A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
TwistedJester
Tired Lurker King
- Location
- Hell
1- Even Further Beyond
2- A Simple Transaction I
3- A Simple Transaction
4- Bleach Quest
5- Terrascape
6- Jonin Quest
7- The War of Kings
8- The Odyssey
9- Magus Quest
10- They Called Me Mad
11- Unnamed Quest
12- Make A Contract With Me
13- Dawn of Wizardry
2- A Simple Transaction I
3- A Simple Transaction
4- Bleach Quest
5- Terrascape
6- Jonin Quest
7- The War of Kings
8- The Odyssey
9- Magus Quest
10- They Called Me Mad
11- Unnamed Quest
12- Make A Contract With Me
13- Dawn of Wizardry
Competent my ass. He send his adopted daughter to infiltrate the hero`s party. That is like begging for a fated love proc. He should have stuck to reading Evil Overlord list rather than being chuuni 'Tyrant'.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Hm, this vote is tough... As a proud Maeg Gang member, I have to consider what each EFB could mean for the future of magic in this quest.
I can't decide if Renaissance Woman is good or bad for magic. On the one hand, with Total Eclipse Gisena could develop Graces which we could then duplicate with Edeldross, probably accelerating our advancement in Edeldross significantly. Philosopher's Wreath would also be very synergistic with this choice, we have a companion that has an EFB pure potential magic system, accelerating her growth rate is only natural, and PW applied to Edeldross would allow us to get more powerful and varied Graces. If people don't want to use PW on Edeldross we could pick up yet another magic system instead, which would also be sweet.
OTOH, perhaps if we get Renaissance Woman certain factions might argue that she has an EFB Magic System, we can offload all magic duties to her and focus on sword, which I would despise with the fury of ten thousand suns. There's also the possibility that people would argue against PW, stating that Gisena is powerful enough already she doesn't need any more help.
All-Defeating Stance is also hard to categorize. On the one hand, filthy sord option. On the other hand, Allstance essentially solves combat for a while. We wouldn't need any more sword-type options at all, because we'd be fine in combat. Perhaps then we could spend into magic systems instead, as while All-Defeating is amazing at combat power and quite strong at social, it does little outside of that, meaning that we'd need utility and versatility more. However, Allstance commits us to getting a third Forebear EFB, probably Once and Future. That's 24 Arete that people are going to want to spend on non-mage options. There's also the possibility that people would vote for more sword options even if we don't really need more combat power, which is disgusting and I hate it.
Finally, Crimson Flare is rather neutral on mage-options. It doesn't encourage or discourage them. I have seen some people arguing for us getting Total Eclipse after Crimson Flare, which is a promising sign. OTOH, maybe if we get Crimson Flare and then rescue the Azure Ring people will want to focus on the expanded blood manipulation powers, which I find inferior to other magic types.
Overall, it's hard to tell, because a lot will depend on what people do after this vote. So, a question for you all: how does the way this vote turns out affect how you'll vote regarding mage-type build choices in the future?
I can't decide if Renaissance Woman is good or bad for magic. On the one hand, with Total Eclipse Gisena could develop Graces which we could then duplicate with Edeldross, probably accelerating our advancement in Edeldross significantly. Philosopher's Wreath would also be very synergistic with this choice, we have a companion that has an EFB pure potential magic system, accelerating her growth rate is only natural, and PW applied to Edeldross would allow us to get more powerful and varied Graces. If people don't want to use PW on Edeldross we could pick up yet another magic system instead, which would also be sweet.
OTOH, perhaps if we get Renaissance Woman certain factions might argue that she has an EFB Magic System, we can offload all magic duties to her and focus on sword, which I would despise with the fury of ten thousand suns. There's also the possibility that people would argue against PW, stating that Gisena is powerful enough already she doesn't need any more help.
All-Defeating Stance is also hard to categorize. On the one hand, filthy sord option. On the other hand, Allstance essentially solves combat for a while. We wouldn't need any more sword-type options at all, because we'd be fine in combat. Perhaps then we could spend into magic systems instead, as while All-Defeating is amazing at combat power and quite strong at social, it does little outside of that, meaning that we'd need utility and versatility more. However, Allstance commits us to getting a third Forebear EFB, probably Once and Future. That's 24 Arete that people are going to want to spend on non-mage options. There's also the possibility that people would vote for more sword options even if we don't really need more combat power, which is disgusting and I hate it.
Finally, Crimson Flare is rather neutral on mage-options. It doesn't encourage or discourage them. I have seen some people arguing for us getting Total Eclipse after Crimson Flare, which is a promising sign. OTOH, maybe if we get Crimson Flare and then rescue the Azure Ring people will want to focus on the expanded blood manipulation powers, which I find inferior to other magic types.
Overall, it's hard to tell, because a lot will depend on what people do after this vote. So, a question for you all: how does the way this vote turns out affect how you'll vote regarding mage-type build choices in the future?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
So for all the magic enthusiasts in the room, beating the temple with all-defeating stance like this massively raises the possibility our next apocryphal nemesis will be a mage/inner temple resident or outrider once Apocrypha catches up to us again. Odds are that'll provoke a lot of (Edit: Magic) picks or give us genuinely weird problems that need to be solved via subtlety and magical research.
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- Location
- The savanna.
Thanks, CB. Voted in a hurry and logged off last night, so it's argument time: I'm just so done with the Temple arc, guys. How long have we been stuck here? I know I voted to get us into this shit in the first place but right now, as I've said before? I just want to blow this thing and go home. ADS is a vote to win. Fuck the Inners, fuck whatever ring-derived powerups they have tucked away, fuck everything about this bullshit powered by a forsaken child setup they've got going.
Just Cut Through. It's not even about the sword memes, I was team precious before it became clear we're not gonna go for the Ruling Ring. It's about picking the option with the highest chance of victory.
Think how epic the scene would be. Hunger fighting against the entire Temple, effectively soloing a civilization. That's some Lancelot versus the Army of the King shit, the King literally Standing Alone. That's something we'll reference for years to come. That's something that gets us Rank.
Just Cut Through. It's not even about the sword memes, I was team precious before it became clear we're not gonna go for the Ruling Ring. It's about picking the option with the highest chance of victory.
Think how epic the scene would be. Hunger fighting against the entire Temple, effectively soloing a civilization. That's some Lancelot versus the Army of the King shit, the King literally Standing Alone. That's something we'll reference for years to come. That's something that gets us Rank.
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- Location
- Philippines
I mean, I'm still shilling for Crimson Flare but All Defeating Stance ain't limited to just Combat and Social.
Literally "All-Defeating"
Per Blurb:
"All external effects natural or supernatural which would harm, impede or negatively alter the wielder must contest the amplified Power of Ruin or be destroyed before reaching the wielder. Effectively the character automatically applies an incredibly powerful conceptual-level counterattack against all hostile effects."
All External Hostile Effects. So all types of combat, and everything outside of Combat. This also includes plans/schemes/capital C Curses. It even proactively fucks over attempts at trying to Go Against Hunger.
It's an actual [ ] I Win vote, at least until Ring Battle of Crimson vs Azure for primacy. (the last part is conjecture)
Literally "All-Defeating"
Per Blurb:
"All external effects natural or supernatural which would harm, impede or negatively alter the wielder must contest the amplified Power of Ruin or be destroyed before reaching the wielder. Effectively the character automatically applies an incredibly powerful conceptual-level counterattack against all hostile effects."
All External Hostile Effects. So all types of combat, and everything outside of Combat. This also includes plans/schemes/capital C Curses. It even proactively fucks over attempts at trying to Go Against Hunger.
It's an actual [ ] I Win vote, at least until Ring Battle of Crimson vs Azure for primacy. (the last part is conjecture)
- Location
- Brazil
It should be kept in mind the all-defeating encourages taking Once and Future next, and likely people will grab pillars later. Unfortunately, I don't think all-defeating bodes well for magic-gang
People, don`t you wish to give your hypothalamus a rest. We have been fighting an uphill battle the whole Temple sequence. If you vote Ring, we still have to fight and not be overpowered.
If you vote Gisena, we will still fight and not be overpowered. Don`t you wish for a little bit of rest. People that voted maximum security last vote, here is the ultimate maximum security.
Get All-Defeating and actually have a moment to breathe. We have been mad dashing from one almost suicidal fight to the next. The wyrm in the outer, one thrust guy in the middle and now a High Marshall that is 2.2 Ranks higher than us.
Don`t you wish to be done with this god forsaken place and actually not be scared when Rihaku delays the update after a risky choice.
Vote All-Defeating stance and enjoy the smell of SYNERGY.
If you vote ring, you have to contend with SORD and RING and fixing issues in build(magic and normal defense) rather than just focusing a bit on utility.
If you vote Gisena, we will still fight and not be overpowered. Don`t you wish for a little bit of rest. People that voted maximum security last vote, here is the ultimate maximum security.
Get All-Defeating and actually have a moment to breathe. We have been mad dashing from one almost suicidal fight to the next. The wyrm in the outer, one thrust guy in the middle and now a High Marshall that is 2.2 Ranks higher than us.
Don`t you wish to be done with this god forsaken place and actually not be scared when Rihaku delays the update after a risky choice.
Vote All-Defeating stance and enjoy the smell of SYNERGY.
I think it does, we would not have to worry for every next opponent and try to grab some suboptimal pick just to survive by sliver. And so on and on. Rihaku himself said it that this will provide defense and with Cut Through we will have the offense part almost down.
If you vote ring, you have to contend with SORD and RING and fixing issues in build(magic and normal defense) rather than just focusing a bit on utility.
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- Location
- Italy
Well, both Crimson Flare and Ruling Ring are technically a magic system with widespread esoteric effects following a theme (pretty explicitly inspired by LotR magic from what I understand, though a person more informed than might deny/confirm this). If that isn't enough, I can also promise that if we get Crimson Flare now our next ESB will almost certainly be an Evening Sky one, and currently two out of three of those are magic-focused. By taking All-Defeating Stance we would commit on getting a third Sword EFB after that for the bonus, while by taking Reinassance I think a good bunch of the voters would still want to buy Crimson Flare to get the bonuses out of the Azure Ring, so either of those options winning would probably delay an Evening Sky EFB by quite a lot.
So, technically, voting for Crimson Ring gives the higher chance to get a magic-focused ESB right after, and those are the most valuable mage-option you should be looking for.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
Really? At cognitohazard levels of social, she sounds better at general security - including from Armaments, which are the next major threat after the Voyaging Realm.
While individually strong, we could be ambushed too fast for her to interfere or attacked while she is gone. ADS on the other hand is automatic and applies even if we are asleep, etc.
I am sure a social memetic hazard will help agains Astral Beast - the actual major threat in the Voyaging Realm. /SARCASM
Social does not help agains mindless beasts and robots. All-Defeating does.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Gisena mostly trivializes the infiltration of the Temple, at which point picking it off piecemeal becomes incredibly simple. It's less in-your-face about it, but it provides a similar degree of safety to ADS for this assignment.
- Location
- Italy
We're just getting back to it, even we even went to a nice vacation in the middle of it too!
Honestly though I do understand the feeling even if for entirely different reasons. We've been fighting (and voting) for Crimson Flare for three whole votes! What's next? We manage to win this one too by copious amount of discussion, miracolously reach 30 Arete before next update, and Rihaku offers us a fantastic new super-EFB choice to vote for instead of Crimson Flare? And also, if All-Defeating Stance was so good, why didn't we just spend for the lesser Stances last update to build towards it in a less stressful way? Oh, that's right, because that wasn't the plan.
And the plan is still good, we just need to stick by it instead of running off for other options at the last moment, Avecarn was only a danger before getting an EFB and getting Crimson Flare brings our chance just lower of buying two Stances that would have been highly synergistic for the occasion (we have a possibility of winning higher than Somewhat Safe and just lower than Maximum Safety, with probably even higher chances of survival) plus we had three updates worth of tacting for stacking the dice in our favor. We have planned this out, it wasn't like Vanreir that completely blindsided us and had far higher risk of things ending badly.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
Yes and no. A lot of her social stuff is passive, because apparently there's a universal beauty standard in this setting.
Ah. I think you might actually be wrong, there. The pretty girl charming monsters with her beauty is too much an archetype to discount, in my mind.
Also, don't forget that it hypercharges her nullity and stats. I kind of suspect Renaissance Woman Gisena could beat Current Hunger, provided he didn't actually kill her with Cut Through.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Given how much I've been talking about Hunger/Gisena Kismessitude, there is a very real possibility I will put my money where my mouth is and back giving her the ring of the False Moon if Renaissance Woman wins(We can't be stuck as her servant forever if we're competing with her). I still have 2 people I can call on for markers, 1 of which is veto free and I'm behind on my reaction post writing.
For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, here's a scene from late Homestuck where Karkat explains the concept to John: Homestuck
Here's the earlier amalgamated explanation of the Troll paradigm of Romance: Homestuck
I am not sure it would get much rank seeing as I am pretty sure I remember Rihaku stating it trivializes the temple. While it would be a decently epic scene if it is not a truly difficult feat can you say with certainty it would get us much rank? After all most times we have gotten rank were after being left on the verge of death or beating someone that should probably win in a straight up fight. I am all for more rank, but I don't think we can just assume that ADS equals victory equals more rank because if that is so what is the point of the rank bonus one Crimson Flare.
...is Renaissance Woman Gisena somehow warping the mind of the people, to always think she will win with 'muh social'.
Shit, she is a Mary Sue. Kill it with Fire!
Now a bit more serious - her Graces will not come online for some time and the social thing is ridiculously overblown. How can she deal with automatic defenses or robots? Also you cannot defend yourself if you don`t know the attack is coming. AD stance is automatic which opens some interesting tactics.
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Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
I wanted to draw something, but I'm terrible at art, so I wrote an omake instead. Wordcount: 4
