That was a banger of a update! amazing world build great job!
[X] That the Flood was treachery by evil to sabotage the justice of God [Pugilist Opinion & Confessor Opinion].
[X] Amalgast is the greatest step yet taken, but he is not so special and essential that he should be totally above all others [Radical opinion].
[X] Yatoni was the betrayed, and the Ravs are in the right [Orthodox, Pugilist & Confessor opinion].
[X] High Confession was a dream cut short that we can hope to realize in some form, again [Confessor Opinion].
[X] He is a false shepherd who must not be trusted to lead the people to freedom [Ultraradical Opinion].
[X] The Sanhedron is too easily manipulated and too unsatisfying a tool for liberation [Ultraradical Opinion].
So there's been some questions elsewhere about the Sanhedron, I'll clarify some stuff:
1. "Reformers" is a general category that includes genuine extreme radicals.
2. Not everyone in the Sanhedron is wealthy, though it skews in that direction.
3. Not every elite in the country is for the Sanhedron, and in fact the Great Synod, representing the strongest faction of the orthodox high priesthood, heavily opposed its calling. Sword-Altar has been rumored to oppose it.
5. Conformers and Reformers are general vague stances, not firm political factions. They can change rapidly.
I beg you, people, I beg you, can we not hammer the ultraradicalism button to turn the HaKhofshim into the frothing rabid lunatic fringe party from the get-go and maybe radicalize more later after our initial attempts at the Sanhedron fall flat?
[x] That the Flood was a just punishment for the wicked of Babarak [Iconoclast & Orthodox Opinion].
[x] Amalgast is the greatest step yet taken, but he is not so special and essential that he should be totally above all others [Radical opinion].
[X] Yatoni was the betrayed, and the Ravs are in the right [Orthodox, Pugilist & Confessor opinion].
[x] High Confession was a nightmare that would have smothered the people and the world [Orthodox & Amalist Opinion].
[x] He is a misguided creature of his chamber, trapped within his cloister [Radical Opinion].
[x] The Sanhedron, if used correctly, can lead to the freedom of the people [Popular & Radical Opinion].
I beg you, people, I beg you, can we not hammer the ultraradicalism button to turn the HaKhofshim into the frothing rabid lunatic fringe party from the get-go and maybe radicalize more later after our initial attempts at the Sanhedron fall flat?
I'll add my appeal to this. I did a tally and the winning vote for the Patriarch is that he's a complete fake who cannot be trusted.
And like okay, to break character and actually talk like a politician. Are you guys fucking nuts? He's the man pardoning us. Dont fucking bite the hand feeding and in this case literally freeing you. If he fucks up and turns out to be a total scrub we can always turn on him later. He could absolutely be a total faker whose not good for anything, but it doesnt matter he's the one saying the things we want said. Calling him a false prophet and going for the guillotine calls right now makes no fucking sense.
The Sect are devoted believers sure, but they arent fucking stupid. They understand strategy and calling the guy helping you a false prophet is not good strategy.
Also, in terms of what we've seen of the 40th Patriarch so far. I dont see how the Sect would genuinely see him as a enemy right now. So far what we've seen of him is total gigachad whose demonstrated politics are in line with our own. He literally called a general assembly and told all the jurors to either suck it up or he will cancel all debts.
This is literally our Sect's wet dream.
Yeah we know from historical parallels that people in universe do not have that it will be a disaster moving forward. But right now, he's totally our guy.
Anointed with the powder of the convent of the Eucharist, anointed with the precious oil proudly smuggled in and with no tithes paid, the HaKhofshim Mekdash, the Temple of the Free, is formally consecrated.
The peasantry, their traditional freedom undermined by the rise of oblate serfdom, were drawn to the words of the Pasan Ghadi and his gurus, representatives of the angelforms who taught in the villages.
Advocating for justice and land, Pasan Ghadi inflamed the central circles, using war wagons to rout the Cheshvan horse and organized pike and shot to crush the Juror swordsmen.
O h, a near-chismatic High Jury? Delicious info for the sect's Scourge of God chamber.
For the vote choices:
[X] That the Flood was treachery by evil to sabotage the justice of God [Pugilist Opinion & Confessor Opinion]
[X] Yatoni was the betrayed, and the Ravs are in the right [Orthodox, Pugilist & Confessor opinion].
[X] Amalgast is separated in kind, not just degree, from other prophets, and he is the foundation of all that came after [Popular opinion].
[X] High Confession was a dream cut short that we can hope to realize in some form, again [Confessor Opinion].
[X] He is a misguided creature of his chamber, trapped within his cloister [Radical Opinion].
[X] The Sanhedron, if used correctly, can lead to the freedom of the people [Popular & Radical Opinion].
Explanation for the votes:
1. I vote for the first two based on us being a Pugilist sect & making our initial base in the Pugilist stronghold.
2. The High Confession option I chose synergizes with the Pugilist opinion on the Obrogas-Yatoni schism that aligns with the Confessors' opinion.
3. Since I picked the Pugilist opinion siding with Yatoni, it would make more sense if we see Amalgast as the foremost among prophets.
4. My pick for the Patriarch & Sanhendron is cuz it seems narratively interesting if we could see the change from a mild negative stance on the Patriarch into a more general anti-authoritarianism, & also seeing the disciples realizd how the Sanhendron must be so altered as to be a new assembly altogether to fix its problems (the name can stay lol). I also strongly suspect the Radical position could be popular relatively soon based on how freaking fast revolutionary events occur.
Like I dont want to put words in people's mouths, but it kind of feel like everyone's letting their historical knowledge of the French Revolution color their minds.
Yeah, we know that the Monarch who called for the General Assembly is probably going to fucking fail and die. But nobody in universe would think of that, they would think of him as either a radical or a gigachad, with the will of the people and god behind him giving him a good chance, not that he's definitely going to fail.
In the same vein, we know that in our history this will cause people to lose faith in the General Assembly and any belief in its legitimacy, but to Vasparan society and history, the Sanhendron is a holy tool that has never failed to help their society before. Yeah when it breaks it will be a total shitshow, but there's no reason for anyone to think that the Jurors will actually storm the Sanhendron and take over, breaking one of the most sacred and sacrosanct of their institutions.
I will say that if people are expecting this to go exactly like the French Revolution rather than drawing on some of the events and aesthetic of it then you are going to be in for a ride
Plus, you may think you're hedging your bets by taking a stand against the guy you think is a walking dead man, but what if he's killed by reactionaries? Then he could be a useful martyr for our cause.
The popular opinion of him is positive, the average man on the street thinks the Patriarch is a good man hemmed in by corrupt ministers. And that's what I'm roleplaying as, apropos of any out of universe assessment of his position.
In my case, Shevah votes for all sect based options on her personal beliefs (she is an ecumenical pugilist leaning towards amalism, believing that Rav Yatoni betrayed the unity of the Ravs), argues against the Patriarch because of her misandrist tendencies but tempers it because she accepts he is trying to do his best on account of having the guts to risk his life by calling a sanhedron in the wake of the war against the Mare, and she is honestly still rattled from how badly the conversion attempts of the Convent went so she is leaning much more towards trying towards attempting structural reform first before breaking the guns out.
Point being, for the rest of the votes, vote whatever you think is cool. Having a wacky doctrine isnt the worst thing in the world so long as our wackiness, which is winning, is mostly populist. We'll be fine.
But for the love of all that is holy and sane please consolidate behind these two options.
[] He is a misguided creature of his chamber, trapped within his cloister [Radical Opinion].
[] The Sanhedron, if used correctly, can lead to the freedom of the people [Popular & Radical Opinion].
They'll mark us as radical reformers, but ones aligned with the Patriarch and the Reformers in the Chamber. Meaning we'd have allies, and room to make political maneuvers and allies.
The current winning votes for those two basically mark us out as super ultra-radical, who don't care for anyone else. The Utopians who cannot achieve anything that Marx called out, because they are high on their own dreams and are unwilling to make compromises and common cause with those who share class and material interests with us.
And Ultraradicals we would be, basically disliked by the Jurors, the Patriarch, the Reformers and the Conservatives. Aka everyone in power. How in the hell would we get anything done? We dont even have the numbers and influence to lose and filter out in a Long March like the CPC did.
Oh people voting for the Flood, schism, & High Confessor synergy justified to our Pugilist nature; would you be willing to consider choosing the Popular Opinion option for Amalgast's prophetic stature? IMO just makes more sense with the preceding three options combo.
Also I somewhat agree with the advice that we delay taking the Ultraradical choices for the Patriarch & Sanhendron options. I'll note that I'm firm in picking Radical stance on the Patriarch mostly because the Popular option is a bit too naive.
I will say that if people are expecting this to go like the French Revolution rather than drawing on some of the events and aesthetic of it then you are going to be in for a ride
I will say that if people are expecting this to go exactly like the French Revolution rather than drawing on some of the events and aesthetic of it then you are going to be in for a ride
Jokes on's you. I've been making preparations to survive a purge with an even more radical core in a Long March into the countryside and then having the Scourge of God Banner lead a Maoist strategic Model of the people-peasant's struggle
[X] That the Flood was treachery by evil to sabotage the justice of God [Pugilist Opinion & Confessor Opinion].
[X] Amalgast is the greatest step yet taken, but he is not so special and essential that he should be totally above all others [Radical opinion].
[X] Yatoni was the betrayed, and the Ravs are in the right [Orthodox, Pugilist & Confessor opinion].
[X] High Confession was a nightmare that would have smothered the people and the world [Orthodox & Amalist Opinion].
[X] He is a misguided creature of his chamber, trapped within his cloister [Radical Opinion].
[X] The Sanhedron, if used correctly, can lead to the freedom of the people [Popular & Radical Opinion].
Now with actual votes (and a lack of Jacobin memes).
[X] That the Flood was treachery by evil to sabotage the justice of God [Pugilist Opinion & Confessor Opinion].
[X] Amalgast is the greatest step yet taken, but he is not so special and essential that he should be totally above all others [Radical opinion].
[X] Yatoni was the betrayed, and the Ravs are in the right [Orthodox, Pugilist & Confessor opinion].
[X] He is a misguided creature of his chamber, trapped within his cloister [Radical Opinion].
[X] The Sanhedron, if used correctly, can lead to the freedom of the people [Popular & Radical Opinion].
Brothers, Sisters, fellow Disciples all, I ask that we not be hasty in our rejection of the Sanhedron, but that we consider the weight of such an act. It was because of the Sanhedron that we were liberated from our unjust pentienence, the Sanhedron called by the Patriarch because evil ministers have squandered all that is right and holy.
[X] That the Flood was treachery by evil to sabotage the justice of God [Pugilist Opinion & Confessor Opinion].
[X] Amalgast is separated in kind, not just degree, from other prophets, and he is the foundation of all that came after [Popular opinion].
[X] Obrogras was the betrayed, and the Amalists are in the right [Amalist Opinion].
[X] High Confession was a nightmare that would have smothered the people and the world [Orthodox & Amalist Opinion].
[X] He is a misguided creature of his chamber, trapped within his cloister [Radical Opinion].
[X] The Sanhedron, if used correctly, can lead to the freedom of the people [Popular & Radical Opinion].
Here, Patarati Emet lays down the foundation of Hyperpugulism in the struggle to come:
Amalism kinda based, Confessors belong in lockers
The current winning votes for those two basically mark us out as super ultra-radical, who don't care for anyone else. The Utopians who cannot achieve anything that Marx called out, because they are high on their own dreams and are unwilling to make compromises and common cause with those who share class and material interests with us.
The high juries and high priests are exactly the kind of class enemies Marx talked about. You almost certainly aren't getting elected to the Juries or the High Priesthood to the Sanhedron unless you're one of the fuckers holding all of the debt that's causing the state to tear itself apart. Their class interests are not reconcilable with ours, and so long as their ilk controls the lion's share of the voting I think that the Sanhedron is largely a waste of energy. There's a whole mass of toilers that are being ground into dust beneath the demands of a small handful of financiers, and you want us to go make nice with their spiritual and material jailors?
It's not utopianism to reject the call to engage in a rigged game - quite the opposite, in fact.
If we were to somehow temper our views on the nature of the Patriarchate, which at best is debased and corrupt and at worst entirely illegitimate, we would be exchanging truth for lies. That the truth is unpalatable to the masses at present is unfortunate, but we shouldn't sacrifice the purity of our beliefs and our struggle for righteousness in the name of political expedience.
[X] That the Flood was treachery by evil to sabotage the justice of God [Pugilist Opinion & Confessor Opinion].
[X] Amalgast is the greatest step yet taken, but he is not so special and essential that he should be totally above all others [Radical opinion].
[X] Obrogras was the betrayed, and the Amalists are in the right [Amalist Opinion].
[X] High Confession was a dream cut short that we can hope to realize in some form, again [Confessor Opinion].
[X] He is a misguided creature of his chamber, trapped within his cloister [Radical Opinion].
[X] The Sanhedron, if used correctly, can lead to the freedom of the people [Popular & Radical Opinion].
The high juries and high priests are exactly the kind of class enemies Marx talked about. You almost certainly aren't getting elected to the Juries or the High Priesthood to the Sanhedron unless you're one of the fuckers holding all of the debt that's causing the state to tear itself apart. Their class interests are not reconcilable with ours, and so long as their ilk controls the lion's share of the voting I think that the Sanhedron is largely a waste of energy. There's a whole mass of toilers that are being ground into dust beneath the demands of a small handful of financiers, and you want us to go make nice with their spiritual and material jailors?
It's not utopianism to reject the call to engage in a rigged game - quite the opposite, in fact.
Marx talked about several sorts of enemies in the Manifesto. You are correct that the high juries are one;
-The elite class whose interests are separated from that of the people.
-The performative fake reformers, who merely mimic the words of the revolution, but who can have that performance only so long as the revolution never actually starts.
-And then he talked about the Utopians. The Revolutionaries who self-harm because they are so high on their own ideals, they imagine their beliefs to be better and above that of the popular consensus of the people and their other potential allies.
The entire point is to be revolutionaries, yes, but don't be so high on your own supply you think that your ideals mark you as separate from the mass of people who have their own idea, which ultimately makes you just as alienated from the masses as the Elites. And then you become an obstacle to the forging of a common class struggle.
Because the country is divided into 100 electoral elder prefectures for each chamber there are actually some members of the upper chambers less involved in the debt bondage business who did get elected. Pontiff-Prelate Samangan is an elder for the High Priesthood and he rails about the debt issue at length. So is Abbess Superior Tessel Tori of the Order Marina, one of the few female elders in the High Priesthood's chamber and strong advocate for children's education.
An unexpected appearance for the jurors is Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar of the Pale Horse Standard for an elder prefecture including parts of eastern Gushanaram, who is infamous for his profound contempt for the Ramayan High Jury and for fighting in the War with the Mare against the orders of his High Ataman, an action for which he was jailed and only released right before the Sanhedron. There are a number of these guys from the more frontier Juries who have not been plugged in deeply to the political currents of the center and are finding out about a lot of things for the first time.
[X] That the Flood was treachery by evil to sabotage the justice of God [Pugilist Opinion & Confessor Opinion].
[X] Amalgast is the greatest step yet taken, but he is not so special and essential that he should be totally above all others [Radical opinion].
[X] Obrogras was the betrayed, and the Amalists are in the right [Amalist Opinion].
[X] High Confession was a nightmare that would have smothered the people and the world [Orthodox & Amalist Opinion].
[X] He is a misguided creature of his chamber, trapped within his cloister [Radical Opinion].
[X] The Sanhedron, if used correctly, can lead to the freedom of the people [Popular & Radical Opinion].
Fellow disciples! While these are all important issues to discuss, we are forgetting that most vital cause and purpose of our movement: the end of the gold standard! We must introduce free silver into our economy to spread the wealth of God's creation among all classes and end the farce of God-Backed scrip. The souls of the faithful must not be chained to a golden calf and I will not consider this revolution finished until we have broken the fetters of gold imposed upon the Kingdom of God On Earth, or my name isn't Bryanaki Gidon!
There are a number of these guys from the more frontier Juries who have not been plugged in deeply to the political currents of the center and are finding out about of things for the first time.
Because the country is divided into 100 electoral elder prefectures for each chamber there are actually some members of the upper chambers less involved in the debt bondage business who did get elected. Pontiff-Prelate Samangan is an elder for the High Priesthood and he rails about the debt issue at length. So is Abbess Superior Tessel Tori of the Order Marina, one of the few female elders in the High Priesthood's chamber and strong advocate for children's education.
An unexpected appearance for the jurors is Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar of the Pale Horse Standard for an elder prefecture including parts of eastern Gushanaram, who is infamous for his profound contempt for the Ramayan High Jury and for fighting in the War with the Mare against the orders of his High Ataman, an action for which he was jailed and only released right before the Sanhedron. There are a number of these guys from the more frontier Juries who have not been plugged in deeply to the political currents of the center and are finding out about a lot of things for the first time.
Yeah, that makes sense. We arent even plugged into the Sanhedron yet. We simply do not have enough information to judge who are the ones tha are just pretending, who are the open enemies, and who could be potential allies or leads to allies.
Its too early to throw the towel. At this point all that would earn us is a quick smashing and being taken out of the game while other Sects survive.
Given that we set up in the Pugilist part of the city, shouldn't we take some Pugilist opinion stances, even if elsewhere we don't want to be seen as too radical just yet to avoid a crackdown or just alienate the general populace?
