I plan on doing at least one mining op, any more would require inspiration from somewhere.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Pindorama
I'm pretty sure we'd just lose the eye again if we got it, I don't think it would be locked out. We might be tempted to get an Advancement that requires both eyes first though.
'Don't underestimate depth perception!'
More like death perception amirite
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Idk what this means or what I was trying to do with this, sorry
- Location
- Philippines
[X] Artemisinin
[X] Direct Mitigation
[X] Pillars of Creation
WAITED SO LONG.
YOU WERE BUT ONCE A RAGGED SHARD OF MORNING PAST, YET THROUGH VEILED MAJESTY YOU HAVE BECOME MORE THAN JUST EVENING'S GLOW.
GIVE ME MY COMF LIFE, PILLLLAAAAAARRERSSS.
Also if Artemisinin is actually a malaria fighting drug, maybe the next decimation mitigation will be named after whatever cure we get for other plagues.
And as was mentioned earlier, 21 days is great and all but it hasn't been quite explained how it meshes with Hunger Sated durations. 7 day reduction from the "month" long duration is a logical interpretation but as it stands, we might still be looking at needing almost double the Hunger Sated targets.
Unless we schedule Hunger Sating at the tail end of Evening Realm's duration to get the most time in mortal world.
Oof. Now it's got me wondering how the Apoc is going to thrust mortal plane shenanigans into our pocket dimension.
[X] Direct Mitigation
[X] Pillars of Creation
WAITED SO LONG.
YOU WERE BUT ONCE A RAGGED SHARD OF MORNING PAST, YET THROUGH VEILED MAJESTY YOU HAVE BECOME MORE THAN JUST EVENING'S GLOW.
GIVE ME MY COMF LIFE, PILLLLAAAAAARRERSSS.
Also if Artemisinin is actually a malaria fighting drug, maybe the next decimation mitigation will be named after whatever cure we get for other plagues.
And as was mentioned earlier, 21 days is great and all but it hasn't been quite explained how it meshes with Hunger Sated durations. 7 day reduction from the "month" long duration is a logical interpretation but as it stands, we might still be looking at needing almost double the Hunger Sated targets.
Unless we schedule Hunger Sating at the tail end of Evening Realm's duration to get the most time in mortal world.
Oof. Now it's got me wondering how the Apoc is going to thrust mortal plane shenanigans into our pocket dimension.
I bet Gisena'd be happy to build Hunger an 'always tell me the odds' Artifact, it might even make him dial down the risk-taking if how people reacted in the Temple's anything to go by. As for the dōjutsu from Kara no Kyoukai, the Power of Ruin pretty much suffices to replicate all of Shiki's feats, but we can always use more combat multipliers.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Oh, Conjured Blade is pushing for Elder Sign? I'll back that.
[X] Elder Sign
[X] Exalted Spirit
[X] Artemisinin
[X] Serendipity
Not voting for that Fisher King discount though, because I think a stage of mitigation is a lot more valuable then a handful of picks and Arete. Also pushing Serendipity cause I like Serendipity, Tsundere Apocryphal is fun, and I'm imagining a hypothetical world where we got Serendipity, and managed to get additional mitigations that increased the ratio of positive encounters to negative ones until we made the Apocryphal entirely beneficial. This would never be reached within the bounds of this quest, but imagining fully converted dere-dere Apocryphal is just hilarious. Direct Mitigation is probably a safer path though.
I also think we may be underestimating Foremost Blade. 4-pick encounters are bad, but imagine if we got another stage of mitigation that reduced the required difficulty to 3-pick fights. That would be a very big deal. Might not be possible within the scope of this quest (we're pretty high up on mitigation stages already), but you never know. And if we did get it down to 3-pick, well, that with Pillars is a curse fully mitigated. Imagine how proud Accursed-Sempai would be.
Foremost Blade is kinda mutually exclusive with Fisher King though (Foremost Blade requires fights while Fisher King requires fishing), while Artemisinin synergizes with Fisher King (both provide increased access to Hunger Sated targets, and likely stack). Although you could say that Fisher King is our short-term mitigation strategy and Foremost Blade is a long-term investment (we fish for mitigation while we wait for more mitigation stages to get Foremost Blade down to a 3-pick fight).
Anyway, IIRC Rihaku has flat-out stated that Elder Sign + Foremost Blade is worth considering, and I think there are good reasons for that.
[X] Elder Sign
[X] Exalted Spirit
[X] Artemisinin
[X] Serendipity
Not voting for that Fisher King discount though, because I think a stage of mitigation is a lot more valuable then a handful of picks and Arete. Also pushing Serendipity cause I like Serendipity, Tsundere Apocryphal is fun, and I'm imagining a hypothetical world where we got Serendipity, and managed to get additional mitigations that increased the ratio of positive encounters to negative ones until we made the Apocryphal entirely beneficial. This would never be reached within the bounds of this quest, but imagining fully converted dere-dere Apocryphal is just hilarious. Direct Mitigation is probably a safer path though.
I also think we may be underestimating Foremost Blade. 4-pick encounters are bad, but imagine if we got another stage of mitigation that reduced the required difficulty to 3-pick fights. That would be a very big deal. Might not be possible within the scope of this quest (we're pretty high up on mitigation stages already), but you never know. And if we did get it down to 3-pick, well, that with Pillars is a curse fully mitigated. Imagine how proud Accursed-Sempai would be.
Foremost Blade is kinda mutually exclusive with Fisher King though (Foremost Blade requires fights while Fisher King requires fishing), while Artemisinin synergizes with Fisher King (both provide increased access to Hunger Sated targets, and likely stack). Although you could say that Fisher King is our short-term mitigation strategy and Foremost Blade is a long-term investment (we fish for mitigation while we wait for more mitigation stages to get Foremost Blade down to a 3-pick fight).
Anyway, IIRC Rihaku has flat-out stated that Elder Sign + Foremost Blade is worth considering, and I think there are good reasons for that.
[X] Artemisinin
[X] Direct Mitigation
[X] Pillars of Creation
In absence of an arete windfall, l want this combo. If we had more arete, I'd prolly vote F-Blade instead of Artemisinin; as discussed, people really overfocus on the "4 picks gives mitigation!" aspect of it to the detriment of the actual strengths of that option.
I am also awfully tempted by OaF II, but I think this is a good time to just bite the bullet and buy Pillars.
[X] Direct Mitigation
[X] Pillars of Creation
In absence of an arete windfall, l want this combo. If we had more arete, I'd prolly vote F-Blade instead of Artemisinin; as discussed, people really overfocus on the "4 picks gives mitigation!" aspect of it to the detriment of the actual strengths of that option.
I am also awfully tempted by OaF II, but I think this is a good time to just bite the bullet and buy Pillars.
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Easily and with great gusto?
More seriously, there are a bunch of ways for it to intercede. Any time Hunger exerts active control over the realm of Evening, something could go wrong. A monster made to drop a specific Advancement is many times stronger than intended, maybe because it ate a bunch of reagents he'd previously prepared. Perhaps it'll throw him a curveball and create sapient denizens who want the realm's resources for themselves, and resent the intrusion. Or what about a nice planar predator from outside the Human Sphere's timestream, come to chow down on the entire dimension? That could be cool, all the actual power players have ascended beyond linear time anyway, so the Curse has a deep bench to draw on. It'll want to conserve credibility for that, but three weeks is time enough for things to get interesting.
...I hate to do this, because it'll probably split the vote of I'm right, but I had a thought, and I don't want it to be completely disregarded.
@Rihaku If Hunger were to unlock Bloodwraith, and all the forms up to Final Form, and a Bloodwraith equivalent for Wrath and any others between Shadow and Final, would a 4 pick fight have it's chance of death replaced with a chance of using the forms without actually decreasing the number of picks it's worth? And if so, is Pillars capable of manufacturing fights that would allow us to access to such advancements?
@Rihaku If Hunger were to unlock Bloodwraith, and all the forms up to Final Form, and a Bloodwraith equivalent for Wrath and any others between Shadow and Final, would a 4 pick fight have it's chance of death replaced with a chance of using the forms without actually decreasing the number of picks it's worth? And if so, is Pillars capable of manufacturing fights that would allow us to access to such advancements?
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Arte is better since we already have FK unlocked.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
While I was Indexing, I found some things of particular note in there regarding our power and the ISH. To summarise, we're currently at somewhere around 1.5 ISH for our speed as a baseline. That is to say, we're roughly half way to having our basic movement be at the level of a mythic demigod, dipping into the Realm of Forms when we put in any amount of effort. With Vigorflame Augmentation, that goes up to 1.6 (and likely higher as Aobaru continues to grow) and we know that both the Empyrean Signs and the Praxis can give access to permanent boosts to our ISH modifier. Between those, Refinement of Quickness and Once and Future 2, we'd have the casual speed of the Flash at his normal level with the burst speed necessary to exceed even his highest showings. Combined that with a Refinement to our Strength and we could tear right through an Armament or perhaps our Constitution for reusable tier 3 defense.
That's completely bonkers yonkers.
That's completely bonkers yonkers.
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The percentage boosts to AHS duration should stack additively if we go after piscine prey, which'll be nice. I agree that the discount's probably not very good value in the long term, since we don't know when Gisena will be capable of further mitigation. It's just tempting to get Fisher King here and be done, rather than having the 12 Arete already invested sitting around doing nothing. It's not even earning interest!
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
So, random off-topic thought. We know there are some people who choose to make Praxis their main magic system. However, the Praxis spells Hunger's been offered so far don't really lend themselves to being someone's mainstay. Refinement of Quickness and Artful Thorn both have high costs in a kind of "Existential Stamina," which prior to getting Tears of Winter (Adorie) made them un-spamable. Imagine trying to fight an army with Artful Thorn as your main combat spell - it wouldn't work, you'd tire yourself out before running out of enemies. Refinement of Battle is the only thing we've seen that is applicable in a wide variety of situations, and that's an EFB equivalent.
I think, therefore, that Hunger's Praxis spells are not representative of what a Praxis-specialist would use. Artful Thorn works very well as a boss killer, and Hunger has his other magic systems for dealing with anything else. Refinements of Place and Quickness were both clearly intended to address Hunger's lack of utility effects, specifically mobility. What Hunger was offered is not the stuff that a typical Praxis user would start with, but techniques that did things he couldn't do already.
I imagine a Praxis Main would probably use spells that were weaker, but had a lower stamina cost - or they would make use of several passive effects similar to Refinement of Battle but less... powerful/expensive (most practitioners are not going to be pulling out 25 Arete stuff when they start out). Alternatively, perhaps there are Praxis effects that fortify the user's self so that they can use more Praxis spells before being tired out, and until the practitioner gets one of those online their Praxis use is severely limited. It is supposed to be hard mode after all.
On another note, I'm thinking that the Accursed probably has some lesser remittances, artifact or ability, along the lines of Adorie's Bloodline that get handed out to Cursebearers that take Imperial Praxis as their primary.
I think, therefore, that Hunger's Praxis spells are not representative of what a Praxis-specialist would use. Artful Thorn works very well as a boss killer, and Hunger has his other magic systems for dealing with anything else. Refinements of Place and Quickness were both clearly intended to address Hunger's lack of utility effects, specifically mobility. What Hunger was offered is not the stuff that a typical Praxis user would start with, but techniques that did things he couldn't do already.
I imagine a Praxis Main would probably use spells that were weaker, but had a lower stamina cost - or they would make use of several passive effects similar to Refinement of Battle but less... powerful/expensive (most practitioners are not going to be pulling out 25 Arete stuff when they start out). Alternatively, perhaps there are Praxis effects that fortify the user's self so that they can use more Praxis spells before being tired out, and until the practitioner gets one of those online their Praxis use is severely limited. It is supposed to be hard mode after all.
On another note, I'm thinking that the Accursed probably has some lesser remittances, artifact or ability, along the lines of Adorie's Bloodline that get handed out to Cursebearers that take Imperial Praxis as their primary.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Still better to take Arte now since we benefit from compounding duration bonuses after getting Fisher King, rather than sacrifice a mitigation level just to save some picks and arete.
Yeah, tbh. An entire step worth of benefits going into effectively nowhere and nothing, while scaling further mutigation dfficulty one step further is a really shitty deal.
Let Fisher King progress proceed at its own pace.
Praxis forms are variable; for example, we know that RoB offers straight stat increases to practitioners who do not have good enough baseline stats to really get use out of multipliers.
Hunger simply has more use out of big honking Praxis Supermoves and Super Modes rather than lvl1 fireball equivalents - he has his Bladewinds for that - so his Praxis shapes itself accordingly to give him multipliers, super moves and pseudo-perfect defenses instead.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Also weird stuff like Refinement of Place and Unbound Severing as utility options.
Rihaku
The Internet
The Praxis can, with proper effort, manifest virtually any offensive or defensive effect, yes. The ones Hunger pursues are those suited to him and to the Sword Praxis.
Rihaku
The Internet
Pillars is certainly strong, but I think there's a very good case to be made for either OaF II or Elder Sign. OaF II provides both immediate power and future scaling, not just to your physical Attributes but your mental and social as well, and would make the task of repelling Aobaru's hunter considerably easier. It's a very good EFB-equivalent to take given your Arete generation bonus will be ending relatively soon and you may be harder up for EFB-equivalents in the future. Picks are nice but the number of Echoes required to equal even one OaF II grows laughably massive as you escalate on the ISH.
Also, while you do get 21 days inside the Realm of Evening now, remember that your Curses are not off for the duration, merely suppressed. Decimation will still decimate at a reduced rate if not sated, the Apocryphal will act in in the background, and so on and so forth.
Conversely, Elder Sign addresses one of Hunger's major capability gaps (versatility) in a potent way and at only half the cost of an EFB. Stronger summons, two summons at a time, two Nightmare Flights per day, and the ability to research further Signs himself can combine to give him a much greater capability base during downtime. Wouldn't you want to pull off some of Augustine's ludicrous treachery feats yourself?
Also, while you do get 21 days inside the Realm of Evening now, remember that your Curses are not off for the duration, merely suppressed. Decimation will still decimate at a reduced rate if not sated, the Apocryphal will act in in the background, and so on and so forth.
Conversely, Elder Sign addresses one of Hunger's major capability gaps (versatility) in a potent way and at only half the cost of an EFB. Stronger summons, two summons at a time, two Nightmare Flights per day, and the ability to research further Signs himself can combine to give him a much greater capability base during downtime. Wouldn't you want to pull off some of Augustine's ludicrous treachery feats yourself?
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
@Rihaku can we get some clarification on the Fisher King options? We got 3 picks from the fish which we spent towards it so the remaining cost on it should be 2 picks 12 Arete. But the options say that we need 3 picks for it. Also the mitigation option says that the cost with it would be 4 Arete but the towards option says 5 Arete. All in all it's super confusing.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Elder Sign is really good. We get:
Increased Power: Double SE summons adds up to a lot of combat power if we use it that way. Even if we stick to things weaker then Hunger, adding in two rank 7+ combatants can really help at lot.
Increased Versatility: Double SE summons also helps with broadening the things we can do. In addition, being able to use Progression on Signs without fighting adds another avenue of advance, one that's well geared towards broadening our options.
For something that's only 12 Arete, we're getting a lot out of it. Also if we save in other areas it puts us in range of Pillars at a later point, and it's two weeks until we can use Pillars anyway.
Increased Power: Double SE summons adds up to a lot of combat power if we use it that way. Even if we stick to things weaker then Hunger, adding in two rank 7+ combatants can really help at lot.
Increased Versatility: Double SE summons also helps with broadening the things we can do. In addition, being able to use Progression on Signs without fighting adds another avenue of advance, one that's well geared towards broadening our options.
For something that's only 12 Arete, we're getting a lot out of it. Also if we save in other areas it puts us in range of Pillars at a later point, and it's two weeks until we can use Pillars anyway.