OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Hunger helps us deal with apocryphal procs as they come, and if my theory is right, will enable us to get even more curse mitigation out of Seven Seals to compensate for not having Gisena.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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Hunger helps us deal with apocryphal procs as they come, and if my theory is right, will enable us to get even more curse mitigation out of Seven Seals to compensate for not having Gisena.
Rihaku
The Internet
"S-super Saiyan's not scaling! Goku's not TRULY s-stronger than Lord Freiza!!"
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Another thing I realized. Having disciples with their own capabilities reduces our growth requirements, thereby reducing the ravages Decimator's Afflication looses upon creation.
Hopefully she can benefit from Accretion or awaken her Soul Evocation if Seals wins. The evidence that 'Hero' looks to be an objective classification in this cosmology is interesting. I wonder how that would've interacted with Spring's planned Age of Heroes, for which we finally have a name.
Hm... we were advised to, "Take care that you do not become that which you despise."
Does that count as an instruction from the Accursed for the Tyrant's Doom? If so, we would be wise to cling to those words.
Rihaku
The Internet
It looks like the most popular plans by number of voters are -
For Sword:
Seals - Gisena, Retinue, Forbear's Blade
Minimal Accretion
For Scepter:
Seals - Also Gisena, Retinue, Forbear's Blade
Accretion - Hunger, Relinquishment, Forbear's Blade
Am I missing any major constituencies? In terms of omakes I believe the distribution is a bit different.
For Sword:
Seals - Gisena, Retinue, Forbear's Blade
Minimal Accretion
For Scepter:
Seals - Also Gisena, Retinue, Forbear's Blade
Accretion - Hunger, Relinquishment, Forbear's Blade
Am I missing any major constituencies? In terms of omakes I believe the distribution is a bit different.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
From a psychological standpoint, the hero seeks out companions because they realize that their own growth will only make them more of a danger to creation by virtue of Decimator's Afflication. Having allies/catspaws/disciples to do tasks for him minimizes the damage he does to innocent people.
And now I'm indecisive between Hunger and Retinue for a Catherine build. Giving Hunger to Catherine before she awakens her Soul Evocation would be suboptimal. We are probably going to need hunger's benefits for ourselves but if we get them all at once then every battle, every growth will only make us more of a danger to innocent people even though we may unlock more mitigation potential. Retinue gives us a significantly more powerful agent, sparing us the need to grow to multi-solar system life drainer.
And now I'm indecisive between Hunger and Retinue for a Catherine build. Giving Hunger to Catherine before she awakens her Soul Evocation would be suboptimal. We are probably going to need hunger's benefits for ourselves but if we get them all at once then every battle, every growth will only make us more of a danger to innocent people even though we may unlock more mitigation potential. Retinue gives us a significantly more powerful agent, sparing us the need to grow to multi-solar system life drainer.
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Inserted tally
SVs fucking with my phone, could only merge the two most important votes; still, seems Rihaku' right.
SVs fucking with my phone, could only merge the two most important votes; still, seems Rihaku' right.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
@ImperatorV
Thoughts on Switching to PalpatineV2 since you have Catherine in your plan? For Context it is:
Edit: What about you @Skelm?
Edit2: I'm open to swapping Hunger for Retinue if need be depending on your ponderances/preferences.
[x]Plan Palpatine V2
-[x]King's Scepter
-[x]Seven Seals
-[x]Hunger
-[x]Forbear's Blade
-[x]Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
Thoughts on Switching to PalpatineV2 since you have Catherine in your plan? For Context it is:
Edit: What about you @Skelm?
Edit2: I'm open to swapping Hunger for Retinue if need be depending on your ponderances/preferences.
[x]Plan Palpatine V2
-[x]King's Scepter
-[x]Seven Seals
-[x]Hunger
-[x]Forbear's Blade
-[x]Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
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There are a few more companion focused builds floating around for Sword, like Gisena/Catherine/Retinue or Gisena/Prolessarch, but they're probably not big enough to count unless you put down "companion focused Sword" as one category and consolidate those two somehow, which there isn't really a clear way to do.
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I don't particularly prefer the mech pilot over the sorceress, and I want to have Retinue, so the Gisena, Retinue, Forbear's Blade combination Rihaku describes is basically fine by me.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I like that plan (Scepter+Seals+Gisena+Retinue+Forebear's) as well, it's my second choice at the moment and I wouldn't be too eaten up if it won.
Still,
[x]Plan Palpatine
-[x]King's Scepter
-[x]Seven Seals
-[x]Retinue
-[x]Forbear's Blade
-[x]Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
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Alright, let's talk Gisena.
To begin with, we should all be aware that we suck dick at social. We look like a freak, we are mentally fucked up beyond belief and we have Curses that make our social even harder. If we want to go in a town, we will likely have to skirt around like a hobo or fight people. Gisena though? She aces that shit. She walks in a town, she can buy and sell everything, get all the freshest info, get is in touch with quest relevant people, talk with authority for us and so on. Remember how we have Geas of Indenture which means that we need to conquer something or kill high profile target? Gisena can help us talk with other people about that. Amazing concept.
On top of this, she scales. She can get more points in her social stuff, and at pretty scary rate given that she is 1/4 Progression. She can get cool Charisma Perks and scale in a way that is completely different that what we do. She can offer us completely different vectors of approach to a problem which would usually be completely impossible for us. And, above everything, she is walking QoL feature that takes care of social stuff so we don't need to invest into it ourselves.
Of course, while her ability to socialize is truly impressive, it's secondary to her actual purpose. You will notice that she is part of specific vote choice - Seals/Sword/Gisena/Retinue. Reason for this is that all those options directly reduce our Curses in various ways, in hope that we will reduce impact Apocryphal would have on our crucial early game. But there is more - Gisena not only Curse diminishment, but one that scales. Forever. As quazi-Progression type she could scale at sealing Curses for millions of years. Remember how in previous quests we were offered choices between reducing Curses and power? With Gisena, we can just take power every time. In time, we could even add Cursebearers to our team simply because we have powerful ability to diminish their Curses on our side. Imagine, for a moment, combat Cursebearer who gets 25% of Progression and his Curses diminished, fighting by our side.
Truly marvelous. And yet, Gisena has uses beyond these - her ability to cancel magic, now, and virtually every esoteric, at some point, would allow her to act as our shield at many points. Value of this should be self-evident already, so I won't waste your time here - yet there are many situations where ability to cancel effects will be of use. Dungeoneering, removing curses and opening seals are but some of uses Gisena could provide outside of "fuck magic".
She has some additional synergy as well - for example, she could reduce our Curse of Indenture so we can bring more people along and then use her social to get us to talk with possible allies for Retinue, making that build that much better. Having access to her magic should do wonders for our Seals, too.
To begin with, we should all be aware that we suck dick at social. We look like a freak, we are mentally fucked up beyond belief and we have Curses that make our social even harder. If we want to go in a town, we will likely have to skirt around like a hobo or fight people. Gisena though? She aces that shit. She walks in a town, she can buy and sell everything, get all the freshest info, get is in touch with quest relevant people, talk with authority for us and so on. Remember how we have Geas of Indenture which means that we need to conquer something or kill high profile target? Gisena can help us talk with other people about that. Amazing concept.
On top of this, she scales. She can get more points in her social stuff, and at pretty scary rate given that she is 1/4 Progression. She can get cool Charisma Perks and scale in a way that is completely different that what we do. She can offer us completely different vectors of approach to a problem which would usually be completely impossible for us. And, above everything, she is walking QoL feature that takes care of social stuff so we don't need to invest into it ourselves.
Of course, while her ability to socialize is truly impressive, it's secondary to her actual purpose. You will notice that she is part of specific vote choice - Seals/Sword/Gisena/Retinue. Reason for this is that all those options directly reduce our Curses in various ways, in hope that we will reduce impact Apocryphal would have on our crucial early game. But there is more - Gisena not only Curse diminishment, but one that scales. Forever. As quazi-Progression type she could scale at sealing Curses for millions of years. Remember how in previous quests we were offered choices between reducing Curses and power? With Gisena, we can just take power every time. In time, we could even add Cursebearers to our team simply because we have powerful ability to diminish their Curses on our side. Imagine, for a moment, combat Cursebearer who gets 25% of Progression and his Curses diminished, fighting by our side.
Truly marvelous. And yet, Gisena has uses beyond these - her ability to cancel magic, now, and virtually every esoteric, at some point, would allow her to act as our shield at many points. Value of this should be self-evident already, so I won't waste your time here - yet there are many situations where ability to cancel effects will be of use. Dungeoneering, removing curses and opening seals are but some of uses Gisena could provide outside of "fuck magic".
She has some additional synergy as well - for example, she could reduce our Curse of Indenture so we can bring more people along and then use her social to get us to talk with possible allies for Retinue, making that build that much better. Having access to her magic should do wonders for our Seals, too.
I suspect the biggest difference here, is that in EFB the Fates are discrete entities with theoretically pre-defined capabilities, while Retinue we're sharing our own potency with our followers.
To be fair, that is a solid foundation for mildly superhuman persuasion rolls in Exalted. Not exactly Solar grade, but impossibly pretty isn't worthless.
Rapidly upgrading to !!FUN!! times, I'm sure.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I think this part at least is debatable. Seram couldn't get any social enhancements except intimidation ones. I forget the particulars of the rules there.
Edit: Found what I was thinking of A Simple Transaction Original
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Seram had two hidden stats, which were assumed to be Magic and Charisma. Anyway, her own Coalescence buffs her social, so it's somewhat likely that that she will scale on that front. Will she get to Imperia level? Dunno, but having someone like that so we can worship their feet is something everyone should see value in.
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Rihaku
The Internet
Hm... I'm surprised that Accretion continues to lag fairly heavily in vote count. Ah, its leading plan doesn't take any waifus.
That explains it.
As a wise man once said, the fish can fight the river or follow it. But the river cannot turn away from the waterfall.
Come on guys, Accretion actually has the higher synergy with Gisena of the two magic systems, especially into the mid and late game! Even if it's not popular, an Accretion + Gisena build would have very strong growth even without Retinue! And with King's Scepter, Seven Seals has higher synergy with Catherine!
That explains it.
As a wise man once said, the fish can fight the river or follow it. But the river cannot turn away from the waterfall.
Come on guys, Accretion actually has the higher synergy with Gisena of the two magic systems, especially into the mid and late game! Even if it's not popular, an Accretion + Gisena build would have very strong growth even without Retinue! And with King's Scepter, Seven Seals has higher synergy with Catherine!
I mean, you did went on how scary the Curses are so we naturally reacted in a way that would reduce them the most.
Rihaku
The Internet
I don't know which plan this is referring to!
One that takes every single option that an reduce our Curses! Seals, Blade(to buff Seals), Gisena and Retinue(to buff Gisena).
That being said, I really find Accretion super cool and having us being ultimate sword while Gisena is ultimate shield sounds pretty cool.
[X] The King's Scepter
[X] Accretion
[X] Forebear's Blade
[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
[X] Retinue
[X] The King's Scepter
[X] Seven Seals
[X] Forebear's Blade
[X] Retinue
[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
I picked seals because seals are cool. The idea behind Retinue is that some day he'll call his wife back and put her in it, butthat will never happen only when he's strong enough. Blade picked for power, Gisena to help ensure he doesn't entirely devour this realty with his curse, and scepter picked for staying alive.
[X] Seven Seals
[X] Forebear's Blade
[X] Retinue
[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
I picked seals because seals are cool. The idea behind Retinue is that some day he'll call his wife back and put her in it, but
The real difference is that Retinue is backed by the Accursed, whereas in EFB the powers were offered by the Fates. We ended up outscaling the Fates, but if we somehow outscale the Accursed's ability to power up our retinue we probably don't need them anyway.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Too much growth on our part makes decimators affliction reach solar system and beyond scale.
Attaining ludicrous tier BS for high end mitigation will itself potentially necessitate enlarging our radius. Ethically speaking the most optimal route for mitigating it in terms of harm reduction is to empower others to do it for us. Which is part of why I like Gisena+Retinue.
The question though is at what point will returns from her ability growth plateau compared to using Hunger to enhance our development in the field of sealing?
*Pondering noises*
Attaining ludicrous tier BS for high end mitigation will itself potentially necessitate enlarging our radius. Ethically speaking the most optimal route for mitigating it in terms of harm reduction is to empower others to do it for us. Which is part of why I like Gisena+Retinue.
The question though is at what point will returns from her ability growth plateau compared to using Hunger to enhance our development in the field of sealing?
*Pondering noises*
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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The ability of our companion to stay relevant will depend entirely on themselves. If they have the motivation, they might keep up. Accursed wouldn't give the slightest fuck either way.
I very much doubt they will be nearwhere close to us power-wise, more likely they will dig out some niche for themselves.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Looks like Catherine may have an advantage there, not sure. Basis(Willpower, Mech piloting ability is dependent on the Mech for power the pilot directs it, meaning her relevance is somewhat independent of her personal power)
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[X] Plan Guess she can tag along
-[X] The King's Scepter
-[X] Accretion
-[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
-[X] Forebear's Blade
-[X] Hunger
Since Gisena has good scaling even without retinue (I guess because Accretion is a complimentary sort of style to her examplar growth deal) she becomes a more appealing option to me, as she's already very strong early.
-[X] The King's Scepter
-[X] Accretion
-[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
-[X] Forebear's Blade
-[X] Hunger
Since Gisena has good scaling even without retinue (I guess because Accretion is a complimentary sort of style to her examplar growth deal) she becomes a more appealing option to me, as she's already very strong early.