A Simple Transaction I

Fumbles · Sep 21, 2020

There's suddenly quite a few Accursedbucks™ on the table, anyone know what Hunger might do with his (potential) renown?
It's been called useless and simultaneously the greatest possible asset.

Wolfy · Sep 21, 2020

Tyrant_Rayne said:
[X] Artemisinin
[X] Golden Hour
[X] Pillars of Creation

Fisher king getting cheapened is nice but after we actually get it the mitigation doesn't provide any value. Artemisinin has better long term value. Same goes for golden hour. I'd love to get serendipity if possible but pillars is to good to pass up.

That's not quite true - with 8 Arete and 1 pick you are basically getting an 7AP Advancement for free. That's quite significant. The question here is if Artemisinin is something you'd pay 7ap for.

I'd say yes.

ImperatorV said:
Aw man. I really want this because it's funny, but upgraded Pillars and Elder Sign are too good.

I say we either go Pillars + one pick towards Fisher King OR, if we can pull off 11 Arete before next update (unlikely), Pillars + Elder Sign.

Getting Pillars and Serendipity is in realm of possible, if we grind enough Arete. Would be quite good too, as we get 2/7 reduction in Apo, or about 28% reduction. Plus Favor!

ReaderOfFate · Sep 21, 2020

Time for me to vote.

[X] Artemisinin
[X] Elder Sign
[X] Pillars of Creation

We have 25 Arete right now, and this will be a contentious vote, so considering Aab's doubling 12 more Arete is feasible.

I picked the first because increasing the duration of Huntress's Moon is quite valuable, as is the increase in variety and decrease in average difficulty.

Serendipity is since it nullifies one Proc every seven on average, which is a really strong effect. Plus, there's a bit of a long-term bonus effect like Promise Kept had back then, but frankly that's mostly irrelevant compared to nullifying Apoc procs. Not even Direct Mitigation does that.

Pillars of Creation gives 21 days in the Realm of Evening every month. That speaks for itself, tbh, especially considering how pick-starved we are.

EDIT: Changed my vote since Serendipity is ded.

Dream Logic · Sep 21, 2020

Dumb question, Apocryphal counts the time we spend in Shroud but does time pass in the outside world?

Edit...nevermind...it's listed in the first two sentences.

ReaderOfFate · Sep 21, 2020

Dream Logic said:
Dumb question, Apocryphal counts the time we spend in Shroud but does time pass in the outside world?

Time doesn't pass while we're inside the Realm of Evening from an external perspective, yeah.

Simon_Jester · Sep 21, 2020

Wolfy said:
Fisher King vs Artemisinin is just question of how much you want Pillars to reduce our Decimation.

For me, the answer is "as much as possible", so I'm ready to pay that 8 Arete 1 pick for even better Hunger Sated with Pillars.

Like, you go from base 2 months to base 3 months. That's 50% increase right there. It's pretty good.

Could you lecture me a bit on this? I've kind of lost track of how things work.

If you'd rather not, I understand, though.

Unelemental · Sep 21, 2020

The choice of Advancement is not too difficult, wonder of wonders.

[X] Pillars of Creation

While the rest of them are quite delicious, and I might yet switch to Elder Sign if I convince myself that we can still earn enough Arete before the next Pillars activation, OaFII says itself in the blurb that it works best if the user already has some ISH +s, which we don't have that many of. Best to take it after we acquire some, especially in light of the ominous warnings about taking too many OaFs in quick succession.

Another possibility would have been Fisher King, but as others have said previously, it's best to get it after Pillars, so it isn't really a suitable choice at this point. We aren't in dire need of Decimator Mitigation right now either, since we have just hunted down the Armament-Fish, so it can wait.

Though, hmm, Pillars only needs a single pick and we have two. Does that mean we waste the pick? Or can we get some 1-pick advancement? Theoretically we could take Fisher King with Pillars, assuming we take the cost-reducing Mitigation option. Or Signs, but that's a bit too expensive for my tastes. It's quite powerful tho...

Oh well, I suppose Fisher King does go well with Pillars.

[X] Towards Fisher King

And since I'm doing that, taking the

[X] Fisher King

Curse Mitigation is practically a requirement. Would have liked to try out Foremost Blade if it didn't encourage our suicidal tendencies even more. And of the Apocryphal Mitigations, I think I like

[X] Golden Hour

the most. Serendipity is really funny, but it costs too much Arete. There's already too much I want to buy here... and while reducing average challenge difficulty is great despite the simplicity, I think I prefer the option that makes delayed procs less dangerous. Don't want to see what she is going to cook up if given the time...

Valkhir · Sep 21, 2020

[X] Artemisinin
[X] Golden Hour
[X] Pillars of Creation

Rihaku · Sep 21, 2020

Elder Sign + Foremost Blade is worth a strong look... especially combined with Fisher King, you could be looking at 12+ Accursed Favor less than two months into your Cursebearing life!

Sharkey_smt · Sep 21, 2020

[X] Artemisinin
[X] Golden Hour
[X] Pillars of Creation
Get pillars, don't care about the mitigation but Pillars is 21 days of training. The picks and build votes would last for weeks.

Wolfy · Sep 21, 2020

Simon_Jester said:
Could you lecture me a bit on this? I've kind of lost track of how things work.

If you'd rather not, I understand, though.

Among other things, Fisher King does the following:

Double the proc rate and mitigation effect of Huntress' Moon against fish-based targets

while Artemisinin does this:

*Reduces the median difficulty of Huntress' Moon targets by 20%
*Increases the variety of Huntress' Moon targets by 40%, Hunger will automatically choose from the most palatable options rather than listing them all
*Increases mitigation duration of a successful Huntress' Moon by 100%

Basically, both are Hunger Sated buffs. You can get just Fisher King(which has other effects too), or you can get Artemisinin and get Fisher King later.

So it's pretty much question of paying 8 arete and 2 picks to get Artemisinin. If you want even better* long term mitigation of Decimator get Artemisinin, if you think Fisher King is fine, you get Fisher King.

*Artemisinin reduces difficulty of getting Hunger Sated by 20% and increases duration from two to three months, so 50% more bang for our buck. Or, you need to Sate Hunger four rather than six time per month, ignoring Pillars time. It's quite a massive upgrade. Variety is not as important but it's still something

Simon_Jester · Sep 21, 2020

[X] Artemisinin
[X] Pillars of Creation

ReaderOfFate · Sep 21, 2020

You know, there's one large thing that I nearly forgot to ask.

Hey @Rihaku, how far are we to the end of the current lunar month? (i.e. when can we use Pillars.)

Because if it's far enough away, it may be wiser to pick up something else.

Wolfy · Sep 21, 2020

It's about two weeks of in game time iirc.

ReaderOfFate · Sep 21, 2020

Wolfy said:
It's about two weeks of in game time iirc.

Good to know. So far, but not immensely so.

Since we don't have any visible threats on the horizon at the current moment, I'm fine with getting Pillars now.

(As for Chains, we're delaying that until post-Human Sphere either way, so Pillars is valuable in that it helps us to outscale that foe.)

Wolfy · Sep 21, 2020

ReaderOfFate said:
Good to know. So far, but not immensely so.

Since we don't have any visible threats on the horizon at the current moment, I'm fine with getting Pillars now.

(As for Chains, we're delaying that until post-Human Sphere either way, so Pillars is valuable in that it helps us to outscale that foe.)

Yeah, current ZE PLAN would be something like Pillars into RR into Fisher King. Loads of long term scaling/problem solving, with some nice general upgrades to our ability. Afterwards we can get SitS for Not Dying, Elixir for utility and then just work on getting ISH buffs.

Zampano · Sep 21, 2020

ReaderOfFate said:
(As for Chains, we're delaying that until post-Human Sphere either way, so Pillars is valuable in that it helps us to outscale that foe.)

I envy your certainty. The foe from a Chains may already be on their way. An ambush during the VR's "apocalypse" to prevent us from Taking Albany might be perfect bait for the apocryphal curse to activate.

BrainInAJar · Sep 21, 2020

Hmm, it's been a very strong consensus towards Pillars, which I guess is understandable. Once and Future II wouldn't do much for us right now, while something like Foremost Blade plus Serendipity is undoubtedly good but pales in comparison to the benefits offered by Pillars even when combined. We have been needing more downtime anyway.

Wolfy · Sep 21, 2020

I would be all for Serendipity if we got enough Arete. Lots of value, Accursed's Favor and memes, whats not to like?

Pittauro · Sep 21, 2020

"

Rihaku said:
The decision was made, the bargain complete. He felt the weight of each Curse settle upon him like a leaden shroud. But alongside came a spark of power, swift and irrepressible, coursing through nerve and vein, awakening some part of the Hero that had been. Sublime electricity like a held breath, like the stillness before a storm, skin of the world so paper thin that with a fingertip's exertion he could brush through, touch the capillary-walls of the weft between realms.

He was not fully restored. Nowhere near the fullness of his power, still but a shadow of the man that he was, soul and memory tattered with holes. That was the cost in selfhood that he'd burned to strike down the overlord.

But it was strength enough to start again, and with strength came even a dull flicker of hope.

He was once a normal human. Throughout his adventures he achieved true strenght, and then sacrificed it on the altar of his cause. And now, after he was but a shadow of the hero he once was, he's getting some of his power back, and the promise of MUCH MORE in time.

It must feel really good for him. This is where he starts again.

Rihaku said:
When entire world had abandoned him, this being - cosmic monster, impossible horror, whatever it was - had reached out its hand. Whatever its reasons or timing, it alone had given him a chance. Had offered respite, or vengeance, to a tool so thoroughly expended that even the dim shadow of a future had seemed a faraway dream. He would not forget, that every tomorrow onward was possible only because of this being today.

"Thank you," he said, as it turned to leave. "I'll pay you back one day."

The Accursed raised an eyebrow, slight amusement in its eye. "See that you do."

Somehow he felt, despite the vast gulf between them - transcendent overbeing and depleted wretch - that those parting words were no cosmic transaction, but merely an agreement between men.

..I wonder, just how much accursed favour would one need to simply have a chat with him? asking him about his ideals, his story, triumphs and regrets..

The Accursed feels very human at times, and every human needs someone to confide in. Maybe he has a few trusted people among his high cursebearers?

Rihaku said:
And then the Accursed was gone, the world resuming its mundane pace, footsteps thudding outside his door. Soldiers come to collect his presumptive corpse.

He inhaled deeply, the tug of the Geas like a hook through his chest, and let it carry him forward, to another world than this.

Plenty of time for sentimentality if he survived. In the meantime there were other debts to pay. And these would not be so pleasant. To fulfill the mission of his vengeance, the first step was simple.

Live, and grow strong.

...come on, not even a "I'll Be Back!" before disappearing?!

Rihaku said:
There was no jarring transition. Barely had the impression of passage touched him before he arrived. He was standing on a hill of green grass under blue skies. The sun was stark and brilliant, a mailed fist of light bearing down. A breeze was blowing, cool and soothing but with the faintest scent of charcoal. He raised a hand to cover his eyes and took his bearings.

The mission of his Geas unfurled in his mind, the task upon which he'd wagered his life.

Conquer at least nine-tenths of the Human Sphere and rule for a period of no less than fifty contiguous years. Time limit: twenty-five hundred years.

He was unused to rulership, and his first attempts at politics would have killed him were it not for the Accursed's intercession. It would be a change of pace, to say the least.

Human Sphere. It implies there might be other races, other "Spheres" in this world. also damn, 2500 years!

At least we can take some time to learn the situation.

I really wonder just who decides this quests though. It's not the Accursed, but then who is it? Who profits from this?

Also just what kind of quests does the Accursed himself gets?

Rihaku said:
But how much at all remained of the man he'd been? His name, his titles, half the memories that comprised his identity had been burned from his soul in the final conflagration of his battle with the Tyrant. He recalled that he had come from Earth, a planet of sophisticated technology, born in a land of the far East... or was it the far West? He had been a schoolboy, on the precipice of manhood. He had stumbled into a glade. The contours of his mundane life remained, but its details slipped like raindrops through his fingers.

All those memories he'd sacrificed in order to hold more tightly onto what truly mattered. The names and faces of those who'd fought besides him. Who'd given themselves so that he could live, shell of a man that he was. Those he'd befriended. Those he'd admired. And those he had loved.

He would seek vengeance for them, and for himself. Whatsoever architects had engineered the misery inherent to their lives, he would cast them down. No matter how high their thrones, how unassailable their power, he would not rest until they lay broken before him. And he would bring back all who had died to the Tyrant, when he was strong enough to keep them safe. There would be power enough even for that, someday. Power enough and more, if he was to someday keep his promise to his benefactor.

Someday. If he survived. If he completed this mission, and all the missions before him. So he was to be a tyrant? So be it. But the time for deliberation had passed.

Eh, in this multiverse nothing is forever. One day he might even recover his lost memories if he cares enough for them. He probably won't at that point though, he's no longer the teenager he once was anyway.

Rihaku said:
There were more pressing concerns. A short sharp bark behind him, unnaturally loud, and he whirled to see a pack of armored creatures loping towards him, hyena-like mouths tasting the air. The frontmost pair charged, leaping forward with uncanny coordination, fangs bared and slavering.

Casually he adjusted his stance. The creature on his left sailed harmlessly by as he drove his bare fist into the one on his right. Its chest all but disintegrated, the shock of his strike describing a perfect circle of sky where its torso once was.

He twisted, reaching back with his hand to grab the first creature by the scruff, hurled it with catapult force into the ranks of its fellows, and leapt, falling like cannon fire into their midst. The force of those twin impacts sent the beasts into brief disarray, and he killed swiftly as they gathered, slaying three more before the pack regained its cohesion. Retreating slightly, they coalesced around him with an easy, dauntless fluidity, the dozen disjoint appendages of a single mind.

He'd never found any enjoyment in killing the Tyrant's men, offering surrender when practical. But he'd no such compunctions about the Tyrant's monsters. Despite himself, the once-hero smiled. It'd been too long since he'd killed something properly.

How quickly we found ourselves thrust into conflict! I could very well see us dying here if we took the Sword, ESPECIALLY if we also took intensify.

Rihaku said:
They sprang at him again, a whirlwind of fang and claw, but he swung his palm outward, neatly bisecting the creatures at his front, and shoulder-checked his way to the other side of their perimeter. Encirclement broken, the rest turned to flee. They didn't get far.

Supplies would be a factor, he mused. He wondered if these monsters were edible. But their bodies dissolved quickly, melting away in the few brief minutes of his scrutiny. Likely not edible, though it was unclear how exactly his status as a Cursebearer had altered his physiology.

oh, they dissolve just like this? This reminds me of Rwby's Grimms. Or most videogame mobs I guess.

Rihaku said:
A second pack approached, larger in numbers, though little more bothersome than the first. Still it seemed wise to track down and eliminate the source of these creatures before he began to tire. As he crested another hill, he could faintly make out a city on the horizon, smoke in countless tendrils twisting upwards from its walls. Grand spires of white stone jutted upwards from the fortifications.

Looming above were two grander figures still. The first was an wurm-like monster covered in armor plates, towering and vast, its top a grotesque cross of dragon and jackal, lower half a single muscular tail. It was locked in the throes of battle with a vaguely humanoid abomination, bipedal and armored as well.

A pang struck him at the sight of that second giant, as if the marrow in his bones had gained magnetic charge, pulling like a pointer hound in its direction. There was an affinity between them, not that of friends, not quite allies, but... a sense of camaraderie, as if in all of the vast, lonely universe they were the only two of their kind.

ah, the affliction-powered robot. I remember that one.

Rihaku said:
[ ] Humanitarian Efforts - The city is being pillaged or simply butchered by that creature's spawn. It appears to be struggling against its opponent, so there should be no need for you to intervene. Save as many lives as possible, rescue and evacuate civilians from the city and cull the ranks of the creature's horde. Best keep your distance from both abominations until you learn more. You don't quite trust this unnatural affinity. [+Charisma]

[ ] Cut Off The Head - The wurm-beast shares too many similarities with the hyena-creatures that attacked you for this chain of events to be a coincidence. Likely it sent those hunting packs because it could sense whatever link exists between you and its opponent. If it so badly desires to be your enemy, you will oblige. Though you wouldn't be confident against a monster of that scale at your current strength, you should at least be able to avoid becoming collateral damage. And it has little attention to spare for the likes of you. Helping your... comrade kill it should address the root of the problem.

---

mh... If we have Hunger, fighting the strongest enemy would likely mean quicker progression. On the other hand a +Charisma when we already have the Tyrant's Doom's malus is something that should really not be ignored.

Not essential if we get Gisena though.

Rihaku said:
This was a highly contested vote, but after reviewing everything the King's Scepter faction had an substantial lead in fanworks. Please decide the nature of your final build. You will meet any companions shortly (would have been present for the first battles with Sword, but Scepter crushes them easily).

In the hero's estimation he is still far from his peak, but his current strength is very respectable. Roughly equal to his power halfway through his journey against the Tyrant, more than enough to subdue a force of hundreds with his bare hand. Your decision below may modify this.

Rip Praxis, I never knew you.

Rihaku said:
[ ] King of Sorcerers - Expansive versatility at the cost of some direct power.

Seven Seals, Gisena Allria, Retinue, Forebear's Blade

*The most popular elements in one build
*Numerous sources of Curse mitigation
*Ability to bring in Retinue members and capitalize on character-unique synergies across Seals, Null Sorcery, and any magics or special technologies present here
*Powerful active defense and counterattack potential. Great utility from Seals.
*Direct offense slightly lacking.

I still regret Battle Magic losing. Sure, it's hard capped, but It's unlikely we would have reached that limit soon anyway, and abusing Rules As Written can be pretty fun.

I Really like Retinue, I'm not completely sure about Forebear's blade. Gisena is a must. Seven Seals... as I already said I don't really like it much.

Also I know Gisena, Hunger and Accretion win, so I know this plan lost.

Rihaku said:
[ ] Twice-Great - Magus-knight and apprentice.

Seven Seals, Caethlynn of Amarlt, Hunger, Forebear's Blade

*Pay forward the Accursed's gift.
*Advance rapidly with Hunger, use the fruits of that growth to improve your seals of enhancement. Use said seals on yourself and Catherine to produce two formidable combatants. She scales as you do, and Hunger scales quickly.
*Catherine with your buffs is a superior physical force, while you retain the utility of sealing for support and counter-utility.
*Decent mitigation with the Forebear's Blade.
*Would be awfully convenient if one needed a spare pilot for some form of biomechanical abomination.

It lacks Gisena. Hard Pass.

Getting a Pilot for the giant robot is admittedly tempting though.

Rihaku said:
[ ] Luna Conquerer

Accretion, Gisena Allria, Hunger, Forebear's Blade

*The highest synergy of the popular Accretion elements
*Very high power, but somewhat lacks proactive utility. Accretion + Hunger + Forebear's Blade allows for a rapid rate of advance which means easier access to findross for Gisena if you can figure out the method.
*Strong through every stage of early, mid, and late game, so long as you have straightforward challenges.
*Accretion gives some natural resistance to the Apocryphal Curse which Gisena can also mitigate

Ah, so here it is. The winner. I'm not 100% convinced by Forebear's blade, but I suppose that if we're going to progress mostly through fighting it makes sense to also acquite loot drops. Shame it doesn't get Retinue though.

Also there's REALLY no love for the Prolessarch. Liches are cool, as Nameless' extrusion could say to you.

But yeah, I'd probably have voted for this one, or maybe King of Sorcerers. If only we had one more lesser remittance to add Retinue here... A Scaling Gisena means Scaling curse mitigation after all!

Sure, we can probably find other ways to boost her, but giving her a fourth of a Progression type's progression speed? Very few things could keep up with that, especially long term!

Rihaku said:
[ ] Muscle Wizard

Accretion, Intensify, Retinue, Relinquishment

*The ultimate option, the destined path
*Just look at the thread tags
*Use Intensify to magnify the power of Accretion while narrowing its scope...
*Allows the power of Accretion to be applied to one's body itself, at the cost of locking it otherwise. Grants a broad and powerful defense against esoteric and mundane attacks.
*The hero's missing bodyparts make his body more unique and recognizable, and thus most suited to this unique path.
*Lategame, uses Retinue synergies to magnify his training in the pursuit of supreme perfection of body.
*Retains the fighting style he displays in this update, though with higher parameters when he gets serious (otherwise, this update is just the hero fooling around)
*Very powerful early and late, but weak midgame. Will more effectively complete present objectives.
*Extremely degenerate

There were gonna be a few other votes, like the hero's pseudonym and logistical issues, but we'll sort those out when they come up.

...what is this? just what the fuck is this? You degenerates! Who'd be so sick to vote for this?

Isn't it enough that our cursebear has to bear these curses for near eternity? You'd also condemn him to stay a cripple?

And that's without also considering the MUSCLE WIZARD part, that I don't think needs words on my part.

Shame on you all. I thought better of you.

611 words

Zfglx · Sep 21, 2020

Foremost Blade would be nice. I wonder if true mitigation is reducing the need to absorb or eventually cancelling it.

HoratioVonBecker · Sep 21, 2020

[X] Foremost Blade
[X] Serendipity

And, because it's the cheapest major boost I can think of right now:
[X] Iridescence

Pillars would be real nice, but probably we can haggle for something and get it. Oh, or try mildly unsafe bloodcasting to unlock Adorie's bloodline, like how we first got offered Ennobling!

Projectile · Sep 21, 2020

[X] Artemisinin
[X] Direct Mitigation
[X] Pillars of Creation

Pillars is still a bit away, but I'd rather grab it while we're sure there's a pick available. For Apo-chan, I don't want to put faith in being smarter than her, let's just keep hammering. Decimation is the opposite, Moon is good. Both the Arete-hungry mitigations are amazing, but P I L L A R S.

Aabcehmu · Sep 21, 2020

For the sake of Pillars + Elder Signs, I'll get to work on Ruby.

HeWhoAdds · Sep 21, 2020

Pillars can generate pick-worthy opponents, right? can it make a Hunter's Moon target?

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