a 100% safe way for her to become her own person right now is immaterial, we can truthfully say that we will sooner or later, and can talk to Harry and her over that. And of course Lash can try an option we have right now if she judges it safe enough for herself.

Tentative plan, which would free Harry and get us a very useful knowledgeable minion (some parts copied from my earlier proposal about the same):

1. Get Harry to FCF to talk to him, under a suitable pretext or, if no pretext, just ask him we need to talk with him about something important in the safety of our soul (no, not about how much Molly loves him and wishes to ask him to be her consort to rule their Hell together :V).

2. Stack every advantage and buffs we have for upcoming talks, and, if there will be, any actions, including applicable excellencies and CCC and BSM in a standard way for -4 difficulty for everything.

3. Talk with Harry and, with his permission, with Lash, giving her a standing proposal of exorcising her from Harry.

Along the lines of:

"Harry, I can exorcise Lash from you, finally freeing you and making her her own person capable of living her own life. Sorry for don't telling you earlier, it was untested and I judged it not safe enough, believing in you and trusting you to be all right. Sorry for that. Now that we are in a better position, would you allow us three to talk about it to our mutual benefit?"

"Lash, after all these years it's self evident you are a person with your own free will and your own soul. You have of course your original purpose, but it is not necessary the only thing you can have in life; you are free to choose otherwise. As much as Harry is your prisoner, you are his, and I present an opportunity for you to eventually be free, though it naturally requires both of you to consent."

"Before anything else let me say this so that we may perfectly understand each other, I can't do anything disagreeable to you without risk to Harry's well-being, but I am capable of finding you wherever you may be and annihilating you utterly if ever your intentions would lead Harry to harm."

"I extend to you a standing proposal, with Harry consenting, work with me, and now or later ask me and I would exorcise you, releasing you to live your own life under my aegis however you see fit. Loyalty I will repay with protection, and doing my will would ease any pains your state may cause you. Harry, please let us, for your sake at least, if not for hers."

Lash's truthfullness can be judged with Crown used on the conversation situation, as confirmed by DP.

4. Exorcism options, as of now.

Exorcism option immediately, for Lash to judge if safe enough or not: just Sapphire Ritual of Exorcism. If after separation she would begin to die, she should do anything required to go to FCF as her afterlife and still incarnate there.

If taken, exorcism and any afterwards actions should use any applicable resources, material or personnel or whatever, that FCF may provide.

Exorcism option later, which as confirmed by DP would 100% work: Molly gets Devil Refining Cauldron (••••) charm, constructs a suitable body, excorcises and incarnates willing Lash in a ritual, essence cost would be covered by FCF essence regeneration, and any other FCF-available help would be used.

5. Why would Lash agree.

Lash has following main motivations throughout her existence:

a) The original one, from her originator, to seduce Harry to use her powers and the coin. This motivation is slowly diminishing.
b) Self-preservation.
c) The new one, self-actualization, slowly growing. In DF canon it finally leads her to sacrifice herself to protect Harry.

The proposal as outlined above works with all these motivations. It's obviously touches on self-actualization, offer of protection for loyalty touches on self-preservation, and even if, very much unlikely possibility, the offer is rejected in favor of the original motivation, it would actually still work for us by eroding the original motivation faster, whether just being at the back of Lash's mind all the time or actually causing her to increase intensity of her futile seduction efforts, speeding her up on her DF canon trajectory to self-actualization.
 
On another note, @DragonParadox, given that we now know that FCF is an afterlife, would giving Adam a better life after death would simply be a matter of locating him via Crown with one of his posessions, going there and taking him to FCF? Perhaps first asking him to keep his fealty and/or to accept Molly as his Goddess as prerequisite?

More specifically:

1. What does Molly knows IC on his/his soul whereabouts after his death?
2. Would it be valid to ask the Crown of his/his soul location through one of his former possessions?
3. Does Molly know if she can take a willing soul/spirit/whatever kind of free willed person with her to FCF from wherever, not just Earth reality?
4. If not, does she know what she and a soul/spirit/whatever kind of free willed person need to be able to do it?

Actually, given that a) Molly has recently acquired FCF and it was revealed that it is an afterlife, and that b) Adam was the first and as of now the only one who died for her and who she lost in her service, would it be reasonable for her to ask that Adam whereabouts Crown question without a vote? Or do we need to vote for it / for action including it?
 
On another note, @DragonParadox, given that we now know that FCF is an afterlife, would giving Adam a better life after death would simply be a matter of locating him via Crown with one of his posessions, going there and taking him to FCF? Perhaps first asking him to keep his fealty and/or to accept Molly as his Goddess as prerequisite?

More specifically:

1. What does Molly knows IC on his/his soul whereabouts after his death?
2. Would it be valid to ask the Crown of his/his soul location through one of his former possessions?
3. Does Molly know if she can take a willing soul/spirit/whatever kind of free willed person with her to FCF from wherever, not just Earth reality?
4. If not, does she know what she and a soul/spirit/whatever kind of free willed person need to be able to do it?

Actually, given that a) Molly has recently acquired FCF and it was revealed that it is an afterlife, and that b) Adam was the first and as of now the only one who died for her and who she lost in her service, would it be reasonable for her to ask that Adam whereabouts Crown question without a vote? Or do we need to vote for it / for action including it?
  1. She does not know anything about the whereabouts of Adam's soul at the moment
  2. She can ask that question yes
  3. If Molly has a claim on a soul she has a claim on a soul, it's just that she does not know if she had one on Adam. He did not seem to the worshiping her
  4. The question is momentous enough as a matter of character development that it should be voted on
 
[X] Yog

[X] Plan Good friends with Porter and Adam
-[X] Empathy and etiquette excellency, with BSM prep.
-[X] Wyrm-Train Abroad, you are sure you could get some engineseers from the Five Cities to make something truly revolutionary
-[X] Networked Spirits, Link him up with Iris, with cameras and drones
-[X] ---
-[X] Adam Crown question(s), using his former posessions.
--[X] Where is Adam?
--[X] If a 2nd focus is available, a 2nd question: How to get to where Adam is?


@Yog, might I interest you in adding Adam crown question(s) to your plan? It won't lose us anything, and it might get us something. Unless of there is no interest in Adam and his situation whatsoever, but even then it's an additional possible plotline which might become relevant and advantageous to follow in the future.
 
Oh yeah, it that exists, in a form that large numbers of people would believe in it would have its own kind of power.
And, I think, technically we would be the rightful holder, since as the Celestial Exalt, our claim to the Mandate of Heaven is at least as good as that of any Chinese government.
I don't think we should make it part of our fealty offer, but it would be interesting to get access to more wyrms. We should see if Porter has cousins looking for a job, or rivals we can beat up and compel to become his subordinates.

He's probably dragon enough that getting to loom over his former competitors would be a very satisfying job benefit, and while there are issues with that as a hiring policy it's less of one with properly managed spirits.
Offering to set him up with some small spirits (not wyrms, certainly) as retinue is an idea I like, but I'm not sure how to set it up.
If we are talking about things, with the latest revelation that FCF is an afterlife, I think we should go straight to talking to Harry and Lash about possibility of exorcising her from Harry in FCF if she would accept our conditions.
Remember - IC Lash is very much an enemy.
 
And, I think, technically we would be the rightful holder, since as the Celestial Exalt, our claim to the Mandate of Heaven is at least as good as that of any Chinese government.
It's really disputable. On the one hand, the Celestial Exalts did receive the Ruling Mandate from the gods, which is even more significant for the Infernals as they were the closest servants of the original bosses of Yu Shan. However, it's clear that the Heavens are not the same and the Earth is different, so I don't think that August Personage of Jade was keeping Exalted in mind while making the Seal.
 
All of that but also convincing Last Potter.
His name is just Porter, he lives in the Last Station.
If we are talking about things, with the latest revelation that FCF is an afterlife, I think we should go straight to talking to Harry and Lash about possibility of exorcising her from Harry in FCF if she would accept our conditions.
There are some problems with that.

On an IC level Molly has less reason to trust or wish Lash well than she has for people she's actually killed. She's been getting the danger of the fallen pounded into her head her entire life.

We also just got a warning about potential weird rule violations related to fallen in our hell. IC and OOC we have no way to tell if the shadow might trigger something.

Even if we did, Lash is still in her character development arc. She could very well get out and fall back on old habits.

Remember that she's the personality imprint of a horrific monster that has spent the last two thousand year inflicting atrocities on innocent people. The Lash we see is designed to be disarming and personable, but she didn't fully stop being that monster until near the end of her life.


Offering to set him up with some small spirits (not wyrms, certainly) as retinue is an idea I like, but I'm not sure how to set it up.
I don't think it's necessarily a magical process. If we set up a chain of command involving spirits they'd basically develop into a
retinue.

Our cyber devils probably can't change that way due to charm backed oaths, but if we beat/bribe locals into joining up I think it'd work.
 
And, I think, technically we would be the rightful holder, since as the Celestial Exalt, our claim to the Mandate of Heaven is at least as good as that of any Chinese government.

Offering to set him up with some small spirits (not wyrms, certainly) as retinue is an idea I like, but I'm not sure how to set it up.

Remember - IC Lash is very much an enemy.

Keep in mind that while the words 'the Mandate of Heaven' and 'the Creation Ruling Mandate' might sound similar and there might be some kind of connection there metaphysically in ways Molly does not presently understand they are not the same. The Second Age was a long, long, long time ago, before the world was round and spilling when it had five poles not two.
 
In herself, Lash is innocent of any particular crimes I could think off.
Certainly much more than the likes of Seeker or that Red Court team we let go in Michigan.

Just because she was created by a force of evil doesn't mean she wouldn't deserve a chance in Molly's eyes.
 
In herself, Lash is innocent of any particular crimes I could think off.
Certainly much more than the likes of Seeker or that Red Court team we let go in Michigan.

Just because she was created by a force of evil doesn't mean she wouldn't deserve a chance in Molly's eyes.
That doesn't change perception, Molly hasn't really made the distinction IC yet.

Responsibility is only part of the equation anyway. Regardless of her moral guilt or lack thereof up until the moment she chose to allow herself to change, to accept that she could be different and the love she's been slowly developing for Dresden, she would have deliberately pursued the agenda of her creator. The moment she died was the moment she stepped over the border into being different.

Redemption isn't any more final or inevitable than Damnation, and Lash isn't a good guy waiting to happen just because she ended up that way in the books.
 
Redemption isn't any more final or inevitable than Damnation, and Lash isn't a good guy waiting to happen just because she ended up that way in the books.
Probably true, but do you think being a voice in Harry's head is the best path for her, just because it was the canonical one?

Her being out would allow us to talk directly to her and it would give her an environment in which she can't only work towards her prime directive, corrupting Harry.

It would also lift the threat of "If Harry dies before taking up the Coin, I die" from her, which is definitly a good thing. Removing a motivator for her to do evil is important. If her own survival doesn't depend on manipulating Harry anymore she's another step removed from her task.
 
Probably true, but do you think being a voice in Harry's head is the best path for her, just because it was the canonical one?

Her being out would allow us to talk directly to her and it would give her an environment in which she can't only work towards her prime directive, corrupting Harry.

It would also lift the threat of "If Harry dies before taking up the Coin, I die" from her, which is definitly a good thing. Removing a motivator for her to do evil is important. If her own survival doesn't depend on manipulating Harry anymore she's another step removed from her task.
I'm not sure, but I'm reasonably confident that if you pop her out of his head while she's still in her Team Fallen spirit wear she's pretty likely to use what knowledge, power, and trust, she has to do something unpleasant. The factors that pushed her to be different wouldn't be present or apply to us if they were.

It's also worth noting that not being fallen grade evil isn't the same as being friendly or on our side.

Mab scores higher than Lasciel for all her faults and she's precisely as on our side as it's profitable and convenient for her to be. We didn't even see how Lash would interact with people other than the partner she would give her life for.

Don't let a vision of what she might have been mask what we're dealing with right now.
 
A question for those who are more familiar with Exalted canon-

If Molly brings the Naag into her Hell is it possible for him to absorb the latent Essence in the environment to gain power? He does something simular when on his own land so how likely do you think it is?
 
I'm not sure, but I'm reasonably confident that if you pop her out of his head while she's still in her Team Fallen spirit wear she's pretty likely to use what knowledge, power, and trust, she has to do something unpleasant. The factors that pushed her to be different wouldn't be present or apply to us if they were.

It's also worth noting that not being fallen grade evil isn't the same as being friendly or on our side.

Mab scores higher than Lasciel for all her faults and she's precisely as on our side as it's profitable and convenient for her to be. We didn't even see how Lash would interact with people other than the partner she would give her life for.

Don't let a vision of what she might have been mask what we're dealing with right now.
I mean, once she isn't something Lasciel will re-absorb the moment Dresden picks up the Coin, I expect a serious shift in priorities.
A selfish Lash would still be unlikely to side with her greater self when Molly with the spirit-killers is currently there and not trapped in a Coin.
 
IC Lash is very much an enemy
There are some problems with that.

On an IC level Molly has less reason to trust or wish Lash well than she has for people she's actually killed. She's been getting the danger of the fallen pounded into her head her entire life.

We also just got a warning about potential weird rule violations related to fallen in our hell. IC and OOC we have no way to tell if the shadow might trigger something.

Even if we did, Lash is still in her character development arc. She could very well get out and fall back on old habits.

Remember that she's the personality imprint of a horrific monster that has spent the last two thousand year inflicting atrocities on innocent people. The Lash we see is designed to be disarming and personable, but she didn't fully stop being that monster until near the end of her life.
Not an enemy, and opponent, with some opposing motivations (convincing/preventing Harry to use the coin) and some aligned (keeping Harry alive, letting her be free by letting Harry free), as demonstrated in our interactions with her in Arc 0 Post 14: The Devil Wears Better than Prada and after that. And if aligned motivations outweigh opposing, we can work together.

Accordingly, the reasons to trust her are that the truthfulness of what she says is verified by the Crown (which we know we can do) and that we can rely on her self-interest, when aligning with us gets her more than opposing us.

Lasciel, as in the original Fallen, is undeniably an enemy, though with all else being equal even she would be better redeemed, though of course in the current situation and very much probably in the future it's a pipe dream.

Lash, the shadow in Harry's head, is different, Molly long ago made that distinction as evidenced by her recent talk with Uriel. And I checked, there were no warnings about shadows of Fallen in our hell. There was a specific question, what would happen if one was exorcised in the FCF, and the answer was, Uriel does not know what would happen even in general, were the exorcism be performed and successful anywhere at all, not specifically our hell. We know that at least Devil Refining Cauldron method 100% works, Molly knows IC that charms work exactly as they should, always.

Now there was a warning, but it was in regards to specifically Ammorachius, the peril of an angel sword aligned with the White God in out hell. Complete opposite of the shadow of the Fallen.

And hey, in that same update there was a question about redeeming Yama Kings, that's an answer why would Molly even consider interacting with Lash. Like Artemis1992 said, Lash did relatively very small amount of evil throughout her existence, certainly in regards to Molly, and is obviously more deserving of redemption than this Yama King, or, more mundane examples, ghouls and vampires we've taken to our service, who have years of experience comitting atrocities.

And taking our offer would be conclusion of Lash's redemption arc. Slightly different than in DF canon, but no less final, not for love of Harry, but of need to be herself, but in both cases dropping her original motivation of convincing Harry to use the coin of her own free will. Again, we would use Crown to check if she really is truthful about dropping this matter, if she doesn't she doesn't get to work with us and get all good things she can get out of it, the main being self-actualization.

And don't think we can rely on DF canon to get to the kind of redemption she got in it, there's no telling what could happen to Harry or them both during the quest. We have the means to deal with the situation, we should do it, not relying on nebulous expectations that are very well might be, probably, wrong.

And yes, it's never final, she could always decide to do whatever afterwards, but a) Harry would be free, b) she would lose anything she gets our of cooperation, c) she would get our ire if she would be sufficiently antagonistic, d) it's no different from the multitude of other actors, some more potent, some less, some in our employ, some allied to us, some neutral, some opposing us. And there's benefits in her cooperating with us.

I'm not sure, but I'm reasonably confident that if you pop her out of his head while she's still in her Team Fallen spirit wear she's pretty likely to use what knowledge, power, and trust, she has to do something unpleasant. The factors that pushed her to be different wouldn't be present or apply to us if they were.

It's also worth noting that not being fallen grade evil isn't the same as being friendly or on our side.

Mab scores higher than Lasciel for all her faults and she's precisely as on our side as it's profitable and convenient for her to be. We didn't even see how Lash would interact with people other than the partner she would give her life for.

Don't let a vision of what she might have been mask what we're dealing with right now.
But why would she do it? She has self-preservation, she wants to live, it's obvious if she would work against Molly she very well might just end, like e.g. Arianna, that hell demon Molly defeated and got a sword from, that fallen Valkyrie and all other enemies we consistently overcame through the quest and that Harry knows of.

Why would she not cooperate when not cooperating gets her all the pain and suffering and cooperating the opposite? She is not a puppet of her Fallen originator or some concept of pure evil or whatever, she can make decisions and reason for herself. And she is not self-destructive, and she already lived in Harry's head for several years now and understands, if subconsciously, that she is a separate existence from the Fallen originator and owes no allegiance to her.
 
I mean, once she isn't something Lasciel will re-absorb the moment Dresden picks up the Coin, I expect a serious shift in priorities.
A selfish Lash would still be unlikely to side with her greater self when Molly with the spirit-killers is currently there and not trapped in a Coin.
Remember that as far as she's concerned she is Lasciel, or at least part of her. She has her views, values, and experience.

Accepting that the distinction could exist and meant something if it did was a key part in this whole process. It's also not one that has to lead to reform even if you can replicate it.

The idea that she'd shift her priorities towards something tolerable, much less friendly, simply because she isn't under the gun anymore is wishful thinking.
 
Accordingly, the reasons to trust her are that the truthfulness of what she says is verified by the Crown (which we know we can do) and that we can rely on her self-interest, when aligning with us gets her more than opposing us.
The problem is Molly doesn't know the initial motivation for why Fallen and their Boss started their rebellion. Without it any long term team ups are kinda moot. And using the Crown on it skirts dangerously close to the thing Molly promised not to do.
 
Not an enemy, and opponent, with some opposing motivations (convincing/preventing Harry to use the coin) and some aligned (keeping Harry alive, letting her be free by letting Harry free), as demonstrated in our interactions with her in Arc 0 Post 14: The Devil Wears Better than Prada and after that. And if aligned motivations outweigh opposing, we can work together.

Accordingly, the reasons to trust her are that the truthfulness of what she says is verified by the Crown (which we know we can do) and that we can rely on her self-interest, when aligning with us gets her more than opposing us.

Lasciel, as in the original Fallen, is undeniably an enemy, though with all else being equal even she would be better redeemed, though of course in the current situation and very much probably in the future it's a pipe dream.

Lash, the shadow in Harry's head, is different, Molly long ago made that distinction as evidenced by her recent talk with Uriel. And I checked, there were no warnings about shadows of Fallen in our hell. There was a specific question, what would happen if one was exorcised in the FCF, and the answer was, Uriel does not know what would happen even in general, were the exorcism be performed and successful anywhere at all, not specifically our hell. We know that at least Devil Refining Cauldron method 100% works, Molly knows IC that charms work exactly as they should, always.

Now there was a warning, but it was in regards to specifically Ammorachius, the peril of an angel sword aligned with the White God in out hell. Complete opposite of the shadow of the Fallen.

And hey, in that same update there was a question about redeeming Yama Kings, that's an answer why would Molly even consider interacting with Lash. Like Artemis1992 said, Lash did relatively very small amount of evil throughout her existence, certainly in regards to Molly, and is obviously more deserving of redemption than this Yama King, or, more mundane examples, ghouls and vampires we've taken to our service, who have years of experience comitting atrocities.

And taking our offer would be conclusion of Lash's redemption arc. Slightly different than in DF canon, but no less final, not for love of Harry, but of need to be herself, but in both cases dropping her original motivation of convincing Harry to use the coin of her own free will. Again, we would use Crown to check if she really is truthful about dropping this matter, if she doesn't she doesn't get to work with us and get all good things she can get out of it, the main being self-actualization.

And don't think we can rely on DF canon to get to the kind of redemption she got in it, there's no telling what could happen to Harry or them both during the quest. We have the means to deal with the situation, we should do it, not relying on nebulous expectations that are very well might be, probably, wrong.

And yes, it's never final, she could always decide to do whatever afterwards, but a) Harry would be free, b) she would lose anything she gets our of cooperation, c) she would get our ire if she would be sufficiently antagonistic, d) it's no different from the multitude of other actors, some more potent, some less, some in our employ, some allied to us, some neutral, some opposing us. And there's benefits in her cooperating with us
Her interest in Dresden is a complicated thing, and she hasn't resolved to something other than being a Denarian yet if she ever will.

Telling the truth doesn't make her trustworthy in the least, manipulating with the truth isn't a novel idea to say the least.

You're making the critical assumption that she wants to work with us on the things we want to do and cares for them in a way similar to how Moly would.

Lash isn't a prisoner looking to get out as far as she is concerned, she's here on purpose to support the Fallen's cause because she wants to.

Nothing she says or does to convince us on this point can be trusted on its face, nor can any actual good will from her be taken as anything but a tool to manipulate her audience.

That's what she is, what she was made for. It's not fair, but it is true. You're letting an image of what you want overwrite the reality of what Lash actually is.

But why would she do it? She has self-preservation, she wants to live, it's obvious if she would work against Molly she very well might just end, like e.g. Arianna, that hell demon Molly defeated and got a sword from, that fallen Valkyrie and all other enemies we consistently overcame through the quest and that Harry knows of.

Why would she not cooperate when not cooperating gets her all the pain and suffering and cooperating the opposite? She is not a puppet of her Fallen originator or some concept of pure evil or whatever, she can make decisions and reason for herself. And she is not self-destructive, and she already lived in Harry's head for several years now and understands, if subconsciously, that she is a separate existence from the Fallen originator and owes no allegiance to her.
You're making a lot of assumptions about her motives, desires, and opinions on things.

She is formed from the mind of someone who was willing to fist fight god impressed on the essence of Harry Dresden. Being afraid of risking her life isn't exactly in her spiritual dna.

We have no way to know how far along her development of her own identity is yet, how she'll react to things or develop as a person. This is pure speculation and it would take very little deviation to make this a problem for us.
 
It's really disputable. On the one hand, the Celestial Exalts did receive the Ruling Mandate from the gods, which is even more significant for the Infernals as they were the closest servants of the original bosses of Yu Shan. However, it's clear that the Heavens are not the same and the Earth is different, so I don't think that August Personage of Jade was keeping Exalted in mind while making the Seal.
Keep in mind that while the words 'the Mandate of Heaven' and 'the Creation Ruling Mandate' might sound similar and there might be some kind of connection there metaphysically in ways Molly does not presently understand they are not the same. The Second Age was a long, long, long time ago, before the world was round and spilling when it had five poles not two.
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Jade Emperor's palace was built atop the ruins of a realm built atop the ruins of Yu Shan or something like that. It certainly bears investigation.
The idea that she'd shift her priorities towards something tolerable, much less friendly, simply because she isn't under the gun anymore is wishful thinking.
Well, there's tangential evidence for that - when Harry visited our world, she tried to manifest physically. Assuming that this wasn't a goof on her part and she calculated the likely outcomes at least somewhat, she was likely trying to... I won't say "ask for political asylum", but something of the same nature.

When Harry is assigned to our Kingdom by WC, I would support removing Lash from him. Not letting her go, certainly, but separating them. Use CCoP to build a containment chamber / comfortable cell for her (that's probably a prodigy of some kind), then remove her from Harry.
 
Well, there's tangential evidence for that - when Harry visited our world, she tried to manifest physically. Assuming that this wasn't a goof on her part and she calculated the likely outcomes at least somewhat, she was likely trying to... I won't say "ask for political asylum", but something of the same nature.
This is assigning motive, which we should be careful about when dealing with an angelic grade con artist. Trying to manifest is proof that she thought she could benefit from doing so and that's all it is.

Even if she did ask for asylum that doesn't mean her goal was to defect, or that her following actions would be beneficial to us.
 
This is assigning motive, which we should be careful about when dealing with an angelic grade con artist. Trying to manifest is proof that she thought she could benefit from doing so and that's all it is.

Even if she did ask for asylum that doesn't mean her goal was to defect, or that her following actions would be beneficial to us.
That's true. Concerning our own observational skills and Lash's likely social stats, the only way we will be able to be sure about her motivation is through the use of the crown. It still seems like a good idea to make a suitable containment chamber, and extract her from Dresden before setting him loose on our world.
 
That's true. Concerning our own observational skills and Lash's likely social stats, the only way we will be able to be sure about her motivation is through the use of the crown. It still seems like a good idea to make a suitable containment chamber, and extract her from Dresden before setting him loose on our world.
From an IC perspective, and really on every bit of OOC info other than the golden BB that was Lash's relationship with Dresden, the correct thing to do is to rip her out and kill her.

We're just stuck because we saw the nearly impossible shot land in canon, and her daughter would be amazing to see in the quest.

All of this is basically just us trying to spin doctor our way into ignoring all that so we can have our cake and eat it too.


Surprised we used something as plebeian as a train, we should have just used the teleportation gates.
To an extent that was probably part of the tour.
 
That's true. Concerning our own observational skills and Lash's likely social stats, the only way we will be able to be sure about her motivation is through the use of the crown. It still seems like a good idea to make a suitable containment chamber, and extract her from Dresden before setting him loose on our world.

Assuming she doesn't have perfect defences against her mind being read.
 
Well, there's tangential evidence for that - when Harry visited our world, she tried to manifest physically. Assuming that this wasn't a goof on her part and she calculated the likely outcomes at least somewhat, she was likely trying to... I won't say "ask for political asylum", but something of the same nature.
That's not a proof of her not being an opponent in the long term. Wanting to become her own person in no way precludes her long term goals from clashing with Molly's or even from Lash still supporting the original Fallen goals, whatever they are, just through different methods.
 
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