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A Simple Transaction I

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Talace said:
Whoa, I missed the winning vote options somehow.

Two hands make a fist! Well, two fists really.
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Three fists, once we buy the 'set Inksky control equal to Dexterity' advancement!
Dark Abstraction said:
It started with someone being impressed with Unelemental's bit reaction post and Orm saying "Unelementalism is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural." and then being like "Hmm, what about magics based on players?"
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Thank you! I'll hopefully have something to share regarding the spreadsheet tomorrow.
 
Rihaku said:
Inksky is great, its discount amazing, but unlike Quickwater and Edeldross it doesn't really grant access to a full suite of 'magic system' effects on its own. You can take further Advancements to get some of those effects, but those Advancements will have to compete with Blood Advancements as well
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Yeah but how likely is it that we will find something else able to fix evening sky as effectively without taking a defining that has penalties. Hell taking this means it will cost that much less to fix the growth rate of the other two stats we nerfed and maybe we can go the extra mile and just forget luck making fixing wisdom that much more likely.
 
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Inksky's discount towards Pillars is pretty key if we have any long-term plans towards that special three EFB advancement. It might be its best bonus. Not having as much utility effects as the other two is not as important now that we have the Praxis; and having even more great Advancements is not a negative in my book. Plus, we have already put so many picks and Arete into the Ring and especially the Blade; let's give the Evening Sky some love, yeah?
 
I mean.

Imagine a new conjunctional or Evening Sky and Forebear's Blade.

All within our purview is protected. All without is cut through.

That's some tyrannical (heh) shit.
 
Sara said:
Remember kids, always listen to Imperia and never accidentally half the island or she'll send her dog after you.
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Or worse, herself!

Shard said:
Catherine Catherine, what secrets do you hold? What emotional regrets are there to be had?
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Hope you don't have to kill her when the Republic deploys Procyon against you... but given the Tyrant's Doom, you may have no choice.

Raydom said:
Damm then that's preety good in the long term then, i'm not to sure on the details of accreation.
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You probably won't need to worry about High Elementalism not operating in other universes, regardless of which option you pick.

Talace said:
Whoa, I missed the winning vote options somehow.

Two hands make a fist! Well, two fists really.
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I edited 'em in.

Aabcehmu said:
Arguably, the lack of an additional magic system is sort of a benefit, from the perspective of some questers (myself included), even if it isn't strictly positive from a strategic sense.

Fundamentally, improvements to Hunger's strength fall on an axis between diversification and consolidation, and on a narrative level I think a good portion of us are leaning in the direction of consolidation, at least at the moment.
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Don't you want access to estoeric effects before consolidating?
 
The kids call it High Elementalism, we call it Surgecraft. Who's wrong, and why?

Rihaku said:
You probably won't need to worry about High Elementalism not operating in other universes, regardless of which option you pick.
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Probably. Which means the next universe we get plopped into is one without any narrative or conception of legend.
 
Rihaku said:
Don't you want access to estoeric effects before consolidating?
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Not necessarily! Again, it's a narrative reasoning rather than a strategic one, and on a narrative level, having a cycle of consolidation to really tighten up Hunger's core panoply into a clear, concise textual-silhouette is satisfying and I think will make further steps on his path to vengeance both more digestible and give them more room for nuance.
 
Like, damn, even without counting the Special Advancements which are likely to be some shit, it already makes the picks we have available double in value. Finally, Opalescence and Iridescence will have time to shine!
Microwave MKII said:
[X] The Kaguya
[X] 7 Arete Version
[X] Edeldross
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Good argument for Kaguya, but can I convince you to vote for Inksky to make our starlight cloak even cooler?

[X] The Kaguya
[X] 7 Arete Version
[X] Inksky
 
[X] The Kaguya
[X] 7 Arete Version
[X] Edeldross

Decided pillars commitment is a weak reason to vote for Inksky and the all stats stuff from Edeldross is great; also really really like the ability to end fights between lesser combatants non-violently considering we just picked up a magic power fully focused on murder
 
Rihaku said:
Hope you don't have to kill her when the Republic deploys Procyon against you... but given the Tyrant's Doom, you may have no choice.
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I was wondering whether she was around, and alive. Maybe we can pre-empt conflict and seek her out. Or build with a non lethal take down in mind, cause it would be pretty traumatic for Hunger to kill his dead wife's alternate universe self (do I have this right). Still definitely something to think about on the horizon.

[X] The Kaguya
[X] 7 Arete Version
[X] Inksky
 
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Hey, I'm pretty sure the Praxis is actually great at non-violence! It excels at protection after all. Part of having a tool of murder is knowing when to use it.
 
Let's compare the benefits mechanically!

Quickwater: Under spontaneous conditions, +++++++++++++++AGI, +.1 Rank or ++++Stealth; under ideal conditions, +30 AGI, +.25 Rank, enemies suffer -.25 Rank, plus you have either ++++Stealth or a super flashbang potion on top of that.

Inksky: +1.4 Protection and Charisma, Heal Evening Sky as an action, Evening Sky acts as an additional crude appendage in battle. 5 Arete Discount to the EBB-equivalent you're likely aiming for after Ruling Ring, a discount you will not benefit from for some time.

Edeldross: ++++++AGI, ++++++Might, +1.4 Willpower (and thus additional Agi/Might), +Int/Cha/Luck/Wis/Prot/ etc, +20% buff to allies with training. Flight, Nullity Shields, Intercepting Shields, No Collateral Damage Blasts / Less Lethal Tyrant Procs, +Relationships, 1 Arete Discount to Total Eclipse, Replicate Graces given time.

Not Dying gang, it's clear that Quickwater and Edeldross are your best bets. Not only do they improve your own parameters notably, they also let you buff your allies! Just imagine how much more effective Gisena would be with +50% Agi and +.1 Rank, or +20% All Stats!
 
Competition between Sword, Blood, and Sky is a good problem to have. But I think the real benefits in terms of both escape and non-lethal aggression from Edeldross are being understated. We're like a first-person shooter, we interact with the world primarily through our sword. While there's clear appeal in cowing the world with overwhelming might, greater ability to preserve life has major advantages. Protection, information, ransom, recruitment... Control must follow Will as surely as Might follows Insight. The cycle can be subverted but never broken.

edit: ninja'd by George
 
Aabcehmu said:
Does anyone know roughly when the 'magic systems based on questers' train started? I'm going to make a new spreadsheet and populate it with info from that, so that we can keep that rolling.
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Here:
Orm Embar said:
Unelementalism is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural.

Man, generating magic systems based on specific voters would make for an amusing - if way too meta - omake! Woe to any who oppose a master of all Three Hundred and Sixty Runes or challenge the Vermilion Legion. Then there's Shardcraft, potent in direct combat, but picking up the pieces means it's weak in back-to-back battles without rapid reassembly techniques. The Imperial Numerals and Valiance are both legendary, though given the stringent unlock conditions the latter's almost a lost art!
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Anyway, now I'm really thorn. All options are too good!
 
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Rihaku said:
Let's compare the benefits mechanically!

Quickwater: Under spontaneous conditions, +++++++++++++++AGI, +.1 Rank or ++++Stealth; under ideal conditions, +30 AGI, +.25 Rank, enemies suffer -.25 Rank, plus you have either ++++Stealth or a super flashbang potion on top of that.

Inksky: +1.4 Protection and Charisma, Heal Evening Sky as an action, Evening Sky acts as an additional crude appendage in battle. 5 Arete Discount to the EBB-equivalent you're likely aiming for after Ruling Ring, a discount you will not benefit from for some time.

Edeldross: ++++++AGI, ++++++Might, +1.4 Willpower (and thus additional Agi/Might), +Int/Cha/Luck/Wis/Prot/ etc, +20% buff to allies with training. Flight, Nullity Shields, Intercepting Shields, No Collateral Damage Blasts / Less Lethal Tyrant Procs, +Relationships, 1 Arete Discount to Total Eclipse, Replicate Graces given time.

Not Dying gang, it's clear that Quickwater and Edeldross are your best bets. Not only do they improve your own parameters notably, they also let you buff your allies! Just imagine how much more effective Gisena would be with +50% Agi and +.1 Rank, or +20% All Stats!
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Don't forget the sweet, sweet, highly efficient advancements! The blood advancements are ridiculously efficient, I can only imagine how good the Evening Sky ones would be for making us Not Die.
 
Amalgamated musings:

[ ] Quickwater: The moon-graced elixir of formless clarion, whose dewdrops are stars and mist the constellation, its falling rain the cosmos come plunging to earth. In its simplest form, a fog of quickwater conveys pitiless, whimsical speed, swiftness like an ink-blur trail. Dimmed, it conveys the quiet speed of an assassin's moon; heightened, it scours vision away like ten thousand blazing suns. Congealed into tenuous solidity, its potions may confer all manner of transformation, many of them swiftly lethal. Take care when wielding its ten thousand variations, for it acknowledges neither liege nor master, only the primacy of the moment.

Hunger's imaginary Element is determined by his practicality. He requires immediate power and access to esoteric effects; this provides both.

Quickwater mist grants +50% AGI, +.1 Rank, and a degree of concealment to its creator when within its bounds; increasing density over time can improve this to +100% AGI, +.25 Rank with preparation. A symmetrical Rank penalty is applied to others inside, including allies. Bonuses can be further developed with training.
~Quickwater potions can be imbibed for similar effect, but require constant effort to stabilize in coherent liquid form.
~Variations currently available: Assassin's Mist provides ++++Stealth instead of Rank; Blinding Mist grants exceptional "concealment" by outputting enormous quantities of light. Mist type may be switched every moonrise, or potions concocted in advance, though with the usual stipulations. Some means of overcoming sleep may be necessary to keep potions stable through the night...
~Experimentation can yield vast varieties of different mist with varying effects. The transformations of Quickwater are as endless as the realm of dreams. Take care that you do not wander into the distaff plane of nightmare.
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Dream Thematics possibly connected to Dead but Dreaming: A Simple Transaction I Original
Zabuza/Coldbriar/Alchemist Aesthetic, Assassin's Mist is a thing for a reason and lets us have another shot at King of Thieves style shenanigans
50 Percent agility boost at our level is batshit insane
Research is dangerous enough to trigger Hunger based Ring Advancements: A Simple Transaction I Original
Potions can be given to other people
Conjunctional Advancement for Creation of Bloodmist Exists: A Simple Transaction I Original
Can give enemies rank debuffs

[ ] Inksky: Nothing less than the semi-sentient symbiotic substance of the Evening Sky itself. With this, the mantle's power is amplified threefold: suffused at a greater density, it provides more overall benefits; with its master capable of healing it, it can swiftly regenerate from depletion; and through the crude manipulation of High Elementalism it can be brought to bear as lash or aegis against one's enemies, curling around to stifle, trip, smother and crush.

Hunger's Imaginary Element is determined by his panoply.

Single Receptacle: Rather than firing blasts of inksky himself, Hunger manifests all instances of High Elementalism through the vessel of the Evening Sky, allowing it to benefit from Accretion. +100% to the Protection and Charisma granted by the Evening Sky. Unlocks a number of highly efficient Evening Sky Advancements dealing with the domains of space, night, majesty and magic.

Discounts Pillars of Creation by 5 Arete.
-Hunger may take an action to repair the Evening Sky; amount repairs depends on the total +Protection granted and his own ability in High Elementalism
-Hunger may directly manipulate the Evening Sky as an extra appendage, though control is crude until trained.
With time, the cloak could expand to truly cosmic size: become the evening sky in truth!
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Majesty... SOCIAL POWERS
Space... TELEPORTATION, possibly faster than we can get it with Cut Through
Not sure about the Night and Magic advancements and what they give us
Extremely Cheap from an Arete standpoint via a generous Pillars of Creation Discount
Makes the Evening Sky matter again
Not precise enough to be used in swordfights immediately: A Simple Transaction I Original

[ ] Edeldross: This precursor component of findross embodies redemption, perfection, restoration and the renewal of cycles. It is the liminal gloss between real and ideal, whereby the purposeless matter of the corporeal world becomes the refined substrate of supernal augmentation. Blasts, voids and shields of solidified edeldross convey the principle of 'transference without harm,' allowing the character to re-position allies and scatter enemies with minimal possibility of collateral damage. Kinetic flight is possible through continuous burst releases, but its greatest benefits are found in augmentation. Pure edeldross is semi-corporeal and swiftly fades beneath the withering indifference of the real, but contained within a person's body it holistically augments all elements of the self, supernal excellence beyond the reach of the mundane.

Though mastery is a long and arduous process, precise configurations of Edeldross can be arranged so as to replicate nearly one-tenth of all Sorcerous Graces.

Hunger's Imaginary Element is determined by his relationships. Gisena's art, shaped by Letrizia's language and technique, conferring Catherine's benevolence. +Gisena, +Letrizia, +Catherine (?)

Discounts Total Eclipse by 1 Arete
-Solidified edeldross can be used as a form of damage-preventing energy blast, which, while unable to slay enemies on its own, can be actively spammed due to its negation of harm. Can ablate away to cancel equivalent quantities of Nullity, allowing for easy combat alongside Gisena with a bit of practice. Pacify a city undergoing a zombie apocalypse with a minimum of innocent life lost, scatter both sides in a pitched battle without slaying any of their number, etc.
-Beings within the radius of a release of pure edeldross receive a 20% bonus to all Attributes. The magnitude of this bonus can be improved over time. Take care not to buff your enemies as well. Pure edeldross is considerably more draining to use.
-By working with Gisena's mage-sight, Hunger may slowly over time develop specific Patterns of edeldross that can temporary replicate the effects of various Sorcerous Graces. Perhaps even developments even further than this can be achieved in time...
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Nonlethal weapons are useful for if you're Tyrant procing or just need to worry about public relations
Flight leads to new frontiers in the realm of mobility
High long term potential via Sorcerous Grace Emulation
Get started on the Findross Lore route with Gisena
All Attribute boost is farking ridiculous
Total Eclipse may be obsoleted by Sword Praxis by the time we get it.
There's a mystery box about Catherine
 
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[X] The Streamline
[X] 7 Arete Version - As written.
[X] Quickwater

Talace said:
For some reason, when Rihaku describes the weaker version as "taking away from X" instead of describing the stronger version as "adding to X", I am much more averse to taking the weaker version, even when they are strictly speaking, mechanically the same.
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Talace said:
Ugh, now I have to reread each vote for evidence of anchoring bias, asymmetrical dominance, and menu dependence.
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I actually had a brief conversation with him about gauging stated risk preferences vs. revealed risk preferences. Unfortunately I got distracted by self-gratifying word-salad and never got to the punchline: The best way to evaluate risk tolerance is to select a Player X who voted for (winning) options Y and Z ask Player X whether they are happy with the way each choice turned out!

My suspicion is that some of us have had buyer's remorse after so much Devil's Advocacy!
 
Talace said:
The kids call it High Elementalism, we call it Surgecraft. Who's wrong, and why?
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Maybe you're just not hip with the kids... perils of age and treachery.

Microwave MKII said:
it literally does nothing mechanically beneficial but DO IT FOR OUR BOY HUNGER
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Such obsequious luxury! Great pic btw.

Zfglx said:
I was wondering whether she was around, and alive. Maybe we can pre-empt conflict and seek her out. Or build with a non lethal take down in mind, cause it would be pretty traumatic for Hunger to kill his dead wife's alternate universe self (do I have this right). Still definitely something to think about on the horizon.
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Edeldross would certainly help with nonlethal takedowns...
 
Comparing the immediate benefits of each is super unfair to Inksky since most of it's power is in its advancements. Yeah, it's better right now, but the Evening Sky is much easier given it progresses with our picks! And not dying gang may not want Quickwater anyway given advancing with is inherently risky, so much so it benefits from Hunger...
 
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