The Secrets' Crusade

[X] Hope – "Maybe there is a way out of this. Maybe what the Uninvolved told us was true."

I understand doubt but the way I see it this whole mission we're on is a fools errand, doubt is the logical response to all of it and to everything we've done so far but at the end of the day if we want to avoid the whole galactic war we need to be unrelentingly hopeful no matter what.

ilbgar123 said:

Aren't they already pariahs and shunned though? When was the last time they had an amicable dialogue with a non-Shiplord?

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Yup, but top dogs and selfless guardians in their self-awareness. Remove that ...

ilbgar123 said:

The point being that I'm getting worried about how much time we have left to mess with the Sorrows and still get to the Origin before the galactic war goes hot, and I suspect we'll be out of time for a peaceful solution when that happens.

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Depends. If we understand Origin good enough to enable 'Secrets revision: revert to original state (ie, the state before secrets were enabled)', the war would stop.

[X] Hope – "Maybe there is a way out of this. Maybe what the Uninvolved told us was true."

I mean, isn't this the entire point of the mission?

[X] Hope – "Maybe there is a way out of this. Maybe what the Uninvolved told us was true."
There's really no other way forward.

[X] Hope – "Maybe there is a way out of this. Maybe what the Uninvolved told us was true."

[X] Hope – "Maybe there is a way out of this. Maybe what the Uninvolved told us was true."

Because now there is a chance no matter how low that this doesn't end in a galactic war.

[X] Shock – "She actually did it. She did what she promised. The heck."

Because it makes me imagine Kalilah and Amanda being all mood kindred. And that image is funny enough for me to vote for it.

I was tempted by Shock for the lulz, but this is the magical girl way.
[X] Hope – "Maybe there is a way out of this. Maybe what the Uninvolved told us was true."

Not a doubt in my mind about how to vote this time.

[X] Hope – "Maybe there is a way out of this. Maybe what the Uninvolved told us was true."

[X] Hope – "Maybe there is a way out of this. Maybe what the Uninvolved told us was true."

A deliberate hope perhaps, rather than an uncritical one. A hope based on not having to infiltrate the Authority and make the speech herself, perhaps. But Kicha being there, making this speech, is beneficial.

I don't think any of these emotions in isolation fully encapsulates Amanda's feelings here, but I think she'd choose to focus on and internalize hope, because this is objectively better than we had any right to expect at this stage going in to this desperate fools errand of a mission.

I don't think Kicha is going to rally a plurality by herself, but there's a big difference between Kicha not doing this and the war starting without major dramatic opposition, and Kicha doing this and raising the question of who the Shiplords were, are and want to be into the public domain. It means that we don't have to incite or invent internal opposition to the war as part of our assault on Shiplord (anti-)diplomatic posture. Depending on the Authority's procedural mechanisms, this could quite plausibly also delay the vote substantially (days or weeks rather than minutes or hours) - Kicha having the simulation on hand and revealing it in this forum makes it not only of substantial public interest (which it would be regardless) but strongly links the vote to the validity and implications of the simulation (so no small number of people will want to do or at least engage with and review that analysis before the vote finalizes).

I notice that Kicha, again, did not say the quiet (Consolat) part out loud. So I'm not going to say this speech is everything that was wanted or needed. But it's so, so, so much better than our position would be without Kicha's faction stepping up to the plate.

Jreengus said:

I understand doubt but the way I see it this whole mission we're on is a fools errand, doubt is the logical response to all of it and to everything we've done so far but at the end of the day if we want to avoid the whole galactic war we need to be unrelentingly hopeful no matter what.

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Sure, this whole mission is founded on hope, but that doesn't mean that we have to find hope in everything that happens while we're on it. The point of the mission is to make our own hope by cutting to the heart of the issue, ripping that heart out, and consuming it to gain its power.

That metaphor got away from me, but the point is that unless that bit at the end was an actual threat of an actual civil war that the Hearthguard can actually follow through on, this is the same speech that's been made before every other Sorrow. This speech hasn't changed what our job is.

If there's any hope to be found here, it's from the Shipteens' reactions to the speech, not the speech itself, and we don't know what their reactions are yet.

[X] Doubt – "This is…certainly something, I guess? But can it really do anything to help us?"

Aside from the fact that Kischa of all people spoke up in the Authority, I wonder how many Shiplords in hibernation had one of their "wake me up" conditions met by what she presented. That someone managed to find an alternate path at that Sorrow.

That seems like something that everyone who went into hibernation because they're all out of ideas or hope for making things better would be extremely interested in.

I don't like the phrasing of hope because both parts are not worthwhile. Of course there's a way out of this. There's always a choice, it's just that the shiplords are comfortable making these omnicidal choices. The uninvolved were giving us the equivalent of dollar store platitudes.

[X] Hope – "Maybe there is a way out of this. Maybe what the Uninvolved told us was true."
[X] Shock – "She actually did it. She did what she promised. The heck."

[x] Doubt – "This is…certainly something, I guess? But can it really do anything to help us?"

On its own, it is nowhere near enough.

Tally before I sleep. Damn y'all are hopeful.

Honestly, I feel a mix of doubt and a bit of hope. Hope in the sense that this is definitely a big deal and sows a seed that could bloom in time, depending on the conditions. But doubt in the sense that this is NOT a line in the sand or the kind of comprehensive argument/warning that the Shiplords have no more second chances and that failing to change course before this war goes too far will result in the Shiplords' ultimate failure regardless of whether or not they "win" the war.

Hell, if Kicha had outright stated that the Hearthguard may have accepted the Authority's ruling in the earlier Sorrow, but that they explicitly will not accept staying the course anymore, and will see the Sorrows burn before they allow another one to occur in front of them, would have really made for a decisive, dramatic statement. After all, she could say, what possible point is there in maintaining the Sorrows if the Shiplords decide to ignore the lessons therein and perpetuate new Sorrows deliberately?

I mean, when your audience consists of immortals who are probably accustomed to a lot of subtlety and very muted, gradual, don't-rock-the-boat politics, saying "we shall not abide a third" does kind of contain this statement.

No hedging, no statement of moderation, not a statement of personal preference.

We shall not abide.

SaltyWaffles said:

Honestly, I feel a mix of doubt and a bit of hope

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I agree with you here, but "doubt" as described in the voting option feels more like fatalism than uncertainty. The kind of doubt I feel is more like "I'm too world-weary to believe in the hope unwaveringly, and it's unrealistic to expect that everything will go absolutely perfectly." By contrast, the voting option to me comes across more like "it's probably not going to work; it's too little, too late."

Seeing how the attitudes of modern Shiplord adolescents parallel some of the attitudes of modern human adolescents certainly tips my own perspective into the range of "this is going to be controversial, but I think it might actually have a chance of working."

In the hopes of giving some clarity here: you're deciding which emotion of the mix that Amanda is feeling (all those listed) is most powerful. Not which overwrites the others. It'll have a broader effect on Amanda's choices, but it won't wipe away the rest of her feelings - and the runner up votes will have an impact as they usually do.

[X] Doubt – "This is…certainly something, I guess? But can it really do anything to help us?"