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Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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    • The best way to keep the momentum going. So long as we take the pass, we get access to the Legacy Tower and all those cool facilities... Although, I'll admit, I find it quite distasteful to push for a warmonger plan considering current events, but what can you do. Much love to people in Ukraine.

    [X] Plan I'm Altering Our Agreement, Pray I Don't Alter It Further
    -[X] Pass word of the planned invasion on to Strength Purity
    --[X] Look how how unreliable the Sorrowful Blacksmiths are that Old Cannibal's Devil Bees intended to take adantage of their weakness to stop the supply of Spirit Stones to the plains. It can not be! Neither, Old Cannibal nor the Noble Devil Alliance must be allowed to consume the Virtuous Flipper Region. The supply of spirit stones to the Great Battlefield must be maintained, we had to intervene in order to defend the pass and ensure trade between the Federation and the Golden Devils. On another order of idea, the elimination of those pesky tarrifs the Blacksmiths imposed sure was over due isn't it.
    -[X] Destasia's Amazing Idea That Will Pay Off Bigtime
    --[X] The light beast will serve as a guard to the Devil Bees frontline.
    -[X] War (Sorrowful Blacksmiths)
    --[X] We need to take the pass and the legacies within, we tried to get access to the tower though diplomacy nut were spurned and offered a pittance, it will not be. The Strength Purity Sect has said in the past that non-signatories would not be defended by the Alliance. And the spirits stones do need to flow to keep the war going are they ready to ruin themselves for a non-signatory?
    -[X] Manuel - Hunt an Enemy ( Weeping Anvil )
    --[X] "Ah, you see Old Iron we did negociate for me to help you slay your blood path enemy, I've done my part of the deal. Now, last time you had some fun bullying young Kleisthenes, let's make another deal then, what will you give to leave with your life? Haw about this lovely pass we have right here?"
    -[X] Kleisthenes - War (Sorrowful Blacksmiths)
    -[X] Purchases (2)
    --[X] The Mortal Networks (1 Purchase)
    --[X] Set Out Ten Thousand Caches (1 Purchase)
    ---[X] Our land and people will both be ready to resist the trials.
     
    If we only take the pass, Old Cannibal won't be able to attack us unless we goes through all the remaining territory of the Sorrowful Blacksmiths. The best would be if we can engineer the Blacksmiths to join the federation ONCE we already control the pass.
     
    How about maximum bloodthirst? We wait for the RP to assemble their Nascent Souls to walk in the like they own the place and then reactivate the defenses of the Tower.
     
    Sparsebeard said:
    If we only take the pass, Old Cannibal won't be able to attack us unless we goes through all the remaining territory of the Sorrowful Blacksmiths. The best would be if we can engineer the Blacksmiths to join the federation ONCE we already control the pass.
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    Er, the entire point of that attack would be to ruin the pass?

    So it's only natural that he'd be relying on the Bees to fly over those territories one way or the other. On his way to hitting whomever is in possession of it.
    Lampshade said:
    How about maximum bloodthirst? We wait for the RP to assemble their Nascent Souls to walk in the like they own the place and then reactivate the defenses of the Tower.
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    We turned down that boon for the Key. Thats probably just not going to be on the table.
     
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    TehChron said:
    Er, the entire point of that attack would be to ruin the pass?

    So it's only natural that he'd be relying on the Bees to fly over those territories one way or the other. On his way to hitting whomever is in possession of it.
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    I mean, we don't even know if Old Cannibal would want to attack the Pass if it's under our control. He can't know whether or not we have some kind of doomsday device in one of our facilities and even generally, we are a much more dangerous enemy than the Sorrowful Blacksmiths (and we have a reputation as steadfast defenders).

    Unless we attack him, I woundn't be surprised if Old Cannibal was happy to just ignore us and concentrate on his other enemies.
     
    Lampshade said:
    Of course it won't be at maximum strength, but the base mechanism might still exist even without the support of SoHW, similar to how the legacies existed even without the Key.
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    Plus, even if it's not functionnal, we can still try to bluff. Manuel is the type of character I can see having everybody believing that he WANTS them to attack to pass and lure them into a trap.
     
    Okay, but what happens if Old Cannibal decides to call the bluff? We already know that the entire point of Old Cannibal's assault is to simultaneously starve us of income and cripple the Righteous Path's ability to prosecute their various Wars. The fact that we will come to own the Pass isn't even a deterrent, because Old Cannibal explicitly wants Manuel dead.

    Don't plan around what you think will happen, plan around the worst possible thing that could happen. In a stand up fight, Old Cannibal will cream us. A peak-Mid and an Early don't compare with a Late, a Mid, and two Earlies. The Tower of Spite is definitely not something that we could just reactivate like that without a Shadow Boon - and mind, even with a Shadow Boon it would have needed an action to bring online.
     
    Sparsebeard said:
    I mean, we don't even know if Old Cannibal would want to attack the Pass if it's under our control.
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    He absolutely would. He's certain that the best way to stop us is to beat Manuel through raw force. Which he possesses as a Late Nascent Soul with multiple Nascent subordinates. More than we possess in fact.

    He even has an expendable mid Nascent flunkie on him who is literally ideal for setting off any traps we could hypothetically set up in a single turn.

    And there would be no great loss for him to see Old Fish perish in the service of getting him a free shot at ruining Manuel's day.

    Lampshade said:
    Of course it won't be at maximum strength, but the base mechanism might still exist even without the support of SoHW, similar to how the legacies existed even without the Key.
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    I'm confused.

    If you're arguing that we can reactivate them...With what money? The expense to get the Obsidian Tower going again is, at minimum, comparable to the worth of the Shadow Key itself.

    How do you propose we afford that as well as pay to preparing against the Trials by the end of Turn 15? You cant seriously expect us to no sell Bhrigu and Old Cannibal in the same turn, surely?
     
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    Swordomatic said:
    Okay, but what happens if Old Cannibal decides to call the bluff?
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    Wouldn't OC be even easier to bluff, though? Why would Manuel stick his head out of the Desert when he could comfortably sit safe? Because it's a trap.
    TehChron said:
    You cant seriously expect us to no sell Bhrigu and Old Cannibal in the same turn, surely?
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    Well I wasn't going to, but now that you mention it, sometimes two wrongs do make a right. 🤔
     
    Swordomatic said:
    Okay, but what happens if Old Cannibal decides to call the bluff? We already know that the entire point of Old Cannibal's assault is to simultaneously starve us of income and cripple the Righteous Path's ability to prosecute their various Wars. The fact that we will come to own the Pass isn't even a deterrent, because Old Cannibal explicitly wants Manuel dead.

    Don't plan around what you think will happen, plan around the worst possible thing that could happen. In a stand up fight, Old Cannibal will cream us. A peak-Mid and an Early don't compare with a Late, a Mid, and two Earlies. The Tower of Spite is definitely not something that we could just reactivate like that without a Shadow Boon - and mind, even with a Shadow Boon it would have needed an action to bring online.
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    I mean, it's not like our pact protecting us from old cannibal will last that much longer anyway. If I remember correctly, raising a Late Nascent is a question of ressources as much as of techniques. The tower is probably a decent bid at finding a way for Manuel to raise to Late Nascent, but either way, it probably has good stuff enough to justify the invasion by itself.

    And even if Old Cannibal does ruin the pass... we'll have to rebuild it I guess? Worst come to worst we abandon the pass and go back to the desert.

    But in the likely option that Old Cannibal decides he has other cats to whip... the potential gain is there for us. And considering how Old Cannibal's past conflicts with us went, I'm not sure he wants to war us as soon as possible.
     
    Lampshade said:
    Wouldn't OC be even easier to bluff, though?
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    No.

    Old Cannibal had a whole Interlude where he had this big revelation that the best way to handle Manuel is to call his bluffs and bonk him over the head with mean force.
    Sparsebeard said:
    mean, it's not like our pact protecting us from old cannibal will last that much longer anyway. If I remember correctly, raising a Late Nascent is a question of ressources as much as of techniques. The tower is probably a decent bid at finding a way for Manuel to raise to Late Nascent, but either way, it probably has good stuff enough to justify the invasion by itself.
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    You guys really shouldn't be taking for granted that the Tower would be an immediately available resource

    That vote lost.

    I know, because I'm the one who spearheaded it in the first place.
     
    I mean, I think I'd rather fight Old Cannibal when we know the only place is the Pass than wait for the fast approaching end of the agreement keeping him out of the desert.

    It probably wouldn't be impossible to coordinate with the Federation to lure Old Cannibal into a trap in the pass if we can predict his attack in advance. We do have decent relations with the SPS and a history of collaborating with them.
     
    Sparsebeard said:
    I mean, I think I'd rather fight Old Cannibal when we know the only place is the Pass than wait for the fast approaching end of the agreement keeping him out of the desert.
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    Yeah but if we try and wait out that agreement we can potentially raise up a fourth Nascent Soul and get our Nascent tier Hoplite going. Meaning we can meaningfully engage him on our own terms.

    Manuel's strength is on prepared ground, not ground he hasnt actually done anything with when someone is willing to call him on his bluff.
     
    I don't understand how I noticed this so late:

    1) "If you invade the Footsteps willy-nilly, the Righteous Path Nascent Souls will band together and walk in there to force you out."
    2) "If you invade the Footsteps willy-nilly, scary Old Cannibal will come and get you."

    Oh dear. Will they now? Will they really? :D:D
     
    Lampshade said:
    Wouldn't OC be even easier to bluff, though? Why would Manuel stick his head out of the Desert when he could comfortably sit safe? Because it's a trap.
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    ...Or he's overexposing himself, because the Mountains are a region he has zero pre-placed supplies in and has few, if any means of punching up across Small Realms.

    The small chance that Manuel can activate the Obsidian Tower and equalise things against Old Cannibal is a risk mitigated by the fact that Old Cannibal can just suicide Old Fish in first, and then hit Manuel afterwards with the new information.
    Lampshade said:
    I don't understand how I noticed this so late:

    1) "If you invade the Footsteps willy-nilly, the Righteous Path Nascent Souls will band together and walk in there to force you out."
    2) "If you invade the Footsteps willy-nilly, scary Old Cannibal will come and get you."

    Oh dear. Will they now? Will they really? :D:D
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    What are you even talking about now? Invading it is one thing, keeping it has always been the problem. Stop playing coy and actually engage.
     
    Sparsebeard said:
    It probably wouldn't be impossible to coordinate with the Federation to lure Old Cannibal into a trap in the pass if we can predict his attack in advance. We do have decent relations with the SPS and a history of collaborating with them.
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    If your sole objective is killing Old Cannibal then sure, that could be attractive...But the gameboard is a bit wider than that, and we gain more by letting Old Cannibal continue to be the Blood Defiance Federations problem until that truce is up. We have already, and we will continue to until the Righteous Path can raise up more Nascent Souls to regain strategic parity.
    Lampshade said:
    Oh dear. Will they now? Will they really
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    Going into a Battle Royale with only two Nascents is something I'd be willing to try under easier circumstances, but during a Trial Turn is a bit much.
     
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