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Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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    • Good Seed and Omake Spreadsheet Rules:

    Firstly, if you have questions about Good Seeds and the like please read here. If that doesn't answer your question please ping me in thread, or on Discord.

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    Omake Writer Instructions:

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    • Lampshade said:
    Baiting Old Cannibal and RP coalition to run into each other.
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    ...Right before a Trial Turn, where one side has members who specifically want us dead and the other side definitely wants us dead and also has unrivalled strategic mobility even by the standards of Nascent Souls, who already have unrivalled strategic mobility.

    It's definitely one way to try and level the playing field but it is horribly risky. Keep that in mind.

    Also keep in mind: They will also fight each other without us being there. Whereupon we can just sweep in with a stronger posture, hopefully a third Nascent Soul, and no Trial hanging over our heads like a sword of damocles, and have better odds of keeping the pass.
     
    Quick question, am I right in remembering reading something about how we are safe from local factions from the Virtuous Flipper Region during the trials because any one who enters the territory can be targeted by the hunters?

    Did I just invent that or is it a thing, I can't find any relevant quotes?
     
    If I were to start a Good Seed right now, would that count as part of Turn 14 or 15? I'm a little confused about the timeline here...
     
    TehChron said:
    They're going to do that anyway?
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    The BDF could try to tought it out for a while without supplies, leave the pass to OC, wait for his timer to end and only start retaking land after he's committed to invading us full time, pulling shenanigans like asking for exorbitant tariffs for keeping the pass clear, whereas if both faction run into each other while ready for conflict they probably won't just go "oh sorry wrong door" but instead have a shuffle right there while we sit across the Desert border munching popcorn. Ideally.
     
    [X] Plan Pay Cheap Now
    -[X] Don't
    -[X] Destasia's Amazing Idea That Will Pay Off Bigtime
    -[X] Increasing Wealth
    --[X] Expand your home industry and bolster the Clan's economy. The Righteous Path are never reliable trade partners so seek to transform your new carrying capacity towards inward growth
    -[X] Manuel - Meditate on Heaven's Shadow
    -[X] Kleisthenes - Economic Activity
    -[X] The Mortal Networks (1 Purchase)
    -[X] Set Out Ten Thousand Caches (1 Purchase)

    [X] Plan Pay Cheap Now for Friends
    -[X] Don't
    -[X] Destasia's Amazing Idea That Will Pay Off Bigtime
    -[X] Increasing Wealth
    --[X] Expand your home industry and bolster the Clan's economy. The Righteous Path are never reliable trade partners so seek to transform your new carrying capacity towards inward growth
    -[X] Manuel - Meditate on Heaven's Shadow
    -[X] Kleisthenes - Economic Activity
    -[X] Improve relations with the Magic Oak Sect (1 Purchase)
    -[X] Set Out Ten Thousand Caches (1 Purchase)

    I'm not going to win but that's no excuse for not putting myself out there. Honestly I don't mind the Plan for Closing Wings so it's no loss to me.
     
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    [X] Plan Pay Cheap Now for Friends

    I prefer the second NS action to be a 'mining' one. And I have some concerns about how long it would take for us with any scenario with the tree clan.

    Still two of the mountains clans that are not blood path went badly. And those guys have a lots of blood path users.
     
    Lampshade said:
    The BDF could try to tought it out for a while without supplies, leave the pass to OC, wait for his timer to end and only start retaking land after he's committed to invading us full time, pulling shenanigans like asking for exorbitant tariffs for keeping the pass clear, whereas if both faction run into each other while ready for conflict they probably won't just go "oh sorry wrong door" but instead have a shuffle right there while we sit across the Desert border munching popcorn. Ideally.
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    They aren't going to hold for another 100 years, man. Old Cannibal is only allowed back into the Desert in year 352, and the current year is 260.
     
    [X] Plan: Screw the money, we have rules!
    -[X] Pass word of the planned invasion on to Strength Purity
    --[X] The Clan has always stood to protect mortals, even when it turned the world against us. Multiple times. Yet, we are still here, no matter what the heavens threw at us. Lets not change that, even if our old neighbor is lonely without our company. Though, the small number of our spies is a bit worrying.
    -[X] Destasia's Amazing Idea That Will Pay Off Bigtime
    -[X] Building Bridges (Yuan Clan)
    --[X] Where there is Chaos, there is opportunity. We should try and see how our northern neighbor is holding up, if our western ones see our help unneeded for now.
    -[X] Manuel Meditate on Heaven's Shadow - Try to understand the Shadow through the Key it has granted you. Gain Two Shadow Key Points.
    -[X] Kleisthenes Tend to Diplomacy - Kleisthenes will spend all her spare time working on her general diplomatic outreaches. This will apply a considerable bonus to any diplomatic actions this turn, as well as any diplomatic rolls that crop up naturally.
    -[X] The Mortal Networks (1 Purchase)
    -[X] Improve relations with the Magic Oak Sect (1 Purchase)
    -[X] The Yuan Spies (1 Purchase)

    Fuck dealing with the technique palace on a trial turn, even if we do burn out another curse, it's just too costly imo.

    So the west is pretty much as good as lost for us? Let's see the north then!
     
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    Swordomatic said:
    They aren't going to hold for another 100 years, man. Old Cannibal is only allowed back into the Desert in year 352, and the current year is 260.
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    Cannibal plans to invade "on the turn of the century" rather than immediately.
    TehChron said:
    It honestly came across as jibberish to me, I'm sorry. Can you try rephrasing it in a way that specifies who does what and deliberate the relevant cause and effect?
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    You claimed that BDF and Cannibal would fight over the pass anyways, if I understood you correctly.

    I was trying to argue against that by pointing out that the BDF might leave OC in control of the Pass until his prohibition to enter the Desert expires if they believe that to be more profitable in the long run.

    However, if we !!!PURELY HYPOTHETICALLY!!! lure both OC and the RP into the same place at the same time, with both of them geared for a fight, they won't just call it a day and go home, whereas we easily could do just that.

    This does not imply that this strategy is practical. In fact, I agree with you that given the proximity of the Trials, it probably isn't. This does not make your original argument true, though. :p
     
    Lampshade said:
    Cannibal plans to invade "on the turn of the century" rather than immediately.

    You claimed that BDF and Cannibal would fight over the pass anyways, if I understood you correctly.

    I was trying to argue against that by pointing out that the BDF might leave OC in control of the Pass until his prohibition to enter the Desert expires if they believe that to be more profitable in the long run.

    However, if we !!!PURELY HYPOTHETICALLY!!! lure both OC and the RP into the same place at the same time, with both of them geared for a fight, they won't just call it a day and go home, whereas we easily could do just that.

    This does not imply that this strategy is practical. In fact, I agree with you that given the proximity of the Trials, it probably isn't. This does not make your original argument true, though. :p
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    ...You're saying that a Blood Path power, with zero reliance on Spirit Stones, who relies on the wealth gained from that trade substantially less than every other kind of Power and who could easily go without it, will facilitate the Spirit Stone trade that is the only reason that the Righteous Path can prosecute its wars and which is the primary source of income and diplomatic outreach that the Golden Devil Clan has.

    You think Old Cannibal will just let the Spirit Stone trade continue.

    You think Old Cannibal, if he seizes control of the Colossus Footstep Pass, won't wreck it out of spite for Manuel's heritage alone, irregardless of all the other perfectly good reasons to do so.

    There is no world in which a Blood Path power holding the most vital trade artery in the region will be at all profitable to the Righteous Powers, and if you can't recognise this then I doubt there's anything more I can say to convince you.
     
    Lampshade said:
    I was trying to argue against that by pointing out that the BDF might leave OC in control of the Pass until his prohibition to enter the Desert expires if they believe that to be more profitable in the long run.
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    I've been mostly sitting this out as a bystander but I'd like to point out that the Righteous Path relies on our goods to support their war effort against the Bloodpath so just letting OC sit on the pass isn't an option for them unless they pull some other source of goods out of nowhere or are content with losing the war due to crippled logistics.
     
    Swordomatic said:
    ...You're saying that a Blood Path power, with zero reliance on Spirit Stones, who relies on the wealth gained from that trade substantially less than every other kind of Power and who could easily go without it, will facilitate the Spirit Stone trade that is the only reason that the Righteous Path can prosecute its wars and which is the primary source of income and diplomatic outreach that the Golden Devil Clan has.
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    Sorry, but I don't see any possible chain of logic that would allow my argument to be interpreted that way.

    I already explained, quite clearly I believe, how the RP would profit from only retaking the pass after OC timer is up - by extorting payment from us for doing so.
     
    Lampshade said:
    Sorry, but I don't see any possible chain of logic that would allow my argument to be interpreted that way.

    I already explained, quite clearly I believe, how the RP would profit from only retaking the pass after OC timer is up - by extorting payment from us for doing so.
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    What? But the OC timer is a lot longer than the timer on the RP's survival without the Spirit Stone trade supporting their war effort.
     
    Lampshade said:
    I already explained, quite clearly I believe, how the RP would profit from only retaking the pass after OC timer is up - by extorting payment from us for doing so
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    But you didn't?

    We control the supply and they are consumers. In situations where demand outstrips supply those who hold the supply hold the power to dictate terms.

    There are no scenarios where that is the case, especially when they still are prosecuting a war against the NDA.

    Your assertion doesnt make any sense
    Lampshade said:
    Two and a half turns? With more ambient qi, more efficient distribution, and some of the lazier factions gone? I think it's doable.
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    Try closer to four? And even one turn without the stones would potentially cripple their war effort.
     
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    Lampshade said:
    Two and a half turns? With more ambient qi, more efficient distribution, and some of the lazier factions gone? I think it's doable.
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    It's currently the year 260. OC's deadline is 352. Every turn is 20 years, not 40 years. The earliest occasion OC can come back to the desert is halfway through Turn 18, but more likely he'll hit in Turn 19.

    That's 4 or 5 turns away. And the current state of the Poison Crushing Siege and the Demon War definitely does not allow the RP to have 4 or 5 turns of reserves, considering Occi has noted that RP powers already barely have even 1 turn of reserves for purchases. And this is independent of whether the involved parties are 'lazy' or not, because they're relying on those resources anyways. In fact, taking out the 'lazy' members of the Righteous Path will cut their reserves even more, because the ones involved in the critical fighting are already redlining.

    Your argument is delusional. There is no way in hell SPS, or really anyone who doesn't reach Heaven through Consumption, would ever allow OC to hold onto the Pass for any longer than it takes to muster a Nascent hitsquad.
     
    Lampshade said:
    Two and a half turns? With more ambient qi, more efficient distribution, and some of the lazier factions gone? I think it's doable.
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    I'm pretty sure it was just brought up that Old Cannibal isn't allowed back into the desert for five turns (92 years which is 4.6 but round to 5), and that he doesn't intend to come back for seven.
    Swordomatic said:
    They aren't going to hold for another 100 years, man. Old Cannibal is only allowed back into the Desert in year 352, and the current year is 260.
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    Lampshade said:
    Cannibal plans to invade "on the turn of the century" rather than immediately.
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    Wait that was literally you mentioning that!
     
    TehChron said:
    We control the supply and they are consumers. ... Try closer to four?
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    Cannibal is not required to hold the pass after the deadline is up. He could vacate it for the RP, allowing them to threaten us to open a second front if we don't pay up.
    Swordomatic said:
    It's currently the year 260. OC's deadline is 352. Every turn is 20 years, not 40 years.
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    I'll try again. Cannibal plans to invade "on the turn of the century" i.e. the year 300.

    352 - 300 = 52.

    52 / 20 = 2.6 Turns.
     
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