Looks like Catherine may have an advantage there, not sure.
Difference between the two is that Gisena will be more focused on supporting us(and perhaps the other Retinue members), while with Catherine we will be focused on supporting her. Cat will be stronger in pure 1v1, sure, but it's harder to say which would prove more useful in absolute manner.

Biggest downside of Cat is that she is weak early and strong late, which is the exact opposite of what we want.
[X] Plan Guess she can tag along
-[X] The King's Scepter
-[X] Accretion
-[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
-[X] Forebear's Blade
-[X] Hunger


Since Gisena has good scaling even without retinue (I guess because Accretion is a complimentary sort of style to her examplar growth deal) she becomes a more appealing option to me, as she's already very strong early.
Accretion can generate findross for Gisena to level.
 
The ability of our companion to stay relevant will depend entirely on themselves. If they have the motivation, they might keep up. Accursed wouldn't give the slightest fuck either way.

I very much doubt they will be nearwhere close to us power-wise, more likely they will dig out some niche for themselves.
...
[ ] Retinue - You may designate up to five members of your Retinue. Each reduces your rate of Progression by 25% multiplicatively. Each advances in their primary area of specialization with Progression one-fourth the potency of your own. Needless to say this is an outrageous and irreplaceable boon. Retinue companions are easy to add, costly to remove.
 
Thanks for the reminder. I guess Retinue boosts Catherine's physical capabilities/piloting ability/Sealing when she gets it assuming she wins since sealing and calligraphy overlap and presumably necessitate good hand-eye coordination.

Gisena's is less clear now: All Nullification? Some social benefits in conjunction with less nullification? She's got Mental and Social tied.

Edit: This throws everything into fog now.
 
[X] Plan Guess she can tag along
-[X] The King's Scepter
-[X] Accretion
-[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
-[X] Forebear's Blade
-[X] Hunger


Since Gisena has good scaling even without retinue (I guess because Accretion is a complimentary sort of style to her examplar growth deal) she becomes a more appealing option to me, as she's already very strong early.
She is useful, forget the strength her Curse mitigating is the best part about her as a companion.
...Actually, this is very important.
@Rihaku, If we get Retinue and Gisena. Will her curse mitigating powers increase? If so, we would have ever increasing curse mitigatory with us. A Curse Mitigator with 1/4 the speed of a Progressive Cursebearer. Great stuff.
 
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That's exactly what I said? That they will dig out some niche for themselves i.e Gesina gets stronk in her Nullification shit and thus stays relevant in mitigating our Curses.

Edit: I think you misunderstood what I meant. They may have 1/4th our power of progression but obviously those with the stronger motivation and Will will be the one better able to keep up. There is a difference between giving the power of progression to some above average cultivator and Zang Kong. Or an Average Solar exalted and Odyssial.
 
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Biggest downside of Cat is that she is weak early and strong late, which is the exact opposite of what we want.

Debatable depending on what you're optimizing for(Maximum immediate curse mitigation which is what Gisena+Retinue+Scepter+Seals+Forebears provides, minimizing our endgame Decimator's Afflication radius by having people more powerful than us in some ways to do things for us, etc). I can't say I fully grasp all the variables but given curse scaling it seems like a continuum. Our scaling is probably the most powerful form of curse mitigation but it raises our Decimator's Afflication range in the meantime.
 
Welp, no comfy stress-free quest for us.

[X] The King's Scepter
[X] Accretion
[X] Hunger
[X] Forebear's Blade
[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress


Remembered I had version 1.0 in my sig already and updated it accordingly, if that's worth anything.
 
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Debatable depending on what you're optimizing for(Maximum immediate curse mitigation which is what Gisena+Retinue+Scepter+Seals+Forebears provides, minimizing our endgame Decimator's Afflication radius by having people more powerful than us in some ways to do things for us, etc). I can't say I fully grasp all the variables but given curse scaling it seems like a continuum. Our scaling is probably the most powerful form of curse mitigation but it raises our Decimator's Afflication range in the meantime.
It must be possible to limit the Affliction though. Accursed definitely did something or most of the multiverse would be dead.
Though why would you use a curse like that on the Accursed? Someone must have fucked up while cursing the Accursed.
 
It must be possible to limit the Affliction though. Accursed definitely did something or most of the multiverse would be dead.
Though why would you use a curse like that on the Accursed? Someone must have fucked up while cursing the Accursed.
Because they knew what he was like and that he'd rather pay for the Curse himself instead of letting others suffer for him?
 
It must be possible to limit the Affliction though. Accursed definitely did something or most of the multiverse would be dead.

Yep. It's just a question of how to go about it with the least aggregate life force consumed, given scaling enough for high end mitigation probably needs us to have a multi-solar system radius or something.
 
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Our scaling is probably the most powerful form of curse mitigation but it raises our Decimator's Afflication range in the meantime.

This seems like it's not going to matter much soon. Unless we get a weird Xanxia world that's thousands of times bigger than normal once we hit the whole planets range which will be soon if we haven't already (Or solar system if it's got orbital colonies and such) further increases in AoE will still be doing intrinsic damage to the space, but it's on a level no one will really be able to notice or see any effects of until we increase into galaxy relevant sizes.

The actual focus on mitigation seems like it's more productively set on how to slow the life drain of what's going on in our range rather than slowing the increase in size. Worrying about what happens when we're a galaxy drainer can wait until we have a better idea of how it actually works.
 
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The Decimator's Affliction's probably one of the reasons he's a 'thin figment' of his former strength, if he's forced to tank a constant drain rather than Decimate everything everywhere. It's an imperfect analogy given the power-levels in play, but it could be better for the cosmos to pull a Control and constantly cast Chrysopoeia to outpace the Kingslayer's effect.
 
This seems like it's not going to matter much soon. Unless we get a weird Xanxia world that's thousands of times bigger than normal once we hit the whole planets range which will be soon if we haven't already (Or solar system if it's got orbital colonies and such) further increases in AoE will still be doing intrinsic damage to the space, but it's on a level no one will really be able to notice or see any effects of until we increase into galaxy relevant sizes.

The actual focus on mitigation seems like it's more productively set on how to slow the life drain of what's going on in our range rather than slowing the increase in size. Worrying about what happens when we're a galaxy drainer can wait until we have a better idea of how it actually works.

Unmitigated, the life force requirement would continue to increase, however!
 
In the absence of any takers for the Retinue edition of my plan I'm going back to:

[x]Plan Palpatine V2
-[x]King's Scepter
-[x]Seven Seals
-[x]Hunger
-[x]Forbear's Blade
-[x]Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt

I have no idea where this falls on the late game Decimator's Affliction angle but here goes.
 
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A Simple Transaction reaction (932 words)
Every story spoken has been spoken before.

The boy from Earth stumbles into another realm. A world of wonder and magic, suffering beneath the Tyrant's cruel yoke. The boy becomes a man, the man becomes a hero, the hero defeats the Tyrant, and all live happily ever after. So destiny has decreed.
So originally destiny had decried the story of our protagonist to be your typical isekai story.

I wonder why destiny had to use such a convoluted method to deal with the Tyrant? The fates needed someone as a counterforce to their own hero so using someone from outside their world as Overlord, so that person would be as ignorant as possible of the world as possible, made sense, the Geas of Indenture is just one of the many curses the accursed is trying to mitigate and Control used the spell which brought Seram to his world to get rid of the Heroine (Though there is still the question of why he was brought to that world and why a spell with that effect even existed in the first place). But what could be this world destiny reason to rely on a hero from earth to deal with the Tyrant?

And there really seems to be to many isekai in this verse for it to be all a coincidence... We know from the build vote from when Nameless was deciding the nature of his Vault that true universes seems to spontaneously generate human inhabitants even when no such thing was intended making human beings some kind of cosmic constant. Could the massive number of isekai in the rihakuverse be the result of a similar phenomena, and if so why?
But the Tyrant is not so easily overcome.

He is wise to destiny's tricks, greater than destiny's stewards. He sets the world spinning to the direction of a new master. Destiny falters; only causality remains. And mere causality does not suffice a hero from coddled Earth to stand against the Tyrant.
Apparently this world destiny's stewards were pretty weak, certainly a lot weaker than the Fates, given that they could be defeated by the Tyrant. And reality ensue as a result: generally, all else being equal, there is no reason for someone from Earth to have an easier time dealing with the problems of another world than that world own inhabitants, quite the opposite in fact!
The hero fails, time and again. The people of the world suffer for his impudence. He loses an arm, an eye, half a lung, all the natural vigor of his youth. The companions with which he journeyed become a procession of the dead. His quest, prophesied as the dalliance of a season, becomes a grim slog of years.
That must have sucked... To be promised a simple one season adventure in a new world to defeat the Big Bad and save the world and then having to deal with realities of guerrilla warfare against an implacable enemy instead, slowly losing pieces of your very body along with the loyal companions you made along the road...
There is no certainty of victory; barely any chance of it. But the hero's heart is full of hate, and it is much too late to stop.

He learns from his enemy. Mirrors the monster's unmerciful cunning, turns to those forbidden arts his long-dead mentors warned him against. Finds in them, at last, an arena in which his talent exceeds his adversary's.
Yeah, if your opponent is willing to use a superior weapon and you're not, it's going to be pretty difficult to win without starting from a commanding position or having destiny on your side. Fortuitous that the hero would actually be more proficient than the Tyrant in the forbidden arts, though...
Years more of preparation, to realize the power that talent portends. Time bought dearly with the blood of his allies, a patchwork insurgency of the desperate and condemned. In sparse moments, the hero and his surviving companions carve out a life for themselves, stealing what joy they can. The long, bitter path of his journey trudges towards culmination.
There's an important lesson here, I think. Even in this desperate situation the hero never completely abandoned everything in the name of felling the Tyrant, managing to find some form of happiness even in such a dark situation. That doesn't really sound like someone that would abandon everything purely for the sake of Vengeance, but well... That boat already sailed.
One final sally against the Tyrant. As before, their powers are unevenly matched. But for the first time, that imbalance is in the hero's favor.

And yet even that is not enough. The gap in power does not suffice to overcome the gulf of skill still between them. There is no more time. There are no more chances.
That must that have hurt. To have come this far, sacrificing so much to surpass the Tyrant, and still having it not be enough because he's just that more skilled than you are...
The killing stroke descends. The hero's final companion throws herself into its path. The hero becomes a widower.

In the Tyrant's implacable guard, a momentary opening appears.

Burning selfhood like tallow, the widower mounts one final onslaught. In his eyes there is no more victory, no dreams more of failure or success. Only the enemy which must be destroyed, no matter the cost.
Victory at last... But at what cost? Even the narrative has stopped referring to our protagonist as the hero, now he is only a widower...
The widower prevails. The Tyrant is no more. The peoples of the world celebrate their liberation. Joy and adulation rain upon their silent champion, who stares ahead unblinking.

After the parade the widower buries his wife and their unborn child. It is eleven years to the day since he arrived in this world.
To the people of this world this is a moment of celebration of triumph, the Tyrant vanquished at last, the horrors he inflected on the populace finally coming to an end! For our protagonist? Not so much. Eleven years he has spent in this world. Eleven years of horrors, of perilous battles, of lost. Eleven years of sacrifice. And in the end, though victory was achieved, it costed him everything.
Crippled by the effulgence of that final strike, the widower is a pale shadow of his prior self. But in the eyes of the people, he is still the hero that was; their protector, their shining knight, their salvation, howsoever delayed though it may have been. And, with the passing of seasons, a glimmer of hope arises in the hero's heart. That, though the cost was ruinous, more than he could bear, there was good in the world still waiting to be fostered.

Freedom, Justice, Truth. In time, democracy. A society with the power and wherewithal to be organized around its highest ideals, rather than brute necessity. It is what they would have wanted - and if he no longer wields a hero's strength, still he has a hero's influence.
And the narrative is back to calling him the hero and he's absolutely worthy of the tittle given what he is trying to do here. Too often in stories heroes limit themselves to fighting for a return to the status quo rather than using their power constructively, to improve the world. And, though our protagonist might have lost almost all of the magical might he once commanded, soft power is still power.

Sadly he seems to have misjudged just how much soft power he actually commanded and how reticent the powerful of this world would be to allow someone else to force them to change the way they did things so soon after the fall of the Tyrant...
But the world did not sit idly while he mourned. The kings and dukes who fought aside the hero have filled the vacuum of power left by the Tyrant. And they are content with the system at hand. Theirs is a society of nearly faultless structure, stably and evenly arranged. Their yoke is light, the people are fed. Is that not justice? There is no place here for the instruments of modernity, much less its frivolous ideals.

The hero is not dissuaded. Too many have died for him to surrender this dream. In that resolve the nobility see the beginnings of a Tyrant by a different name. They act. Treachery achieves what all the overlord's power could not: the hero undone at last. Discarded by those who had no more use for him.
Despite this being a rather predictable result in a medieval-like society it's still kind of sad that they would think that our protagonist was anything at all like the Tyrant for the reforms he's trying to implement given the nature of those reforms...
In the hero's final moments, despair and hate raging equally across his heart, comes a being with the form of a man, offering vengeance in the form of a bargain.

The being is power beyond measure, beyond the hero's wildest reckonings, the solemn steady heartbeat of all creation, the sword by which all stories would end.
And what is possibly the most powerful being in the entire cosmos come to him in his last moments to offer him a second chance.
"Are you the-"

The man cuts him off with an upraised hand. "No, I'm not the Devil, nor am I associated with any that claim to be him. There will be no souls, no contracts, no signing in blood. My offer is that of a simple transaction. I am bound by countless Curses, leaving me greatly diminished, a thin figment of what I once was. Take up a portion of my burdens, and in exchange receive a fraction of my power."
Wow. The Accursed is actually using a script. He really can't be bothered anymore, uh?
Power enough to escape this world, or remake it. This he understands without speaking. Even knowing this, he can not help but dislike the being. If this Accursed one had deigned to act sooner, could his wife and son have been saved?
The problem of Theodicy in a nutshell: if the Accursed is so powerful why does he let bad things happen? In the case of the Accursed there's a pretty easy solution, though: because his curses don't allow him to. Of course, the Brand probably eliminate any interest the hero might have had in coming up with excuses to justify the Accursed's inaction.
But it had not, and mere dislike means nothing.

What else is there to say?

"I accept."
Given that the alternative is death, taking the Accursed's deal is even more of a slam dunk than usual, here.
Mournfully the being closes its eyes. "So be it."
I wonder why the Accursed is mournful here? It's not like the hero had any alternative to saying yes...
"If you wish only to survive," it continued, "I will grant you a modest portion of my burdens, and power enough to be free of this realm and its shackles. But if you seek vengeance against the powers truly responsible for your suffering here, then you must take on a far more onerous burden. In exchange, you will receive the power of unbounded progression, growth without limit or surcease."
I really wished we had picked Freedom here, but if we are going to be an avenger we should fully commit to it and make whatever choices maximizes our chances of one day achieving our vengeance. In other words, vote Scepter.
 
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Unmitigated, the life force requirement would continue to increase, however!

I don't really have a clear idea of what the 'life force' we drain actually is, and was assuming empty space had a decent supply of it. If not that's certainly problematic, as I was assuming being an asshole and just not bothering with any measures was a workable path to get a viable supply, but if only life bearing planets or similar places give any gains it's going to be tough to deal with considering their rarity in comparison to the space we're going to be AOEing.
 
[X] Transcendent Shonen Murderhobo
-[X] The King's Scepter
-[X] Accretion
-[X] Forebear's Blade
-[X] Hunger
-[X] Relinquishment

Do de do
 
I don't really have a clear idea of what the 'life force' we drain actually is, and was assuming empty space had a decent supply of it. If not that's certainly problematic, as I was assuming being an asshole and just not bothering with any measures was a workable path to get a viable supply, but if only life bearing planets or similar places give any gains it's going to be tough to deal with considering their rarity in comparison to the space we're going to be AOEing.
Some of stronger worlds likely just have more powerful baseline humans, or in general ton of people to drain from. Otherwise, there is also existence of endlessly large worlds, more massive than stars, even.

Of course, we could always pull a Kong and try housing endless infinities of beings within us.
 
Wordcount, @formalAI ?

Despite the risk and the chance of losing this vote, I'm still excited about seeing what the Praxis can finally do. After this, I don't know if we ever will have the chance to find out again. Remember all that cool teasing about Immortal Awakening and the Logos that ended nowhere? That sucked. It's time to finally seize the ultimate shiny we so far have been denied!
 
Well, I thought it was cool...
I loved that fight!!
There are ways to induce Coalescence as well. Just gotta get some findross or findross-equivalent energy!
Gotcha - so her advancement is still possible without Retinue-based Progression or Hunger. However, I'm skeptical that she will reach the universe-destroying levels of power needed for second mitigations without the help of a Lesser Remittance. Granted, my understanding of second mitigations and high numbers of Coalescences are insufficient to have much confidence.
Still, I want to pursue powering her up to try for those mitigations.
 
Gotcha - so her advancement is still possible without Retinue-based Progression or Hunger. However, I'm skeptical that she will reach the universe-destroying levels of power needed for second mitigations without the help of a Lesser Remittance. Granted, my understanding of second mitigations and high numbers of Coalescences are insufficient to have much confidence.
Still, I want to pursue powering her up to try for those mitigations.
Graces were pretty exponential in power, and some of Curse mitigation options we were getting implied a lot of potency too.

Of course, there is nothing like Progression Cursebearer if you want assured infinite(endless escalations of endless escalations etc) scaling.
 
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