Chapter 24.4: Build Discussion
"That...is a list," Taylor said, dismayed.
"Four of them, actually," Levi said. "It could be worse. Take a breath and we'll all work it through together. I'm sure you have questions."
"Yeah," Taylor said after a moment. "Primal has that thing where all skills are unlocked. Does that mean it could learn how to do Rollup and make higher-level lootboxes from lower-level ones?"
"No," Levi said firmly. "I am as positive as I can be that there is not going to be any way to get Rollup without having the Wheeler Dealer class. Honestly, it's suicidal of the showrunners to even have
one method of someone getting and using that skill.
"The thing to remember about skills being unlocked: all it means is that if you do the thing enough then you will get the dungeon-enhanced skill. Pick enough locks, you'll get the Lockpicking skill. Bash a few trolls with an axe, get the Axe skill. You need to actually be able to do the thing in question, so even if the Big B were willing to have multiple ways of getting Rollup, you still wouldn't be able to get it because it's not a thing you can simply choose to do." He paused. "And, again: all skills are now locked by default, so you're not going to be getting
any skill just by doing the thing. Not unless you have a class or race that says you can."
"What about this Sysop class?" Taylor asked. "Is the ability to copy an actionable from one crawler to another itself an actionable, or are all these non-capitalized abilities that interface with the system something outside that category?"
Levi's eyes flickered as he read through the interface. "Looks like the Sysop abilities are outside the normal scope of the system. Weirdly, they are not themselves actionables even though that term literally means 'thing that the AI needs to take action to enable'."
"I want to know about Doppleganger," Calliope asked. "Can I learn all race-based skills of other races if I can imitate them with Body Sculpting? Like that Draconid skill, 'Skin Armor'—if I imitated that by putting metal just below my skin, could I get that? Or Wing Strike by growing wings and using them to hit stuff?"
Levi shook his head. "No. Well, sort of. There's obviously a lot of overlap between races." He paused, visibly struggling to organize his thoughts.
"Okay, back up," he said. "As of this floor, all skills are locked unless stated otherwise. That means you can no longer acquire a skill simply by doing the action, you need to have some sort of item or event or whatever before you can learn it. As with everything, there's an asterisk on that. In the case of Doppleganger the asterisk means that a lot of skills remain unlocked for you because they are considered Doppleganger racial skills, so you could learn them simply by doing them. We don't know what's on that list, but it doesn't matter what you look like when you're doing the thing. If the skill is unlocked and you do that thing often enough, you'll get the skill."
He checked to see if she was following; at her expression, he shrugged. "Here's my advice: don't waste time thinking about it. All that it really means is that the AI might occasionally give you a level-3 skill out of nowhere, so just do your regular thing and don't waste time on it. Sure, we could theorize about what might or might not be on the list and you could go specifically pursue that action in order to unlock that skill, but that's not time-efficient. If we guessed wrong and the skill is locked then you've wasted time. Much better to simply do what seems like the optimal thing for long-term survival and be pleasantly surprised once in a while."
"When?" Calliope asked. "Like, if I keep letting Moose pull me, am I eventually going to get a skill for it?"
"Maybe," Levi said. "If there's a skill called...I dunno, 'Skitching', then we can assume it's locked by default. If Skitching turns out to be a racial skill for Dopplegangers then it will be unlocked and you'll eventually get it if you let Moose keep towing you around. If it's not a racial skill for Dopplegangers then you will never get it unless you find a lootbox item that gives a bonus to it. Like I said, don't waste time thinking about this. Focus on making a good build pick."
"On that subject," Taylor said carefully. "You said that we aren't being observed right now, yes?"
"You aren't being observed by anyone except the AI and the showrunners," Levi corrected. "Why?"
"Is there any way for us to have a truly private conversation with you?" Taylor asked.
"No. And the fact that you need to ask that means you should probably put whatever was in your head right out of your head."
"Ah," Taylor said, feeling a little green. "Right, so, moving back to safer ground: if I pick Dzichi, can I manipulate my yo-yo to insane degrees with my hair?"
"Oh deeps, can you ever," Levi said, amused. "It'll be bonkers."
"Speaking of Moose," Drew said, even though the conversation had moved on. "When we first got here, Moose batted at the air as if he were getting the same notifications as us. Has he been getting loot boxes?"
"Yes," Levi said. "Anything above a certain weight that comes into the dungeon gets a crawler ID. Anything with a crawler ID earns achievements and loot boxes. It's not meaningful with pets in most cases, since they can never open them, but the system does it because it's easier than having a special exception and it works well in cases where the pet gets transformed into a sapient through some means."
"As a Soulbonded Familiar, Moose gets +1 Intelligence every 30 levels," Taylor reminded him. "Does that mean he'll be able to open them when he hits level 30?"
Levi's eye stalks rose up. "Ooh, right, I forgot about that. Once he hits level 60 and has an Intelligence of 2, I think he'll count as sapient. I'll be able to turn his interface on and yes, he'll be able to open loot boxes. Wow. He'll have a craptop of them by then."
Taylor grinned and scritched furiously at Moose's ruff. "That's my good boy. You are going to break this place."
Moose looked delighted. Uncomprehending, but delighted.
"Will he be able to talk?" Calliope asked.
"Maybe," Levi said. "He won't have the vocal structures for it, but the dungeon is weird sometimes. He'll be able to use chat, though."
Taylor carefully did not ask the obvious question:
Would the Sysop class let me transfer Moose's boxes to someone who can actually use them? The answer was almost certainly 'yes, but it's hard to predict how Borant will respond.' Still, it was worth considering.
"How about Character Actor?" he asked instead. "How would it interact with the Medical Student's debt?"
"Can't be sure, since that's a very unusual disadvantage," Levi said. "My guess is that you would keep the debt even after losing access to the abilities."
"Well that's not good," Taylor said.
"Tell you what else isn't good," Calliope said. "This Boring Ol' Fighter class. I mean sure, I love it to pieces and would absolutely take it because who doesn't want to be a massive badass, except it's going to lock me out of using my skateboard to ramp on walls."
Levi hesitated. "Here's the thing: the AI is a sapient person, so attempting to manipulate it in any way is wrong right from the get-go. It's also much smarter than us and vastly more powerful, which means that we
can't manipulate it and doing anything that even hints that we might want to can get us killed. Because of all that, it's a bad idea to talk too much about what the AI will or won't do. Also, we've already seen from these options that the AI is willing to push you towards an unarmed class and away from using your sword.
"With all that said, while I don't
expect that the AI will give you a way to continue using your skateboard after taking Boring Ol' Fighter, it also wouldn't surprise me if it happened. The AI gave you the skateboard in a Legendary box and it's a fan favorite. Borant will definitely want you to continue using it for the views and it seems not unreasonable that the AI will want you to continue using this very impressive thing that it was kind enough to special create for you. Granted, there might be some drawback in combination with the ability. Still, BOF is so overpowered that you should definitely consider it."
"So these classes are overpowered?" Taylor asked.
"They're definitely top shelf classes," Levi said. "Probably has something to do with the fact that you and Calliope have single-digit crawler IDs and Drew is barely in double digits."
"Speaking of me," Drew said. "I asked before about what happens to my skill XP when I go down a floor. You said you couldn't answer as a game guide. Also, what's the difference between descending the stairs and entering a new floor?"
"Right," Levi said. "As to the skill XP, I don't actually know. The best I can say is that Character Actor skill is clearly intended to give you a fresh slate every floor, so it would surprise me if you kept the abilities. That said, asking the question has now brought this idea to the showrunners' attention, which means it's even less likely that you'll keep the skills.
"As to that other point: popular crawlers get brought onto tunnel shows, like you guys were with Omusa's show. There's two slots for those, and the first slot is between when you descend and when you arrive. That means that your abilities won't update until after the show—it's almost never an issue, since your interface is generally turned off while you're outside the dungeon, but it's still worth a mention."
And another way of hinting that you should take Manager, he audibly did not say.
"Cool," Drew said. "Can I choose the same class two floors in a row?"
"Yes, although your class list is going to change each time. It
usually only gets longer, with new options being added on top of old, but there's nothing saying that they can't remove choices."
"How does Be My Second from Duelist interact with damage immunities?" Calliope asked. "The class looks pretty cool, but that's a really important part of it. If my second is immune to fire damage and I get hit with fire, am I protected? If I'm immune to poison, can I do Be My Second on someone and drink poison to poison them?"
"As with everything, this is at the AI's discretion," Levi said. "The way it usually works is that damage you're immune to happens but is immediately reduced to zero. That means that yes, you would be immune to fire damage as long as you had a second that was immune to fire damage." He raised a claw. "Before you ask: Pyrophilia converts damage into healing before it's applied, so the damage won't be transferred to your second. As to the poison thing: yes, that should work."
"I'm looking at Multacorpalan and Sysop," Taylor said. "Would I be able to receive a buff with one body and transfer it with a second? Is there a distance requirement for the Two Body Problem skill?"
"These Sysop abilities are weird and don't work like anything I've ever seen before," Levi said carefully. "I would expect that yes, you could use the Sysop powers to transfer buffs from one of your bodies to another. I might be wrong about that—the ability says that you can transfer it to 'another crawler', and since the two bodies will have the same crawler ID they might be excluded. Still, I
think it would work. As to distance limits, no. The two bodies are both you."
Taylor nodded, thinking. He went back and reread some of his options and then asked, "Just how rich are the Zree? Like, in comparison to the rest of the Syndicate? And how likely are they to use that to our benefit?"
"'Very' and 'fairly, I think'," Levi said. "I'm not an expert on galactic lore, but my understanding is that the Zree are an entire eusocial species where only the royals are sapient. They breed fast and control a
lot of worlds. An uncountable number of tireless and perfectly coordinated workers generates one deeps of an economy. The fact that their royals explicitly go out and form bonds with other species before transforming means that they've got a good-sized net of allies, and they are known for two things: playing straight with people who play straight with them, and absolutely annhiliating the fuck out of anyone who does them wrong. This race could only be here if they authorized it, meaning that they are looking for candidates who are smart enough and tough enough to prove themselves in the dungeon, and honorable enough to serve their indenture without being censured. If they like what they see then there's a good chance they would sign up as a Benefactor on the fifth or sixth floor, and urge their allies to do the same. As long as you live up to their standards, it would go an enormous way to guaranteeing your survival."
"Hm," Taylor said. Living up to the unspecified standards of an alien species had some flags over it, but if Levi was right that it simply consisted of "survive and be honorable" then that was straightforward.
"Oh, another Sysop question," he said.
Levi's eyestalks rolled up to point at the ceiling. "Really? I've already said I don't know about this class."
"Okay, but give me your best guess. It says that I'm a valid target for all of my class abilities, right? And it also says that I can choose a crawler and an NPC who is not currently a manager and make that NPC become that crawler's manager. Does that mean I could make myself someone's manager?"
Levi cocked his head in confusion. "I mean...even if it does, why would you want to? The main advantage of having a manager is that they've been around the dungeon a long time and know stuff that you crawlers don't. Also that they can use their skills to help you in non-combat ways. You don't know more than your fellow crawlers and you're already free to use your skills to help them. And sure, as a general rule I'm perfectly happy to help other crawlers, although my priorities are Drew's survival first and the survival of his party members second. Everything else is a distant third."
"I was hoping to be able to do some cheese with teleporting to their location when they enter a safe room," Taylor explained.
"Ah. Well, I doubt that Sysop would work that way and even if it did, the teleportation thing wouldn't be worth it."
"Fair enough," Taylor said. "Speaking of helping other crawlers: when we're done here, would you help our friends in the Astronomy Army? If they have good picks that means they can help us out better and we'll have better things to copy if I go Sysop."
Levi shook his massive head. "I'd be willing, but it's not possible. Until path selection is done, no one can enter their guild hall and chat messages can't go in or out."
"Rats."
"Hey Levi," Drew said, "what do you think the Zree's opinion of Sysop copying the Royal Metamorphosis benefit would be? Would they think it was smart or would they consider it 'doing them wrong'?"
Levi scratched his ear. "Can't be sure," he said at last. "On balance, I'd advise against it. The point of that race is that they expect you to test yourself—have the courage to take a short-term disadvantage and the intelligence to survive despite it. If you skip the disadvantage then you haven't passed the test. Might be a bad thing, might simply mean they test you somewhere else. Either way, it's not going to be a positive."
"Are enhancements considered actionables?" Taylor asked. "Moose gets some great bonuses for being a legendary familiar. Could I copy the 'legendary familiar' status to Drew?" He carefully did not say 'to Calliope' because she would absolutely have made an inappropriate comment that would have melted his brain with embarrassment, and unfortunately simply having that thought was enough to make his brain cough up candidates for the statement which was causing the embarrassment second hand and oh god how could Calliope commit psychic warfare
without even taking one of the psychic races?!
Levi sighed. "I'm going to start twitching every time I hear the word 'Sysop', aren't I? Look, I don't know how many times I can say this:
I don't know about this class. There's never been anything like it as far as I know. I'd be shocked if you could copy a race, or a familiar status, or anything of the kind, but how the deeps would I know? This class is ridiculous to start with, so why shouldn't it be stupid as well? Sure, let's assume it can make Drew a familiar—in fact, let's not think so small! Maybe it can copy my indenture contract onto you lot! Think about it, you could be done with the dungeon right now! How fantastic would that be? Oh, oh, wait! Maybe we can copy Moose's view count onto each of you, repeatedly, until you have so many views that you're on the top ten list and you get a Benefactor contract and then we copy the Benefactor contract? Wouldn't that be filled with combs and dandelions?!" He threw all four hands in the air in frustration.
Taylor gave him a slow count of three to calm down before asking, "Feeling better?"
"Yes. And don't ask me if you can copy Moose's familiar status. I have no idea, but the answer is probably no."
"Speaking of animal-related things," Calliope said, "what about the catkin race? When we were talking about it you said there were some really good ones. Give us some examples?"
"Sure," Levi said, leaning back and tapping his lips in thought. "So, you've got your basic ones. Tigrans are very strong, very tough, and pretty fast. They've got nasty claws that give the Unarmed Combat and Powerful Strike skills. Cheetarans start with a high Dodge and can use bursts of superspeed for escape, tactical positioning, and damage enhancement. Those are pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum, and there's a bunch of other subspecies that fit somewhere in the middle—lynxans, leopardans, and so on. Then you get into the really wild options."
"Yeah?" Calliope said, leaning forward with rapt attention. She was so invested that she had stopped working her way through the plate of miniature cannoli.
"Yeah," Levi said. "See, the various subspecies fall into two categories: there's the group where they take a real cat and give it stats and skills suggestive of that animal. Tigers are big and strong, cheetahs are fast, lions have a powerful roar that functions as a sonic attack, and so on.
"Then there's the ones where they build off a mythological cat." He sipped his tea, thinking. "There's a subspecies based off the legend of Cat Sith. It eats the souls of enemies it kills, powering itself up in the process. I haven't actually seen it, only heard about it from other guides, so I'm not sure what its base stats are, or how it works mechanically. Might be simply stat boosts, might be some of the abilities of the downed foe, might be something else.
"There's a displacer catkin subspecies. They're permanently invisible, with an illusionary image of themselves that's always about a meter from where they actually are. The image shifts around sometimes, changing where it is relative to them.
"The wampus catkin has psychic attacks, the killakee can turn intangible for short periods, the kamadan has six poison snakes growing out of her torso, and the lammasu is required to worship a deity and can therefore cast spells from that deity's domain." He raised his lower left arm, one claw extended, while simultaneously sipping his tea. "Worshipping a god is a real crapshoot and I strongly advise against it. I was relieved to see that none of you ended up with a cleric or paladin class that would have required you to pick a god. Gods are generally more trouble then they're worth and I advise staying faaaar away from them if you can."
He smiled. "And then there's the hellcatkin."
Calliope leaned farther forward, her eyes shining and one foot tapping furiously with impatience.
"Now, I've only seen this once in all the time I've been in the dungeon," Levi cautioned. "So you really shouldn't get your hopes up. Even
if Drew's luck aura is in place—which it probably isn't—then it's still extremely unlikely you would get this subspecies." He paused, looking uncertain, then shook his head. "In fact, you know what? Never mind, I shouldn't even have mentioned it. Just forget I said anything. Catkin is a solid racial choice with good options, but if it were me I would lean towards—"
"Come on!" Calliope burst out. "You gotta tell me!"
"It's not a good idea, okay?" Levi said. "You'll just get your hopes up, which means you won't consider other options and you'll take the race because you're sure you'll get hellcatkin and then you'll be disappointed when you don't. Really, I shouldn't have said anything."
"Stop teasing her," Taylor said, amused. "I know it's fun, but her head might explode. I promise I'll make her give the other races a serious look."
Levi snorted. "Way to ruin my fun, man. Fine. Seriously though, this thing is extremely rare. Not 'literally seen it once ever' rare, but only a clawful of times.
"The dungeon monster called a 'hellcat' is built from a conflation of various mythological entities. It's pitch black, very big, very strong, permanently on fire, vomits lava, inflicts a wasting debuff on anyone who touches its tail, and so on. A hellcatkin is a scaled down version of that, based on the premise that the spirit of a dead human banged a hellcat and the progency was kicked out of the underworld. They keep the 'pitch black and on fire' part, they have claws as long as mine"—he wiggled the banana-length weapons that extended from his fingers—"except much sharper. They generally don't get all of the powers of their progenitors, but they do get a subset of them. That means some combination of turning intangible, vomiting lava, literally ripping your soul out through your nose, and so on. It's like getting a Celestial box at race selection. Let me emphasize that you should
not expect to get it—in fact, let's reverse that: you should expect to
not get it."
Calliope's eyes were shining. "That is zoomy to the core," she breathed.
"Calliope," Taylor said, his voice filled with warning. "Get those stars out of your eyes. Catkin is a mystery box. Sure, maybe you roll a natural twenty fifty times in a row and get that monster thing, but it sounds like you're much more likely to just be fairly strong and fast. Compare that to satori, where you can literally kill people by thinking about it, or cygnan, where you can fly. Oh, or doppleganger—you'd be very tough right from the start and if we get you a backpack and some metal you could hit like a truck
and transform into things
and laugh in the face of anyone who hits you, and and and..."
She bobbed her head. "Yeah, okay. Still, Unc, you gotta admit—even leaving the last one aside, some of those catkin options sound amazing."
"Sure," Levi said. "But most of them either don't have a Constitution bonus or they have an actual penalty. The dungeon's conception of cats is that they're generally fast but fragile. There's a few exceptions, like the tigrans and panthrons, but if you go catkin then it's probably going to be risky to keep being a frontline fighter."
She frowned and deflated. "That's pop," she grumbled. "Still...they're fast, right?"
"Yes," Levi admitted. "Most of them. Most of them get a Dex bonus and a lot of them get a Dodge skill."
"Then let's keep it on the list," she said.
Taylor stared at the options, chewing his lip in thought. "Levi," he said after a moment, "how much more lethal is this floor going to be compared to the last two? If Drew takes Wizard Supremacist and attacks something physically then he takes a huge penalty and gets his powers shut off for 30 hours. How likely is that given that we have Moose and Leo to run interference? In particular, I'm worried about those Skyfowl dive bombing Drew."
Levi see-sawed a massive hand. "There's a huge amount of variability on this floor. If you spend all your time in the ruins, you likely won't see a skyfowl the whole time. If you go into the settlements, you'll see them but they mostly won't care to interact with you so if you don't seek them out they won't bother you." He shrugged. "In fact, if you
do cause a problem, it's unlikely that the skyfowl will attack you. Instead, they'll summon the town guards who are all going to be level 75 or 80 and absolutely unbeatable at your level. You'll have to run away—they won't chase you beyond the town, but you'll never be able to go back to that town.
"All in all, it's up to you," he said, looking at Drew. "If you take Wizard Supremacist you'll have an extremely powerful attack spell, at least one strong defensive spell, and a wide array of other things. Keep your bident in your inventory, don't do anything stupid, and you're likely fine."
Author's Note: I'll edit further questions in as we go.