Quick, guys! Are there any loose story threads Rihaku left for us to speculate on?
Well, the easiest action seems to be for literally everyone to do piecewise story reaction posts. They count as rather long Omakes, too!

...Could even go back to the start and muse about how the choices we've made since made events better/worse than they originally seemed!
 
If you had 14 Arete, you could go Ruinous Valor -> Fell-Handed Stroke + One Arm Fury. Now that would be something!
 
I don't like options that only become good when we play like shit, that's just more likely to encourage reckless behavior than not because we would have a "panic button". It's also a bad pick for Temple specifically because we're done the moment we activate it while a straightforward power option makes us more likely to just succeed in the first place and reap the rewards.

Note that not picking King's Blood nearly got Letiz killed and caused us to leave Ber alive so we could help her and recover ourselves.

So yeah, I don't trust people not to end up getting us in situations where we need to trigger Form of Rage and then being pissy that we did... then doing it all over again when the next opportunity presents itself.

Extending on this... it puts things closer on the road of my Omake for how the Temple of the False Moon would play out to being accurate. I called 3 days in my Omake. We got there in 1-2 days. My omake ends with us panic-casting form of rage to break out of a hostile swarm of powerful enemies. That's what the giant blood elemental that was on fire was. At least we probably aren't taking Gisena and Letrizia in with us so I was probably wrong about that depending on how the buildvotes and us adapting to them go. Do people really want to prove me that level of correct?
 
Quick, guys! Are there any loose story threads Rihaku left for us to speculate on?
Well, here's one:

Its head bore little resemblance to that of a human's; a fierce and angular thing with livid gold eyes, sporting an enormous maw filled with cruel, curving fangs.

But that was hardly its strangest feature. At the top of each arm where the shoulder would normally lie was another armored head, neckless as if in place of a pauldron, similar in structure down to the fanged maw. These had eyes of green;

From Verschlengorge's introduction, his primary head and shoulder heads have different eye colors. Is this significant?
 
Hmm... The only weakness of the Philosopher's Wreath build is relatively low offense baring an attack Grace. If we got up to 14 Arete we could take Thousand Cuts with it.

Alternatively, now that we have more Arete then expected, I'm liking Ring builds more, since we can get to Ruling Ring faster. We have 10 Arete now. With just one more Arete we could run Dominion, Preeminence, and Undying Echo or Fall of Night.
 
Hmm... The only weakness of the Philosopher's Wreath build is relatively low offense baring an attack Grace. If we got up to 14 Arete we could take Thousand Cuts with it.

Alternatively, now that we have more Arete then expected, I'm liking Ring builds more, since we can get to Ruling Ring faster. We have 10 Arete now. With just one more Arete we could run Dominion, Preeminence, and Undying Echo or Fall of Night.
Honestly the Ring builds skeeve me out. They sound like a total "And this is how the Tyrant turns out to have not been truly dead, sucker!" Or bait for a fight with someone else with such a ring.

I mean... I can't be the only one who notices that Rihaku keeps mentioning Isildur... and where there is an Isildur there is a Sauron. And given where we got the Ring...
 
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Letrizia is clearly not totally bought into whatever moral rationalization her people came up with justifying Armament use (Probably okay with it intellectually, less so when it's shoved in her face), based on her reaction to Gisena's Seralize quip, and the village incident. I'm a bit surprised as we didn't notice much concern from her after fighting inside the city. This isn't likely to be too relevant in the near future but is a concern for when we want her to act as an ambassador for us with the big three. Seeing as how we're basically a worse version not under their control. The linkage system is a helpful point for us though.

From Verschlengorge's introduction, his primary head and shoulder heads have different eye colors. Is this significant?

I'd guess the green is simply due to him being weakened.

As for builds, 10 Arete makes a greed build of 7 this turn 7 next tempting (Probably Vanguard then Cuts) but I think we shouldn't bank our hopes on that kind of generation rate as it's a lot to ask. I have been coming around to Vanguard more in general, as Gisena's dungeon value has been ticking up over time to me.
 
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Hmm... The only weakness of the Philosopher's Wreath build is relatively low offense baring an attack Grace. If we got up to 14 Arete we could take Thousand Cuts with it.

Alternatively, now that we have more Arete then expected, I'm liking Ring builds more, since we can get to Ruling Ring faster. We have 10 Arete now. With just one more Arete we could run Dominion, Preeminence, and Undying Echo or Fall of Night.

It'll be difficult to convince the thread to spend towards Ruling Ring past the first Preeminence, though. The Temple looms large!

As for builds, 10 Arete makes a greed build of 7 this turn 7 next tempting (Probably Vanguard then Cuts) but I think we shouldn't bank our hopes on that kind of generation rate as it's a lot to ask. I have been coming around to Vanguard more in general, as Gisena's dungeon value has been ticking up over time to me.

Indeed, you guys haven't even seen what cool and exotic shit the Temple itself might have to offer, why not keep some in reserve in case you find a 7 Arete you'd like to buy?
 
Honestly the Ring builds skeeve me out. They sound like a total "And this is how the Tyrant turns out to have not been truly dead, sucker!" Or bait for a fight with someone else with such a ring.

I mean... I can't be the only one who notices that Rihaku keeps mentioning Isildur... and where there is an Isildur there is a Sauron. And given where we got the Ring...

While I can't speak to the possibility of other Ruling Rings, I am 100% certain that the Hunger ring will not bite us in the ass. Remember, we got it as a Lesser Remittance from the Accursed himself. That guy's not going to give his cursebearer something that could turn out badly for them.

Furthermore, take a look at this text from Chief Dominion:
Awaken now, O Hunger ring; from blackest myth abjure:
thy band once stained, now un-profaned, to shine forevermore.

O Ring of Blood, O Ring of War, thy tide of battle fades;
cast down Their thrones in crimson gloam: unfurling of thine Age!

The ring is un-profaned. It is ours now, not the Tyrants.
 
Indeed, you guys haven't even seen what cool and exotic shit the Temple itself might have to offer, why not keep some in reserve in case you find a 7 Arete you'd like to buy?
Fear, mostly. It's all your fault for hyping up how dangerous it is!

While I can't speak to the possibility of other Ruling Rings, I am 100% certain that the Hunger ring will not bite us in the ass. Remember, we got it as a Lesser Remittance from the Accursed himself. That guy's not going to give his cursebearer something that could turn out badly for them.
He wouldn't do anything to ruin our day, But I fear that he might do something that could lead to us eventually being tested. the Ring brings us great power, but some of that power coming at the cost of additional conflict fits perfectly into Hunger's design, does it not? As far as the Accursed was concerned it might even be a benefit!

I'm not wary of the Ring in general. Just anything that pulls it towards it's Right to Rule. That feels like we may be dredging up something risky.
 
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[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear X2
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear X3
[X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
[X] Letrizia - Hollow Star

You know what, we picked the temple to plunder its riches. This gives us the combat stats we've been lacking, and a huge offensive weapon to end fights.

This should free us up to take the absolute best option in the temple.
 
You know what, we picked the temple to plunder its riches. This gives us the combat stats we've been lacking, and a huge offensive weapon to end fights.

This should free us up to take the absolute best option in the temple.

Screw it. Let's go full Echos.

[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear X2
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear X3
[X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
[X] Letrizia - Hollow Star

This gets us a lot of stats and combat power, and once we've cleared one update worth of Temple we'll be close to another 7-Arete pick, which we can use to grab unique Temple stuff.

I should note that while this build is somewhat amusing, it's not just a meme. It's power level is actually pretty competitive compared to other 7-Arete plans and decent compared to 9-Arete plans. It's way below an 11-Arete plan, but I think we can probably get through at least part of the Temple on just this and then get a 7-Arete Temple exclusive.
 
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear X2
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear X3
[X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
[X] Letrizia - Hollow Star

It's time for the Echo spam! I'm compelled--save Arete for another 7-cost pick when the time is right. Who knows what options we might find in that temple?
 
It's rather... messy, I'm afraid.

So as to the triple echo/Cuts build: It's actually pretty cool. But I have to oppose it because prior to entering the Temple is the only chance we're going to get to get Vanguard and have it be useful for the duration of this. So would you be amenable to switching to a 2 Echo+vanguard build? This still actually gives 3 echos thanks to vanguard requiring one implicitly, and will let us grab Cuts after we arrive.
Adhoc vote count started by Byzantine on Jun 4, 2020 at 2:27 AM, finished with 190 posts and 29 votes.

  • [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Undying Vanguard - 7 Arete.
    [X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the ForebearX2
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
    [X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
    [X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the ForebearX2
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear X3
    [X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
    [X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] The Ring of Power - Dominion - 2 Arete
    [X] The Ring of Power - Preeminence - 7 Arete
    [X] Gisena - Sorcerous Advancement I
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the ForebearX2
    [X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete
    [X] Evening Sky - Opalescence
    [X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
    [X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor (3 picks)
    -[X] Einhander
    [X] Gisena - Sorcerous Advancement I
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Undying Vanguard - 7 Arete.
    [X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
    [X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor
    [X] Zweihander
    [X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
    [X] Plan Sorcery
    -[X] Evening Sky - Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)
    -[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear + Undying Echo
    [X] Plan Gisena Supremacy!
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Undying Vanguard - 7 Arete.
    [X] Gisena - Sorcerous Advancement I
    [X] Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)
    [X] Echo of the Forebear
    -[X] Undying Echo - 2 Arete
    [X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the ForebearX2
    -[X] 2 Arete: Undying Echo
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Form of Rage - 7 Arete
    [X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
    [X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor (3 picks)
    -[X] Zweihander
    [X] Gisena - Sorcerous Advancement I
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Undying Echo - 2 Arete
    [X] Evening Sky - Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)
    [X] Gisena - Sorcerous Advancement I
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the ForebearX2
    -[X] 2 Arete: Undying Echo
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Form of Rage - 7 Arete
    [X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] The Ring of Power - Dominion - 2 Arete
    [X] The Ring of Power - Preeminence - 7 Arete
    [X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
 
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An unfortunate consequence of combining plan-style with non-plan votes, I suppose.
One way to clean this would be to merge votes disregarding the companion option, then separately read a line tally for the companion option
 
An unfortunate consequence of combining plan-style with non-plan votes, I suppose.
One way to clean this would be to merge votes disregarding the companion option, then separately read a line tally for the companion option
Yeah, definitely. And as you note a large amount of the mess is because otherwise identical plans have a difference of opinion on the companion vote.
 
Since the structure of the plans is pretty similar, we could get a good reading of what the most popular strategies are by their 7-Arete acquisition: A Thousand Cuts, Undying Vanguard, Philosopher's Wreath or Preeminence.

Or Form of Rage. It has a lot of omake power!
 
I feel like Vanguard of the 7 Arete picks gives us the least chance of completing the temple.

3x Echo gives us +++ to Strength, Agility, and Con. It let's us Felling Strike at 7x those greater values. It adds to our general tankiness and it gives us a massive increase in offense.
 
Since the structure of the plans is pretty similar, we could get a good reading of what the most popular strategies are by their 7-Arete acquisition: A Thousand Cuts, Undying Vanguard, Philosopher's Wreath or Preeminence.

Or Form of Rage. It has a lot of omake power!

The problem is the emergence of the faction wanting a 7-Arete plan to prep for another 7-Arete purchase within the Temple itself, vs the 9-Arete plans. If I was voting for a 9-Arete plan it'd have a different 7-Arete pick then the 7-Arete plan I'm voting for now.

...That was a confusing sentence. Build votes man.
 
I feel like Vanguard of the 7 Arete picks gives us the least chance of completing the temple.

3x Echo gives us +++ to Strength, Agility, and Con. It let's us Felling Strike at 7x those greater values. It adds to our general tankiness and it gives us a massive increase in offense.
On it's own I'd agree. But this build is being taken with the implicit idea of grabbing Cuts asap.

The problem is the emergence of the faction wanting a 7-Arete plan to prep for another 7-Arete purchase within the Temple itself, vs the 9-Arete plans. If I was voting for a 9-Arete plan it'd have a different 7-Arete pick then the 7-Arete plan I'm voting for now.

...That was a confusing sentence. Build votes man.
I followed it! And yeah, I can see that. Mine's the same but that's only because Vanguard loses it's value after we actually enter the temple, unless we're allowed to back out to grab Gisena without forfeiting anything. Which I doubt.

...I suppose we could always do the Cuts + Maw build if we go with the 7 now and 7 in the temple, assuming we don't find anything in the temple that costs arete which is irresistible.
 
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[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear X2
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear X3
[X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
[X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
 
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