Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.
(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)
 
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- Cadence being destabilised will be absolute hell on our action economy, and will bring enough Direct Celestia Attention for even minor Lore-related actions to garner suspicion; which is everything considering our Lore bonuses and the fact that we need Influences the next few turns whether or not we get FR done.

Celestia is a very good point that I had honestly forgotten about. She is currently one betrayal away from vaporizing the city and we should probably not be that betrayal.

[x] She is your friend. Tell her she was wrong, and that you are just a frail mare. Show her proof.

(Waffling? What's that?)
 
[x] She is your friend. Tell her she was wrong, and that you are just a frail mare. Show her proof.
 
[x] Go with the lie.
Like, seriously, we have reason to suspect we are going to feed Marinette with our own blood: we can't not climb Mansus (we literally have a trait for that), we can't just let that foals-eating Ligean slip binding; and if we are going to be at one health third of turns, we put ourselves at high risk of dying to some Mansus bullshit! Candance would be devastated at our death

She's going to find out eventually.
and is one that is easily found out
She is not going to conduct an investigation about the pregnancy (and the lack of which) she detected using her alicorn senses. This is not going to 'bite down on our family'.

Stormchaser would understand how and why things played out in this way, but the children...
Why would Candance/we if we had a miscarriage suddenly go tell kids about it?

if Cadence doesn't connect the scar and realize the miscarriage was a falsehood
Why would scar be the evidence towards that falsehood? Yes, we decided not to have more kids because of it, but that's what Stormchaser and us know; but we still had a daughter while being scarred.

I can't imagine it will end well if we try to hide our scars by pretending to have had a miscarriage.
Look, I really do think you're being paranoid. The best kind of lies are the ones that confirm the story a person already has in their head.

Mmm. I don't think we'll actually hit Forge 4 next turn to make the chances for FR palatable.
We need three Forge scraps; we have two books out of three and a servant action looking for books in Ponyville already. Oops, wrong plan.
Still, we just need one more Forge scrap for Forge 4, and this is the guaranteed buffer time: after that, we are risking reveal, not getting one. I think our chances are good decent.
 
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We need three Forge scraps; we have two books out of three and a servant action looking for books in Ponyville already.
And even if that book search action fails or we don't vote to do it next turn, this is the guaranteed buffer time: after that, we are risking reveal, not getting one. I think our chances are good.
??? We don't have a book search going. Our servants are looking for an Edge artifact specifically.
 
We need three Forge scraps; we have two books out of three and a servant action looking for books in Ponyville already.
And even if that book search action fails or we don't vote to do it next turn, this is the guaranteed buffer time: after that, we are risking reveal, not getting one. I think our chances are good.
If you're casting this with our own stats you'll need an expensive reagent, and books and rituals cost money too. Have you actually budgeted this against our other priorities?
 
[X] She is your friend. Tell her she was wrong, and that you are just a frail mare. Show her proof.

I can't personally do that to her, Cadence is a good friend and she's been through a lot already. We've also spent so much time not doing the Forge ritual to fix up our scar that at this point we might as well just wait for a bit and find a reason to "discover" it through our work in the Bureau. We have our Heart ability to stop us from getting insta-ganked, and the next few turns won't likely see much physical combat.
 
Like, seriously, we have reason to suspect we are going to feed Marinette with our own blood: we can't not climb Mansus (we literally have a trait for that), we can't just let that foals-eating Ligean slip binding; and if we are going to be at one health third of turns, we put ourselves at high risk of dying to some Mansus bullshit! Candance would be devastated at our death
If we do the summoning as soon as possible (turn 17) we have until turn 20 to renew the bonds. Our planned Luna return is on turn 18, we can probably launder the ritual through her within two turns. And I'm personally not planning on doing the summoning until turn 18, giving us another turn.
Look, I really do think you're being paranoid. The best kind of lies are the ones that confirm the story a person already has in their head.
Sure, if it were just the lie alone then maybe. But we also would have to deal with a depressed Cadence and thus an even more unhappy Celestia, and it's looking pretty likely that we won't be able to do the ritual with a high chance of success until after turn 18 anyway.

And I promise you we are all thankful for this. I at least loved it!
Should it be added to Apocrypha? Either way, glad you liked it (along with everyone else who reacted to it)!
 
"Cadance said that Princess Celestia called this place a jail. Or rather, she said Princess Celestia explained the Bureau needed a jail, for… temporary confinement."

Shining Armor says that, but you can already tell how much doubt he is putting on the word "temporary".

And honestly? A part of you shares his concerns.
Nah, its gonna be temporary confinement.
Anyone guilty enough for permanent confinement won't live long enough to count as permanent.
Also curious to see what paranoia will do. Aside from his best that is.
Wolfspawn sound more like 'doing his worst' than 'doing his best'.

[x] She is your friend. Tell her she was wrong, and that you are just a frail mare. Show her proof.

Between a rock and a hard place.
"very very sad" reminds me of the Twilight situation (keep/break faith in Celestia), the other characters have agency, too. And that agency can be used unreasonably, it can be used panickedly, it can be used badly.
I worry that a "very very sad" Cadences would make a mistake with much worse consequences than "Velvets Covers has another entry on the 'the lies we tell' list and hates herself for worrying a friend".
 
[X] She is your friend. Tell her she was wrong, and that you are just a frail mare. Show her proof.
 
To take a guess? She wanted to commit each of her failures to memory. Ignoring that those ponies had happy living lives and people who love them. Turning them into monuments of her own selfish hatred.
I. What? Where exactly are you getting selfish hatred from?

Like, consider this: How many people are in Canterlot? How of them died, in the face of devastation such as to leave the streets wider and the buildings remade? How much space hath the graveyards? (Does this really compare that poorly with the necessary series of mass graves?) How great the strain on the labor force, doing everything else that needed doing? I don't think it was that much a simple calculated practical necessity on her part, but more rational alternatives aren't coming to mind.

Ignoring the previous happy lives of those ponies in the course of her reaction to everything around Luna + Chrysalis-as-Luna and also 'Canterlot Burns' really does not strike me as in Celestia's character. Each of those things was a -1 Misery, in the roll. And really, what exactly about this strongly speaks of ignoring those happy lives and people who love them. The way the Devastation was, I think most of those involved died alongside at least a substantial portion of their families.


...Is Paranoia going to visit Soft Sweeps? that's NOT good news! (or it could be talking about Evil, but I don't think so).
congrats, Bird. our wolfy son is really really creepy... and at the same time unreasonably endearing in some strange and twisted way.
...wait, it doesn't mean Silky, right? it would certainly make sense if the last wolf spawn, the daughter, was meant to be Silky...
Nah, I'd say Soft Sweeps. She'd be the 7th mark, she's the oldest in a few different sense, and...

"I even remember that back and forth. I said Silky wasn't a foal anymore, you said she wasn't a mare yet either, I said she is slowly becoming one…"
For the progenitor's actions will always eclipse that of the progeny.
"She still isn't a mare, though…"
Still, there is something more now.
"Of course not. But she also isn't afraid of the dark or of sleeping alone anymore. Besides, she has Selene. And we both know that it's not like we are leaving them alone in the house like-"
Something else.
"I still can't believe we haven't heard from Scootaloo's parents…"
Something new.
"Exactly. But back to my first point. We had this same conversation a year ago, but we decided to let Silky go to school, right? And how did that turn out?"
A blank space, previously untouched.
"… it was the best thing we ever did for her…"
Her territory. Her home. Her den.
"Exactly! So, I know you get nervous when it comes to our daughters. I do too. But you have to trust them that they will be alright. And you have to trust us that we did good enough so far."
There is another one, there.
"I guess…"
The oldest. The last. The least hated.
"You get used to it, love. Trust me. And your train is set to leave tomorrow, so why don't we go spend some time with them?"
It has not yet met her.
"Okay…"
Time for a visit.
A loud whistle rings from outside the train. Steam blossoms from a metal chimney. The slight shake of brakes bring you out of your reverie.
"The oldest. The last. The least hated." (In the space Velvet had been leaving blank.) The least hated. I think you see what I mean.

HE'S OUR DEPUTY?! REALLY?!
I know, right! :) Somewhat obvious in hindsight, and in any case great news. As you say,,,

...This SHOULD be good... at least for now. he has the leash, after all. And if we kept the leash until after we "discovered" the lores, and convinced him to be the first official test subject of the Forge's Redemption... that could be an easy way to get him as confidant, if we can hide the cult connections...

Hopefully we won't have any problems... but we shouldn't have any until we remove the leash at the earliest.
We haz the leash, and it takes quite a bit for decisions under the leash to not be rationalized when it leaves. Morality still pressingly applies, that's the point of this whole vote, but there certainly many imagineable cases (and day-to-day Bureau setup affairs, for that matter) where it'll smooth life out for Velvet.

Depending on how events play out, we might need to pay some genuine attention to noticing the moment where it stops being necessary. At the risk of mangling a metaphor, it'd be good to see the back of the thing.

mh... as a matter of fact, this give us an excuse for going deep into the lores the moment they're "discovered" by the Bureau.

After all, imagine, from Cadance's point of view: Velvet, her dear friend, a wonderful mother and wife, just learned of a ritual that can restore her ability to have children. She got overzealous and did the ritual without first informing the alicorns, but she succeeds, proving the value of the lores.
And then she offers to do the same for Shining and Twilight's horns.
if that doesn't convince the Alicorns that the lores are worth using, NOTHING will.

We're betting on being able to either introduce the lores through Luna, or faking a "discovery" by a Bureau team (for example by hiding a copy of the library into the canterlot expedition site and having it be accidentally discovered by our agents), but if it works it would solve most of our problems.

Of course it also means we'll be stuck at 2 health max for a few more turns at least, and that might be a problem with Mareinette...

it might be worth it though.

Also getting not only the 20 bits for the ritual, but the 45 bits for a lvl 3 reagent or, even worse, the... presumably 90 bits for a lvl 4 reagent... it's a lot to ask. And it's by itself enough money to basically fund half of the canterlot expedition, possibly more if we get some of the money back.


I'm leaning towards telling her, but I'd like to see if @BirdBodhisattva has something to add about the lie we used first, why we thought she believed us, and why we think she didn't.
Ooh, now that's a thought. More then one, in fact: I wouldn't plant the discovery there in particular, Velvet Axe tromping through probably left some interesting traces—considering magic forensics, probably stick to 'chisel the 2- and 3-circle ritual configs onto a wall in case the Cult raids don't turn up a copy', or something like that.

IMO it's not a proper negaverse without some made-up comments as well. (Text in spoilers are copied from the original, also I'm assuming that the scenes from the real updates that had Cadence were also put in from her perspective between the planning update and leaving.)
I'll second Bird in thanking you for your addition here, negaverses just aren't quite the same without.

Will Cadance become suspicious if you ever summon Grail again? Probably not, because after this she will already have seen a "false positive" before (if you vote to show her the scar) or she just wont want to bring it up again (if you go with the lie).
Ooh, now this is good to know! Also very much the rest of this section, but let's not lose in the shuffle that we're genuinely fine w.r.t Grail influences.
 
Hmm. For the bits issue with Forge's Redemption:

Has anyone considered throwing on another max Grail influence (maybe from Mareinette after summoning) and taking out a loan with Filthy Rich?

Owing bits is a lot less permanent than owing health.
 
Hmm. For the bits issue with Forge's Redemption:

Has anyone considered throwing on another max Grail influence (maybe from Mareinette after summoning) and taking out a loan with Filthy Rich?

Owing bits is a lot less permanent than owing health.
With what AP?

No, seriously, do you have a plan for it? Could be useful if you can lay out something concrete for the argument.
 
With what AP?

No, seriously, do you have a plan for it? Could be useful if you can lay out something concrete for the argument.
Unfortunately I've got grandparents visiting, so my ability to meaningfully participate in this newest round of voting is even less than it has been.

I'll see if I can put anything worthwhile together probably 13-16 hours from now, but I'm out of time otherwise.
 
I will point out for sake of argument, we dont know how bad the malus of skipping a turn of exploration is. And its explicitly a stacking debuff, so it probably wont be THAT unmanageable to start with. If we hang on to one of our Woods exploration targets, we should be able to 'safely' poke the debuff, should we choose to. And I have sincere worries that if we climb TOO quickly, we will outpace our ability to meet challeneges.

[X] She is your friend. Tell her she was wrong, and that you are just a frail mare. Show her proof.
 
Like, I just want to point out that we… well, we pretty much missed our chance to prepare for doing a Redemption ritual when the turn vote ended. There was a plan made for doing so. It made the necessary allowances to try and get what was needed for comfortable odds, ran certain other risks on the hope that we would, in fact, have next turn safe from suspicion, and actually made progress towards the possibility of a ritual.

That plan lost. The allowances were deemed, by a wide margin, to be either unnecessary or not enough, and it was passed by. Whether they were entirely correct has yet to be seen, but it was done.

Now, this does not mean we can't try to shove it in somewhere in the midst of a dozen other plans that did not make those allowances and are already tenuous, but anyone who does try to make an about-face should acknowledge that it will be done on a needlessly weakened foundation and a certain someone did try to fix that earlier.

I never entirely agreed with Shaper's judgement on just how crucial a Redemption ritual was in itself compared to other priorities, but I will at least admit they called it's availability correctly.
 
[X] She is your friend. Tell her she was wrong, and that you are just a frail mare. Show her proof.

I'm trying to convince myself to vote for the lie because it's beneficial and I don't want Velvet to die at some point because she didn't heal herself, but I'm struggling to imagine her letting Cadence be that sad right now. There's arguments to be made for the greater good, but I'm steadfastly trying to ignore those.
 
[X] She is your friend. Tell her she was wrong, and that you are just a frail mare. Show her proof.

Yeah, this just means one extra turn of hiding our Trait, and we don't have what we need for a reliable FR next turn.

Also for shame Shining Armor you're missing out on becoming Shining Explosions.
Also we have more than just the Woods to poke about in: assuming we summon Mareinette next turn, we can go about the Red Church. Just make sure to pack some Moth in order to avoid the gribblies and Winter to shield the mind, and we should be largely fine.
 
So I am looking at this vote more from the moral perspective, and from a QM's view of "Let me see what the readers will say Velvet Covers is like".
From moral perspective both options are bad because they do not tell the truth. At beast, the first option reveals A truth, but invokes it to tell a lie. I really don't see either option as morally right, and with that clarification I vote
[x] Go with the lie.
Since if we can't do a right thing, we at least can do a practical thing.
 
Also we have more than just the Woods to poke about in: assuming we summon Mareinette next turn, we can go about the Red Church. Just make sure to pack some Moth in order to avoid the gribblies and Winter to shield the mind, and we should be largely fine.
Do you mean the secondary expedition? Because from what I understand we can go do that even without summoning her.

If we do summon her, however, we can also go up to the next location. Which, honestly, probably isn't actually that dangerous to do. It's either a single obstacle which shouldn't really be that harmful even at worst or another expedition site, which shouldn't be dangerous at all since we wouldn't be starting it immediately.
From moral perspective both options are bad because they do not tell the truth. At beast, the first option reveals A truth, but invokes it to tell a lie. I really don't see either option as morally right, and with that clarification I vote
[x] Go with the lie.
Since if we can't do a right thing, we at least can do a practical thing.
The difference seems to be that letting Cadence believe Velvet had a miscarriage is a much more harmful lie than excusing our poor health as just general frailty, because the former makes her exceptionally sad. Given the state of the world and who she is, that could have actually large consequences.

Not that I'm saying the other option is good, just that it seems to be less bad.
 
[X] Go with the lie.

WE NEED HEALTH
this quest isn't exactly Cultist Simulator, but in the game the first thing a competent player does is train their health and passion and reason up, because you legitimately need those. in the midgame having only 2 of any of those is suicide, because sometimes things just don't line up and you end up scarring a health away, or you get a curse that eats a health, or...
and if you get scarred down to 1 health, then it makes it harder to train more health, and then it only takes one thing going wrong again and you're dead. velvet can't train health, exactly (though maybe if we wrote in an 'exercise plan' and bird was nice maybe we could, in the spirit of discovery and verb-experimentation that the original game espoused. but we don't have the time, at this point).

but like, the throughput of health, as a resource, is very important. having more health not only keeps you safe and lets you do more things but it actively changes how you are allowed to act. having more health affects voter/player psychology.

at 3 health, yeah sure spend that shit, give mareinette some blood, you're safe even if stuff goes wrong, you can do stuff and be very confident. at 2 health velvet's okay, she doesn't mind going on expeditions like the Red Church. if Velvet is at 1 health, then that means she won't take risks, because you have no more health to spend (and dancing with death is probably unpleasant). if she doesn't take risks, then she needs to give things up, because certainty and safety is expensive, as we can see with the edge artifact.
if she gives things up, and doesn't take risks, and is very very fragile, then she probably dies! she slows down, limping around and predictable, and other cultists climb faster, summon names before her, gain ground and footing from which they can launch attacks, and that spirals out into a worse and worse situation. in a game of rocket tag, like occult war, risk taking keeps you safe.
being frightened is a malus for velvet. but it won't matter even if we incision it if the voters aren't able or willing to take risks themselves, because they haven't let themselves have the breathing room or resources to do so. you need to take risks to put yourselves ahead. otherwise you end up cornered and need to take a regrettable action to make up the difference (for example)

I'm honestly very frustrated how, I don't know, swayable? people are towards the writerly action of just saying very very with italics on one very in front of the word sad. a friend being sad is not the end of the world! dying is! dying literally is the end!
 
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